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Posted By: Andromaque International Chopin Competition - 10/02/10 02:13 AM
The Chopin competition is soon underway in Warzaw, with the first rounds apparently starting this weekend.
The list of participants(post preliminary eliminations) is posted on the competition website. I don't recognize many names with the exception of Claire Huangci, Evgeny Bozhanov (of recent Cliburn competition fame) and Mei-Ting Sun.

See list here

The jury this year includes Martha Argerich, Nelson Freire, Bella Davidovich, Nikolai Lugansky, Piotr Paleczny and Philippe Entremont, among others.

Do they webcast any of the rounds usually? I have not followed it closely in prior years.
Posted By: Satsuki Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/02/10 02:22 AM
wow, Martha Argerich is on the jury?
I'm excited for this year's competition!

On youtube, I'm able to find videos from past competitions, so maybe they'll post them up after.
Posted By: Capricorn Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/02/10 02:41 AM
I like how about 75% are Chinese, Japanese, and Korean.
Posted By: BruceD Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/02/10 02:44 AM
Originally Posted by Capricorn
I like how about 75% are Chinese, Japanese, and Korean.


?
Posted By: Pianaxo Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/02/10 02:52 AM
Who cares what race they are?

Anyone know if it's going to be streamed online?
Posted By: Ridicolosamente Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/02/10 02:53 AM
Originally Posted by Andromaque
I don't recognize many names with the exception of Claire Huangci, Evgeny Bozhanov (of recent Cliburn competition fame)...
Naomi Kudo was also a 2009 Cliburn contestant. Though I might be mistaken, I thought she was also a finalist at the 2005 Chopin... I guess you can re-enter?

I like that Lugansky is on the jury. His Chopin interpretations are superb and to my taste, (very romantic and expressive without gross rubato or sentimentalism.)

-Daniel
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/02/10 03:10 AM
I don't see the name Lugansky on the jury list.
http://konkurs.chopin.pl/en/edition/xvi/jury/info
Posted By: Pogorelich. Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/02/10 03:53 AM
Gilbert is an excellent excellent pianist!!!! I've heard him many times.
Posted By: Andromaque Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/02/10 05:19 AM
Originally Posted by LisztAddict
I don't see the name Lugansky on the jury list.
http://konkurs.chopin.pl/en/edition/xvi/jury/info


I looked here , but it may not be a very legitimate website as it seems to have ads..
Posted By: wr Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/02/10 08:43 AM
Somebody on their Facebook page asked whether it would be streamed live, and the response was that it would be.
Posted By: LimeFriday Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/02/10 09:50 AM
Originally Posted by Capricorn
I like how about 75% are Chinese, Japanese, and Korean.


I was thinking that it was a wonderful representation of pianists from around the world (except Africa :/)

I will be listening to the live streaming for sure!

Posted By: How you doing? Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/02/10 02:19 PM
Where can I find the live stream?!!!
Posted By: pianoloverus Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/02/10 03:11 PM
Originally Posted by BruceD
Originally Posted by Capricorn
I like how about 75% are Chinese, Japanese, and Korean.


?
I think it's very interesting and important how the face of piano playing has significantly changed fron 20-30 years ago. Do you know that at one time one could be arrested in China for playing the piano?
Posted By: Palindrome Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/02/10 03:32 PM
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
...Do you know that at one time one could be arrested in China for playing the piano?


Some people have told me that I ought to be, the way I play. frown
Posted By: wr Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/02/10 10:06 PM
I think that the live stream will be from Polish television. Here's their portal to their competition page and quite a lot of other things about Chopin. I am guessing (but it is only a guess) that the live stream will be found there, once it starts.
Posted By: Andromaque Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/02/10 10:10 PM
Originally Posted by wr
I think that the live stream will be from Polish television. Here's their portal to their competition page and quite a lot of other things about Chopin. I am guessing (but it is only a guess) that the live stream will be found there, once it starts.



That website has a scathing article about a concert by Pogorelich in Warzaw earlier this year.. Click on Ivo's pic..

