I have a deep passion for the piano, and I think I'd be happy to dedicate my life to it, and become a concert pianist (I'm 15), but my parents say there is no way they will pay my way through music school. They are fine with music as a hobby, but not as a profession. My father wants me to be a neurosurgeon like him, and refuses to listen to me, when I tell him that I prefer music over medicine. He fears that I won't make nearly as much money as a concert pianist. I know this might be a bit personal, but for all of you professional pianists, how much do you make annually? I want to prove him wrong. Even if a pianist doesn't make quite as much as a doctor, I want to prove that a pianist can at least financially support themselves (which he does not believe to be so).
You are young and only a few years from graduating from high school. You will grow up fast in those years. You need to. There are a lot of ways to get through college without your parents paying for it. How do you think most people get through school? Start planning now. If you do not follow your own instinct (gut feeling) and just let your dad direct your life you will not like the result. Good luck with it and keep us posted.
Well, this is exactly what happened with Berlioz: went to study medicine against his wishes, and the rest is history.
Also, Schumann gave up being a lawyer to become a musician. Obviously only a few people in a million will have the kind of success (and gift) that they had, but you shouldn't pursue a vocation you hate just to be pragmatic either.
Although as an engineer I'm very employable, I really wish I had pursued the arts (I had talent as a painter when I was young) instead. Sure, I wouldn't make the kind of money I make now, but I also wouldn't be sitting in a prison cell going blind staring at a computer monitor and clicking a mouse for a living.
I was in very close to exactly the same situation as you, except (fortunately maybe)
I wasn't quite good enough to
really seriously consider piano as a career and deep down I knew it. Do you know if you are, or if you might be? Some clues: Anyone who has a chance for it has already been an
extreme standout as a pianist by your age, and is already playing at pretty close to a professional level. Sure, that's an oversimplification to some extent -- but not much.
About the idea that you probably wouldn't make "as much" money being a concert pianist: That's the least of it. The problem is that it's very rare to be able to make money
at all as a concert pianist.
As you'll see if you spend much time on this site, there are many of us who didn't become concert pianists but who have kept it up seriously, along with our work, even to the point of giving concerts occasionally, and even to the point of being taken seriously enough to get reviewed in the media sometimes.
BTW notice that I didn't use that word, "hobby." My parents used it too, and I couldn't stand it -- and I'd guess you can't either, because it seems to belittle what we're doing. It makes it sound like a "dabbling" kind of thing rather than something serious. But that's not going to stop people from saying it.
Good luck with it all -- and whatever you do, realize that it's very possible to pursue music and performing pretty seriously without it being your career.
....Although as an engineer I'm very employable, I really wish I had pursued the arts (I had talent as a painter when I was young) instead. Sure, I wouldn't make the kind of money I make now, but I also wouldn't be sitting in a prison cell going blind staring at a computer monitor and clicking a mouse for a living.
See above.
I think you're better off having done what you did. If anything, IMO the better choice wouldn't have been to pursue the arts as a career but to have come up with something else that suits you better than what you're doing for a living -- and maybe you still can??
How about a path like the following?
Ju-Ying Song (a piano faculty member at the New School)
DMA, MM, The Juilliard School; BA in Music and BS in Microbiology and Immunology, Stanford University. Principal teachers: Jerome Lowenthal, Jean-François Antonioli, and Alexei Golovine.
I think your father will be more than happy to pay for the tuition at an Ivy League. The graduate music education at Yale is free.
Sorry, dude. I'm with your parents.
Get your MD and you can still be a concert-level performer, but you will have to do your practicing in addition to all that studying.
You can still make recordings. Play for money or for free. Plenty of MDs do.
If you're a doctor you can buy a $100K+ Bösendorfer or whatnot unlike the rest of us normal-salaried types.
You can do music as an undergrad major, but you will have to take all that hard science as well. It's doable and safer than strictly music.
P.S. I hope you won't exactly become a neurosurgeon unless that's something you're really into. I wouldn't want to have my brain operated on by someone who was feeling pissed off about not playing the piano.
At age fifteen I find it unfortunate that you are even thinking of careers. Hopefully your life will take many interesting twists and meanders over the 5-10 years before a career path emerges. OTH, it doesn't sound like your parents are broadly educated people themselves, which is equally unfortunate.
