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Posted By: MathTeacher Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/22/11 01:42 PM
Here are the facts. When I come home from work, I MUST start practising my piano. Typically, after 1 hour of practice, I get tired and then I take a one hour break before I practice again for another hour. I do this until it is time to sleep. During that one hour break, I'm free to do anything but I usually choose to pursue my secondary hobby, which is chess. The chess I can sacrifice, but the piano I cannot.

The typical date of course lasts more than one hour, of course. On weekends, the breaks last longer, but still not long enough for a (proper) date, and I still very much want to study chess during those breaks. Phone conversations are manageable during these breaks of course, but no relationship can consist only of phone conversations. So then there's the option of having her at my place, while I do my practising. But it won't work. She may be intrigued for the first 10 minutes and then she will be bored like heck. This will only worsen the relationship.

You might be wondering, why am I seeking advice from a piano forum instead of somewhere else? Well, like you people, I cannot sacrifice much of my piano time. A proper relationship requires a lot of (undivided) attention per day, which I don't have unless I sacrifice my chess completely (which already makes me unhappy), and much of my piano time (the biggest sacrifice of all). I'm not in a relationship right now, but I could be if I choose to make this sacrifice. Any advice? Remember, you people don't want to sacrifice your piano time either. Incidentally, there is something very specific that I look for in women, which occurs in about 1 in 10,000, and she has it. If I give her up, I may never find such a woman again.



Posted By: theJourney Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/22/11 01:56 PM
I suggest you check out this thread: http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubb...w/1/Do%20you%20name%20your%20piano?.html
Posted By: cardguy Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/22/11 01:57 PM
Life is a series of choices. If you'd rather play the piano than go out on dates, that's not a capital offense.

I'm not sure what your question is. If you're looking for someone to tell you that it's ok to practice the piano and play chess instead of developing a relationship with a woman, then all I can say is...

Do what makes you happy!
Posted By: Bob Newbie Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/22/11 02:04 PM
Your Age?..If you play piano as a hobby the girl ..if she does not have the same passion for music(plays an instrument) it will be a case of her or the piano..I've know many instances of men giving it up for the woman they love...only years later..still having a longing for the piano..maybe unhapply so..
my advice... choose wisely..
Posted By: MathTeacher Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/22/11 02:09 PM
Originally Posted by theJourney


Are you saying that I should just make my piano my wife???
Posted By: MathTeacher Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/22/11 02:11 PM
Originally Posted by cardguy
Life is a series of choices. If you'd rather play the piano than go out on dates, that's not a capital offense.

I'm not sure what your question is. If you're looking for someone to tell you that it's ok to practice the piano and play chess instead of developing a relationship with a woman, then all I can say is...

Do what makes you happy!


I can go out on a date, but only during the weekend when I have longer breaks from my piano. My real question is about getting into a relationship, which requires going on dates more often than just the weekends.
Posted By: MathTeacher Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/22/11 02:14 PM
Originally Posted by Bob Newbie
Your Age?..If you play piano as a hobby the girl ..if she does not have the same passion for music(plays an instrument) it will be a case of her or the piano..I've know many instances of men giving it up for the woman they love...only years later..still having a longing for the piano..maybe unhapply so..
my advice... choose wisely..


I'm 28. She has no real passion for piano and even less for chess. I could seek someone who loves the same hobbies as me, but this particular woman is one of physical attraction, which I prefer over someone who simply has the same hobbies as me (I don't need someone with the same hobbies as me to pursue my hobbies).
Posted By: liszt85 Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/22/11 02:14 PM
I started playing the piano at the age of 8 and started playing chess soon after. I started playing serious tournament chess soon and was pretty successful in my age groups, in my country. Then soon came a time when I had to make a choice: music, chess or Physics. I went with Physics but after 5 years of that (I still maintained the other two), I wasn't completely satisfied. I'm now enrolled in a graduate program in Cognitive Science. I play the piano every day, sometimes I get less than an hour a day, sometimes its 2 and on lucky days I get 3 hours to play the piano. I don't play chess anymore but I'm looking to get back to playing. I'm married and have a loving wife and we have a great relationship. I found out that its never about the availability of time but a matter of prioritizing. I prioritize time with my wife, grad school, piano, and entertainment (watching movies, youtube, etc) in that order and I think I manage just fine.
Posted By: Bob Newbie Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/22/11 02:24 PM
I know a guy who loved jazz music..his wife didn't appreciate his hobby..so she threw out all his jazz LP collection..so it was a case of
"the hobby or me" find someone who shares your passion..or you'll forever be banging heads over this issue..
Posted By: theJourney Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/22/11 02:27 PM
Originally Posted by MathTeacher
Originally Posted by theJourney


Are you saying that I should just make my piano my wife???


I am suggesting that ask yourself if you want to risk it to come to that, and if not, that you consider setting your priorities accordingly. Life is about choices and when we obsessively clasp and cling onto something then this can preclude other possibilities. We can't have it all. Most adults experience periods in their life when their hobbies go on the back burner. It is easier to take up practicing seriously when you are 43 and the kids are out of the house than it is to find a wife and start a family when you are 50.
Posted By: rocket88 Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/22/11 02:30 PM


Find someone who has her own passions and interests, and is comfortable being away from you while she pursues those interests, during which time you can pursue yours. You can then get together between those times.

Many artistic or professional couples do that, and it works for them.
Posted By: boo1234 Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/22/11 02:54 PM
It seems to me that you've already made the choice of picking chess and music over the girl, so move on and break things off. If you were really serious about the relationship, you woulnd't be asking the question.
Posted By: MathTeacher Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/22/11 03:09 PM
Originally Posted by boo1234
It seems to me that you've already made the choice of picking chess and music over the girl, so move on and break things off. If you were really serious about the relationship, you woulnd't be asking the question.


So almost everyone agrees that I must choose the girl (who has no interests in my hobbies) or my hobbies; I can't try to have both in such a way that minimizes the damage to my piano skills and the damage to the relationship, right?

No, I have not made the choice yet. I think I should also mention that there is something very specific that I look for in women, which occurs in about 1 in 10,000, and she has it. If I give her up, I may never find such a woman again.
Posted By: rocket88 Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/22/11 03:21 PM
Originally Posted by MathTeacher


So almost everyone agrees that I must choose the girl (who has no interests in my hobbies) or my hobbies; I can't try to have both in such a way that minimizes the damage to my piano skills and the damage to the relationship, right?


Go back and re-read my post. Don't glance at it and basically ignore what it says, as you appear to have done. Here it is again:

Quote
Find someone who has her own passions and interests, and is comfortable being away from you while she pursues those interests, during which time you can pursue yours. You can then get together between those times.

Many artistic or professional couples do that, and it works for them.



You can have both.
Posted By: theJourney Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/22/11 03:21 PM
Originally Posted by MathTeacher
this particular woman is one of physical attraction...

Originally Posted by MathTeacher
... there is something very specific that I look for in women, which occurs in about 1 in 10,000, and she has it. If I give her up, I may never find such a woman again.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xeh7wn_gerard-manley-hopkins-the-leaden-ec_creation
Posted By: BruceD Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/22/11 03:38 PM
You obviously have your priorities: piano and chess. I don't see how you think a "relationship" can survive if the woman in question has to take second place to pastimes which she doesn't appreciate and pastimes which are scheduled in such a way that your attention to her is limited by the clock.

Moreover, basing the relationship primarily on physical attraction seems pretty shallow, to me, and shows a considerable lack of respect for the woman. Surely "1 in 10,000" deserves better. Perhaps that's all that you want out of this relationship, but you're certainly not building it on a foundation that would last.

It's your choice; I don't see what we can add except our opinions. This is mine.

Regards,
Posted By: Bob Newbie Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/22/11 03:54 PM
Be Advised: my opinion is of that of a 58yr old man..if I were 28..I'd be less interested in making the piano top priority or chess!
however at 58..I show women the door! at my age
the women like what I like.. I check their hobby interests..first!
Posted By: cardguy Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/22/11 03:57 PM
One thing you said brought me up short, that you might never find a woman as suited to you again.

The thing is, you very well might not. You don't want to make a mistake you're going to regret forever.

My first answer was kind of facile, but if you genuinely care for this gal maybe you should ask yourself why you evidently don't enjoy spending time with her as much as you enjoy piano and chess. If in fact this is not true, that you don't enjoy these things more, then there's something else at work here...

Can I ask if perhaps you're an asperger syndrome type? Is it an issue of what you feel more comfortable doing? Safer perhaps?

Posted By: feebeeliszt Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/22/11 04:10 PM
Girlfriends/boyfriends come and go. Piano is forever. I turn down every opportunities to date since I have decided to focus on the piano. But it maybe too extreme to you...
Posted By: Elene Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/22/11 04:22 PM
This is extremely odd. You say the attraction is physical and that the woman has an attribute that you may never find again. What could possibly be so important about a physical attribute that it overrides the fact that she doesn't have the same interests as you? IMO men don't usually mature till about age 30 (feel free to argue, guys!), but by age 28 you should realize that physical attraction typically fades. People change a lot physically over time, so physical attributes are a poor basis for a relationship. Whatever that "1 in 10,000" thing is that you insist on looking for in a woman is severely limiting your search, and can't possibly mean as much as what is inside the lady's head and heart.

If your attraction is purely to her body, then you aren't looking for a wife or a girlfriend, you're looking for a sex toy. If both of you are good with that, you might have fun for a little while, after which you can go back to concentrating on your piano and chess and she can go her own way too. It doesn't sound like you are remotely in LOVE. If you were, you would feel just as compelled to be with her as you are to be with your piano.

I've been married to a musician for 30 years. Often we practice at the same time, in separate rooms. Simple.

It's fallacious to assume that having a relationship necessarily means "going on dates." It means being with another person under all sorts of circumstances, which do not have to be formally planned. It means doing the things you normally do in your life, but having this connection and companionship with another person. It might happen in short bursts or it might mean whole days together. It depends on the two of you.

Elene

Posted By: argerichfan Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/22/11 04:27 PM
Originally Posted by feebee_liszt
Girlfriends/boyfriends come and go. Piano is forever. I turn down every opportunities to date since I have decided to focus on the piano. But it maybe too extreme to you...

That is a bit extreme I should think.

All relationships involve compromises, and I see no reason why the OP should have to choose between the mate and music. Seemingly intractable problems require creative solutions.

I force myself to get up at 5am (weekdays only!), and after checking emails, coffee and a shower, I turn off the acoustic sound on the Yamaha and don the headphones. That way I don't disturb my significant other -not to mention the neighbors- and I manage to put in some of the best practise of the day. I'm simply more alert in the morning than in the evening after a full day at work.
Posted By: gooddog Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/22/11 04:42 PM
Math Teacher, you've gotten some terrific advice. A relationship requires time, sacrifice, selflessness and nurturing. If you choose to have one, it must be your first priority, meaning you can't squeeze a relationship into practice breaks. If you are not willing to give a relationship priority, then the piano will be the center of your universe and you will be alone. Choose your priority. If you choose the relationship, commit yourself to losing some piano time. It's worth it.

Posted By: BruceD Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/22/11 05:08 PM
As I re-read - somewhat in disbelief - your original post, it strikes me that this is all about you, isn't it? How can you talk about a relationship when all that you have stated is what you MUST do, what you want to do and when you must do it, without mentioning what she likes and what she might want to do.

What are her interests?

Does "Miss 1 in 10,000" feel that you are also "1 in 10,000"? Perhaps, when you are honest and lay your cards on the table she may no longer be interested. Without some consideration of her interests, how can this possibly even get to first base?

Regards,
Posted By: MarkH Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/22/11 05:21 PM
Before meeting my current girlfriend of 3.5 years (I'm 30 now), I had seriously dated 4 or 5 previous girls, and I had always felt the stress of them pulling me away from my valued hobbies. Through the course of dating them, I learned from two or three of them in particular that "women expect me to dedicate my time to them." So I learned to fully expect that in any relationship, I would have to sacrifice much of my personal time to making them feel good. In the short run, I would be willing to make the sacrifice in exchange for the benefits, but in the long run, I wasn't quite myself, so I wasn't really happy, and it would eventually end, followed by an exuberant celebration of piano, exercise, outdoor adventures, and reading.

However, when I first started dating this one, she had no expectations that I would be constantly around doting on her - in fact, she was so busy herself that we would have to schedule our formal dates or informal time spent together on a week by week basis. It was a revelation! I could actually get all my work done, get almost as much hobby time in as I would have when single, and then on our occasional dates we had a great rapport. There was never any resentment or sense that either of us was wasting the other's time, because we had plenty of time to ourselves, but when we were together, we were always in the moment with each other.

My girlfriend DID previously study classical guitar relatively seriously, and still dabbles in it when she has enough time, so she appreciates and enjoys my playing, but I don't think that's really necessary. I think the important thing is just to find someone who has multiple things that drive them in their life, who shares your sentiment that they don't want to give those things up in exchange for a relationship.

Also, especially in the dating pool age range you are emerging from, there are plenty of little American princesses who have learned how much power their beauty can have over men, and are still experimenting with what they can get through their resources. Dating a few of them may have taught you, as it did me, to expect this sort of high maintenance and self-sacrifice. Who knows, it may be the case that only some of the previous girls I dated were as high maintenance as I thought they were, and others I may have been giving more time and sacrifice than they really required.

So I would suggest to you, not just for this potential relationship but in all potential future ones, that you go for it, but make it very clear through your actions and words that you have lots of things that are important in life in addition to her, and that you expect her to have her own passions that you will support as well. Always be in the moment and engaged with her when it is a date or "us time," but make it clear that you're not going to stop doing other activities that are important to you. This will help weed out the immature ones and ones without their own passions. And as a result you're likely only to retain the more interesting ones anyway.

I think that sacrificing maybe 25-30% of my hobby time is worth the potential of a loving life partner who supports me in all (or most) of my struggles and relishes in my support of her smile
Posted By: Andromaque Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/22/11 05:34 PM
Umm.. 1/10,000, a rare genetic trait, that! Can't think of a physical attribute that is so rare, unless we are talking Liz Taylor eyes or one blue and one green iris..

Math Teacher, you are not ready for a big time relationship, so yes, better focus on your hobbies. You will know when the time comes.. Entering in a relationship between 2 mature individuals is a gift wonderful and worth waiting for.
Posted By: MathTeacher Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/22/11 05:49 PM
Originally Posted by Andromaque
Umm.. 1/10,000, a rare genetic trait, that! Can't think of a physical attribute that is so rare, unless we are talking Liz Taylor eyes or one blue and one green iris..


Oh, I guess I should let this one out. And Elene, I'm not looking for a sex-toy. I happen to be very tall, and dating the shorter women in the past gave me too many problems. Finally, I have a chance with someone similar to my height. Her height is not 1 in 10,000 (maybe 1 in 2000), but along with other understandable qualities I look for, it makes her 1 in 10,000. So I've solved the problem of physical compatibility; now it's the piano compatibility.

Originally Posted by MarkH
So I would suggest to you, not just for this potential relationship but in all potential future ones, that you go for it, but make it very clear through your actions and words that you have lots of things that are important in life in addition to her, and that you expect her to have her own passions that you will support as well. Always be in the moment and engaged with her when it is a date or "us time," but make it clear that you're not going to stop doing other activities that are important to you. This will help weed out the immature ones and ones without their own passions. And as a result you're likely only to retain the more interesting ones anyway.

I think that sacrificing maybe 25-30% of my hobby time is worth the potential of a loving life partner who supports me in all (or most) of my struggles and relishes in my support of her smile


Ok, I think I will give this a try. If I let her go now, I've lost her for good. If I try and it doesn't work out, the only difference would be that I lost some hours of piano time.
Posted By: Akira Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/22/11 05:50 PM
Conventional wisdom would tell you that life is about compromise and sacrifice.

But we are not you.

If you could have "only" one (the woman you've spent your life with or your piano) on your deathbed many years from now, which would it be?

Perhaps phrasing it this way may cause you to reassess what is important to you personally.