Interesting how they still welcome and highlight Argerich despite her walking away from the jury once.
Posted By: MikeN Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/02/10 10:23 PM
Yea, I thought they would've banned bad girl Argerich.
Posted By: ChopinAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/02/10 10:34 PM
Well, I am certainly looking forward to the live streaming! smile
Posted By: pianoloverus Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/02/10 10:49 PM
Anyone know exactly if and when the live stream will start?
Posted By: dolce sfogato Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/02/10 10:50 PM
so sweet an sad at the same time, XXX
Posted By: ChopinAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/02/10 10:52 PM
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Anyone know exactly if and when the live stream will start?


I don't, but I hope someone will announce it here....
Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/02/10 11:30 PM
Originally Posted by Andromaque
Originally Posted by LisztAddict
I don't see the name Lugansky on the jury list.
http://konkurs.chopin.pl/en/edition/xvi/jury/info


I looked here , but it may not be a very legitimate website as it seems to have ads..


It is the only legitimate website as it is the official one. According to it Lugansky is not on the list.

Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Anyone know exactly if and when the live stream will start?


9:50 and then 16:50 local time being UTC+1 DST. It should be 1:50 and 8:50 UTC-6 (Central Time), and 3:50/10:50 UTC-8 (Pacific Time) accordingly.

Hopefuly I didn't mess up the calculations.


M.
Posted By: Andromaque Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/02/10 11:37 PM
Mati, which website are you referring to?? I am talking about the one you find when you click "here" in my post. Nikolai's name and picture are there.. Could you check it out please and let us know if this seems correct.. The truth may be in the polish version
Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/02/10 11:53 PM
Ah, sorry! I didn't notice your "here" link! I was referring to http://konkurs.chopin.pl website, which is the only official website for the competition. Yours seems like some kind of travel agency but has nothing to do with the competition authorities whatsoever.
Posted By: iampiano Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/03/10 12:17 AM
Can someone figure out how the video work here?

http://www.tvp.pl/kultura/muzyka-powazna/chopin-english/xvi-piano-competition

I (from US)cannot see any video here but people can watch it from Japan. It leads to the message saying there is fee you have to pay?!

Hopefully the official site will start free streaming.
Posted By: stores Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/03/10 02:31 AM
I get the same result no matter if I click on A's link, or M's link. Lugansky isn't listed anywhere that I see.
Posted By: Andromaque Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/03/10 02:42 AM
Click here


It may be an error though, since this is not the official website.. or may be NL withdrew..

recognize any of the participants??
Posted By: stores Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/03/10 02:48 AM
Originally Posted by Andromaque
Click here


It may be an error though, since this is not the official website.. or may be NL withdrew..

recognize any of the participants??


Ah, not seen that site before. By participants do you mean the jurists? If so, yes, I recognize almost all of them (though I'd forgotten that Bella once looked that young haha).
Posted By: Andromaque Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/03/10 03:02 AM
no I meant the contestants.

I recognized most of the jurists (at least by name) except for Kevin Kenner (and the polish ones)
Posted By: How you doing? Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/03/10 03:19 AM
I only recognized Claire Huangci and Evgeny Bozhanov.
Posted By: forresty Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/03/10 01:27 PM
http://www.polskafm.pl/radio/dwojka/pr-dwojka.html
audio stream. If it doesn't work in some cases click this green button "dwojka".

http://www.tvp.pl/kultura/muzyka-powazna/chopin
Video stream should be here but i can't see anything. maybe there will be something durning concert.

Competition is broadcasted by tvp Kultura in Poland. I dont know if there is any stream available outside Poland. I'll try to find something but in every cases additional polish proxy serven might be nedded
Posted By: Rui725 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/03/10 01:39 PM
Nocturne 62 no. 1 in B major seems to be a popular audition piece. Though, I could understand why.
Posted By: pianoloverus Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/03/10 02:13 PM
I havenlt been successful with any of the links posted so far.

Anyone know a correct link for the video or if there really is a live video? Is there an English version video?

Anyone know a schedule for the competition using Eastern Standard time in the US?

Thanks!
Posted By: Andromaque Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/03/10 02:43 PM
Poland runs on CET (Central European Time), which is GMT +2
The Eastern US is GMT -4

Therefore, well.. do the Math!! smile

The polish links do not work in the US or Canada according to the website referred to above..
Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/03/10 02:50 PM
Unfortunately Andromaque is right, there is no official stream (nor video archive) availbale for nor North nor South America. I don't know why, perhaps there must be some legal issues involved, but it's really sad. I personally believe that free global culture access is the way to go, but it rarely happens.