There are many arenas of music that would support you, but being a classical pianist is probably not one of them, unless your bag is teaching.
Neurosurgeons and musicians both have value. Do you know yourself well enough to know who you are at your core?
Chances are, you will not prove your dad wrong from a financial perspective. That's not the real issue, though, is it?
My advice: since there are no guarantees about security in life, anyway, keep track of your passion. Honest money can be made in a number of ways through honest work that would allow you to pursue your dreams.
Father/Son relationships can be so complicated. He probably wants what is best for you, but sometimes dads like to have bragging rights through their sons, too. Part of becoming a man is learning how to stand your ground.
That's my two cents.
Of course, there are ways to make a decent living as a musician, but what puts up a red flag in your post is your use of the term "concert pianist". This gives the impression that you think making a living by performing solo recitals and concertos on a regular basis is feasible. Not only is it not feasible, it's virtually impossible. (Regardless of how well you play). 99.9% of professional pianists, (who have won competitions, graduated from conservatories), make their living by teaching, accompaniment work, administration, etc. Those are their primary activities. Any concerts that they do play (be it a few times a year, or a few times a month), they do for free or for small honorariums.
If you can see yourself happily doing those things (teaching, accompanying, administration....or other things that don't directly involved you in the spotlight) and doing them very very well, then by all means do music. If not, you're probably better of going into medicine.
At age fifteen I find it unfortunate that you are even thinking of careers.....
Peter, I think you're way off on this one. Unless you don't mean it how it came out.
It's very valuable and (I think) pretty important for kids to be thinking of careers by then -- not necessarily to have a single focus, especially since (as you said) their lives and interests will probably take some turns and who knows where it all might come out. But not to be thinking about possibilities and taking them into account in how they do what they're doing, I really think you're way off.
Go to med school, but don't become a neurosurgeon. Tell your dad you want to be a radiologist. Then ask him how many times he's been sued.
Go to med school, but don't become a neurosurgeon. Tell your dad you want to be a radiologist....
.....or a lawyer.
See above.
I think you're better off having done what you did. If anything, IMO the better choice wouldn't have been to pursue the arts as a career but to have come up with something else that suits you better than what you're doing for a living -- and maybe you still can??
Thanks! You are actually right (or so I hope) that I can still do something more suitable. I think my best option is to teach at a university. Failing that, I could just scrap my former life and learn piano tech. Or maybe even teach piano, but I'm sure there are far more people more qualified that are trying to do the same thing (my only qualifications are RCM grade 9 which I did more than 15 years ago).
So I suppose to a 15 year old deciding what to do, the best advice is to keep playing while pursuing a well-rounded education. That should give you some options upon graduation.
I worked witha guy who had a degree as an english major..and ended up as a computer programmer, and another who was boss for awhile as a social worker..ended up as computer
graphics page layout artist..he response was..they didn't care what my degree said, only that I had one! LOL!
....You are actually right (or so I hope) that I can still do something more suitable. I think my best option is to teach at a university. Failing that, I could just scrap my former life and learn piano tech. Or maybe even teach piano....
I hope RachManiac will pardon the digression....Those all sound like good ideas, but also: Aren't there lots of options within engineering? I would have thought the range of possible kinds of work in it were so broad that almost anyone in the field could find something that suited them pretty well. I know that's sort of simplistic, but I would have thought it's also basically true.
Mark C, I'm glad you disagree with me - since that keeps a discussion board interesting - but yes, I meant exactly what I said. RachManiac at 15yo in New Jersey is offering us a career choice for him between piano concertizing and surgery, and wants to do the former if it pays enough, to spite his father.
I think he should be reading ancient Greek literature. Or out tossing a frisbee.
....I think he should be reading ancient Greek literature. Or out tossing a frisbee.
I'm with you on that. Of course as long as you mean it's also OK to be reading baseball articles instead of Greek literature and throwing parties instead of frisbees.
....wants to do [piano] if it pays enough, to spite his father.
I didn't quite see it that way.
I have a friend who got his Bachelors Degree in Music (sax performance) and is now an Emergency Physician, so you do not have to make a commitment either way for quite some time.
I'm a jazz pianist and have made my living for the last 40 years from playing. I have never seen the music business as bad as it is now. The number of jobs have dwindled down to almost nothing.