I think the answer to your question can only come from within.
Posted By: chrisbell Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/22/11 05:59 PM
Imho, if you have ask the question that you do, then you don't love her.
It's as simple as that.
If you did love her you would make an effort to find a way to include her in your life.
Posted By: cefinow Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/22/11 06:10 PM
I don't know if you are in the States, but I have heard that in regions with a high percentage of Scandinavian immigrants (e.g. Minnesota or Wisconsin), the average height is taller than the national norm. Have you considered that in St. Paul or Racine, your dream girl might be towering somewhere and waiting for you? laugh (That is, when you are "ready to commit.")
Posted By: antony Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/22/11 06:10 PM
Let her go as soon as you can, otherwise you will make her miserable and erode her self esteem for the remaining duration of your "relationship"
Posted By: Pogorelich. Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/22/11 06:28 PM
Well, unless you make some choices, you'll end up playing chess and piano..... alone. It's really up to you. I really think when the day is done, people (living things) matter more than a game of chess or practicing. Just have to find someone who allows you to have whatever time to yourself. Maybe some days you won't be able to practice, others you will. Compromise..
Posted By: Pogorelich. Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/22/11 06:32 PM
I should mention that when you meet the right person, you will NOT mind having that hobby time taken away from you at all..
Posted By: fuzzy8balls Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/22/11 06:52 PM
The number ONE, universal trait that all women are attracted to is ... CONFIDENCE. (Pogo, you can confirm, yes?)

Google "Real Social Dynamics" and listen/read some of their material about dating and pick up theory.

In my experience what people say and what they really want are two different things (I'm guilty of this too, to be honest). If you make your girl your #1 priority, she's gonna get turned off by you. I'm not saying put her last either, but be a MAN and pursue your passions and the girls will follow. If you find the right one that respects your passions, she will want you to practice and not give up piano/chess/whatever.

Posted By: tnew Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/22/11 07:03 PM
Are you asking here what you need to do to convince her to agree to a secondary position next to your hobby? Because you won't get that kind of information here. She either will or won't, regardless of what you want her to agree to. So what are you waiting for? Go speak to her about it...explain what you want and ask her what she wants in this relationship. I doubt she will like what you propose, but then at least you are being up front with her.

Personally I would put a loving relationship first, but then that is just me. Remember that there has to be something in it for her, and well as for you, to get her to stick around.
Posted By: piano joy Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/22/11 07:05 PM
Whatever you decide in this particular case (with this woman), I guarantee you will come across the " too much to do and too little time to do it in" dilemma many more times in your life. Just wait until kids come along! As previously mentioned, it's all a balancing act, prioritizing AND ,most importantly, realizing you cannot have everything you want all at the same time!

Good luck-
Posted By: apple* Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/22/11 07:10 PM
I like Bruce's advice. If you like your hobbies, you like your hobbies
Posted By: daviel Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/22/11 07:12 PM
I agree that you have to stop thinking about yourself. Next, remember that this relationship thing is really all up to her anyway. That's advice from a twice divorced 67 year old. smokin
Posted By: MathTeacher Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/22/11 07:34 PM
Originally Posted by tnew
Are you asking here what you need to do to convince her to agree to a secondary position next to your hobby? Because you won't get that kind of information here. She either will or won't, regardless of what you want her to agree to. So what are you waiting for? Go speak to her about it...explain what you want and ask her what she wants in this relationship. I doubt she will like what you propose, but then at least you are being up front with her.


I think I might have to do that. I will say to her that in order for this relationship to work, I need my alone time to pursue my piano (ok, I will give up my chess studies for her!), that she needs to find her own things to do when I am practising. But when I'm not practising, she will have my undivided attention. I hope her reaction will be ok. If not, then it never would have worked anyway.
Posted By: argerichfan Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/22/11 07:37 PM
Originally Posted by Pogorelich.
I should mention that when you meet the right person, you will NOT mind having that hobby time taken away from you at all..

Wow. I know just what you mean!
Posted By: Pogorelich. Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/22/11 08:15 PM
Maybe it's easier for me, haha, since we're both aspiring pianists. (well, he's pretty much already a professional). Has worked for 2.5 years so far...

And fuzzy, of course, confidence is attractive to both genders, I think... =) I have always dated successful musicians - for some reason rare talent is attractive. (but never date conductors... ugh)
Posted By: cardguy Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/22/11 08:28 PM
In my experience, it's not confidence so much as openness and warmth that women are most attracted to. Of course, you could argue that only a confident man would be open and warm. But really, I can think of some awful bores who are supremely confident.

As a man, I'm most attracted to women who are bright and sensitive with a nice appealing dash of vulnerability. I've always been the type to fall in love at the drop of a hat. It really doesn't take all that much. Course I'm an old married man now, so I confine my falling in love activities these days pretty much to movie theaters where I can yearn away to my heart's content and not hurt anyone. Naomi Watts anybody? :>)

I must say OP, I've been all over the map on this one. Those who argue that if you really loved this woman you wouldn't be so stingy with your time certainly have a point. In my opinion, no relationship is preferable to a bad relationship.
Posted By: survivordan Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/22/11 10:32 PM
Why do you need to have such a rigid practice schedule (one hour practice, one hour break, one hour practice, etc.)? Why can't you practice for say, two hours in the early afternoon, and then go on your date at night? I think that if you want to balance your love for piano and your love for your girl friend, you should try adjusting how you manage your time.
Posted By: MathTeacher Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/22/11 11:31 PM
Originally Posted by survivordan
Why do you need to have such a rigid practice schedule (one hour practice, one hour break, one hour practice, etc.)? Why can't you practice for say, two hours in the early afternoon, and then go on your date at night? I think that if you want to balance your love for piano and your love for your girl friend, you should try adjusting how you manage your time.


Yes, my plan is something along these lines. However I do it, my overall number of practice hours per week is going to drop, but I'm not letting it drop by more than 30%.
Posted By: piano joy Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/23/11 12:16 AM
.... Next, remember that this relationship thing is really all up to her anyway. That's advice from a twice divorced 67 year old. smokin


HILARIOUS !
Posted By: Canonie Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/23/11 12:26 AM
Originally Posted by MathTeacher

Yes, my plan is something along these lines. However I do it, my overall number of practice hours per week is going to drop, but I'm not letting it drop by more than 30%.

It sounds like "Relationship" is more of a threat than an opportunity! It's ok to be afraid. It may not work out, it's not possible to control the whole. You may need the practise (at relationships I mean!), would this be a good time in your life to give it a try and just see what happens?

Put yourself in her shoes for a moment. What does she have to gain? What does she particularly like or value about you? What kindness and support do you offer her? What makes her happy in her life? what are her challenges and vulnerabilities? If you can really try to put yourself into other peoples shoes it may help you have better relationships, practise to make it into a habit if you can.
Posted By: bplary1300 Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/23/11 12:45 AM
You'll find time to fit it in if you really want...if you like her go for it, I don't see why not! Many concert pianists and training pianists all around the world who practice hours upon hours a day sustain healthy relationships, myself included!....Go to bed later! :p
Posted By: Lingyis Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/23/11 01:04 AM
Originally Posted by Pogorelich.
I should mention that when you meet the right person, you will NOT mind having that hobby time taken away from you at all..


Yeah I second that. You're not making it sound like she's "the one" anyway, since I don't really see how hobbies can be that important.
Posted By: Jolteon Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/23/11 03:02 AM
[video:youtube]IeZMIgheZro[/video]

That shall be all.
Posted By: argerichfan Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/23/11 03:29 AM
And do any of us want this? (Great song, Rachmaninov quote and all.)



He has beautiful hands.
Posted By: BruceD Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/23/11 04:18 AM
Originally Posted by argerichfan
And do any of us want this? (Great song, Rachmaninov quote and all.)
[...]
He has beautiful hands.


Does that pass for singing, these days?
Posted By: Kreisler Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/23/11 04:41 AM
All relationships are a leap of faith. You don't get to to skip to the end of the book to see how it all works out.

Jump in or don't, but know that either way, you'll never get to know what the other path might have held.

Posted By: lilylady Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/23/11 05:59 AM
Do the math, mathteacher...

Not enough time in the day for it all?

Marry a wealthy lady and quit your day job!!!

thumb

Posted By: Cinnamonbear Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/23/11 06:45 AM
Originally Posted by BruceD
Originally Posted by argerichfan
And do any of us want this? (Great song, Rachmaninov quote and all.)
[...]
He has beautiful hands.


Does that pass for singing, these days?


Oh, no, BruceD. That song is about 30 years old! Singing is much, much worse, these days!

MathTeacher, your OP sounds like a story problem. And if you start this so-called relationship, you may well have one on your hands!

Imho, you will be ready for a "relationship" when you are ready to put all of the other person's needs ahead of yours, assess the wants and ascertain the difference from the needs, stick to your guns when you have to, make bold decisions and live with the consequences, and realize that she is ready to do the same.
Posted By: Mark_C Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/23/11 07:01 AM
Originally Posted by MathTeacher
....When I come home from work, I MUST start practising my piano. Typically, after 1 hour of practice, I get tired and then I take a one hour break before I practice again for another hour. I do this until it is time to sleep. During that one hour break, I'm free to do anything but I usually choose to pursue my secondary hobby, which is chess. The chess I can sacrifice, but the piano I cannot....
....like you people, I cannot sacrifice much of my piano time....

Looks like nobody yet has said this: I think it would be good for you to strive for more flexibility on all that, regardless of what you do about what you're asking.

Quote
....Remember, you people don't want to sacrifice your piano time either....

I think you're wrong about that. I mean yeah, ideally we may not want to sacrifice it, but I think almost all of us do, depending on what else is going on -- and that almost all of us would gladly make some sacrifice on this for the chance of a good relationship. But we also make sacrifices and compromises on it for the sake of all kinds of other things, frequently.

I would guess that this probably includes even professional pianists -- and almost certainly all amateurs.
Posted By: Cinnamonbear Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/23/11 07:08 AM
Originally Posted by Mark_C
Originally Posted by MathTeacher
....When I come home from work, I MUST start practising my piano. Typically, after 1 hour of practice, I get tired and then I take a one hour break before I practice again for another hour. I do this until it is time to sleep. During that one hour break, I'm free to do anything but I usually choose to pursue my secondary hobby, which is chess. The chess I can sacrifice, but the piano I cannot....
....like you people, I cannot sacrifice much of my piano time....

Looks like nobody yet has said this: I think it would be good for you to strive for more flexibility on all that, regardless of what you do about what you're asking.

Quote
....Remember, you people don't want to sacrifice your piano time either....

I think you're wrong about that. I mean yeah, we may or may not want to sacrifice it, in one degree or another, but I think almost all of us do, depending on what else is going on -- and that almost all of us would gladly make some sacrifice on this for the sake of a good relationship. But we also make sacrifices and compromises on it for the sake of all kinds of other things, frequently.

I would guess that this probably includes even professional pianists -- and almost certainly all amateurs, of which I assume you are one.


If I were playing the piano at any time of day, and my wife came to me and wrapped her arms around me, and started to nibble on my ear lobe, and whispered huskily into my ear, "Want to come to bed?"

Well,

What did RachFan say in Member Recordings yesterday about "For Mature Audiences Only"?

grin blush
Posted By: casinitaly Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/23/11 11:09 AM
Originally Posted by Cinnamonbear

Imho, you will be ready for a "relationship" when you are ready to put all of the other person's needs ahead of yours, assess the wants and ascertain the difference from the needs, stick to your guns when you have to, make bold decisions and live with the consequences, and realize that she is ready to do the same.


Beautifully said Andy.
It takes a long time to reach that balace, to make those discoveries and assessments - though the willingness to do so can come about more quickly.

Relationships are give and take - I personally would not be enchanted with a guy who says he wants to start a relationship by declaring "I need my space".

If you were a professional musician I might be able to understand the importance of sticking to a practice schedule - but even then, it isn't conducive to starting up a relationship.

Believe me my piano playing is important to me too, but my husband comes first.

Posted By: cardguy Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/23/11 01:32 PM
Originally Posted by Mark_C
Originally Posted by MathTeacher
....When I come home from work, I MUST start practising my piano. Typically, after 1 hour of practice, I get tired and then I take a one hour break before I practice again for another hour. I do this until it is time to sleep. During that one hour break, I'm free to do anything but I usually choose to pursue my secondary hobby, which is chess. The chess I can sacrifice, but the piano I cannot....
....like you people, I cannot sacrifice much of my piano time....

Looks like nobody yet has said this: I think it would be good for you to strive for more flexibility on all that, regardless of what you do about what you're asking.

Quote
....Remember, you people don't want to sacrifice your piano time either....

I think you're wrong about that. I mean yeah, ideally we may not want to sacrifice it, but I think almost all of us do, depending on what else is going on -- and that almost all of us would gladly make some sacrifice on this for the chance of a good relationship. But we also make sacrifices and compromises on it for the sake of all kinds of other things, frequently.

I would guess that this probably includes even professional pianists -- and almost certainly all amateurs.


These are good points M.C.There is an element of compulsiveness in OP's thinking. If it's so hard for OP to pry loose a little time now for this gal, how would it be in a couple years time when any supposed romance has begun to fade?

Prolly not good.
Posted By: jtattoo Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/23/11 02:10 PM
Rocket 88 is right. Don't look so hard!!!! When the right girl who fits and fulfills your needs and as well as her own, the situation will be right. Notice I didn't say the problems will be solved...............ALL relationships require work. And talking, compromise and acceptance are the keys. I could no more give up the piano than cut off my leg. And my partner knows and respects that. That's just one reason it has lasted 38 years.
Posted By: DameMyra Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/23/11 02:53 PM
Originally Posted by MathTeacher
this particular woman is one of physical attraction...

Originally Posted by MathTeacher
... there is something very specific that I look for in women, which occurs in about 1 in 10,000, and she has it.


I'm afraid you might be setting yourself up for a lifetime of unhappiness and regret.
Posted By: Cinnamonbear Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/23/11 03:47 PM
Originally Posted by casinitaly
Originally Posted by Cinnamonbear

Imho, you will be ready for a "relationship" when you are ready to put all of the other person's needs ahead of yours, assess the wants and ascertain the difference from the needs, stick to your guns when you have to, make bold decisions and live with the consequences, and realize that she is ready to do the same.


Beautifully said Andy.
It takes a long time to reach that balace, to make those discoveries and assessments - though the willingness to do so can come about more quickly. [...]


Beautifully said, yourself, Casinality! laugh Because when you are willing, then you get to learn how! You are so right!!! Solid relationships are built on a choice and a promise, (among other intangibles) and aren't all that easy all of the time.

On a side note, I was reminded of this book this morning, which seemed to fit somehow into this thread:

How Joe the Bear and Sam the Mouse Got Together

Sam: "I like to ride bikes."
Joe: "I like to ride bikes!"

Sam: "I like to ride fast!"
Joe: "I like to ride slow!"

Sam: "I like music."
Joe: "I like music!"

Sam: "I like drum music!"
Joe: "I like violin music!"

Sam: "I hate violin music!"
Joe: "I hate drum music!"

And, then, "Every day at 3 O'clock, I eat ice cream."

grin
Posted By: Zindaras Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/23/11 07:13 PM
I would say that it would be best to give it a shot. If it goes wrong, you can always go back to chess and piano. If you don't do it, you can never go back to her.

Also, a relationship does not mean that you can never play the piano again.
Posted By: MathTeacher Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/23/11 07:28 PM
Originally Posted by Zindaras
I would say that it would be best to give it a shot. If it goes wrong, you can always go back to chess and piano. If you don't do it, you can never go back to her.

Also, a relationship does not mean that you can never play the piano again.


This is exactly what I'm going to do. Tommorrow, she wants to go to an amusement park. Essentially I will be out almost the whole day without my piano. I can feel my hands already trembling.
Posted By: cefinow Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/24/11 08:48 PM
Well... how did it go? With trembling hands from piano withdrawal, and upset stomach from the roller coaster, and maybe nervous about other things... did you have a good day?? Since it's a piano forum, you can stick to how you handled the piano withdrawal!
Posted By: MathTeacher Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/25/11 02:55 AM
Originally Posted by cefinow
Well... how did it go? With trembling hands from piano withdrawal, and upset stomach from the roller coaster, and maybe nervous about other things... did you have a good day?? Since it's a piano forum, you can stick to how you handled the piano withdrawal!


I just got back home, and it is 11 pm. My mind was on piano a lot of the time, and now I got to get some sorely missed practising done. Sorry for the lack of detail.
Originally Posted by MathTeacher
Originally Posted by cefinow
Well... how did it go? With trembling hands from piano withdrawal, and upset stomach from the roller coaster, and maybe nervous about other things... did you have a good day?? Since it's a piano forum, you can stick to how you handled the piano withdrawal!


I just got back home, and it is 11 pm. My mind was on piano a lot of the time, and now I got to get some sorely missed practising done. Sorry for the lack of detail.