I will post immediately if I find a reasonable way to watch online in the U.S.


M.
Posted By: forresty Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/03/10 02:52 PM
http://www.polskieradio.pl/st/program2.asx

this is a direct link to official radio broadcaster. Copy and past it to Windows Media Player or any .asx player. If it doesn't work that means broadcast is restricted to area of Poland only but probably possible through some polish proxy server. Find and try

Video stream unfortunally will not be available in North and South America due copyright probably.
http://www.tvp.pl/kultura/muzyka-powazna/chopin
Yesterday i watched here Argerich/freire and today there was direct stream of competition but i don't know it be possible to watch it outside Poland
try through proxy servers. Sorry but it's not Premierleague or Superbowl and i can't find any alternative stream source

At least you can try here http://www.nina.gov.pl/en
Posted By: KawaiDon Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/03/10 03:55 PM
This site is working very well today (Sunday).

http://konkurs.chopin.pl/pl/edition/xvi/online/broadcasting
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/03/10 04:23 PM
Originally Posted by KawaiDon
This site is working very well today (Sunday).

http://konkurs.chopin.pl/pl/edition/xvi/online/broadcasting


Yes, it is. I just watched Eri Mantani played on a Shigeru Kawai.
Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/03/10 04:27 PM
I am glad you found some way to listen to these performances! By the way, are we going to discuss the performances, or rather not to not spoil the fun?


M.
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/03/10 04:32 PM
Oh sure! why not? laugh

I am watching Anke Pan playing right now.
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/03/10 04:51 PM
I think Anke Pan was very impressive with the 3 Etudes, but not quite as clean with the Chopin Ballade. Eri Mantani was technically flawless, but she played too safe like a good student.

By the way, I like this concert hall better than the one at the university! laugh
Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/03/10 04:55 PM
Your opinion is exactly what I wanted to say, Ms. Mantani did not move me, she was kind of boring compared to the others. I did not like the Ballade, though enjoyed all three Etudes very much in Ms. Pan's performances. I really enjoyed Mr. Trifonov and was quite fond of many moments of Ms. Nogami's playing, but her performances had some flaws that did not appeal to me.
Posted By: Pianaxo Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/03/10 05:01 PM
Did anyone catch Gilbert's audition?
Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/03/10 05:05 PM
A friend of mine, a pianist himself, in a brief conversation told me that Gilbert was really solid and worth watching, he also really enjoyed Kultyshev. Unfortunately, I wasn't at home at that time.
Posted By: Pianaxo Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/03/10 05:35 PM
I saw him in a couple of warm-up concerts and he was amazing. I'm sad I missed the real thing though!
Posted By: Andromaque Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/03/10 05:56 PM
Originally Posted by KawaiDon
This site is working very well today (Sunday).

http://konkurs.chopin.pl/pl/edition/xvi/online/broadcasting


It works indeed. Thanks.
I just watched Antoine de Grolee.. Beautiful!
Posted By: jazzyprof Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/03/10 06:04 PM
Just watched Antoine. His Ballade #4 was amazing!

What has impressed me most about this competition is that of the four pianists I've watched, each one has chosen a different piano: Steinway , Fazioli, Yamaha CFX, Shigeru Kawai.
Posted By: Andromaque Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/03/10 06:05 PM
I am just noticing the current competitor is playing on the Kawai. What was Antoine's piano??
Very interesting that they offer these choices..
Posted By: jazzyprof Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/03/10 06:09 PM
Antoine played the new Yamaha CFX. It seemed perfect for the ballade.
Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/03/10 06:10 PM
@jazzyprof: you are sure it was CF-X and not CFIIIs? I don't know if these are their pianos (Warsaw Philharmonic certainly do own a Yamaha, it was used many times before in the competitions) or provided by manufacturers especially for this event. I can't differentiate between this pianos by the looks, so it would be great to know for sure! smile

@Andromaque: Antoine was playing on a Yamaha.
Posted By: jazzyprof Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/03/10 06:22 PM
I'm fairly sure it's the CFX. It has that distinctive pointy edge when you view it from the side.
Posted By: Andromaque Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/03/10 06:47 PM
Thanks Mati and jazzy..