The classical types I know all teach to make a living and they don't make much at that. The arts are always being cut and that's a topic of discussion over here.
I can work much more if I play for free ... but then, what's the point.
If you can make a living performing, more power to you.
P.S. I hope you won't exactly become a neurosurgeon unless that's something you're really into. I wouldn't want to have my brain operated on by someone who was feeling pissed off about not playing the piano.
Especially if they knew you were a pianist!
--
Jack
Let's not worry about neurosurgeon or concert career, before we first ask what are you playing these days? Answer that question and I'll give you an answer you can take to the bank.
Well, this is an age old question , isn't it?
Do what you love, and risk not making sufficient income to live off of (whatever that is....) OR do what you do NOT love and earn enough to make a comfortable living. And when you reach middle age, wonder if you did the right thing.
At 15, time is on your side. I'm with the "go throw a frisbee" camp.
(ps. your dad means well !)
I should add....of course, there ARE some lucky souls that get to do what they love AND earn a decent living!
Let's not worry about neurosurgeon or concert career, before we first ask what are you playing these days? Answer that question and I'll give you an answer you can take to the bank.
Looking at some of the OP's other posts, might give you the information you need. And BE KIND.
Going back to Mark's first post here regarding a career as a concert pianist .......
Anyone who has a chance for it has already been an extreme standout as a pianist by your age, and is already playing at pretty close to a professional level. Sure, that's an oversimplification to some extent -- but not much.
It's not an oversimplification....it's reality.
Since the thread title talks about "finances," consider the "other reality" that has not yet been addressed here : the cost of trying to make a living off concertizing even if one obtains the status of "concert pianist" :
- agent's percentage (if you're good enough to have an agent)
- difficulty and frustration at trying to find performance venues (if you don't have an agent)
- cost of renting performance venues
- cost of printing programs
- cost of piano tunings at performance venues
- cost of travel
- cost of accommodation
- cost of meals away from home
- cost of individual health insurance
- (physical) cost of being constantly on tour
- (emotional) cost of disruption of family life
Consider all of these and more that don't come immediately to mind, and you'll realize that you would have to rake in quite a phenomenal annual income if you're going to live a reasonable life style and are going to be able to put some money in the bank, all from being a "concert pianist." Few concert pianists - except those acclaimed as international stars - can claim enough income to live comfortably - or even modestly - solely off their concertizing.
Regards,
Let's not worry about neurosurgeon or concert career, before we first ask what are you playing these days? Answer that question and I'll give you an answer you can take to the bank.
Why do you eat, sleep and breathe? Because you need to live, music is just an important part of life.
You can go to music school and still go to medical school you know. You're dad is right. It is financially on the lower end for musicians. Of course, I find that many musicians can make a very comfortable living (typically giving lessons)but this is no where how much a doctor would make. Also, we have no idea what your current level of talent is and what exactly your opportunities are. Just remember, whatever decision you make, it's not permanent. If you go to music school, this doesn't mean you can't be a multitude of other tings. If you go to med school, this doesn't mean you can't be a pianist. Life is open and forgiving. So do what you think will be the best for you. This is a highly personal decision and some people on an online forum can't make it for you
Do your best and make the best of your teen years!
Do what you want, not what your parents want.
If they won't pay for music college, work your ass off and pay for it yourself.
I wouldn't want my neuro surgeon to not really be into neurosurgery. Oprah said something like do what you love and the rest will follow. You can be happy on far less than what your father makes annually. Life isn't about having stuff and life is far too short to spend a lot of time feeling unhappy.
Let's not worry about neurosurgeon or concert career, before we first ask what are you playing these days? Answer that question and I'll give you an answer you can take to the bank.
This approach to the OP's question is not helpful, IMO. He asked how his future income as a "concert pianist" might compare to a neurosurgeon's. As you know, he is not going to earn neurosugeon money, or even a third of it, playing concerts. Even if he's playing Gaspard and Petroushka at age 15, that kind of success is so unlikely, and so difficult to sustain, that it should be considered impossible when asking such questions.
On the other hand, it's not all that difficult to earn a decent but modest living in classical music, as teacher/accompanist/etc, if that's what he really wants to do. Again, his ability to achieve this won't much depend on how advanced his playing is at 15.