Hope it went well! I love amusement parks. laugh

This gets my mind off piano:

Posted By: celegorma Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/25/11 04:34 AM
Let me tell you something,
I strongly believe that one will eventually find his/her soulmate by doing the thing he/she loves. Never sacrifice doing what you love. If you think that she is the 1 in a million type of girl, maybe you need to readjust your standards. The person who you should look for is someone who shares or appreciates your passion.
Posted By: stores Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/25/11 06:58 AM
Originally Posted by MathTeacher

So almost everyone agrees that I must choose the girl (who has no interests in my hobbies) or my hobbies; I can't try to have both in such a way that minimizes the damage to my piano skills and the damage to the relationship, right?



ALMOST everyone. I do not agree. There is no WAY in helll that I would give up that which I love for any woman. I don't care who it is. Granted the piano isn't your livelihood, but I more than understand the passion you have and the need. True love will never present an ultimatum.
Posted By: Cinnamonbear Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/25/11 07:41 AM
Originally Posted by stores
[...] True love will never present an ultimatum.


I don't know, stores... My first reaction to your statement was, "Wow, that's beautiful!" But then, after reflection, I thought, "Is it possible that true love is an ultimatum?"
Posted By: Samuel1993 Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/25/11 08:59 AM
It really is horrible to be in such a situation - I can sympathies. I recently had a fall out with a couple of my friends because I rarely went out with them, I tried explaining to them that studying music and the piano can be very time consuming, we made up eventually but it took some persuading.

Enjoying Piano and dedicating your life to the instrument is not a crime, however, if you really like this person, then you will have to give up some time. By all means, continue with your normal practice hours but give up chess and a little piano time on a weekend (it is a weekend after all!) and go on a date. When push comes to shove, you have to make time - because no matter how much you enjoy the piano, your relationships are very important. You may work as a pianist/piano teacher or something, but that alone will not get you through life, you need relationships too! Hope this has been a help smile. Like I said, I totally sympathies, I once had a girlfriend who broke up with me and referred to me as a "piano geek"! I hope this girl is much more understanding for you.
Posted By: stores Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/25/11 09:20 AM
Originally Posted by Cinnamonbear
"Is it possible that true love is an ulitimatum?"


No.
Posted By: casinitaly Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/25/11 10:44 AM
I wonder if true love is a subconscious ultimatum. One that is never declared but which expresses itself in the lover's actions?

Everyone has a perfect right to make their own choices, but MathTeacher - if you've just spend a day with a woman you feels is 1 in 10,000 and yet you spent a great part of the day thinking about piano rather than delighting in her company - I think your true love is piano, not this woman.
Posted By: theJourney Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/25/11 10:47 AM
Originally Posted by casinitaly
I wonder if true love is a subconscious ultimatum. One that is never declared but which expresses itself in the lover's actions?

Everyone has a perfect right to make their own choices, but MathTeacher - if you've just spend a day with a woman you feels is 1 in 10,000 and yet you spent a great part of the day thinking about piano rather than delighting in her company - I think your true love is piano, not this woman.


Which finally brings this thread full circle and to its logical conclusion.

Originally Posted by theJourney


Posted By: Mark_C Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/25/11 03:41 PM
Originally Posted by Samuel1993
It really is horrible to be in such a situation....

It doesn't sound to me like he's in any 'situation.' I think the thing is that he's just more rigid about his practice routine than he ought to be.

Somehow much of the discussion has been about choosing between music and dating. It ain't so.

IMO the issue isn't a choice between this and that. It's about how we think we have to approach practicing.
Posted By: MathTeacher Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/25/11 03:43 PM
Originally Posted by casinitaly
if you've just spend a day with a woman you feels is 1 in 10,000 and yet you spent a great part of the day thinking about piano rather than delighting in her company - I think your true love is piano, not this woman.


Thinking about all the piano exercises I'm missing while we were not in conversation, pondering over the fact that I won't have time to practise my daily chord exercises in ALL the key signatures while she is in the restroom, worrying that my piano skill may actually decline while I'm in the restroom, etc... Yeah, I think that at this point in time, my true love is piano and not her. But we just started the relationship, so I don't know which way that may swing later on.

So does anyone think it is wrong for me continue with this? Am I wasting both our time?
Posted By: theJourney Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/25/11 03:53 PM
...or ours?
Something tells me that the chain in the restroom is not the only one being pulled.
Posted By: Mark_C Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/25/11 03:55 PM
Originally Posted by theJourney
...or ours?
Something tells me that the chain in the restroom is not the only one being pulled.

I think you're wrong. It sounds like he's most serious about it, and knowing him for a while on this site, he doesn't do stuff like that.
Posted By: cardguy Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/25/11 03:56 PM
Originally Posted by MathTeacher
Originally Posted by casinitaly
if you've just spend a day with a woman you feels is 1 in 10,000 and yet you spent a great part of the day thinking about piano rather than delighting in her company - I think your true love is piano, not this woman.


Thinking about all the piano exercises I'm missing while we were not in conversation, pondering over the fact that I won't have time to practise my daily chord exercises in ALL the key signatures while she is in the restroom, worrying that my piano skill may actually decline while I'm in the restroom, etc... Yeah, I think that at this point in time, my true love is piano and not her. But we just started the relationship, so I don't know which way that may swing later on.

So does anyone think it is wrong for me continue with this? Am I wasting both our time?


This does not sound within the "norm." Do you have OCD? Worrying that your skills are in decline because you didn't practice for one day definitely sounds over the edge to me.

My initial impression was perhaps Aspergers. Probably wrong, but I'm the only one I believe who saw possible "pathology." I feel more confident about that now.

Posted By: Mark_C Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/25/11 03:57 PM
Yes -- that was pretty clear from the first post, and a couple of us have hinted at it as gently as we could. It's probably time to be stronger about it. I'm surprised that the discussion went on so much as an actual "either-or."
Posted By: cardguy Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/25/11 04:00 PM
Originally Posted by Mark_C
Yes -- that was pretty clear from the first post, and a couple of us have hinted at it as gently as we could.


I stand corrected then. I didn't notice the gentle hints. I was actually wondering what your thoughts were in this regard MArk, because I think you're a psychiatrist, no?
Posted By: Mark_C Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/25/11 04:05 PM
You actually replied to that first post of mine, and fleshed it out further. But I had meant exactly what you said in the reply.

BTW: Compulsiveness isn't all bad. smile
It's a quality that drives us toward achievement, correctness, propriety, and precision. But it can also be taken too far....
Posted By: MathTeacher Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/25/11 04:26 PM
Originally Posted by cardguy

This does not sound within the "norm." Do you have OCD? Worrying that your skills are in decline because you didn't practice for one day definitely sounds over the edge to me.

My initial impression was perhaps Aspergers. Probably wrong, but I'm the only one I believe who saw possible "pathology." I feel more confident about that now.



I don't have Aspergers, but I think I might have OCD, though I was never diagnosed, but only OCD over my hobbies not anything else. For example, I used to study openings in my mind at work because I didn't feel that I had enough time to study the myriad of chess openings after work. Luckily for me, chess is no longer my primary hobby.
Posted By: MathTeacher Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/25/11 04:45 PM
I've realized the real issue for me is time, as was mentioned earlier in this thread by someone. If I could freeze time and do all my desired piano exercises (and all my desired chess studies as well), then I would gladly resume the clock and live an active social life because I've done what I needed to do for the day.

Unfortunately, I can't do that and I almost always run out of time during the day. I could get my desired piano practising done, but not enough of my chess. During the weekends, I can just barely get both done, but only wish I had more time to practise my third passion, which is billiards (I bought a table long ago, which is now just sitting in my home collecting dust). So, is this OCD. I suppose so. But I'm not sure if I view it as a problem, because it drives me to do what makes me happiest.
Posted By: lilylady Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/25/11 04:53 PM
Originally Posted by MathTeacher
If I could freeze time and do all my desired piano exercises (and all my desired chess studies as well), then I would gladly resume the clock and live an active social life because I've done what I needed to do for the day.

Unfortunately, I can't do that and I almost always run out of time during the day. I could get my desired piano practising done, but not enough of my chess. During the weekends, I can just barely get both done, but only wish I had more time to practise my third passion, which is billiards (I bought a table long ago, which is now just sitting in my home collecting dust). So, is this OCD. I suppose so. But I'm not sure if I view it as a problem, because it drives me to do what makes me happiest.



Yes, you are obsessed. And to the point that you can't seem to have a normal social life without obsessing about your 2 obsessions. How much more obsessed does one need to be before they realize it?

Admitting it might be the first way to start improving a relationship. Can't work on something you don't admit too. And several of us have mentioned it.

Edit - and you did ask for HELP in your title! So it seems you really do know it. smile
Posted By: Monica K. Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/25/11 04:55 PM
Other than this woman possessing the desired height, I'm not seeing anything in your posts, MathTeacher, to suggest that she has any other characteristics (personality, values, goals, common interests, etc.) that would lead you to fall deeply in love with her. For that reason, and because you clearly have doubts about this relationship, I'd suggest caution in going forward. Height seems to me to be a rather superficial quality on which to make life-altering relationship decisions. Other than looking awkward on a dance floor, couples with mismatched heights can still bond emotionally and physically in other respects. wink

In other words: Trust your instincts. If you were truly head over heels in love, you would not think twice about the time you were spending with her. The fact that you spend much of the time with her wishing you were someplace else suggests to me that you don't really want to be with her. smile And that's okay. Some people lead happy independent and solitary lives. You might be such a person.

The only suggestion I would make is to be as honest with her as you are being with us and yourself. If you are not comfortable spending more than an hour or two with her once or twice a week, tell her that this the kind of time commitment and relationship you are ready for at this time in your life. Let her decide if she is willing to remain in the relationship with you on these terms. And if you decide there is no future in the relationship, don't lead her on.
Posted By: Mark_C Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/25/11 04:59 PM
Why are we talking about 'commitment' and 'relationship' when he's talking about a first date?
Posted By: Rui725 Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/25/11 04:59 PM
MathTeacher: I think you should honestly ask yourself if you're wiling to spend the rest of your life alone. We've all seen the stereotypical recluse who never married and never had children. If music is all you need, I don't think you would have even started this topic to begin with.

Romantic relationships become increasingly harder to come by as we get older, so just go out with the girl (which you have done), even if you're secretly lusting about the piano. I was in the same mindset as you were in a year ago, obsessed about getting in my xx hours a day and completely blocking out everything and everyone. It's the ideal situation to be in if all one needs to survive in this world is the constant feeling of improvement, but in reality, it's not a sustainable lifestyle. When you meet that one person that falls for you and your music, I don't think there is any reason to escape.

Beethoven, Chopin, Liszt, Mozart, all were documented to have earned for the most primal needs. But alas, they were geniuses, and no matter how much sacrifice in life is needed to reach such aptitudes, is it really worth it? Out of the 4 mentioned, perhaps Liszt was the only artist that passed away in a happy matter. Beethoven was rejected numerous times, Chopin had a lot of female admirers but was too sentimental and fragile to be seen as a suitable male companion, and Mozart just burned himself out.

I think everyone here will agree that we're so much luckier off than a lot of other people. Not many adults in society can truly say that they are passionately in love with something besides money, power and fame.

A relationship may ultimately be what you need to improve your piano. Again, from person experience, complete isolation and disconnection from society can have adverser effects on trying to form a sustainable relationship with the opposite sex. Beware of love at first sight feelings and never ever rush anything. Imagine starving yourself for an extended period time and finally deciding to eat. Bread will taste like pizza.
Posted By: Monica K. Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/25/11 05:05 PM
Originally Posted by Mark_C
Why are we talking about 'commitment' and 'relationship' when he's talking about a first date?


Mark, I don't think he's talking about a first date. I got the impression that this is a woman he's been dating for a while and is wondering whether to take it to the next level of being a self-identified couple, though he doesn't ever really explicitly say so. I'm basing my reasoning on this quote here:

Originally Posted by MathTeacher
I will say to her that in order for this relationship to work, I need my alone time to pursue my piano (ok, I will give up my chess studies for her!), that she needs to find her own things to do when I am practising. But when I'm not practising, she will have my undivided attention. I hope her reaction will be ok. If not, then it never would have worked anyway.


..which to me sounds like the kind of conversation you'd have with a person only after you are past the initial stages of a relationship, and NOT the kind of thing you'd say before the first date. Or at least I HOPE that the O.P. wouldn't say that before a first date! Talk about a buzzkill... laugh
Posted By: Mark_C Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/25/11 05:12 PM
I read it as first date.
(BTW, "read" can be either past or present tense. Here I mean both.) smile

In any event I think it's pretty clear he hasn't been dating her 'for a while'....
Posted By: BruceD Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/25/11 05:13 PM
Originally Posted by Mark_C
Why are we talking about 'commitment' and 'relationship' when he's talking about a first date?


... because of the strong implications in his first post when he stated : "Incidentally, there is something very specific that I look for in women, which occurs in about 1 in 10,000, and she has it. If I give her up, I may never find such a woman again.


It implies to me that he was thinking well beyond the first date.

Regards,
Posted By: Mark_C Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/25/11 05:15 PM
Right -- that's what he's thinking.
That doesn't mean the right thing is to take it at that level.
And in this case, it probably isn't.
Posted By: Monica K. Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/25/11 05:15 PM
Very few people would go to an amusement park for the entire day as a first date. smokin
Posted By: Mark_C Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/25/11 05:17 PM
Originally Posted by Monica K.
Very few people would go to an amusement park for the entire day as a first date. smokin

Unusual people might. smile

BTW: Love the 'smokin' smiley! smokin
Posted By: Rui725 Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/25/11 05:21 PM
Hard to say, but the OP has the personality traits suggested by the posts in this thread, I wouldn't find it surprising if this was a first or second date. Piano and chess as hobbies.... obsessive about time spent on both hobbies. In this day and age, without some kind of social activity/circle, the chances of ever meeting a anyone that is suitable for dating (let's not even talk about marriage) is worse than winning the lottery. And if ALL pianists share a trait in common is being extremely nit-picky. Now, apply that same pickiness to finding love.
Posted By: Mark_C Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/25/11 05:23 PM
Originally Posted by Rui725
....And if ALL pianists share a trait in common is being extremely nit-picky...

I think we mostly do!
Probably about 90% of us are about 85% obsessive compulsive. smile
Posted By: ahash31 Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/25/11 05:28 PM
Relationships are not about what you can GET from any given person but what you can GIVE to them.

Second of all, your list of traits for a girlfriend are a little out of whack. Before I even consider physical attractiveness I keep in mind Loyalty, Compassion, A sense of humor, open mindedness, non judgmental, trustworthy, honest, passionate. Then if the girl is attractive you have a winner. That's pretty cool she's tall and everything but while you're practicing piano she might be practicing her french kissing with someone else if she is not loyal.

Ever try taking a break from playing for a week or two? Guess what, you still know how to play!!! and probably just as well, a simple hour should get your technique back to where it was. Why not go play at an old folks home or something, and actually use your passion to do some good for other people. Stop thinking in terms of YOUR time and YOUR hobbies and start thinking about someone else for once!

Remember: "Love is unconditional, if it has conditions, it isn't love!" -Thomas Campbell
Posted By: Rui725 Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/25/11 05:32 PM
Originally Posted by ahash31
Relationships are not about what you can GET from any given person but what you can GIVE to them.

Second of all, your list of traits for a girlfriend are a little out of whack. Before I even consider physical attractiveness I keep in mind Loyalty, Compassion, A sense of humor, open mindedness, non judgmental, trustworthy, honest, passionate. Then if the girl is attractive you have a winner. That's pretty cool she's tall and everything but while you're practicing piano she might be practicing her french kissing with someone else if she is not loyal.

Ever try taking a break from playing for a week or two? Guess what, you still know how to play!!! and probably just as well, a simple hour should get your technique back to where it was. Why not go play at an old folks home or something, and actually use your passion to do some good for other people. Stop thinking in terms of YOUR time and YOUR hobbies and start thinking about someone else for once!

Remember: "Love is unconditional, if it has conditions, it isn't love!" -Thomas Campbell


Don't blame him, obsessive, serious pianists are rarely the giving type of people. In fact, the extremely driven ones (the extremely talented and geniuses no included) tend to have narcissistic tendencies.
Posted By: MathTeacher Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/25/11 05:50 PM
Ok, if you want more info, here it is. She is a colleague that I've known since September. I admit that I was initially attracted to her physical attributes only. After talking to her every now and then at work (we are in different departments), I realized that she is more of an introvert than an extrovert, which I felt comfortable with. She is kind of geeky, but not overly so, and likes computers. She sometimes composes music, but only with computer programs and doesn't play an instrument. I told her I play piano, so we did talk about music. Eventually I decided to ask her out. She said that she's not sure if she wants to date a colleaque. In other words her answer was no.

