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Posted By: Civitas Chopin Nocturne Op 9 No 1 Fingering - 01/18/14 02:14 AM
I'm having a terribly frustrating time with the fingering for the 20 note run in measure 74 (specifically, the four notes in the little "jog" where it goes - F - Gflat - Enat - F -). I've practiced it over and over and cannot find a good way to play it. I keep stumbling over my fingers using the suggested 1-4-2-3. I'd be grateful if someone could (mercifully) provide some advice that works for you.

Regards,

Mark
Posted By: frenchflip Re: Chopin Nocturne Op 9 No 1 Fingering - 01/18/14 03:14 AM
Have you tried 1-3-2-1?
Posted By: phantomFive Re: Chopin Nocturne Op 9 No 1 Fingering - 01/18/14 03:23 AM
The fingering seems fine. (Next time can you post a screenshot? It's a pain counting 70 measures).


[Linked Image]

Pay attention to your wrist movement, it will make that line flow more easily. Specifically on that "jog", as soon as you play the F with your thumb, move your wrist into position so the fourth finger is right over the g-flat.

You might even consider moving your wrist into position slightly before playing the G with your thumb.
Posted By: hreichgott Re: Chopin Nocturne Op 9 No 1 Fingering - 01/18/14 03:24 AM
If you think of the scale in groups that go 54321, 4321, 4321, 4321, that F is the 1 at the end of the last group. Then the G flat is the start of a new group, Gb-E-F-B, which also finishes with a 1. That might help make some more sense out of the fingering you've been trying.

As for alternatives, I guess you could put 1 on the second F as frenchflip suggests but then good luck getting to the B. Maybe a 1 on the E natural, another 1 on the B, and then you'd have more choices as to the Gb and F?
Posted By: frenchflip Re: Chopin Nocturne Op 9 No 1 Fingering - 01/18/14 03:35 AM
Sorry--my suggestion was for the F-Gb-E-F before the 8va. I also use the 1-4-2-3 for the F-Gb-E-F in the middle of the -20- as is suggested by the editor. My bad--cheers.
Posted By: Civitas Re: Chopin Nocturne Op 9 No 1 Fingering - 01/18/14 04:58 PM
Thanks frenchclip. I had an image of the notes ready to post, but it wouldn't attach. phantomFive, I appreciate you taking the time to count all those measures! I've tried the wrist positioning, but it's just the way my hand is put together, that fingering doesn't seem to work for me. hreichgott, funny my instructor and I didn't even think about placing the thumb on E nat. but it looks promising. I've got this beautiful piece down pat and this is the final hurdle.
Posted By: Vktmzkf932 Re: Chopin Nocturne Op 9 No 1 Fingering - 01/18/14 05:28 PM
Alternative to the written fingering:
(starting from the B-flat of the 20 note group)
4-3-2-1-4-3-2-1-3-1-3-2-3-1-4-1-2-5-4-3.
or
4-3-2-1-4-3-2-1-3-1-3-2-3-2-3-1-2-5-4-3.

(depending on what comes next, which I cannot recall right now, last three notes could of course be 4-3-2 too)

I'd really rather recommend the published fingering though.
Posted By: phantomFive Re: Chopin Nocturne Op 9 No 1 Fingering - 01/19/14 07:45 AM
Originally Posted by Civitas
I've tried the wrist positioning, but it's just the way my hand is put together, that fingering doesn't seem to work for me.

Your hand looks like a ninja turtle hand?
Posted By: Derulux Re: Chopin Nocturne Op 9 No 1 Fingering - 01/20/14 06:49 PM
Originally Posted by Civitas
I'm having a terribly frustrating time with the fingering for the 20 note run in measure 74 (specifically, the four notes in the little "jog" where it goes - F - Gflat - Enat - F -). I've practiced it over and over and cannot find a good way to play it. I keep stumbling over my fingers using the suggested 1-4-2-3. I'd be grateful if someone could (mercifully) provide some advice that works for you.

Regards,

Mark

What about the little "jog" gives you trouble? This is a very prominent technique in Mozart (and I'm sure, others; just happens to be where I encounter it most often). Which finger would you say "screws up" the most?
Posted By: ChopinAddict Re: Chopin Nocturne Op 9 No 1 Fingering - 01/20/14 09:35 PM
I have no problems with 1-4-2-3, but not all hands are the same. What exactly do you think is the problem for you with that fingering?
Posted By: Civitas Re: Chopin Nocturne Op 9 No 1 Fingering - 01/23/14 02:38 PM
Playing the 1-4 is okay, it's the transitioning from the 4 to the 2 and then the 3 that messes me up. This makes the jump to the B nat. with the thumb tricky.
Posted By: Civitas Re: Chopin Nocturne Op 9 No 1 Fingering - 01/23/14 02:41 PM
A ninja turtle phantomFive? I'm not sure what that is supposed to look like. I've wanted to karate chop the piano though!
Posted By: phantomFive Re: Chopin Nocturne Op 9 No 1 Fingering - 01/24/14 04:15 AM
Originally Posted by Civitas
A ninja turtle phantomFive? I'm not sure what that is supposed to look like. I've wanted to karate chop the piano though!

Ninja turtles only have two fingers and a thumb.

Seriously, you should be able to get this. When you play that part, your thumb will likely end up underneath your hand. It's a weird position, but you'll get used to it.

To get used to it: play the F with your thumb, then slowly, without moving your thumb, play the G-flat with your fourth finger. Then slowly play the F with your thumb again, back and fourth until it feels like a natural hand position.

Once you are used to it, try playing it in with the rest of the line.
Posted By: phantomFive Re: Chopin Nocturne Op 9 No 1 Fingering - 01/24/14 04:16 AM
btw if you can't touch the tip of your fourth finger and the tip of your thumb together, you should do some stretches before playing this to increase your flexibility.
Posted By: phantomFive Re: Chopin Nocturne Op 9 No 1 Fingering - 01/24/14 06:08 AM
Originally Posted by Civitas
Playing the 1-4 is okay, it's the transitioning from the 4 to the 2 and then the 3 that messes me up. This makes the jump to the B nat. with the thumb tricky.

While you are playing the 2 and the 3, simultaneously move your thumb to the B nat so it's there when it's time.
Posted By: ChopinAddict Re: Chopin Nocturne Op 9 No 1 Fingering - 01/26/14 11:38 PM
I don't know... Maybe you can practice that fingering again and again also when you are not at the piano (for example at the bus stop, tapping on the desk etc.)
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