Let's not worry about neurosurgeon or concert career, before we first ask what are you playing these days? Answer that question and I'll give you an answer you can take to the bank.
This approach to the OP's question is not helpful, IMO. He asked how his future income as a "concert pianist" might compare to a neurosurgeon's. As you know, he is not going to earn neurosugeon money, or even a third of it, playing concerts. Even if he's playing Gaspard and Petroushka at age 15, that kind of success is so unlikely, and so difficult to sustain, that it should be considered impossible when asking such questions.
On the other hand, it's not all that difficult to earn a decent but modest living in classical music, as teacher/accompanist/etc, if that's what he really wants to do. Again, his ability to achieve this won't much depend on how advanced his playing is at 15.
I think what Stores' intent is to eliminate one of the possibilities. If at 15, he is not advance enough in his piano field, he can forget about being a concert pianist. I think Store's question is reasonable.
By the way, here's the real problem.
100% of Neurosurgeons have a 6-figure income
I know pianists who make $15,000/year and pianists who make $90,000/year.
If you make it through med school and a neurosurgery residency, you WILL find a job.
If you make it through a doctorate in piano performance, you MIGHT have a job, maybe.
Ideally....you try to find the balance between what you would enjoy and/or find interesting AND what would enable you to earn a "decent" living.
Not so easy these days, but that's what I'll tell my son to aim for.
Would you rather be digging around with fancy tools in someone's head for the rest of your life or digging around inside yourself to reach ever greater heights of expressivity? Does a Mercedes fulfill you more than a beater Volvo?
Let's not worry about neurosurgeon or concert career, before we first ask what are you playing these days? Answer that question and I'll give you an answer you can take to the bank.
To which I will add, how are your grades**? What sort of GPA do you think you will have in college, and will you be near the top of your class in med school. Neurosurgery training is highly competitive.
We do not mean to discourage you. You may be a very bright young man, so be sure not to sell yourself short just to oppose your parents. You should adopt a positive attitude on planning a well blanced future that matches your interests(not only the music-related ones), your needs and your abilities as well as possible. Keep in mind that all those parameters may change as you mature and know yourself better.
**
Am I sounding as cruel as Master Stores?
Would you rather be digging around with fancy tools in someone's head for the rest of your life or digging around inside yourself to reach ever greater heights of expressivity? Does a Mercedes fulfill you more than a beater Volvo?
Which is which in this analogy?
BTW anyway I'd take the Volvo.
(I know what you meant.)
**Am I sounding as cruel as Master Stores?
I think you're both on target.
Except I'm not with the idea that he's thinking about this just to oppose his parents. (Hey, is everybody a shrink?)
**Am I sounding as cruel as Master Stores?
I think you're both on target.
Except I'm not with the idea that he's thinking about this just to oppose his parents. (Hey, is everybody a shrink?)
No but some of us have been there, done that (parents and piano-wise)
Perhaps a compromise. The Peabody Conservatory of Music has a top piano program. It is part of Johns Hopkins which has a top Medical school ( I suspect your father will find Johns Hopkins sufficient ).
One of my studio mates double majored in piano at Peabody and in pre-med at Hopkins. He was quite talented and won the Kosciusko Chopin competition when he was 17. I kind of lost track of him after undergrad, but I think he went on to medical school and is now an M.D.
Now, he really was exceptional, and there is no doubt that his double major made things a lot harder on him, especially as a pianist, but it is doable.
Anyways, something to consider.
He fears that I won't make nearly as much money as a concert pianist. I know this might be a bit personal, but for all of you professional pianists, how much do you make annually? I want to prove him wrong. Even if a pianist doesn't make quite as much as a doctor, I want to prove that a pianist can at least financially support themselves (which he does not believe to be so).
Back to the original question......in order to "prove him wrong",
you'd have to get some statistics on % piano majors (?) that find employment and then, the average salaries- and compare that with similar statistics on neurosurgeons . And the data would have to come from a reputable source that the neurosurgeon would believe.
Let us know what you discover!
Perhaps a compromise. The Peabody Conservatory of Music has a top piano program. It is part of Johns Hopkins which has a top Medical school....
But I would think the musical standards even for that are way above most people -- I imagine not far below what we're talking about for "concert pianist," if at all. Like, I was a not-bad pianist at the point that I might have been in line for that -- and I'd bet I wasn't anywhere close to good enough.