You can probably infer that I rarely ask any woman out. Preparing to ask her was very difficult, but I softened the blow ahead of time by reasoning that if she says no, then I would not lose any piano time. So I still felt okay (almost relieved) with her answer. But as the weeks went by, she reconsidered and decided not to let my being a colleague get in the way. So she has recently told me that she is willing to go out with me. We went to a movie theater on our first date, and felt a deep connection. But the next day, I pondered over the fact that an entire evening of piano was lost, and so came this thread. And then came our second date yesterday.
Posted By: leemax Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/25/11 05:56 PM
Hi MathTeacher. You might find this forum helpful. The link is to the "dating" forum on the site:

http://www.nomoremrniceguy.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=20

It's about relationships, men's issues, dating, etc. You'd probably get more cogent advice/counsel/support there since your issues are more about relationships than about piano.
Posted By: MathTeacher Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/25/11 06:00 PM
Originally Posted by leemax
Hi MathTeacher. You might find this forum helpful. The link is to the "dating" forum on the site:

http://www.nomoremrniceguy.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=20

It's about relationships, men's issues, dating, etc. You'd probably get more cogent advice/counsel/support there since your issues are more about relationships than about piano.


I think it is more about my piano than relationships, as many here have implied.
Posted By: Akira Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/25/11 06:08 PM
Originally Posted by MathTeacher
I just got back home, and it is 11 pm. My mind was on piano a lot of the time, and now I got to get some sorely missed practising done...


This was your second date right? For most people, this is the most exciting of times. And yet, you're spending most of your date thinking about something other than her, rather than enjoying your time together.

It seems you already knew the answer to your question before you posted it and are simply looking for others to validate your decision. Am I right?

I wonder if she spent most of your date thinking about computers, instead being in the moment with you? How would that make you feel?

Think about it.
Posted By: leemax Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/25/11 06:30 PM
Originally Posted by MathTeacher
Originally Posted by leemax
Hi MathTeacher. You might find this forum helpful. The link is to the "dating" forum on the site:

http://www.nomoremrniceguy.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=20

It's about relationships, men's issues, dating, etc. You'd probably get more cogent advice/counsel/support there since your issues are more about relationships than about piano.


I think it is more about my piano than relationships, as many here have implied.



Whatever you say, but look at the title of the thread. You wanted relationship advice, not piano advice. Good luck to you.

Also, in rereading some of the posts, most of the emphasis is on your relationship issues, not your piano issues. The piano stuff is a symptom, not a cause. Like it or not, you have some serious work to do, and it has very little to do with piano.
Posted By: cardguy Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/25/11 06:45 PM
Originally Posted by Mark_C
Why are we talking about 'commitment' and 'relationship' when he's talking about a first date?


If I were a betting man...oh wait, I'm a professional card player...I'd lay pretty heavy odds against this getting to date number 10, never mind evolving into some sort of long term relationship...

Posted By: Ralph Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/25/11 06:55 PM
Originally Posted by ahash31
Relationships are not about what you can GET from any given person but what you can GIVE to them.


Sorry, but that's just not right and frankly bad advise. For a relationship to work each person must get something they need.
Posted By: leemax Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/25/11 07:20 PM
Originally Posted by Ralph
Originally Posted by ahash31
Relationships are not about what you can GET from any given person but what you can GIVE to them.


Sorry, but that's just not right and frankly bad advise. For a relationship to work each person must get something they need.


Right on, Ralph! Well said!
Posted By: BruceD Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/25/11 07:41 PM
Originally Posted by Ralph
Originally Posted by ahash31
Relationships are not about what you can GET from any given person but what you can GIVE to them.


Sorry, but that's just not right and frankly bad advise. For a relationship to work each person must get something they need.


Well, yes, but .... In somewhat simplistic terms : if I conceive of a relationship only in terms of what I can get from it, then it's not a relationship, it's a one-way street. A relationship also requires that I give something to it, as well. Each of us must give even while we receive. Isn't that just simple, common sense?

Regards,
Posted By: leemax Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/25/11 08:01 PM
Originally Posted by BruceD
Well, yes, but .... In somewhat simplistic terms : if I conceive of a relationship only in terms of what I can get from it, then it's not a relationship, it's a one-way street. A relationship also requires that I give something to it, as well. Each of us must give even while we receive. Isn't that just simple, common sense?

Regards,


It's actually more than just "giving" that's important. You need to make sure your needs are getting met. To do that you have to know what your needs are, realize that they are important, and know how to ask for, and get, what you want. You can't rely on the giver, because they're not mind readers and may think they are giving you what you want when in reality they're giving you what they want you to have, what they think you want, or what they want for themselves. Those things may not be what youwant and need. This does NOT mean to be selfish or narcissistic, but to realize that you have worth and are deserving of getting your needs met.
Posted By: Ralph Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/25/11 08:29 PM
Originally Posted by leemax
Originally Posted by BruceD
Well, yes, but .... In somewhat simplistic terms : if I conceive of a relationship only in terms of what I can get from it, then it's not a relationship, it's a one-way street. A relationship also requires that I give something to it, as well. Each of us must give even while we receive. Isn't that just simple, common sense?

Regards,


It's actually more than just "giving" that's important. You need to make sure your needs are getting met.


It really is that simple. Many times we may not even be aware of our needs. The reason relationships work is because our personal needs are met, otherwise they simply fall apart. It's like an emotional savings account. You bank away the principle to recieve the interest. Marriages fall apart when one of the people feel they are contributing more than they are recieving. It really is that simple.
Posted By: Ralph Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/25/11 08:32 PM
Oh, I should add, sometimes the needs are pathological which explains why some people remain in abusive realationships. Not all needs are good ones.
Posted By: landorrano Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/25/11 08:39 PM
Originally Posted by Ralph
It's like an emotional savings account. You bank away the principle to recieve the interest.


Sheesh, how romantic, bedroom Reaganomics, even love is justified by its profitability.
Posted By: Ralph Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/25/11 08:47 PM
Originally Posted by landorrano
Originally Posted by Ralph
It's like an emotional savings account. You bank away the principle to recieve the interest.


Sheesh, how romantic, bedroom Reaganomics, even love is justified by its profitability.


Not just EVEN love but rather ESPECIALLY love. It may not sound romantic, but think about it and you'll realize it's the truth.

Just hope you don't end up suffering from tickle down romantics. cool It can burn.
Posted By: landorrano Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/25/11 09:01 PM
Originally Posted by Ralph
Originally Posted by landorrano
Originally Posted by Ralph
It's like an emotional savings account. You bank away the principle to recieve the interest.


Sheesh, how romantic, bedroom Reaganomics, even love is justified by its profitability.


Not just EVEN love but rather ESPECIALLY love. It may not sound romantic, but think about it and you'll realize it's the truth.

Just hope you don't end up suffering from tickle down romantics. cool It can burn.


No, it's not the truth at all.

As for "tickle down romantics", I'm not sure what it means, but I sure prefer somebody tickling me down than banking away their principle and then waiting for their quarterly compounded interest.

I'm guessing that the OP could use a little tickling down too, probably do him wonders.

Sheesh !
Posted By: Mark_C Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/25/11 11:50 PM
Originally Posted by cardguy
If I were a betting man...oh wait, I'm a professional card player....

Really??
Is that really possible?

Seems even less possible than actually making a living playing piano.... ha

BTW: I'm impressed if you are!
It ain't easy.
Posted By: cefinow Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/26/11 12:15 AM
Originally Posted by cardguy
Originally Posted by Mark_C
Why are we talking about 'commitment' and 'relationship' when he's talking about a first date?


If I were a betting man...oh wait, I'm a professional card player...I'd lay pretty heavy odds against this getting to date number 10, never mind evolving into some sort of long term relationship...



I bet that they *do* get to date number 10.
1. He says they felt a "deep connection" on the first date. The afterthoughts about missing piano only came later, and afterthoughts don't count as much as impressions during. (During whatever.)
2. She is as wishy-washy as he is about this (turning him down for the first date, then reconsidering). That can be a good thing-- not rushing into it. They can sort of wishy-washily date now and then for the indefinite future, while they sort things out. Hopefully she is not making her plans for an autumn wedding. Hopefully he is not either. I am assuming a genuine attraction and a genuine hesitation on both parts.
3. He is able to have a sense of humor about his obsession, or at least see it objectively ("pondering over the fact that I won't have time to practise my daily chord exercises in ALL the key signatures while she is in the restroom, worrying that my piano skill may actually decline while I'm in the restroom"). Gosh, I hope that was humor.

Now I have to confess that while writing this, I had the uneasy feeling that my piano practicing time was slipping away. I'd better go.
Posted By: Mark_C Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/26/11 12:19 AM
Originally Posted by cefinow
I bet that they *do* get to date number 10....

If he does, I think it'll mean he followed some of what people here have been saying. smile

Quote
Now I have to confess that while writing this, I had the uneasy feeling that my piano practicing time was slipping away. I'd better go.

Oops, I think I gotta go too. ha
Posted By: riley80 Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/26/11 02:00 AM


I'm 28. She has no real passion for piano and even less for chess. I could seek someone who loves the same hobbies as me, but this particular woman is one of physical attraction, which I prefer over someone who simply has the same hobbies as me (I don't need someone with the same hobbies as me to pursue my hobbies). [/quote]

Oh, dear, 28 and a physical attraction. Hmmmm.....these relationships burn out fast. Do NOT give up your piano and chess. Have a frank discussion with her and make it clear that you don't wish to compromise on the music or chess.

Take it from someone who after many years of marriage knows that physical attraction cannot trump a situation where common interests are few. Someone usually ends up bitter.
Posted By: Rui725 Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/26/11 02:03 AM
Wait until the 5th or 6th date (or even later) to even bring up your obsession about the piano. It's very likely you will lose this lady if you talk about your time needs for your hobbies now. By saying this now, she will basically think,

"who does this guy think he is, we're not in a committed relationship yet and he takes the fun out of it already"

Don't jump the gun, or else you will shoot yourself in the foot.

edit: Don't even fuss over this piano obsession because it means you're assuming this relationship may even get to the point where the girl wants to be with you all the time. It has only been 2 dates.... It takes more than 2 dates to find someone to go into a committed relationship, so unless you are willing to give a little time to the other person, then it will not work out. The only chance of this working out is if you lead some kind of profound mark on her heart (a nice kiss usually seals the deal) then maybe, after 2 dates she may have fallen for you.
Posted By: Rui725 Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/26/11 02:20 AM
deleted, double post.
Posted By: Rui725 Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/26/11 02:22 AM
Originally Posted by riley80


I'm 28. She has no real passion for piano and even less for chess. I could seek someone who loves the same hobbies as me, but this particular woman is one of physical attraction, which I prefer over someone who simply has the same hobbies as me (I don't need someone with the same hobbies as me to pursue my hobbies).

Take it from someone who after many years of marriage knows that physical attraction cannot trump a situation where common interests are few. Someone usually ends up bitter.


Why would anyone want to talk about compromises after 2 dates. Someone on this thread said it before, but what a buzz kill.

If she brings it up then ok, but bringing it up is just assuming she's heads over heals infatuated with you. Either get her to fall madly in love with you, then if you realize you can't compromise the time, she may then bend for your needs. Anything before is just suicide. If it's a physical attraction, then be a man and do what you have to do.
Posted By: cardguy Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/26/11 04:13 AM
Originally Posted by Mark_C
Originally Posted by cardguy
If I were a betting man...oh wait, I'm a professional card player....

Really??
Is that really possible?

Seems even less possible than actually making a living playing piano.... ha

BTW: I'm impressed if you are!
It ain't easy.


It was never much more than a part time job, but I still do play professional poker. It's one of two occupations that I list on my income tax form.

It's gotten much tougher with the current complicated legalities of online poker as my days of playing bricks and mortar poker (casinos, card rooms) are over. Too much wear and tear on this 60 year old body.
Posted By: stores Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/26/11 08:18 AM
Originally Posted by cardguy

It was never much more than a part time job, but I still do play professional poker. It's one of two occupations that I list on my income tax form.



You have guts! I know that there are "ins" and "outs" to be learned, etc., but there's so much luck involved that I have no idea how anyone could ever even consider such a thing.
Posted By: cardguy Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/26/11 11:39 AM
Originally Posted by stores
Originally Posted by cardguy

It was never much more than a part time job, but I still do play professional poker. It's one of two occupations that I list on my income tax form.



You have guts! I know that there are "ins" and "outs" to be learned, etc., but there's so much luck involved that I have no idea how anyone could ever even consider such a thing.


It was relatively easy pickings until 2008 when the double whammy of recession and the anti-poker legislation hit. Since then, it's been a slog. There aren't as many games, and the general play is tougher.

Poker's a complicated game. Unless you're a real wiz kid with a great deal of natural talent, it takes years to learn to play well. That said, it ain't rocket science either. The general approach is to put yourself into positive expectation situations, that is situations that over time are profitable. So for a very basic example, to draw to an inside straight, you need sufficient pot odds (amount of money currently in the pot plus what you can expect to be added in future bettering rounds if you make your hand) to compensate for the odds against hitting one of your cards.) In the case of an inside staight you've ot 4 "outs" ...that is 4 cards which will make your hand..which is just about 11/1 against on a single draw.

Yes, there's an annoying amount of luck in poker, but if you stay away from negative expectation situations you'll win given sufficient time. It's a mathematical certainty.

That said, it can be a tedious, incredibly frustating game. Most burn out quickly. There are very few winners. The rake alone (what the house charges you to play) makes it very tough at the lower stakes where I hang out. I get most of my rake back, since I work as a prop. That is, I get paid to start games at low traffic sites. So that helps greatly.
Posted By: theJourney Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/26/11 12:22 PM
I fellow I walk my dog with is a software salesman by day and professional poker player by night.
He earns more money on poker and the software business has been very good to him.
It helps that only the State casinos are allowed to offer the game here and that he gets to play lots of guys visiting town and enjoying the coffeeshops who tend to have more money than their wits about them.
Posted By: cardguy Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/26/11 12:42 PM
Originally Posted by theJourney
I fellow I walk my dog with is a software salesman by day and professional poker player by night.
He earns more money on poker and the software business has been very good to him.
It helps that only the State casinos are allowed to offer the game here and that he gets to play lots of guys visiting town and enjoying the coffeeshops who tend to have more money than their wits about them.


Much softer games in casinos and poker rooms than online. Vegas is low lying fruit. There are the retiree types who sit for hours on end waiting for a big hand (of course when one of those guys start betting, run for the hills), and the clueless tourists who good naturedly basically give their money away.
Posted By: Steve Chandler Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/26/11 01:20 PM
OK back to the OP. Has anyone else noticed that the only piano playing MathTeacher has mentioned is doing exercises. Playing piano is about making music, doing hours of exercises is not making music. When I was young a friend lived in an apartment where a neighbor played piano. This person played hours of exercises but never any music. I always thought that was an incredible waste of time. I don't know if the OP plays any music or just exercises. He's only mentioned exercises here. If he's valuing his exercises more than the companionship of a woman then he's got bigger problems than anyone here can solve on an internet forum.
Posted By: stores Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/26/11 01:24 PM
Originally Posted by Steve Chandler
I always thought that was an incredible waste of time.


Building technique through exercises (assuming it's done properly) is never a waste of time.
Posted By: Steve Chandler Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/26/11 05:55 PM
Originally Posted by stores
Originally Posted by Steve Chandler
I always thought that was an incredible waste of time.


Building technique through exercises (assuming it's done properly) is never a waste of time.

The important phrase being "assuming it's done properly." To me that means exercises in conjunction with repertoire that uses those particular techniques. Over a period of several years visiting my friends apartment I never heard a piece of music being played, it was always exercises, hence my comment.
Posted By: MathTeacher Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/26/11 09:31 PM
Currently, I'm only training to be a good sightreader, because I badly neglected it when I was in my teens. So, on top of actual sightreading, I do plenty of exercises in increasing my speed and acuracy in playing notes, intervals, chords, and rhythm.
Posted By: stores Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/26/11 09:43 PM
Originally Posted by Steve Chandler


The important phrase being "assuming it's done properly."