The jury will have a hard time since so many of these contestants are playing beautifully.. (it is a very limited repertoire though..)
Gilham is making the Steinway roar right now.. Great dynamic range!!
Posted By: MikeN Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/03/10 06:52 PM
Just listened to Kotaro Nagano. I liked his ballade. His large contrast and number of mannerisms made it very interesting, although I wish he would've came down during to make a few different climaxes instead of one long drawn out big climax. His etudes I didn't like so much. They seemed incoherent and it seemed I never could get a clear picture of what he was trying to say. His nocturne suffered, in my opinion, from the same long drawn out high points that seemed to go nowhere.

Of course, as always this is all IMHO.
Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/03/10 06:53 PM
You are right, Andromaque. Though the level varies a lot, even more than I expected.
Posted By: NuclearTide Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/03/10 07:27 PM
I thought Antoine's op. 10 no. 5 was great. Really fresh and lively. He got kind of nervous towards the end of the fourth ballade though; his hands were a bit shaky and you can tell he made a few mistakes. Still a really good performance.
Posted By: pianoloverus Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/03/10 07:36 PM
I thought there was a break in the competition until 17:00 Polish time(which i think is 5:00 pm Eastern time in the US)?

My video streaming stopped at 2:00 pm Eastern time.
Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/03/10 08:01 PM
There was a break until 17:00 Polish time. Right now, as I am writing this particular post, it is 22:00 here.
Posted By: pianoloverus Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/03/10 08:19 PM
So Polish time is eight hours ahead of Eastern time in the US?

Is anyone else not getting a video stream now? I went to the "working" link abd clicked on Transmisjia Online" but can no longer get the live video.
Posted By: Pianaxo Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/03/10 08:40 PM
All the performances are over for today aren't they?
Posted By: Rjt Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/03/10 08:50 PM
Yup... It's 22:50 in Poland right now, so I expect the contestants are in bed (or perhaps in the bar if not playing tomorrow).
Posted By: dolce sfogato Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/03/10 09:08 PM
smile
Posted By: pianoloverus Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/03/10 09:18 PM
Originally Posted by Rjt
Yup... It's 22:50 in Poland right now, so I expect the contestants are in bed (or perhaps in the bar if not playing tomorrow).
Well that explains why I can't get any video stream. smile
Posted By: Andromaque Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/03/10 10:23 PM
PLUS

Poland is 6 hours ahead of the US not 8. So 2 pm your time is 8 pm theirs. 8 pm is 20:00 in military time
Posted By: pianoloverus Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/03/10 10:38 PM
Originally Posted by Andromaque
PLUS

Poland is 6 hours ahead of the US not 8. So 2 pm your time is 8 pm theirs. 8 pm is 20:00 in military time
Thank you. I'll get this straight eventually.
Posted By: MikeN Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/03/10 10:45 PM
If my math is correct then the performances started at around 2am eastern standard time. Which means tomorrow they'll start while I'm asleep. cry
Posted By: wr Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/04/10 02:13 AM
Originally Posted by Andromaque
PLUS

Poland is 6 hours ahead of the US not 8. So 2 pm your time is 8 pm theirs. 8 pm is 20:00 in military time


I keep forgetting how many hours of time difference there is between places, so usually just go the easy route, which is to google "time" + "city name". As in "time Warsaw", which will tell you the local time in Warsaw. From that, it's easy to figure out how many hours difference there is between that place and where I am sitting.
Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/04/10 07:43 AM
For those having to calculate time differences, maybe I will be of little help. Today's auditions will start in a minute, it's 9:45 here.
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/04/10 08:49 AM
It's now 4:49 on USA east coast, and I am watching Hélène Tysman playing Chopin Nocturne.
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/04/10 08:54 AM
Only in preliminary and the hall is almost full.
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/04/10 08:55 AM
Hey, I know that announcer!!! laugh
Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/04/10 09:15 AM
Really?

// Anna Fedorova is now blowing my socks off - she's really beating the heck out of the piano in 25/10 etude laugh
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/04/10 09:19 AM
Anna Fedorova seems to play very well everything from Nocturne to Etudes and now Ballade. Oops! some wrong notes there. laugh
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/04/10 09:24 AM
That's an awesome performance!