P.S. I think many of you are talking the "to prove him wrong" thing way too literally and way too extremely. It's an expression.
[...]P.S. I think many of you are talking the "to prove him wrong" thing way too literally and way too extremely. It's an expression.
...Not when you're 15 and in the middle of an argument with your dad! Then it's gloves off literal, buddy.
And since I'm popping in with the comment, I'll say again to the OP, "It can't be about the money. It has to be about the love of the art." Life is messy. Be yourself.
[...]P.S. I think many of you are talking the "to prove him wrong" thing way too literally and way too extremely. It's an expression.
...Not when you're 15 and in the middle of an argument with your dad! Then it's gloves off literal, buddy.
Not necessarily that simple, and in this case I don't think it is.
IMO the "to prove him wrong" is sort of an exclamation mark on it, and can put a layer of stubbornness on it. But I think it's a mistake to assume (glibly, IMO) that that's all it is, or even mainly what it is. It's also the honest-to-goodness wish and dream of being a concert pianist.
[...]P.S. I think many of you are talking the "to prove him wrong" thing way too literally and way too extremely. It's an expression.
...Not when you're 15 and in the middle of an argument with your dad! Then it's gloves off literal, buddy.
Not necessarily that simple, and in this case I don't think it is.
IMO the "to prove him wrong" is sort of an exclamation mark on it, and can put a layer of stubbornness on it. But I think it's a mistake to assume (glibly, IMO) that that's all it is, or even mainly what it is. It's also the honest-to-goodness wish and dream of being a concert pianist.
Believe it or not, Mark, I totally agree with you! "Gloves off literal" was my exclamation point.
Do you agree with me that life is messy?
[...]P.S. I think many of you are talking the "to prove him wrong" thing way too literally and way too extremely. It's an expression.
...Not when you're 15 and in the middle of an argument with your dad! Then it's gloves off literal, buddy.
Not necessarily that simple, and in this case I don't think it is.
IMO the "to prove him wrong" is sort of an exclamation mark on it, and can put a layer of stubbornness on it. But I think it's a mistake to assume (glibly, IMO) that that's all it is, or even mainly what it is. It's also the honest-to-goodness wish and dream of being a concert pianist.
So you sat down with the kid and got a history, or you are deducing (or is it inferring), ad lib?
....So you sat down with the kid and got a history, or you are deducing (or is it inferring), ad lib?
LOL.
We're all guessing.
Which is the main thing I'm really saying about what some of you are assuming. You know about "assume," right?
Do you agree with me that life is messy?
I'd say that's a pretty tidy statement.
Do you agree with me that life is messy?
Messy and unpredictable. Full of choices and pitfalls.
By the way, I think this has been mentioned, but all you need to get into Med School is a good MCAT score and a bachelors degree.
When I was teaching at a university, we had two or three music majors go on to med school, all very successfully. Being an undergraduate music major opens more doors than people realize. I've had former students do everything from teach English in Japan and Korea while they travel the world to flying fighter jets for the US Air Force.
That being said, neurosurgery is one of the more competitive specialties, so you'd want to be sure and take enough classes to set yourself up to do well, but the Music Major --> Neurosurgeon track is definitely possible.
That's an excellent point. Med schools are now full of "non traditional" students. Actually, a traditional track is a handicap.
I think I may have given you all the wrong impression. I love medicine, and I find neurosurgery amazingly interesting, but I'd prefer music. I love medicine, however I adore music. Also, I think you all might have the wrong impression of my father; he is quite educated. He got his MD at Yale university, and also has a Ph.D. in neuroscience (he also does research). I'm starting to think that I shall indeed go to medical school (given that I'm legacy at Yale), and simply keep up music as a "secondary profession." I asked my piano coach, and she says that she knows plenty of musicians that do this, and are still fulfilled in their musical appetite. I do love to read about medicine, and frequently go to my father's office, reading his medical textbooks, and skimming through his research papers, and possible inventions of surgical techniques. Although I find it riveting, I tend to grow tired of it faster than music, i.e. I can happily read medical papers for about six hours, while I can easily spend fourteen hours on the piano. ( I actually did that once!) Also, I figure that with my income, I can give back to the musical community. Without my father's knowledge, I donate one third of my post-tax income (I'm an emergency room assistant) to a local theatre group. Of course, when I'm making 900k annually like my dad, I can support the arts exponentially! The problem that my father has with music, is that he knows that I'll never make as much as he does. He has a philosophy that each generation should be more successful than the last. From what I've calculated, my dad makes somewhere between 1.2m-900k annually, and he's probably going to hold me to making more than he does. How the heck do I compete with that?? He thinks that if you're not rich, you're a failure at life. I'd love to follow in his footsteps, but it's hard to deal with someone that has such a twisted logic. Oh well. So long as he keeps paying for my piano coach, I'll be okay. Perhaps I could study medicine primarily, and minor in music. Thanks for all of your advice!