Of course. As with any aspect of practise, all things must be done correctly or there will be nothing gained. I don't work on specific exercises any longer unless I'm working on a piece that calls for something (thirds, sixths, etc.), but at one time I could have given a recital of nothing but technical exercises. I gobbled up everything in sight.
Posted By: Jose Hidalgo Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/27/11 10:20 PM
Let her go now that you can, be with someone that is a "match" for you, that includes the things you also love, like piano and chess, look for someone who can coexist with that, if not you will regreat it !

Posted By: Bob Newbie Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/29/11 01:53 AM
you would hate for this to happen..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0DzqiWwOO8&feature=channel


you can see the entire movie on Fear Network..
till 5/31
Posted By: Carey Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/29/11 06:31 AM
Originally Posted by Bob Newbie
you would hate for this to happen..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0DzqiWwOO8&feature=channel


you can see the entire movie on Fear Network..
till 5/31


Geez - they sure made some AWFUL movies in the late 60s !!



Posted By: theJourney Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 04/29/11 06:34 AM
Originally Posted by carey
Geez - they sure made some AWFUL movies in the late 60s !!





There are loads of cultural artifacts from the late 60s that haven't aged well.
Posted By: MaryBee Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/05/11 06:19 PM
Originally Posted by MathTeacher
I will say to her that in order for this relationship to work, I need my alone time to pursue my piano (ok, I will give up my chess studies for her!), that she needs to find her own things to do when I am practising. But when I'm not practising, she will have my undivided attention. I hope her reaction will be ok.

ROFL. I would love to see her reaction. Somehow I can't picture her saying, "Okay dear. When you're not available, I'll try to find something to keep me busy. And when you can fit some undivided attention time into your schedule, I'll be prepared to drop everything and be ready to receive it."

More likely, (if she's really sweet), she would say, "Oh, I'm sorry; that's not going to work for me. The times you have scheduled for undivided attention are exactly those times that I have scheduled to pursue my activities."

And if she's not really sweet, you might want to duck!
Posted By: jnod Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/05/11 09:53 PM
Originally Posted by Bob Newbie
you would hate for this to happen..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0DzqiWwOO8&feature=channel


you can see the entire movie on Fear Network..
till 5/31


that's how I'm planning to go.
Posted By: bennevis Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/06/11 11:09 AM
Some people aren't born to have relationships (I speak from experience... grin).

My hobbies and activities (music, mountaineering, traveling, chess, running, adventure sports....) have always been more important to me than having a partner, nice though that is. But I've never found one that would put up with the things I do grin.

So, if that sounds like you, have a long think about what you really want from life.
Posted By: leemax Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/06/11 02:43 PM
Originally Posted by Bob Newbie
you would hate for this to happen..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0DzqiWwOO8&feature=channel


you can see the entire movie on Fear Network..
till 5/31


Great clip! Amazing special effects! Powerful acting!
Posted By: cefinow Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/06/11 04:45 PM
http://youtu.be/0FUI90HIQt8
That clip with Burgess Meredith reminded me of the "Twilight Zone" scene where he has "time enough at last" in the post-apocalyptic world to read all the books he wants... then, crunch go his glasses... oops. But I had forgotten about his predicament earlier in the episode-- a man obsessed with reading, married to a woman who is not at all happy about it! The "relationship troubles" start at 4:47.
"I won't tolerate a husband of mine sacrificing the art of conversation!"
Well, it's a tongue-in-cheek look at the dangers of incompatibility. "Why, Helen? Why do you do these things?" At the end of the episode, he is left alone in a world where he can finally get along. Almost.
Posted By: Mark_C Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/06/11 04:54 PM
Originally Posted by cefinow
That clip with Burgess Meredith reminded me of the "Twilight Zone" scene where he has "time enough at last" in the post-apocalyptic world to read all the books he wants... then, crunch go his glasses... oops. But I had forgotten about his predicament earlier in the episode....

Great episode! -- and I had forgotten that was Burgess Meredith.

BTW....in thinking of their roles, I often confuse him with William Demarest. Which I imagine is my problem.... ha
Posted By: the nosy ape Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/06/11 05:26 PM
Originally Posted by Mark_C
Originally Posted by cefinow
That clip with Burgess Meredith reminded me of the "Twilight Zone" scene where he has "time enough at last" in the post-apocalyptic world to read all the books he wants... then, crunch go his glasses... oops. But I had forgotten about his predicament earlier in the episode....

Great episode! -- and I had forgotten that was Burgess Meredith.

BTW....in thinking of their roles, I often confuse him with William Demarest. Which I imagine is my problem.... ha


Confusing the Penguin for Uncle Charlie? The mind boggles.
Posted By: Mark_C Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/06/11 06:30 PM
Originally Posted by the nosy ape
....The mind boggles.

I guess mine does too. ha

When I first saw the post about B. Meredith, I was gonna say "he also played Al Jolson's manager," but I figured I better check first -- and it was the other guy. smile
Posted By: Saul Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/06/11 06:41 PM
Originally Posted by MathTeacher
Here are the facts. When I come home from work, I MUST start practising my piano. Typically, after 1 hour of practice, I get tired and then I take a one hour break before I practice again for another hour. I do this until it is time to sleep. During that one hour break, I'm free to do anything but I usually choose to pursue my secondary hobby, which is chess. The chess I can sacrifice, but the piano I cannot.

The typical date of course lasts more than one hour, of course. On weekends, the breaks last longer, but still not long enough for a (proper) date, and I still very much want to study chess during those breaks. Phone conversations are manageable during these breaks of course, but no relationship can consist only of phone conversations. So then there's the option of having her at my place, while I do my practising. But it won't work. She may be intrigued for the first 10 minutes and then she will be bored like heck. This will only worsen the relationship.

You might be wondering, why am I seeking advice from a piano forum instead of somewhere else? Well, like you people, I cannot sacrifice much of my piano time. A proper relationship requires a lot of (undivided) attention per day, which I don't have unless I sacrifice my chess completely (which already makes me unhappy), and much of my piano time (the biggest sacrifice of all). I'm not in a relationship right now, but I could be if I choose to make this sacrifice. Any advice? Remember, you people don't want to sacrifice your piano time either. Incidentally, there is something very specific that I look for in women, which occurs in about 1 in 10,000, and she has it. If I give her up, I may never find such a woman again.



Getting married is of paramount importance, one of the most important things in anyone's life.

Therefore, take a break from the piano, and date the girl you like, you can always come back to the piano.

Posted By: BruceD Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/06/11 08:05 PM
Originally Posted by Saul
[...]
Getting married is of paramount importance, one of the most important things in anyone's life.

"... anyone?" not necessarily for everyone.

Originally Posted by Saul
Therefore, take a break from the piano, and date the girl you like, you can always come back to the piano.


One may not come back to the piano if she doesn't like it and the time its pursuit may take away from the relationship.

Regards,
Posted By: Saul Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/06/11 09:38 PM
I cant see any reasonable justification that people cant do both, be a musician/play the piano and date.
Posted By: Cherub Rocker Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/06/11 10:09 PM
Originally Posted by Saul
Originally Posted by MathTeacher
Here are the facts. When I come home from work, I MUST start practising my piano. Typically, after 1 hour of practice, I get tired and then I take a one hour break before I practice again for another hour. I do this until it is time to sleep. During that one hour break, I'm free to do anything but I usually choose to pursue my secondary hobby, which is chess. The chess I can sacrifice, but the piano I cannot.

The typical date of course lasts more than one hour, of course. On weekends, the breaks last longer, but still not long enough for a (proper) date, and I still very much want to study chess during those breaks. Phone conversations are manageable during these breaks of course, but no relationship can consist only of phone conversations. So then there's the option of having her at my place, while I do my practising. But it won't work. She may be intrigued for the first 10 minutes and then she will be bored like heck. This will only worsen the relationship.

You might be wondering, why am I seeking advice from a piano forum instead of somewhere else? Well, like you people, I cannot sacrifice much of my piano time. A proper relationship requires a lot of (undivided) attention per day, which I don't have unless I sacrifice my chess completely (which already makes me unhappy), and much of my piano time (the biggest sacrifice of all). I'm not in a relationship right now, but I could be if I choose to make this sacrifice. Any advice? Remember, you people don't want to sacrifice your piano time either. Incidentally, there is something very specific that I look for in women, which occurs in about 1 in 10,000, and she has it. If I give her up, I may never find such a woman again.



Getting married is of paramount importance, one of the most important things in anyone's life.

Therefore, take a break from the piano, and date the girl you like, you can always come back to the piano.



What if the girl you like doesn't like you back?
Posted By: Sparky McBiff Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/06/11 10:23 PM
Originally Posted by Saul

Getting married is of paramount importance, one of the most important things in anyone's life.


Nonsense.
There are many people who go through life where marriage is not important to them.
That isn't to say that they don't have relationships but to imply that marriage is the be all and end all and the main point of everyone's life is simply wrong.
It is a severe and tragic mistake to get married simply because that is what "most" people do or that is what is expected of you.
Posted By: Saul Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/06/11 11:06 PM
Originally Posted by Sparky McBiff
Originally Posted by Saul

Getting married is of paramount importance, one of the most important things in anyone's life.


Nonsense.
There are many people who go through life where marriage is not important to them.
That isn't to say that they don't have relationships but to imply that marriage is the be all and end all and the main point of everyone's life is simply wrong.
It is a severe and tragic mistake to get married simply because that is what "most" people do or that is what is expected of you.


"There are many people who go through life where marriage is not important to them"...

We don't take example from those who are wrong.

Marriage is one of the most important things in the world, and to suggest that a person can't date because he is practicing the piano, is just about the craziest thing I have heard in a VERY VERT LONG TIME.

You have 24 hours each day, more then enough to do many things, and not just sit around the piano. Even Chopin wrote that 3 hours a day should be enough of practice.

You are left with 21 hours, cant you take a girl within this time frame?

Come'on...
Posted By: Sparky McBiff Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/06/11 11:17 PM
Originally Posted by Saul

Originally Posted by Sparky McBiff

"There are many people who go through life where marriage is not important to them"...


We don't take example from those who are wrong.



Because somebody doesn't value something in their life as much as you do in your life they are automatically "wrong"????

I was about to ask who died and made you the ultimate judge of what is "right and wrong".
But then I remember reading your embarrassing rants in other posts and had forgotten what an intolerant, hateful and arrogant person you are.
Carry on.
Posted By: Lefty Chev Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/06/11 11:19 PM
Don't you just love it when someone pushes their values on others?
Posted By: stores Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/07/11 01:01 AM
Originally Posted by Saul


We don't take example from those who are wrong.



And that would be why one should not use you as an example.
Posted By: Frozenicicles Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/07/11 06:32 AM
You don't really have 21 hours left over if you subtract practice. On a typical weekday: 1-2 hours for commute, 1 hour for personal hygiene, 2 hours for eating, 8 hours for work, 8 hours for sleep, 1 hour for chores, 3 hours for piano - that is 24 or more hours gone already. 3 hours of piano for a full-time worker basically eats away all of someone's free time. Of course, you can cut some corners - get your wife to do all your chores for you, become an insomniac...
Posted By: theJourney Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/07/11 06:40 AM
Originally Posted by Frozenicicles
You don't really have 21 hours left over if you subtract practice. On a typical weekday: 1-2 hours for commute, 1 hour for personal hygiene, 2 hours for eating, 8 hours for work, 8 hours for sleep, 1 hour for chores, 3 hours for piano - that is 24 or more hours gone already. 3 hours of piano for a full-time worker basically eats away all of someone's free time. Of course, you can cut some corners - get your wife to do all your chores for you, become an insomniac...


Exactly. It is not for nothing that the piano traditionally was overwhelmingly played by young ladies from rich families up to the point that they would marry and become the chattel of their husband.

Having a family, working a full time job, maintaining a social network, being a responsible citizen and active member of one's community and keeping oneself physically fit does not leave much time for practicing and playing the piano at a high level -- which is of course why there are so many threads on PW about people going (back) to the piano in their forties and fifties, presumably after having devoted themselves for decades to raising a family and/or building a successful career.

If there were "one 1 in 10000" feature that Mathteacher should be looking for in a potential partner, it shouldn't be height, but rather wealth and the willingness to support him financially so he can quit his job and be a stay at home Dad, teaching his kids to be piano playing chess champions.
Posted By: Saul Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/08/11 01:14 AM
Originally Posted by Sparky McBiff
Originally Posted by Saul

Originally Posted by Sparky McBiff

"There are many people who go through life where marriage is not important to them"...


We don't take example from those who are wrong.



Because somebody doesn't value something in their life as much as you do in your life they are automatically "wrong"????

I was about to ask who died and made you the ultimate judge of what is "right and wrong".
But then I remember reading your embarrassing rants in other posts and had forgotten what an intolerant, hateful and arrogant person you are.
Carry on.


I have never talked to you before and never said anything bad to you, and there you are casting insults at me, and I'm the hateful and arrogant one?

Your logic is confused.

And I do stand by my opinion that we should not take example from those who are wrong, and be sure that anyone that cant find some time for one of the most important things in life, that means to date and find wife, because he plays the piano, is wrong for its not a valid excuse.

I'm entitled to my opinion. And no one is pushing anyone's values on others, we are just stating our opinions, that's all.
Posted By: Lefty Chev Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/08/11 01:30 AM
Originally Posted by Saul

And I do stand by my opinion that we should not take example from those who are wrong, and be sure that anyone that cant find some time for one of the most important things in life, that means to date and find wife, because he plays the piano, is wrong for its not a valid excuse.

I'm entitled to my opinion. And no one is pushing anyone's values on others, we are just stating our opinions, that's all.


What's important in a persons life is in fact up to that person. Not you. You are not the authority on what should be important to anyone except you.

Your comment that we shouldn't take example from those who are wrong is also kind of silly, since "wrong" in this case is completely subjective and again just your opinion. Of course someone isn't going to take example from someone that they personally feel is setting a bad example.
Posted By: Saul Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/08/11 02:51 AM
Originally Posted by Lefty Chev
Originally Posted by Saul

And I do stand by my opinion that we should not take example from those who are wrong, and be sure that anyone that cant find some time for one of the most important things in life, that means to date and find wife, because he plays the piano, is wrong for its not a valid excuse.

I'm entitled to my opinion. And no one is pushing anyone's values on others, we are just stating our opinions, that's all.


What's important in a persons life is in fact up to that person. Not you. You are not the authority on what should be important to anyone except you.

Your comment that we shouldn't take example from those who are wrong is also kind of silly, since "wrong" in this case is completely subjective and again just your opinion. Of course someone isn't going to take example from someone that they personally feel is setting a bad example.


So there is no ultimate right or wrong in this world?

Should we give everyone the freedom to choose what they believe is good and what they believe is evil?

This kind of thinking is nothing short of a recipe for disaster.

Everyone walking around and creating their own ‘evil’ and their own ‘goodness’…

How do you really expect a healthy society to last and exist for generations to come, with this kind of thinking?

Posted By: Lefty Chev Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/08/11 03:18 AM
Originally Posted by Saul

So there is no ultimate right or wrong in this world?

Should we give everyone the freedom to choose what they believe is good and what they believe is evil?

This kind of thinking is nothing short of a recipe for disaster.

Everyone walking around and creating their own ‘evil’ and their own ‘goodness’…

How do you really expect a healthy society to last and exist for generations to come, with this kind of thinking?



First, I would expect someone to stick to the conversation at hand. We're not talking about good an evil. We're talking about personal values and specifically the value of marriage to an individual.

Second, society will be just fine as long as government protects individual rights. As long as someone's life decisions aren't infringing anyone else, I'm fine with whatever they choose to do. I may not agree with them, but it's not my life.
Posted By: Saul Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/08/11 04:19 AM
Originally Posted by Lefty Chev
Originally Posted by Saul

So there is no ultimate right or wrong in this world?

Should we give everyone the freedom to choose what they believe is good and what they believe is evil?

This kind of thinking is nothing short of a recipe for disaster.

Everyone walking around and creating their own ‘evil’ and their own ‘goodness’…

How do you really expect a healthy society to last and exist for generations to come, with this kind of thinking?



First, I would expect someone to stick to the conversation at hand. We're not talking about good an evil. We're talking about personal values and specifically the value of marriage to an individual.

Second, society will be just fine as long as government protects individual rights. As long as someone's life decisions aren't infringing anyone else, I'm fine with whatever they choose to do. I may not agree with them, but it's not my life.


