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Posted By: daoc2009 Rach Prelude op 32 no 12 - 03/27/14 06:22 AM
Hi,

Want to learn this next, for a longer term project.

What are the main difficulties with it And what's the best way to get started with it?

I can reach the wide left hand spread chords in it, feel pretty comfortable and it 'feels' quite well under the hands, so far. Only started it the other day though and don't get Too much time to practice. Only can do some of it hands separately at minute.
Posted By: wouter79 Re: Rach Prelude op 32 no 12 - 03/27/14 10:38 AM
Here I discuss my attempt at it

rach recital 30

From top of my head, the middle part (a tempo, pp poco a poco cresc) is most difficult.
Posted By: gooddog Re: Rach Prelude op 32 no 12 - 03/27/14 01:50 PM
I don't have the score in front of me, but I had trouble getting the descending left hand leaps, (on page 2 in my edition), accurately and in tempo. On my page 3, where the right hand is rocking took some practice. The last page had some polyrhythms that took some work. That's all I can think of right now.
Posted By: BruceD Re: Rach Prelude op 32 no 12 - 03/27/14 05:24 PM
What made this Prelude a challenge for me was the slight changes in right-hand notation in measures 24 through 28 - where Deborah describes the right hand as "rocking."

In measure 24, for example, the right hand alternates, in the first group of sixteenth-notes a two-note chord with a single note that changes; the second note is a D-sharp, the fourth note is an A-sharp. In the next measure, the right-hand sixteenth-note grouping is a three-note chord alternating with a C-sharp (no change on notes 2 and 4). Similarly, in measures 26, 27 and 28, the first sixteenth-note group in the right hand is a three-note chord alternating with a single note. But the next chords in each of these measures is a two-note chord that alternates with a changing single note.

Getting this exact at tempo was a real challenge.

Keeping the wrist relaxed while playing the opening figure, particularly when it is played fortissimo later in the Prelude is the key to getting through those sections.

Regards,
Posted By: Brad Hoehne Re: Rach Prelude op 32 no 12 - 03/27/14 05:59 PM
I just started this one as well a few months back. The toughest part for me is the middle section beginning with the PP "a tempo" marking and continues "poco a poco cresc.". I've had to learn to play the little right hand four note figures with lightest little flick of the wrist. For me, most of the the crescendo is in the left hand.

There's also a roll that ends on the D# in the second measure of the meno mosso section that is a beast for me. Doing both the 10th in the left hand and this 10th in the right hand at the same time is quite a challenge. My solution was to play the E in the bass with the second E in the group. I still have to "borrow time" to play it correctly.

I've experimented with fingering the right hand roll two different ways- 1-2-4-5 and 1-2-5-4. Both have their plusses and minuses. The 1245 is easy to play, but leads to stress on the hand which counteracts the shimmery touch of the middle notes. The 1-2-5-4 is trickier, and I miss the D# outright every once in a while, but the flow of the piece seems preserved.

One of the saving graces of this piece, from a learner's perspective, is that it's fairly short and not too difficult to memorize.

I'm satisfied with a performance that is slower than most of the recordings I've seen.

This performance by Horowitz is what made me want to learn this piece:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Uolrw_1XKU

Posted By: gooddog Re: Rach Prelude op 32 no 12 - 03/27/14 10:15 PM
Originally Posted by BruceD
What made this Prelude a challenge for me was the slight changes in right-hand notation in measures 24 through 28 - where Deborah describes the right hand as "rocking."

In measure 24, for example, the right hand alternates, in the first group of sixteenth-notes a two-note chord with a single note that changes; the second note is a D-sharp, the fourth note is an A-sharp. In the next measure, the right-hand sixteenth-note grouping is a three-note chord alternating with a C-sharp (no change on notes 2 and 4). Similarly, in measures 26, 27 and 28, the first sixteenth-note group in the right hand is a three-note chord alternating with a single note. But the next chords in each of these measures is a two-note chord that alternates with a changing single note.

Getting this exact at tempo was a real challenge.

Keeping the wrist relaxed while playing the opening figure, particularly when it is played fortissimo later in the Prelude is the key to getting through those sections.

Regards,
I'm still at work but I printed off a copy from IMSLP.

For measures 24 - 30 what worked for me was to restrict the motion mostly to my thumb and wrist. My outer right hand fingers stay pretty much in the same place, not rigid but almost.

The left hand leaps I mentioned having trouble with above are at the end of measures 16, 17, 18, and 19.

Originally Posted by Brad Hoehne
There's also a roll that ends on the D# in the second measure of the meno mosso section that is a beast for me. Doing both the 10th in the left hand and this 10th in the right hand at the same time is quite a challenge.


Are you talking about measure 37? I'm not at the piano right now but I'm pretty sure I cross my left over my right to play the D#. Same for measure 43. It's quite easy that way.
Posted By: Brad Hoehne Re: Rach Prelude op 32 no 12 - 03/28/14 01:07 AM
Originally Posted by gooddog

Originally Posted by Brad Hoehne
There's also a roll that ends on the D# in the second measure of the meno mosso section that is a beast for me. Doing both the 10th in the left hand and this 10th in the right hand at the same time is quite a challenge.


Are you talking about measure 37? I'm not at the piano right now but I'm pretty sure I cross my left over my right to play the D#. Same for measure 43. It's quite easy that way.


Yes, measure 37. The trouble for me is not so much in playing the roll (I have pretty big hands), but in relaxing after the stretch. The roll in Measure 43 is easier because I can use the rit to reposition my hands.

Gooddog's advice about thumb and wrist for measures 24- 30 seems great to me. I'll work on that.
Posted By: hreichgott Re: Rach Prelude op 32 no 12 - 03/28/14 01:09 AM
I love this one smile Have learned and then refurbished it several times over the years.
I understand it is one of the less difficult Rach. preludes (have only played a couple.)

The hardest thing for me has always been returning to the right sort of quiet after each of the big waves of sound/energy is over.

Technically the most difficult measures for me were 16-19. There are a lot of chord changes and large leaps, and it really has to stay in tempo.

There's also a temptation to really go down the rabbit hole and spend lots of time and energy on voicing... there are some lovely obviously polyphonic spots and then the more you look, the more potential multiple voices you see. At some point I just had to stop myself from overthinking the thing.
Posted By: daoc2009 Re: Rach Prelude op 32 no 12 - 03/28/14 07:40 AM
Thanks for all the advice everyone, going to need a lot of work on this one I think!

See how I do...

Thanks all.
Posted By: wr Re: Rach Prelude op 32 no 12 - 03/28/14 01:32 PM
For me -

It's hard to make the tempo fluctuations in the first two pages work.

It's easy to get sloppy with the pedal.

I'm never happy with the last five measures - I usually can't get the soft but crystalline sound I want, nor can I control the "vanishing" effect very well that high in the keyboard. It's like the technical stuff in those measures are from a whole different piece than everything that comes before, and the gear switch is hard for me.
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