Hey Mati, did I hear the interviewer spoke to Anna in Polish and she replied in English?
Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/04/10 09:33 AM
I missed that part, I went to the kitchen straight afterwards frown It's quite possible though.

Her performance was really, really solid - those wrong notes didn't take from it for me.
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/04/10 09:45 AM
I'd give that performance a vote for advancing into semi.

Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/04/10 09:47 AM
Me to. By the way, have you noticed there will be 4 rounds this year?

Side note: I am quite surprised that, considering the size of our forum, there is very little discussion on the subject.
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/04/10 09:52 AM
I wasn't too impressed with Leonora Armellini's performance. There wasn't enough energy.
Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/04/10 09:56 AM
I liked her 10/4 C# minor etude, even though the studio commentary was not very fond of it. Overall she was just relatively good, but nothing special.
Posted By: Andromaque Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/04/10 11:42 AM
Mati
What do they discuss after the performances?? do they comment specifically on the contestants' playing?

They are really going at it right now smile

CLaire Huangci starting
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/04/10 11:44 AM
Claire Huangci starts with 10/2.

I think she was very good, but not amazing. There is something about the interpretation that didn't quite move me.


I wish I can understand what the commentators say about the 10/5.
Posted By: Andromaque Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/04/10 12:06 PM
I felt the same way about Huangci. I am not listening with very good speakers but I also did not like her sound esp. in the ballade. Very little singing.. the piano , imo , did not sound terrific for her (yamaha)
Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/04/10 12:13 PM

Originally Posted by Andromaque
Mati
What do they discuss after the performances?? do they comment specifically on the contestants' playing?

They are really going at it right now smile


For the most part - yes, but they try not to get too technical in their comments so the broader audience can understand their points. They often try to explain what they liked or disliked in the very descriptive way.

Things often mentioned are left/right hand balance, legato playing, dynamic contrast, quality of sound (often commented alongside the choice of a particular piano for the performance), control, the amount of emotion (and sometimes overexpressing it) shown.

Sometimes they play back again the same piece played by two pianists to comment and contrast the interpretations and talk about strong points of each.

Unfortunately just before Claire I had a guest and I didn't listen much, but I catched up while they commented on Fei-Fei Dong. She was compared to a lovely little bird singing beautifully with joy and charm.

Right now, Claire has just finished.

To give you a glimpse, some comments from the studio after the performances I am listening to right now:

Claire: quite cold, they didn't like the lyrical parts, saying they were too metronomic. They wondered whether Chopin is her favourite composer and wished they could hear her in Bartok or Prokofiev. For them the etudes were the best, being technically well executed, but lacked emotional depth and musicality a bit.

Then they commented on 10/5 etude by Katada and Huangci commenting on the use of rubato, exposing the left hand theme and charm found in Katada's performance not found in Huangci's playing.

After that they commented on Fantasie in F minor by Katada, that she didn't quite feel the phrases and the theme movement which exposed the steady "mechanical" rhythm of left hand chords not well balanced with right hand melody that should grasp the heart diverting the mind from this rhytmical monotony. After all they complimented on her playing saying that she had many interesting ideas in this piece and that she has great potential.

After all they loved Fei-Fei Dong audition the most, pointing out the textual error in the Scherzo saying it was surely due to great emotion put into this piece. They clearly said it couldn't have been a pure technical error. "Technical perfection is not the goal, it's just a path to attain a goal", mentioning that the emotions evoked in the listener are the most important thing in music making, even when some slips can happen and wondering how the jury will think of this particular mistake.
Posted By: Andromaque Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/04/10 12:25 PM
Mati
You are very sweet. Thanks very much for taking the time to write all that down. Very interesting.
I had a feeling that they comment a bit more liberally and specifically than we are accustomed to here. Are the discussants pianists or other musicians? well-known in Poland?
I think the organization is doing a great job so far.
Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/04/10 12:31 PM
For the most part they are piano teachers from our conservatoires, but I can't say I know them well. I believe at least some of them have some kind of concert career, but not big enough to be heard of by a guy like me.

The hosts (sitting at the left side of the table) are tv or radio journalists specialized in music.