Actually we are Not talking about marriage. The initial topic was finding some time to go on a date in a busy day full of piano practice.

My suggestion was and still remains, that 'playing or practicing the piano' is not an excuse not to date.

I can't imagine someone rejecting dating for piano playing. For in my opinion, they are both important, and to take it further , I’m telling you this as a musician and a pianist that loves music so much, that dating for the purpose of marriage, is even more important then a musical career.

How in the world can someone choose a piano, over a wife that has the potential to reveal his true identity and to complete him, and also bare his children, bringing new life into this world, its of paramount importance.

This importance is shared by all people regardless of their religion, background or faith, it has been so since time immemorial the very nature and part of human existence and human progress.

So I am speaking from a position of the majority, for the idea of not dating, and not getting married, is a minority position, and the burden of explaining why your position is the right one, rests on your shoulders, for its completely strange to argue that you’re minority opinion is right while the vast majority of the world is wrong.

I'm all for people choosing to do what they want, no one is arguing about that. But we are debating which is the correct path to take. I have stated my opinion, that to neglect this vast beauty and amazing potential and fulfillment because of 'schedule' that has to do with 'piano practice' is erroneous and is in fact closing the door on an entire world, and this is just a pity, because its entirety possible when there is a will to get both worlds, without any problem.

A musician is a very capable person, he has the power of music, and music has lots of power, and he or she therefore can accomplish both things.

To say that its impossible, only lowers the power of music, suggesting that a musician doesn’t have the means to do what he likes and also build a family.

I like to think that Music is great and powerful, and precisely because of that, its lovers can open their hearts and minds to other love.
Posted By: John Pels Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/08/11 04:40 AM
Speaking from a position of having been married ecstatically for 33 years, I would say that common interests and common goals always works. We both started married life as musicians in grad school.That didn't mean that there weren't other interests besides music. We share some and we also tend to cooperate in each others hobbies. We tend to personify the "helpmate" thing.

The original poster appears quite rigid and self-consumed. Cooperation is the name of the game. In order for a relationship to work, both parties have to be winning. I also don't exactly get the deal about height. I dated girls that were 4'10" and girls that were 6' tall. I am only 5'5". Height shouldn't be a dealbreaker in any event. From my perspective, you seem too concerned with the trivial (spelled physical) rather than things that are genuinely important. Yes the physical can fade, but that being said, it is just as important to bring the best of yourself to the relationship. This means that after getting married the partners don't just arbitrarily ad an additional 30-50lbs. and then wonder where their love lives went. I think that it is important to BE the person that your partner married. Just my two cents!
John
Posted By: ando Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/08/11 07:05 AM
Originally Posted by Saul

Actually we are Not talking about marriage. The initial topic was finding some time to go on a date in a busy day full of piano practice.

(seems like a fine day for a walk in the forest...)

Correct, but then you move to this:

Originally Posted by Saul
I can't imagine someone rejecting dating for piano playing. For in my opinion, they are both important, and to take it further , I’m telling you this as a musician and a pianist that loves music so much, that dating for the purpose of marriage, is even more important then a musical career.

(The slippery slope begins...)

Already you've made it about marriage rather than dating.

Originally Posted by Saul
How in the world can someone choose a piano, over a wife that has the potential to reveal his true identity and to complete him, and also bare his children, bringing new life into this world, its of paramount importance
.
(Now you've fallen off a slippery cliff...)


People are not completed by others. You need to be complete whether you are married or not. That's just a poetic concept that some people have taken literally. Naive and ignorant in the extreme. Not everybody is on the same path. Not everybody wants children. Marriage does guarantee completeness, nor does remaining unmarried preclude completeness. All choices gain you some things and cost you some things.

Originally Posted by Saul

This importance is shared by all people regardless of their religion, background or faith, it has been so since time immemorial the very nature and part of human existence and human progress.


(Now you've smashed onto the jagged rocks at the bottom of the cliff...)

If it were shared by all, there would be no disagreements to be found about it. We have disagreements in this very thread. I have no doubt you are a conservative religious type. No imagination, all dogma.

Originally Posted by Saul
I'm all for people choosing to do what they want, no one is arguing about that.


(Writhing about on the rocks in agony...)


Yes, you are arguing that because it's clear that nobody around you can do what they want without interminable lectures about the right or wrongness of it all...

Originally Posted by Saul
But we are debating which is the correct path to take.


(The final, painful last gasps...)

It's not up to you to decide what's right or wrong. Have you appointed yourself as God?

(Relief that it's all over...)

Posted By: theJourney Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/08/11 07:32 AM
ando thumb

Those who can't exercise a modicum of personal control to refrain from unilaterally, arrogantly (and inappropriately in terms of time and place) prescribing for others the intolerant, primitive, ethno-centric explosive recipe for creating human strife and suffering by building for themselves an us-versus-them tribal unity and creating a god in their own image that then justifies and recommends in holy scripture the repeated bloody genocide of those who dare to think or act differently as represented by TNT (Tanakh 'n Talmud) should please spare us the proselytism in this thread and many others, show some respect for others and stick to the topics at hand.

Thank you in advance for your cooperation.
Posted By: stores Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/08/11 09:42 AM
Saul, are you actually married? If so, God bless that woman (or man) for putting up with someone like you. My God, I can't even imagine...
Posted By: LimeFriday Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/08/11 10:47 AM
Speaking as someone who is NOT married and who doesn't have children - and in all likelihood have run out of time biologically to have children - I will just have to live in my 'wrongness' and try to enjoy my life, playing piano, working in a job I love, socialising with friends and family...

lol... I don't expect anyone to follow my example - but my life certainly doesn't feel wrong or as though I'm letting down the human race by prioritizing other things over dating and marriage.

And - as for needing someone to 'complete' me and to reveal my true identity... well... I can't think of a way to answer that that won't be censored - LOL.
Posted By: Lefty Chev Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/08/11 12:23 PM
ando - You expressed what I would have said better than I ever could. The only thing I'd disagree with is your point about "people are not completed by others". I absolutely agree that healthy relationships start with healthy individuals that are first and foremost complete individuals. If someone wants another person to "complete them", more power to them. That's not how I'd live my life, but their life isn't my life.

But at the same time, that individual that chooses to need someone else to "complete" them shouldn't be projecting their choices to the rest of the world.
Posted By: thalbergmad Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/08/11 12:39 PM
Originally Posted by MathTeacher
Incidentally, there is something very specific that I look for in women, which occurs in about 1 in 10,000, and she has it.


I fail to see how the ability to reverse into a car park space is essential in a relationship.

Thal
Posted By: chercherchopin Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/08/11 12:51 PM
Originally Posted by Lefty Chev
ando - You expressed what I would have said better than I ever could. The only thing I'd disagree with is your point about "people are not completed by others". I absolutely agree that healthy relationships start with healthy individuals that are first and foremost complete individuals. If someone wants another person to "complete them", more power to them. That's not how I'd live my life, but their life isn't my life.

But at the same time, that individual that chooses to need someone else to "complete" them shouldn't be projecting their choices to the rest of the world.

I prefer the idea that partners in a relationship 'complement' each other, and that we're already 'complete' as individuals.

In the song "Court and Spark", Joni Mitchell sang "And you could complete me, I'd complete you" ... but that always seemed a bit tongue-in-cheek to me, as though she was satirizing and skeptical of the idealism of that sentiment.
Posted By: ando Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/08/11 01:09 PM
Originally Posted by chercherchopin

I prefer the idea that partners in a relationship 'complement' each other, and that we're already 'complete' as individuals.


Yes, this is the sense I meant it in my post above.
Posted By: Saul Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/08/11 01:27 PM
You know its always interesting how a simple question can get us to places we didn’t believe had any connection to the initial topic.

Everything in life has a root, just like a tree, we only see the outside, that which is revealed, but yet, underground the roots of the tree are what holds it steady and gives it life, for without them the tree can’t really survive.

This question asked by the original poster, opened in front of us deep philosophical questions of existence, priorities and outlook on life. I find it counterproductive to approach to this topic in a simplistic and minimalist way, where people insist to disregard any deep and meaningful discussion trying to find out the root and essence of things, and rather just concentrate on the surface.

Its interesting that when I have spoken about religion a few days ago, some people have decided to attack it, blaming me for proselytizing, even though this was the last thing I wanted to do. I really don’t know why a person can summon up the aid of philosophy, mathematics, physics, science and history in his discussions, while at the moment he speaks about religion he must have ulterior ‘dark’ motives that somehow threaten the future of the entire website, I never understood what was ‘up with that’, and why there is this sense of paranoia, when it comes to religion.

To compound my surprise at this behavior, I must that add now, that the Jewish religion has never ever been a proselytizing religion, and we are not looking for converts, and we don’t want or desire the whole world to be Jewish, in complete contrast to Christianity that seeks and tirelessly works to attract and convert people all over the world, we Jews are totally against that, and don’t work to that end.

Said all this, my remarks about this topic didn’t include any reference or mentioning about ‘religion’ or any particular ‘set of beliefs’, yet again I was criticized, sometimes harshly, with a flinch of personal attacks and insults, saying that I should ‘save it’ and stop talking about my ‘religion’, and stop ‘proselytizing’, and stop been ‘intolerant’ and ‘hateful’ and so on.

I wonder where did these come from, and what are they based on , I didn’t attack anyone in here personally, All I said were some things that express my convictions on certain issues without mentioning anything about religion, yet the insults and the bellicose feelings don’t seem to cool off.

Where does this come from?

I believe that it comes from the general feeling and attitude that some people have when they are confronted with a totally different view point, that completely rejects their out look on things in the most fundamental way, the only reaction they have is to personally attack the individual that dares to speak his mind freely, as an expression of freedom of speech. The notion is that ‘if we can demonize him’ the rest is not important, the job will be done and no one would lend him any credibility.

Isn’t this approach translates into running away from a deep and intellectual discussion on this matter? Must some people always resort to personal attacks in order to make a point?

Now, lets talk about the concept of been ‘Completed by the other’.

This entire discussion is nothing more then an inverted discussion of even a greater issue and question.

Do human beings have ‘Souls’ or they are nothing more then physical beings made of atoms , molecules, and chemicals, who don’t have a higher calling, and live in this world no different in many aspects like ‘other animals’ who also don’t possess any higher aim and purpose in their existence?

For if we say that human beings are not only animals, and they possess a Spiritual Soul that came from the higher worlds, then we for sure must understand why this Spiritual Soul was given to him, to what end, why he was entrusted with such a heavenly gift, that puts him even higher then the angels?

Surely it wasn’t only given for the purpose to entertain himself and others, to just enjoy life as he sees fit and proper? Surely this Soul must separate him from all those creatures that lack this soul, and therefore lack the power of speech, and reason, and therefore choice?

So I was always raised to look at something deeply, not only at its surface and try to understand its essence.

One might say, that this question, is also an inverted discussion to whether this universe ‘Came’ to existence by itself, or it was designed and created by a Master Creator?

This completely and categorically different world out looks between people are destined to create controversy, arguments, and different conclusions and different answers to asked questions.

Those who don’t’ believe in a Spiritual Soul, will make fun of those who say anything about ‘Been completed by other half’, and they would also attack his beliefs and motives suggesting that he must be ‘proselytizing’.

But those who believe in the existence of a Master Creator, also believe that the human being is made up with a physical component and a spiritual component, and therefore the entire understanding of what is the purpose of man in this universe, is categorically different then the rest.

I wonder why is it such an awful ‘Sin’ to think differently, to believe differently, and to write so in this forum ‘differently’ then what others believe to be true?

If this is a website that permits all people to state their opinions based on their beliefs and experiences in life, why then some opinions ‘matter’ while the rest must be vilified and attacked?

One can answer to this question simply, that the vast majority in here doesn’t agree with what I will say and with my perspective on things, Ok, that’s understandable, but when one applies fairness, it should be that all members of this site must be able to express their opinions in a free manner without been attacked personally from all directions.

Is this a website for liberal, agnostic, evolutionists, only, or others can also participate without been attacked?

Please someone let me know, so I will know to whether continue stating my opinions in here, or not.

Posted By: ando Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/08/11 01:35 PM
Ah Saul, assuming that everybody else has the problem... Occam's Razor would suggest that you are the problem. Your post is simply too damned long-winded to even address. I'll just say that nobody is objecting to your religion but rather your personal style.
Posted By: Saul Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/08/11 01:52 PM
Originally Posted by ando
Ah Saul, assuming that everybody else has the problem... Occam's Razor would suggest that you are the problem. Your post is simply too damned long-winded to even address. I'll just say that nobody is objecting to your religion but rather your personal style.


My personal style is my personal style, maybe I also dont like your style, but youre entitled to your style, and I try to discuss the content of what you say and not your 'style'.
Posted By: ando Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/08/11 02:14 PM
Originally Posted by Saul
Originally Posted by ando
Ah Saul, assuming that everybody else has the problem... Occam's Razor would suggest that you are the problem. Your post is simply too damned long-winded to even address. I'll just say that nobody is objecting to your religion but rather your personal style.


My personal style is my personal style, maybe I also dont like your style, but youre entitled to your style, and I try to discuss the content of what you say and not your 'style'.


Your content has already been discredited. Your style is what makes you difficult to engage with.
Posted By: theJourney Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/08/11 02:15 PM
Could you guys get a room?

This thread is about the relationship of a Mathteacher and his piano and maybe a tall order of a lady.
Not yours.

Since the original poster appears to no longer be participating (and is probably practicing which would be a good place for us too), perhaps this would be an elegant moment for the moderators to put this thread out of its misery.
Posted By: chercherchopin Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/08/11 02:16 PM
Saul, here’s the thing. You convey this all-knowing arrogance (whether you mean to or not), and I do think it’s informed by your religious convictions. (I haven’t even read this entire thread, but I did read the controversial statements in the other ones.) You called people ‘whores’ and ‘trash’ and spoke of immoral behavior, and yet now you’re accusing other people of lacking tolerance and making personal attacks against you.

You try to equate religion with other fields of interest that invariably come up in discussions, but you’ve got to know that there are reasons that religion and politics aren’t the same as math and history. They’re deeply personal, they do concern judgments about what’s ‘right’ and ‘wrong’. Discussing those subjects leads so frequently to hard feelings and even contempt that it’s with good reason that they are taboo in polite conversation.

You don’t really think you’re the only one who wrestles with existential issues and the ‘deeper’ meanings of life and existence, do you? You write as though you have deep insights and everybody else is shallow -- and that’s why I used the word ‘arrogance’ to describe your style. Adults in need of spiritual guidance certainly know how to seek it and find it. We don't come to a message board about piano music to be preached to!

You’re right that many people tend to reflexively attack what they don’t understand, but I am sure most people believe that’s what you have been doing.
Posted By: Lefty Chev Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/08/11 02:21 PM
I had been working on a response to Saul, but this will go exactly the same direction that any other conversation with a similar personality would go, and I'd like to think that I know better.


What I will say though is that there's a difference between having an opinion and stating is as such, and stating your opinion as though it's fact for everyone else. Saul, maybe if you'd state thing more as opinion instead of fact, you'd get along with more people? Instead of telling everyone that marriage IS the most important thing, make it clear that you're only talking about what's important to you and that you understand that everyone else may think differently.

I'm guessing that doing so would cause you quite a bit of personal distress, but I could be wrong.
Posted By: Saul Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/08/11 02:24 PM
Originally Posted by Lefty Chev
I had been working on a response to Saul, but this will go exactly the same direction that any other conversation with a similar personality would go, and I'd like to think that I know better.


What I will say though is that there's a difference between having an opinion and stating is as such, and stating your opinion as though it's fact for everyone else. Saul, maybe if you'd state thing more as opinion instead of fact, you'd get along with more people? Instead of telling everyone that marriage IS the most important thing, make it clear that you're only talking about what's important to you and that you understand that everyone else may think differently.

I'm guessing that doing so would cause you quite a bit of personal distress, but I could be wrong.


Let me just say that all my comments are my personal opinions, and not more then that.

Can I be any clearer then that? I thought that it was self evident, I never force my views on others, never did and never will...

Hope this conversation can get better now...
Posted By: ando Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/08/11 02:30 PM
Originally Posted by theJourney
Could you guys get a room?


I'd really rather not!!
Quote

This thread is about the relationship of a Mathteacher and his piano and maybe a tall order of a lady.
Not yours.