Didn't a physician recently win a Cliburn amateur contest - or something along that line?
If he's making $900k, then he's one of the highest paid neurosurgeons in the entire country. My guess is that your estimate is on the high side. Average would be more in the $450-550k range. (Less in academic medicine, higher in private practice in major urban areas.)
He has a philosophy that each generation should be more successful than the last. From what I've calculated, my dad makes somewhere between 1.2m-900k annually, and he's probably going to hold me to making more than he does. How the heck do I compete with that?? He thinks that if you're not rich, you're a failure at life.
Does your Dad really think that way? There are lots and lots of people who make way more than 1.2 million. Is your Dad a failure because people who make 2 million a year often think that people who make 1.2 million are not rich?
Some of the wealthiest Doctors out there are the ones making their living giving women boob jobs. Does your Father feel the Doctors who are doing the research at NIH that will lead to cures for cancer are losers because they make less money than boob job Doctors?
In my opinion, it is far more elite to be able to play the important piano repertoire at the highest level, than to be a multi-millionaire Doctor.
Also, I think you all might have the wrong impression of my father; he is quite educated. He got his MD at Yale university, and also has a Ph.D. in neuroscience (he also does research).
The reference to parental education was about how broad the education was, not too how much of it there was. Obviously, a neurosurgeon will be highly educated within the confines of their field. But he might still have a pretty narrow perspective on things.
By the way, I think this has been mentioned, but all you need to get into Med School is a good MCAT score and a bachelors degree.....
Actually you need more, especially as the years have gone on and it has gotten more and more competitive. It wasn't enough even in my day. People even with
real good MCAT scores had trouble getting in (and sometimes didn't) unless their college record was quite good. Nowadays, if your MCAT scores are
merely "good," you need a terrific college record. But maybe you meant to imply that?
That's an excellent point. Med schools are now full of "non traditional" students. Actually, a traditional track is a handicap.
I wouldn't go that far.
You can do OK with a non-traditional major and/or background, but doing it the 'usual' way isn't a handicap.
Didn't a physician recently win a Cliburn amateur contest - or something along that line?
Yes, the last two have been won by physicians.
And quite a few have lost
.....and been proud of that too.
I think I may have given you all the wrong impression.
I sure think some people got the wrong impression.
I love medicine, and I find neurosurgery amazingly interesting....
You didn't much give that impression before
and it's good to hear.
....I think you all might have the wrong impression of my father; he is quite educated.
Nobody doubted that!
....I'm starting to think that I shall indeed go to medical school (given that I'm legacy at Yale), and simply keep up music as a "secondary profession."
Sounds like the right idea, even if you weren't a legacy at Yale.
....I can happily read medical papers for about six hours, while I can easily spend fourteen hours on the piano.
Both of those are fine enough! If anything, you might have "excessive attentional disorder."
....The problem that my father has with music, is that he knows that I'll never make as much as he does. He has a philosophy that each generation should be more successful than the last.....he's probably going to hold me to making more than he does.
I think he'll be able to work this through.
No matter how much money you make, you can't buy your way to play a Beethoven piano sonata on the level of Barenboim.
Money is important, yes. However, if you make money your primary concern in pursuing a profession then that's a bad way to be making decisions. Do what makes you happy, but be balanced.
There was an article I read that to live comfortably in the US, you need to make at least $75k annually -- given the median income is around $40k/yr. Over that much, you are just able to buy more things -- and that gets old. Usually successful people thrive on "accomplishments" and not how much money one can make. By accomplishing things and moving themselves forward, the money always follows.