M.
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/04/10 12:55 PM
So far, it seems that we all draw the same conclusion about each contestants as the commentators do.
Posted By: vladimiroir Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/04/10 02:02 PM
Is there a post made for the 2005 international chopin competition like this?
Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/04/10 03:09 PM
Da Sol Kim is playing some fierce etudes right now - the first audition in the afternoon session.
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/04/10 03:28 PM
That was one of the best Chopin Ballade No 4 performances I've ever heard.
Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/04/10 03:37 PM
I enjoyed it a lot too. He showed great passion, dynamic contrast and easy to follow direction in his very coherent interpretation. That's why I'm even more curious what the commentators meant saying he had great technical ability and the performace was top notch, but they found several pianistic flaws in his interpretation. They are going to discuss it during the break, I will try to do a short transcript and post it here.
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/04/10 03:51 PM
This scherzo no 4 is a really weird piece. laugh
Posted By: jazzyprof Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/04/10 03:56 PM
Originally Posted by LisztAddict
This scherzo no 4 is a really weird piece. laugh
It sure is! And Ms Ann doesn't seem to understand the piece.
Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/04/10 04:45 PM
Playing aside, I LITERALLY HATE LIVE TRANSLATION of interviews. I really wish they have left the English original untouched. What this guy is trying to say is totally distorted, but I had trouble listening to her speaking underneath.
Posted By: Rui725 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/04/10 04:53 PM
lol, where did the sound go??

Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/04/10 04:55 PM
Mati - or they should hire you to be the English-Polish translator. smile
Posted By: cscl Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/04/10 04:56 PM
I'm watching the links here right now:

Chopin Competition Streaming Broadcast
Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/04/10 05:01 PM
I wouldn't resist ;-) But honestly, they should hire someone who is not hesitating how to translate the word "piece" o_O
Posted By: pianoloverus Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/04/10 05:25 PM
Is there any easy way to fix the constant stopping/pausing/starting of the video stream followed by the white circle? It's much worse for me now than last night.
Posted By: pianoloverus Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/04/10 05:36 PM
Mei Ting Sun gave Pfeffer a big hug after his performance. Does anyone know if Sun is considered one of the favorites?
Posted By: Rui725 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/04/10 05:37 PM
That piano bench is awesome.
Posted By: pianoloverus Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/04/10 05:53 PM
It would be interesting to know how many pianists chose each different piano. But maybe this kind of poll would be much easier in a later round.

So far I have seen a Yamaha CFX, Shigeru Kawai, and Hamburg Steinway(don't know if there's more than one of these to choose). Anyone see any other instuments?
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/04/10 05:56 PM
Originally Posted by Rui725
That piano bench is awesome.


Yeah, I like those hydraulic benches too. You don't have to turn the knob forever like with a standard bench.
Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/04/10 05:57 PM
There is a Fazioli as well, and that sums up the choices.
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/04/10 05:59 PM
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Anyone see any other instuments?


One contestant chose Fazioli yesterday.
Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/04/10 06:02 PM
Steinway 50
Kawai 10
Yamaha 11
Fazioli 5
Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/04/10 06:27 PM
Pawel Wakarecy's performance was really mediocre frown I had high hopes for him after hearing good things about his playing. I wonder whether he was that nervous.
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/04/10 06:43 PM
The pressure of competition can certainly turn one upside down.
Posted By: Rjt Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/04/10 06:49 PM
Just finished watching Yaron Kohlberg. What a great competition. It's a shame it's only every 5 years.
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/05/10 08:24 AM
That was a very fast and furious ballade no 3. laugh
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/05/10 08:35 AM
It looks to me that Joanna Rozewska has very short fingers.
Posted By: ChopinAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/05/10 08:49 AM
Originally Posted by LisztAddict
It looks to me that Joanna Rozewska has very short fingers.


This gives me hope... smile
Posted By: ChopinAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/05/10 08:51 AM
Is there an age limit or is it open to everyone?
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/05/10 08:55 AM
Something like 17 to 27.
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/05/10 08:56 AM
Yuma Osaki has no singing tone. She plays too much on the surface.


The same ballade no 1, and it's quite a contrast between Rozewska and Osaki.
Posted By: ChopinAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/05/10 09:03 AM
Originally Posted by LisztAddict
Something like 17 to 27.