Since the original poster appears to no longer be participating (and is probably practicing which would be a good place for us too), perhaps this would be an elegant moment for the moderators to put this thread out of its misery.


I agree.
Posted By: Saul Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/08/11 02:33 PM
Originally Posted by ando
Originally Posted by theJourney
Could you guys get a room?


I'd really rather not!!
Quote

This thread is about the relationship of a Mathteacher and his piano and maybe a tall order of a lady.
Not yours.

Since the original poster appears to no longer be participating (and is probably practicing which would be a good place for us too), perhaps this would be an elegant moment for the moderators to put this thread out of its misery.


I agree.


I don't know what's the point to begin every interesting discussion if the end result is closure when things get a little controversial...

If we all agree on everything, lets just say so, and stop talking all together...what's the point of discussing?

Posted By: thalbergmad Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/08/11 03:03 PM
Originally Posted by Saul


Its interesting that when I have spoken about religion a few days ago, some people have decided to attack it



That is because it is like a virus that infests forums.

People that have got on well for years can become enemies when it rears its ugly head.

Pianostreets is a far nicer and more pleasant place, now that it is never discussed at all.

Thal
Posted By: Saul Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/08/11 03:12 PM
Originally Posted by thalbergmad
Originally Posted by Saul


Its interesting that when I have spoken about religion a few days ago, some people have decided to attack it



That is because it is like a virus that infests forums.

People that have got on well for years can become enemies when it rears its ugly head.

Pianostreets is a far nicer and more pleasant place, now that it is never discussed at all.

Thal


Another addition to the list:

Now its a virus...

Interesting.

Any other innovatives names to describe religion?

1. First I was the 'bad guy'.
2. Then it was my 'style' the style was bad.
3. Now its religion in general because its the same as the KKK.
4. Now its a virus.


Any other 'interesting descriptions and accusations'...?




Posted By: Lefty Chev Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/08/11 03:15 PM
He didn't call religion a virus. He said discussion religion is like a virus.

Quick question Saul.. how many other online communities have you been down this same road with? I'm guessing this isn't your first rodeo.
Posted By: Saul Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/08/11 03:25 PM
Originally Posted by Lefty Chev
He didn't call religion a virus. He said discussion religion is like a virus.

Quick question Saul.. how many other online communities have you been down this same road with? I'm guessing this isn't your first rodeo.


But I was not talking about religion, that's the whole point, look up at my original remark, can you see any mention of religion?

As to other websites, I always had a difficult time getting my point across to an audience that hates religion and God, and mostly secular and liberal/progressive.

I have always been 'Mobbed' as they say by the liberal left, its nothing new, and nothing surprising.

But if I had 20 to 30 people who had similar views and perspectives, I would have been more comfortable, but been a single voice in crowd that thinks and believes completely differently then me, is an uphill battle.

People can just listen, and accept that some people have different points of view, but they are not willing to do so.
Posted By: Lefty Chev Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/08/11 03:43 PM
You've seemed to rationalize why you don't get along with people and I'm not sure any amount of explaining will convince you that you've got it wrong. Take care..
Posted By: gooddog Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/08/11 03:45 PM
Piano World is generally a friendly, civilized place where people don't always agree but do try to treat each other with respect. Newcomers are welcomed and given time to establish their online personalities. Offensive posters are swiftly admonished, or (thankfully) leave because it isn't any fun dueling with open minded, civil people. We now have a relatively new poster here who has established himself as intolerant and rigid. He constantly takes the discussion off topic. The best way to make him go away is to ignore him.

DID YOU KNOW THERE IS AN "IGNORE THIS POSTER" FEATURE? Watch me as I do this...click on the offending poster's name. Then click "Profile". Then click IGNORE THIS USER. Problem fixed!!!!

Now let's get back to music and relationships.
Posted By: Saul Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/08/11 03:48 PM
Originally Posted by Lefty Chev
You've seemed to rationalize why you don't get along with people and I'm not sure any amount of explaining will convince you that you've got it wrong. Take care..


I get along with people very well, and I have many friends in real life. But on an internet page, since my opinions are the minority some people are attacking it passionately...

I'm sure if we were to talk to each other live on a personal level, this kind of behavior wouldn’t even exist, but attacking someone behind the computer is hardly a noble or brave thing to do.

Agreeing with those who agree with you is easy, but finding a measure of decency and dignity with those you differ in perspective, is the hard thing to do, especially on an internet based discussion, it would be more easier if it was a real live discussion though..

Posted By: thalbergmad Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/08/11 03:51 PM
Originally Posted by Saul

People can just listen, and accept that some people have different points of view, but they are not willing to do so.


I have not spent a great deal of time in this forum, but I often find that some "religious" types never miss an opportunity to bring their faith into a totally unrelated subject and they are usually the ones that will not tolerate other peoples point of view.

Personally, I do not see how religion can worm its way into a thread of this nature, but somehow it has. Not everyone wants their life guided by the scribblings of a bunch of bronze age sandal wearing goat herders.

Peace be with you.

Thal
Posted By: Saul Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/08/11 03:53 PM
Originally Posted by gooddog
Piano World is generally a friendly, civilized place where people don't always agree but do try to treat each other with respect. Newcomers are welcomed and given time to establish their online personalities. We now have a relatively new poster here who is off topic, and polluting the atmosphere with his personal philosophy of intolerance and rigidity.

DID YOU KNOW THERE IS AN IGNORE THIS POSTER FEATURE? Watch me as I do this...click on the offending poster's name. Then click "Profile". Then click IGNORE THIS USER. Problem fixed!!!!

Now let's get back to music and relationships.


See what I was talking about?

Complete disregard to respecting other opinions, and other people's comments, and other points of view and attacking it with a viciousness that borders cruelty.

Again she describes what I say as 'personal philosophy' suggesting that I am some kind of a guru creating and dreaming my own opinions based on thin air, when the fact is that my position is the position of the vast majority of this world, who DO believe in God and Do have a religion.

My comments are universal and not concentrating on one particular religion. The vast majority of the world is religious and values the concept of dating and marriage and bringing up a family, how in the WORLD THIS CAN BE MY OWN DREAMED UP PERSONAL OPINION?

Totally outrageous.
Posted By: Saul Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/08/11 03:56 PM
Originally Posted by thalbergmad
Originally Posted by Saul

People can just listen, and accept that some people have different points of view, but they are not willing to do so.


I have not spent a great deal of time in this forum, but I often find that some "religious" types never miss an opportunity to bring their faith into a totally unrelated subject and they are usually the ones that will not tolerate other peoples point of view.

Personally, I do not see how religion can worm its way into a thread of this nature, but somehow it has. Not everyone wants their life guided by the scribblings of a bunch of bronze age sandal wearing goat herders.

Peace be with you.

Thal


7.
scribblings

8. of a bunch of bronze age sandal wearing goat herders.

I can feel the 'Love'...

No one was pushing anyone to believe and do anything, I was just expressing my views, too bad that this is just 'too much' for you to handle...
Posted By: Sparky McBiff Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/08/11 04:00 PM
Originally Posted by theJourney


Since the original poster appears to no longer be participating (and is probably practicing which would be a good place for us too), perhaps this would be an elegant moment for the moderators to put this thread out of its misery.


Saul, thread killer extraordinaire.
Posted By: thalbergmad Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/08/11 04:01 PM
Originally Posted by Saul
Originally Posted by thalbergmad
Originally Posted by Saul

People can just listen, and accept that some people have different points of view, but they are not willing to do so.


I have not spent a great deal of time in this forum, but I often find that some "religious" types never miss an opportunity to bring their faith into a totally unrelated subject and they are usually the ones that will not tolerate other peoples point of view.

Personally, I do not see how religion can worm its way into a thread of this nature, but somehow it has. Not everyone wants their life guided by the scribblings of a bunch of bronze age sandal wearing goat herders.

Peace be with you.

Thal


7.
scribblings

8. of a bunch of bronze age sandal wearing goat herders.

I can feel the 'Love'...

No one was pushing anyone to believe and do anything, I was just expressing my views, too bad that this is just 'too much' for you to handle...


If you carry on like this, you might be up to 10. by the end of the day.

Thal
Posted By: Saul Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/08/11 04:03 PM
Originally Posted by Sparky McBiff
Originally Posted by theJourney


Since the original poster appears to no longer be participating (and is probably practicing which would be a good place for us too), perhaps this would be an elegant moment for the moderators to put this thread out of its misery.


Saul, thread killer extraordinaire.


Intolerance to a different point of view and the hate of anything that has to do with religion is the cause of killing the thread.

People must accept the fact that I'm a religious person and that may result in having different points of view sometimes.

Too bad that this is just too much to ask from some people...
Posted By: Ralph Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/08/11 04:08 PM
This thread has lasted longer than most relationships. Time to end it.
Posted By: Saul Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/08/11 04:17 PM
Originally Posted by Ralph
This thread has lasted longer than most relationships. Time to end it.


Whatever, Im done with it...
Posted By: stores Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/08/11 06:13 PM
Originally Posted by Saul


Intolerance to a different point of view and the hate of anything that has to do with religion is the cause of killing the thread.



Umm no. Intolerance to different points of view and the hate of anything that doesn't align itself with your point of view is what's killed this thread (as well as others)...not to mention the fact that it's killed any chance of you being taken seriously by anyone here (but yourself, of course...and maybe God, though your God and mine are not one and the same).
Posted By: Saul Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/08/11 06:22 PM
Originally Posted by stores
Originally Posted by Saul


Intolerance to a different point of view and the hate of anything that has to do with religion is the cause of killing the thread.



Umm no. Intolerance to different points of view and the hate of anything that doesn't align itself with your point of view is what's killed this thread (as well as others)...not to mention the fact that it's killed any chance of you being taken seriously by anyone here (but yourself, of course...and maybe God, though your God and mine are not one and the same).


Added to iggy list because you're offensive and cant change the subject.

I have made a remark saying that I dont want to talk about this anymore, but some people here are looking to continue creating troubles and problems and arguments that lead no where.

The best solution is to ignore them, which I did.
Posted By: theJourney Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/08/11 06:38 PM
Originally Posted by Saul
Originally Posted by Ralph
This thread has lasted longer than most relationships. Time to end it.


Whatever, Im done with it...


If a man cannot be trusted at his word, how can he possibly be respected?
Posted By: Saul Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/08/11 06:39 PM
Originally Posted by theJourney
Originally Posted by Saul
Originally Posted by Ralph
This thread has lasted longer than most relationships. Time to end it.


Whatever, Im done with it...


If a man cannot be trusted at his word, how can he possibly be respected?


Added...keep on fighting among yourselves, I'm done with that...
Posted By: Mark_C Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/08/11 08:34 PM
Saul, you seem well on your way to ignoring the entire membership. smile
Posted By: Saul Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/08/11 08:39 PM
Originally Posted by Mark_C
Saul, you seem well on your way to ignoring the entire membership. smile


Dont worry Canon, I feel more comfortable talking to people like you, and others who are open to different points of view...

smile
Posted By: Mark_C Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/08/11 08:50 PM
OK -- but by the way, please call me Mark. smile
Posted By: chercherchopin Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/08/11 08:50 PM
'Friends of Saul'! How cool is that? Kind of like 'Friends of Bill' ... or 'Friends of Dorothy'. grin
Posted By: Mark_C Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/08/11 08:52 PM
Originally Posted by chercherchopin
....'Friends of Dorothy'. grin

LOLOLOL!

(I had to google it......)
Posted By: Saul Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/08/11 08:57 PM
Originally Posted by Mark_C
OK -- but by the way, please call me Mark. smile


Ok Mark...you still didnt tell me how your Chopin Waltz performance went 2 years ago...
Posted By: Saul Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/08/11 08:58 PM
Originally Posted by chercherchopin
'Friends of Saul'! How cool is that? Kind of like 'Friends of Bill' ... or 'Friends of Dorothy'. grin


How cool is that?

Lets just say its cooler then cool...

smokin
Posted By: Mark_C Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/08/11 09:10 PM
(edit) Saul -- I misunderstood your question and gave an answer about my recital last month instead!
Let's see, my Chopin waltz 2 years ago -- that would have been at the Chopin competition in Warsaw.....I guess it was OK. smile
Posted By: MathTeacher Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/09/11 02:12 AM
Gees! What has happened to this thread??? I don't think I can discuss my situation anymore because the thread has gone off to another universe.
Posted By: Frozenicicles Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/09/11 02:28 AM
Originally Posted by MathTeacher
Gees! What has happened to this thread??? I don't think I can discuss my situation anymore because the thread has gone off to another universe.

You could. Many of us are still curious, and I daresay whatever you post will be better than whatever direction this was going.
Posted By: argerichfan Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/09/11 02:34 AM
Originally Posted by Mark_C
Originally Posted by chercherchopin
....'Friends of Dorothy'. grin

LOLOLOL!

(I had to google it......)

You had to google that, Mark? Well forgive me, but I thought -you know, living in NYC and such- you would have understood what that reference was about.

Posted By: Mark_C Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/09/11 02:37 AM
Originally Posted by argerichfan
.....I thought -you know, living in NYC and such- you would have understood what that reference was about.

In New York, I guess there's no need to use expressions that avoid the issue, we just tell it straight.
No pun intended of course. ha
Posted By: Damon Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/09/11 02:42 AM
Originally Posted by Mark_C
Originally Posted by chercherchopin
....'Friends of Dorothy'. grin

LOLOLOL!

(I had to google it......)


I had to google 'friends of Bill, too. confused
Posted By: cefinow Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/09/11 03:26 AM
Originally Posted by MathTeacher
Gees! What has happened to this thread??? I don't think I can discuss my situation anymore because the thread has gone off to another universe.


Wow he's back
Welcome to the new, un-improved thread, MathTeacher!
It went off to another universe because we thought you had gone off to another universe.
Posted By: gooddog Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/09/11 03:36 AM
Originally Posted by chercherchopin
'Friends of Saul'! How cool is that? Kind of like 'Friends of Bill' ... or 'Friends of Dorothy'. grin
Mark is not alone. I hate to admit it, but I thought it meant: people who liked the movie the Wizard of Oz. Live and learn.
Posted By: Canonie Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/09/11 12:21 PM
Originally Posted by thalbergmad
Originally Posted by MathTeacher
Incidentally, there is something very specific that I look for in women, which occurs in about 1 in 10,000, and she has it.


I fail to see how the ability to reverse into a car park space is essential in a relationship.

Thal

Hey I'm one in 10,000 laugh

The Reverser
Posted By: jlynne Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/09/11 07:24 PM
Well MathTeacher? Has she kicked you to the curb yet?

I don't really mean that as rudely as it sounds. People are complex, and I'm sure you have many fine qualities to bring to a relationship, but as other have noted, those qualities are not on display in this thread. If a relationship is what you really want, you should at least be aware of that fact. As a member of the 1 in 10,000 club myself (not only can I reverse park, I'm very tall), I have to say that your presentation here makes me want to practice flamenco on your fingers.
Posted By: David-G Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/09/11 08:36 PM
Originally Posted by MathTeacher
Gees! What has happened to this thread??? I don't think I can discuss my situation anymore because the thread has gone off to another universe.

Please do discuss it. It might pull the thread back into this universe, which would be very welcome.
Posted By: MathTeacher Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/09/11 09:02 PM
Originally Posted by David-G
Originally Posted by MathTeacher
Gees! What has happened to this thread??? I don't think I can discuss my situation anymore because the thread has gone off to another universe.

Please do discuss it. It might pull the thread back into this universe, which would be very welcome.


Well, I was going to yesterday when I logged on. But the newly found lunacy in this thread made me reconsider. I have no idea what the reaction would be now.
Posted By: BruceD Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/09/11 09:51 PM
Originally Posted by gooddog
Originally Posted by chercherchopin
'Friends of Saul'! How cool is that? Kind of like 'Friends of Bill' ... or 'Friends of Dorothy'. grin
Mark is not alone. I hate to admit it, but I thought it meant: people who liked the movie the Wizard of Oz. Live and learn.


... and I thought it referred to those who sat around the Algonquin Round Table with Dorothy Parker! Although that is one of the reputed sources of the phrase. As to its current implication : who knew? smile
Posted By: Damon Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/09/11 10:48 PM
Originally Posted by BruceD
Originally Posted by gooddog
Originally Posted by chercherchopin
'Friends of Saul'! How cool is that? Kind of like 'Friends of Bill' ... or 'Friends of Dorothy'. grin
Mark is not alone. I hate to admit it, but I thought it meant: people who liked the movie the Wizard of Oz. Live and learn.