I love music and I love playing however I also like driving around a nice Lexus, playing my new Steinway B I purchased last year, and living in a nice home in SoCal.
To each their own -- there is no right or wrong, just consequences. You still have time, make your decisions wisely.
This reminds me of a story. Local individual dreamed of playing pro football, and actually DID for a very short time. Body got beat up. He decided that rather than play football, he'd become the physician TREATING the football players. Now, he's a well-known local orthopedist for both the community and various pro sports teams in the area. So, I like the idea of combining medicine (any field) with piano playing.
ps. note to Mark: I took the "prove him wrong" literally because OP asked in the post "how much do you make annually?". And, later continued to say he wanted to prove his dad wrong (as teenagers are want to do...). Seemed like more than an expression at the time, but I get your point.
.....and then there's the stress level. If you think brain surgery is stressful, try making a living as a concert artist.
I have it on authority that it's easier to clip an aneurysm than to play a Brahms Intermezzo well.
If he's making $900k, then he's one of the highest paid neurosurgeons in the entire country. My guess is that your estimate is on the high side. Average would be more in the $450-550k range. (Less in academic medicine, higher in private practice in major urban areas.)
If I had to place a bet one way or the other, I'd guess that the 15-year-old son is closer that any of us could be.
Sure, as per what you said, most don't make that much. But I don't think it's as rare as you indicate, and since in any event it's quite possible that what RachManiac said is right, I'd hesitate to tell someone that he's wrong about how much he thinks his dad makes.
[...] and since in any event it's quite possible that what RachManiac said is right, I'd hesitate to tell someone that he's wrong about how much he thinks his dad makes.
On other other hand, so many teenagers have absolutely no idea of family income, specifically, to say nothing of the idea of wages in general. So, I wouldn't be surprised if RM is off the mark, here. That said, he could also be right, but I wouldn't bet on it on the basis of what he posted.
Regards,
On reflection, op should follow dad's advice, go to Yale, et al, become a doctor, get rich and practice in his spare time.
[...] and since in any event it's quite possible that what RachManiac said is right, I'd hesitate to tell someone that he's wrong about how much he thinks his dad makes.
On other other hand, so many teenagers have absolutely no idea of family income, specifically, to say nothing of the idea of wages in general. So, I wouldn't be surprised if RM is off the mark, here. That said, he could also be right, but I wouldn't bet on it on the basis of what he posted.
Right.
But the subject isn't which is more likely, is it??
It's whether it is proper in such a situation to take such an initiative to tell the kid that he's probably wrong.
IMO he isn't even "probably" wrong anyway. He might be wrong; he might be right.
In such a situation, I think it's an awful idea to come out and tell the kid you think he's wrong. (BTW, I don't mean "you you"; I know that you're not the one who said it.)
He thinks that if you're not rich, you're a failure at life.
Sure - and then there's George Bailey - the "richest man in town."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdilAFZoSs4
unless you are really exceptional (or resigned to living in squalor), major in something practical in school. Sure it sounds fun to major in piano performance or comparative literature or some other humanities study, but doing so is really like majoring in poverty. I think too many kids have been raised under the false assumption that studying something that you enjoy will lead to a successful career in that area.
Becoming a successful doctor is no sure thing I might add. Today there are only a few fields making in excess of half a million dollars/year and the competition is fierce amongst those who are eligible. Medicine is an art similar to piano so a particular touch and feel is necessary like a pianist to be successful. The Art of Medicine is only understood by a select few who know how to listen, then talk to their patients, and hopefully teach their patient about their maladies. Surgical skill is another test trying to keep everything progressing properly in the patients best direction. Then again having the ability too listen first, then speak, and always comfort. With the two renown pianist's I have studied with I would not take their job's, because as much as I love the piano I still think to perform our profession well is more difficult and equally demanding but still amply gratifying. All the traveling a pianist has to endure quickly becomes an unwelcome journey the second or third season around for a successful pianist. The best of the best usually can play Carnegie Hall no more than twice perhaps three times a season. Many of the rest of the venues are entertaining too but just think 100-130 concerts a year with two-four different programs. Would it truly be so joyful to know that you must play well now at this moment always? I feel from several conversations with my two maestro's, that it is a labor of love. But after 40 or 50 years of age unfortunately becomes an endurance test that is not always welcomed. Perhaps for some but not for all. While a doctor's work is methodical, time consuming but stationary for the most part. I am very content as a urologist striving to play the piano better and better every moment. Thats three hours a day and four on weekends. Being a physician has given me the discipline, mental toughness to pursue this humbling goal.