Really? I thought the first two contestants were both older, maybe around 30... Then again I never guess age...
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/05/10 09:26 AM
Whoa! I don't like Evgeny Bozhanov performance of the Etude 10/5 at all. I can barely hear the right hand.
Posted By: ChopinAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/05/10 10:00 AM
A pity I don't understand the comments in Polish... frown
Posted By: Rui725 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/05/10 10:45 AM
Is this the first Ballade in F-minor audition?

Edit: OK, we all know who Rachel's favorite pianist is..
Posted By: vladimiroir Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/05/10 10:46 AM
isnt the age range 18 until 25?
Posted By: Andromaque Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/05/10 10:53 AM
has bozhanov played yet? Just tuning in
Posted By: Rui725 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/05/10 10:56 AM
Originally Posted by Andromaque
has bozhanov played yet? Just tuning in


You just missed him, Ishay Shaer (Izrael) is playing now.
Posted By: Andromaque Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/05/10 11:01 AM
how was he (bozhanov)?
not liking what I hear so far from Shaer
Posted By: ChopinAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/05/10 11:05 AM
I have just found this:
As a rule, the age of the participants varies from 18 to 29, although it has differed during individual events owing to changes in the criteria for entry. Taking into account all past Competitions, the youngest participant was 16 and the oldest 32 years of age.
Posted By: Rui725 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/05/10 11:40 AM
I want to see a Fazioli audition real bad.
Posted By: Rui725 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/05/10 11:47 AM
Anyone else feel Masson just banged the keys on the Ballade?
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/05/10 12:09 PM
Originally Posted by Andromaque
how was he (bozhanov)?


Overall, I'd say his interpretation was just good, but not great.
Posted By: Andromaque Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/05/10 12:27 PM
Thanks LA.

Rui
Two competitors will play a Fazioli today, an Italian woman (Veneziano) and a Japanese guy. Start tuning in by 7:30 pm Poland time, 1730 GMT (that is 1:30 pm US Eastern time PLUS smile )
Posted By: Rui725 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/05/10 12:31 PM
Thanks Andromaque for the exact time, though. that would 1:30 am for me....
Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/05/10 02:56 PM
Tune in for the next auditions session! smile There was a lovely fragment when pianists were asked what do they think of Chopin, how important is he for them. A girl replied "Asking me who Chopin is to me is just like asking who my mother is to me".
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/05/10 03:28 PM
Originally Posted by Mati
A girl replied "Asking me who Chopin is to me is just like asking who my mother is to me".


That's a very good reply. laugh
Posted By: Butters109 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/05/10 03:54 PM
That was a very boring op 10 no 3 smirk.
Posted By: jazzyprof Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/05/10 04:19 PM
Originally Posted by Butters109
That was a very boring op 10 no 3 smirk.

I agree...very low energy. smile
The guy playing now, Bo HU (China) is exhibiting some real artistry...I think.
Posted By: izaldu Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/05/10 04:27 PM
yes, watching Bo Hu at the moment ...he definitely has a personal taste. but overall , i quite like him so far..
Posted By: ConcertEtudes Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/05/10 04:29 PM
Does anyone find Bo HU's playing too clean? I mean in the Nocturne and Scherzo I can distinctively hear every note even in the left hand accompaniment, when it’s supposed be adding color to the music under pedal. (or am I just talking rubbish here blush)
Posted By: Opus_Maximus Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/05/10 04:34 PM
Originally Posted by ConcertEtudes
Does anyone find Bo HU's playing too clean? I mean in the Nocturne and Scherzo I can distinctively hear every note even in the left hand accompaniment, when it’s supposed be adding color to the music under pedal. (or am I just talking rubbish here blush)


Yes
Posted By: izaldu Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/05/10 04:35 PM
yes sometimes left hand is a bit louder and sometimes even cleaner than right. but i thought his interpretations of the etude and scherzo were brave. anyway best for me was the nocturne. he really produced a beatiful sound there.
Posted By: opus119 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/05/10 04:44 PM
Mati -

if you are watching, could you please share with us an idea of what the commentators are saying? I sure wish I understood Polish!