... and I thought it referred to those who sat around the Algonquin Round Table with Dorothy Parker! Although that is one of the reputed sources of the phrase. As to its current implication : who knew? smile


Apparently Judy Garland is some sort of Icon for this. I'll have to Google for the reason why. laugh
Posted By: daviel Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/09/11 11:53 PM
Why would anybody ask a bunch of musicians for relationship advice?
Posted By: Pogorelich. Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/10/11 12:21 AM
Well, some of us are able to maintain both a relationship and a career in music.. So we may have some tips..
Posted By: Damon Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/10/11 02:45 AM
Originally Posted by daviel
Why would anybody ask a bunch of musicians for relationship advice?


No kidding!
Posted By: Mark_C Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/10/11 03:09 AM
Originally Posted by Damon
Originally Posted by daviel
Why would anybody ask a bunch of musicians for relationship advice?

No kidding!

Are you kidding? ha

It was very reasonable, considering who we have here. smile
Posted By: Damon Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/10/11 03:32 AM
Originally Posted by Mark_C
Originally Posted by Damon
Originally Posted by daviel
Why would anybody ask a bunch of musicians for relationship advice?

No kidding!

Are you kidding? ha

It was very reasonable, considering who we have here. smile


I agree that the last people on earth I would ask for dating advise are musicians, and I'm not kidding.

Who do we have here?
Posted By: Mark_C Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/10/11 03:57 AM
Originally Posted by Damon
.....Who do we have here?

Well that'll have to be our little secret. ha

But seriously folks.... smokin ....I'm invariably impressed at the wisdom and judgment shown in the discussions here like this one.

(OK, almost invariably.) smile
Posted By: MaryBee Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/11/11 02:03 PM
Originally Posted by MathTeacher
A proper relationship requires a lot of (undivided) attention per day, which I don't have unless I sacrifice my chess completely (which already makes me unhappy), and much of my piano time (the biggest sacrifice of all).
Maybe you should try getting a pet. It will provide companionship without putting too many demands on your time. My dog sits patiently by my piano while I play, and then when I have a free half hour, he's very happy to stop what he's doing and go for a walk with me. And he hardly ever tries to interrupt my practice time by talking to me.
Posted By: curlyfries Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/11/11 02:11 PM
I'm curious. Have you told this person they are one in 10,000?
Posted By: Pogorelich. Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/11/11 02:44 PM
Originally Posted by Damon
Originally Posted by Mark_C
Originally Posted by Damon
Originally Posted by daviel
Why would anybody ask a bunch of musicians for relationship advice?

No kidding!

Are you kidding? ha

It was very reasonable, considering who we have here. smile


I agree that the last people on earth I would ask for dating advise are musicians, and I'm not kidding.

Who do we have here?


I'm curious as to why you think that. Musicians belong to the more romantic group when it comes to love. And it's a musician's dilemma, asking to hear from a musician's perspective. So it's quite a good case.
Posted By: Monica K. Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/11/11 03:31 PM
Originally Posted by LindaR
I'm curious. Have you told this person they are one in 10,000?


I see where you're going with this, Linda, but in this particular case I'm not sure it would have the desired effect, as the 1 in 10,000 apparently refers strictly to her height.

Posted By: curlyfries Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/11/11 07:06 PM
I'm sorry to intrude then. I couldn't read this whole topic. There is an inauthenticness to this thread and I can't tell if this forum has a lot of joke threads or not. If it was me..I would just stay with piano and I would expect someone to tell me they are in pursuit of me for my height.
The Minchin youtube video sounds like Sting is singing background. Peace.
Posted By: Mark_C Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/11/11 07:17 PM
We do have a some stupid/joke threads, but this isn't one.
Posted By: cefinow Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/11/11 09:32 PM
Originally Posted by Monica K.
Originally Posted by LindaR
I'm curious. Have you told this person they are one in 10,000?


I see where you're going with this, Linda, but in this particular case I'm not sure it would have the desired effect, as the 1 in 10,000 apparently refers strictly to her height.



good grief, how tall is this girl... I see from MathTeacher's profile and email address that he is (presumably)6'4", and a girl would have to be 5'10" to be within half foot of his height... that's not a 1 in 10,000 rarity, is it? Unless he is attracted only to women who are *taller* than he is?
(whew... I almost put "only" in front of "attracted"... boy am I glad I caught that! wink ... sigh... oh never mind)
Posted By: Mark_C Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/12/11 01:33 AM
Originally Posted by cefinow
.....(whew... I almost put "only" in front of "attracted"... boy am I glad I caught that! wink ... sigh... oh never mind)

Cefinow: Not more than maybe 1 in 10,000 puts the "only" in the right place.

I guess that means you're 1 in 10,000! smile
Posted By: Rui725 Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/12/11 01:57 AM
with all do respect, but such small trifles such as height proportions are not holds a relationship together!

But I can understand that a tall girl would be much more suitable for you, but don't be blinded by it too! Of course, if yours and hers personality both are weird and demented (hahhah, j/k) then at least you're both physically adept to one another smile
Posted By: MarkH Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/12/11 02:34 AM
Originally Posted by cefinow

good grief, how tall is this girl... I see from MathTeacher's profile and email address that he is (presumably)6'4", and a girl would have to be 5'10" to be within half foot of his height... that's not a 1 in 10,000 rarity, is it? Unless he is attracted only to women who are *taller* than he is?
(whew... I almost put "only" in front of "attracted"... boy am I glad I caught that! wink ... sigh... oh never mind)


Since I'm taking an applied statistics class, I felt in the mood to do a little number crunching smile Using the values of 63.6 inches as the mean and 2.5 inches as the standard deviation for American female height, a 1 in 10,000 height comes in as 6 feet 1/2 inch. Of course, his 1/10,000 value may have been a guestimate...

As another 6'4" man, I must support Math Teacher and say that a beautiful 5'6" woman is fantastic, but a 6' beautiful woman is utterly spectacular. There's something psychologically exciting about being a man who is usually the tallest in a room who is confronted with a beautiful woman close to your own height. Maybe it's some sort of implied competition for dominance?

That being said, my girlfriend is a beautiful 5'7", and has many other rare traits that I deemed more important than holding out for that 1/10,000 height along with the other great traits. You gotta play the odds rather than waiting for your absolute ideal grin

Math Teacher, we really are interested in hearing how things have progressed!
Posted By: MathTeacher Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/12/11 03:17 AM
Originally Posted by MarkH
Originally Posted by cefinow

good grief, how tall is this girl... I see from MathTeacher's profile and email address that he is (presumably)6'4", and a girl would have to be 5'10" to be within half foot of his height... that's not a 1 in 10,000 rarity, is it? Unless he is attracted only to women who are *taller* than he is?
(whew... I almost put "only" in front of "attracted"... boy am I glad I caught that! wink ... sigh... oh never mind)


Since I'm taking an applied statistics class, I felt in the mood to do a little number crunching smile Using the values of 63.6 inches as the mean and 2.5 inches as the standard deviation for American female height, a 1 in 10,000 height comes in as 6 feet 1/2 inch. Of course, his 1/10,000 value may have been a guestimate...

As another 6'4" man, I must support Math Teacher and say that a beautiful 5'6" woman is fantastic, but a 6' beautiful woman is utterly spectacular. There's something psychologically exciting about being a man who is usually the tallest in a room who is confronted with a beautiful woman close to your own height. Maybe it's some sort of implied competition for dominance?

That being said, my girlfriend is a beautiful 5'7", and has many other rare traits that I deemed more important than holding out for that 1/10,000 height along with the other great traits. You gotta play the odds rather than waiting for your absolute ideal grin

Math Teacher, we really are interested in hearing how things have progressed!


She is 6'2". As some sanity has seem to poured back into this thread, I shall seek some more advice from you guys. I was wondering: do most of you automatically sit directly in front of the middle C key? I know where you sit depends on the piece you are playing, but is middle C your default position? It is mine, but sometimes I feel I should sit a key or two to the right of it (damn piano is not symmetric about middle C).

Oh ... the lady friend... Well, we have been on several dates now, and I still do think a lot about piano during quiet moments and how many practice hours I have lost. Reflecting the the many advice given, I have tried to break that habit, but it still shows. She has asked me several times if anything was wrong. She explicitly stated that often my behaviour is inconsistent with the time that I first asked her out. I had to make up some excuse, but I cannot make excuses forever. I have to eventually tell her the truth, that I often think about piano over her (have you seen me do that before?). Or I try to put her first before my piano, in which case if successful the truth will change. So I'm still struggling with myself.
Posted By: Lefty Chev Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/12/11 03:26 AM
Originally Posted by MathTeacher

Oh ... the lady friend... Well, we have been on several dates now, and I still do think a lot about piano during quiet moments and how many practice hours I have lost. Reflecting the the many advice given, I have tried to break that habit, but it still shows. She has asked me several times if anything was wrong. She explicitly stated that often my behaviour is inconsistent with the time that I first asked her out. I had to make up some excuse, but I cannot make excuses forever. I have to eventually tell her the truth, that I often think about piano over her (have you seen me do that before?). Or I try to put her first before my piano, in which case if successful the truth will change. So I'm still struggling with myself.


As interesting as I find this, an Internet forum may not really be the best place to find help. You seem to have some level of acceptance that there's some OCD going on here, and it's to the point that it's effecting the rest of your life. If you can't enjoy the company of a woman that you like because of a fear of your skills eroding, it may be a problem. If you really want help resolving this, your best bet is probably to go talk to someone who's job it is to help people sort things like this out.
Posted By: Mark_C Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/12/11 04:11 AM
Originally Posted by MathTeacher
....As some sanity has seem to poured back into this thread, I shall seek some more advice from you guys. I was wondering: do most of you automatically sit directly in front of the middle C key? I know where you sit depends on the piece you are playing, but is middle C your default position? It is mine, but sometimes I feel I should sit a key or two to the right of it (damn piano is not symmetric about middle C).....

Hey, whaddaya doin', hijacking your own thread? ha

But since you asked.....

I don't sit anywhere near there. The exact position depends on the piece, as you said, but very little. My default position is at the F above middle C. Sometimes it's half a key to the left of there.

And that's about it. smile

OK, who else.....(I've never wondered about this before, or asked, and I have no idea what other people do)
Posted By: Frozenicicles Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/12/11 04:22 AM
I sit in between the E and the F above middle C, since that is exactly the middle of the piano. My previous teacher taught me to sit there at our first lesson together and I've been sitting there ever since.
Posted By: Mark_C Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/12/11 04:24 AM
Originally Posted by Frozenicicles
I sit in between the E and the F above middle C, since that is exactly the middle of the piano. My previous teacher taught me to sit there at our first lesson together and I've been sitting there ever since.

Huh.....basically what I said too. I never realized it was "exactly the middle of the piano," nor that it might be considered the advisable thing.

I think I'm glad. smile

I wonder if anyone ever advised me to do this.....I don't think they did.
Posted By: shortstop Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/12/11 04:30 AM
Wow,
my keyboard measures 48.25" and 24.125" is, as you say, between the E and F!
Posted By: ando Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/12/11 04:56 AM
I'm a middle C man. Nobody ever talks about middle F or middle E and a half... wink
Posted By: BruceD Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/12/11 05:18 AM
Originally Posted by ando
I'm a middle C man. Nobody ever talks about middle F or middle E and a half... wink


Yes, but on a modern piano "middle C" is not in the middle, exactly, is it?
Posted By: theJourney Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/12/11 05:24 AM
Well, it is the middle(most) Cl; hence "Middle C" as opposed to "Highest C" or "Lowest C".
I don't recall anyone referring to it as "the point intersecting the exact middle of the piano ambitus at C."
Posted By: ando Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/12/11 06:09 AM
Originally Posted by theJourney
Well, it is the middle(most) Cl; hence "Middle C" as opposed to "Highest C" or "Lowest C".
I don't recall anyone referring to it as "the point intersecting the exact middle of the piano ambitus at C."


Yes, this.

Let's also not forget that until around the turn of the 20th century, it was more common for the piano to only reach a high A, rather than a high C - and in earlier periods, the range was more limited still. Modern portable keyboards come in 61, 73, 76 and 88 key variants, so it makes sense to use a certain key as a reference point rather than an arbitrary midpoint.

All this talk of the geometrical midpoint is rather irrelevant. A pianist will position oneself wherever it feels most central to the notes one normally plays. I think for most of the classical piano repertoire, middle C is pretty central. Most students begin with middle C and learn notes to either side of that - hence the tendency to see middle C as the central note. It's hardly a critical important point though. Sit where you please.

Finally, why the heck are we talking about this anyway?
Posted By: casinitaly Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/12/11 06:33 AM
I sit with middle C right in front of me. It was instinctive, not instructed, but never "corrected" smile

As for height issues, I have one friend who is 6'8" and his wife is 5'2". I have quite a few friends who are over 6' and they all seem to have short wives.

Posted By: theJourney Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/12/11 06:47 AM
That was an interesting short wive broadcast.
On average one can C that these couples are of middle height.
Posted By: Frozenicicles Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/12/11 06:48 AM
Maybe this subject deserves its own thread. I will start one and quote the responses so far as a sort of a 'poll', since my curiousity has been piqued (PW causes me to procrastinate way too much).
Posted By: MathTeacher Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/12/11 10:58 AM
The reason I have chosen middle C as my default sitting position is that most of the pieces I play are actually centered around middle C (in fact many pieces I play go as low as the first C note, but I almost never go as high as the C note on the other end, which is the second last C note). Don't you guys find that to be true? And, if true, isn't that the best reason to sit in front of middle C?
Posted By: MathTeacher Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 08/25/11 04:30 AM
Well, guys. She got rid of me because she couldn't tolerate me spending so much time with my piano.

But the good news is that now I have more practice time. Going to make up for lost time now.
Posted By: Mark_C Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 08/25/11 04:35 AM
If you mean that you and she were together (in some respect or another) for these 3+ months, it sounds like that's pretty good right there, although it's no surprise if you're not seeing it that way right now.....
Posted By: MathTeacher Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 08/25/11 04:47 AM
Originally Posted by Mark_C
If you mean that you and she were together (in some respect or another) for these 3+ months, it sounds like that's pretty good right there, although it's no surprise if you're not seeing it that way right now.....


I think a few days ago we had our 25th date, and our last. Someone in this thread said that I could make it past 10. Well you guys helped me make it possible, and I've learned a valuable lesson--my piano comes first.
Posted By: Mark_C Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 08/25/11 04:49 AM
Dunno what anyone else will think but that doesn't exactly sound like the best lesson to me. But for sure it's great that we can always have our piano.
Posted By: ando Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 08/25/11 05:31 AM
It's ok, I get the feeling you are very young anyway. There is time enough for for all that. It is easier to develop your technique at a younger age, so if you are motivated to push hard now, you should take advantage of that motivation. I've had talented students give up on their music because they were too preoccupied with their teenage relationship ups and downs. It's rarely something you'd be glad you did - unless you end up marrying them, I suppose. Give yourself time.
Posted By: Jose Hidalgo Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/21/12 05:59 AM
Hey MathTeacher,
I have a similar problem, reading this thread helped me understand that you can't ignore the things you like the most. Hopefully future piano students use the search tool like me and find some useful advices given at the beginning of this thread and the closure.

Conclusion: we can try but mostly it won't work...

I really hope you (and I) someday feel like enough and then have more time for other things like socializing

Sadly --joseche
Posted By: nocturne152 Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/21/12 06:25 AM
Originally Posted by MathTeacher
Incidentally, there is something very specific that I look for in women, which occurs in about 1 in 10,000, and she has it.



???
Posted By: Marzeline Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/21/12 11:58 AM
We live for people, not for ourselves. If you really care about her I think you will have to choose between piano and chess. One cannot have everythig he or she wants. For you it is a very difficult choice but imagine how many women resigned from their careers to have a family. You may not even notic when time passes by and what will be left is only emptiness that you lived your life only for yourself.
My uncle had the same problem. He resigned from love and now he is a miserable alone old man. I see him very often on the verge of crying whne he sees my sis having a baby, or when he meets his friends who have families.

But well it is up to you. There were some people who never wanted to be in any serious relationship because it would be incompatibile with life they led like Hermann Hesse.
Posted By: Carey Re: Relationship advice. Please help. - 05/21/12 02:16 PM
This thread is over a year old - and MathTeacher hasn't posted on PW since last November. grin
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