Since the OP seems to have no intention of providing me with the information I asked for (I didn't expect it really) I'm going to go ahead and finish my input.
Don't bother with the piano, Rmaniac. Please save the university spot for someone who is truly serious (you're clearly not) about the piano and music.
The problem that my father has with music, is that he knows that I'll never make as much as he does. He has a philosophy that each generation should be more successful than the last....He thinks that if you're not rich, you're a failure at life. I'd love to follow in his footsteps, but it's hard to deal with someone that has such a twisted logic.
Your dad's fierce outlook is shared by many in N. America, especially immigrants. It's colliding with your love of the arts, and with your desire to live your own life. Pick a college at least 1000 miles away from home. And show him this thread.
Since the OP seems to have no intention of providing me with the information I asked for (I didn't expect it really) I'm going to go ahead and finish my input.
Don't bother with the piano, Rmaniac. Please save the university spot for someone who is truly serious (you're clearly not) about the piano and music.
While that might be a little harsh
and while I've been sort of 'defending' him against what I've felt to be unjustified and out-of-bounds things, I'm with your basic impression. He hasn't said anything about his level of playing, and I think the impression (including because of not having addressed what you asked) is that he's way short of it being meaningful to think about a piano performance career. It's not just a thing of whether someone can make as good a living in piano performance as in neurosurgery. It's whether it makes any sense for him to be thinking of one or the other.
I also wonder if he assumes he'll just be able to walk into Yale or a place like it, which is how it seems and which isn't so unless his qualifications will be outstanding. Unless I missed something, he hasn't said anything about his level or qualifications for anything, just his wishes and levels of interest. Hopefully he's implying that he's a top, top student and that there really is little doubt of getting into Yale or whatever -- but we don't know. I hope he does.
RachMan: Hopefully you really are well in line academically for what you're saying. But you're best off if you realize that it won't be handed to you, legacy or no legacy. You'll have to do well and you'll have to be a very good candidate.
The problem that my father has with music, is that he knows that I'll never make as much as he does. He has a philosophy that each generation should be more successful than the last....He thinks that if you're not rich, you're a failure at life. I'd love to follow in his footsteps, but it's hard to deal with someone that has such a twisted logic.
Your dad's fierce outlook is shared by many in N. America, especially immigrants. It's colliding with your love of the arts, and with your desire to live your own life. Pick a college at least 1000 miles away from home.
And show him this thread. Probably NOT a good idea !!!
When I needed back surgery my neurosurgeon made a big improvement in my life. Oddly enough, my internist, who recommended this doctor, told me he was a concert-quality pianist who used music to maintain balance and relax between surgeries. Maybe you could do both?
Try doing a double degree?
Hilarious!
It's already funny right from the beginning, but then when 'that other guy' comes in, fuhgedaboudit!
Ok, I don't mean to sound harsh but if concert piano was really what you NEEDED, you wouldn't be worrying about finances...
And I would suggest (like what Stores said) to only go into concert piano (or any other arts category for that matter) if that's what you NEED and can't live without.
If you are just looking at the job of a concert pianist because you think it's a "glamorous" job with all the travel, touring, meeting new people, tuxedos etc... think again because A) few people make it to the "glamorous" stage and b) any arts career takes TONS of work, talent, and drive (and a bit of luck doesn't hurt either).
Piano is not for the "faint-of-heart"...
Life is short. Do what you love. Money is not important, there are no pockets in a shroud.
When you are lying on your deathbed, you won't be wishing you'd spent more time at the office. You may very well wish you'd spent more time at the piano.
......but it's really not like brain surgery now is it?
i hear that most pianists rob banks nowadays to cover the overdraft.
......but it's really not like brain surgery now is it?
No - it's more difficult - and even more rewarding!!!!!
......but it's really not like brain surgery now is it?
No - it's more difficult - and even more rewarding!!!!!
I guess you didn't watch the video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGCMtk695Cg&feature=youtu.be