Posted By: Bech Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/05/10 04:48 PM
Originally Posted by Capricorn
I like how about 75% are Chinese, Japanese, and Korean.


Does that tell us something about self-discipline/commitment fostered by these societies?

I don't care what nationality. May the best win.

Bech
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/05/10 05:11 PM
Competition is back in progress!

Fazioli piano is next.
Posted By: Rui725 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/05/10 05:43 PM
Originally Posted by LisztAddict
Competition is back in progress!

Fazioli piano is next.


Oh yeah! just in time for the Scherzo.
Posted By: Rjt Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/05/10 05:47 PM
The Fazioli piano sounds great. It seems to have a lovely clear and resonant bass to my ears (streaming over the Internet is never going to be very good though)
Posted By: Rui725 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/05/10 06:02 PM
The sound recording set up is the same for every piano, so I think it gives a chance to really show the contrasts between these top tier models. Though, of course, pianists makes a difference, but nevertheless, these are still cream of the crop. I enjoyed the Fazioli.
Posted By: Rjt Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/05/10 06:05 PM
Oh, and I thought Irene Veneziano was really great. She plays with lots of light and shade - I found it captivating. I also liked the pieces she chose.
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/05/10 06:06 PM
Earlier today, 2 contestants played on the same piano, the same piece, and it was a world of difference in sounds they created.
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/05/10 06:07 PM
Originally Posted by Rjt
Oh, and I thought Irene Veneziano was really great. She plays with lots of light and shade - I found it captivating.


I agree.
I'm jumping into this for the very first time, and I'm watching someone play Op. 10 No. 2 etude and the F minor fantasy. Is this happening right now, or is this previous footage? And who's the pianist?
Posted By: Andromaque Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/05/10 06:14 PM
Nikolai khozyainov, Live
Posted By: Andromaque Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/05/10 06:14 PM
Loved Veneziano too.
Posted By: Rjt Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/05/10 06:16 PM
Yup, and he's not a patch on Irene imo.

The next guy is using the Fazioli piano as well. It will be interesting to compare.
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/05/10 06:18 PM
I must say I really like Nikolai khozyainov so far.
Originally Posted by Andromaque
Nikolai khozyainov, Live
Thanks. What do you think of his playing of the fantasy? I don't know how to critique artists at this level, but I'm liking what I hear.

EDIT: Apparently the audience liked him, because they clapped for a long time!
Posted By: Andromaque Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/05/10 06:25 PM
Nikolai khozyainov: the best so far!!
Posted By: Rjt Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/05/10 06:25 PM
They are all amazingly talented and far better than me (of course). However at this level you are looking for more than technique or flawless execution. In my view the best players convey a passion and emotion that makes the music come alive - magic almost.
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/05/10 06:26 PM
Nikolai Khozyainov is VERY GOOD.
Posted By: opus119 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/05/10 06:27 PM
I am loving Nikolai. He is definitely a cut above many I saw and heard today.
Posted By: Rjt Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/05/10 06:28 PM
Originally Posted by Andromaque
Nikolai khozyainov: the best so far!!


Really? He didn't do much for me. However I speak a little Polish and it seems the commentators are very impressed - so I must be in the minority on this one!
Posted By: Andromaque Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/05/10 06:29 PM
Khozyainov: stunning talent (OK and he must REALLY practice and he probably has a scary russian teacher) . Kid is only 18!!
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/05/10 06:29 PM
Originally Posted by opus119
He is definitely a cut above many I saw and heard today.


Yes, a clear cut above.
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/05/10 06:31 PM
Originally Posted by Andromaque
.......he probably has a scary russian teacher


and scary parents that push him to practice 12-14 hours/day. laugh
Posted By: Andromaque Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/05/10 06:37 PM
Originally Posted by LisztAddict
Originally Posted by Andromaque
.......he probably has a scary russian teacher


and scary parents that push him to practice 12-14 hours/day. laugh


..and check it out: It worked!! laugh
Yuri Watanabe sounds great, but the Op. 25/11 etude (Winter Wind) is definitely not one of my favorites... But past that, it sounds great.

EDIT: Scherzo 3 is one of my favs, though. laugh And it sounds wonderful!
Posted By: Rjt Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/05/10 06:47 PM
I'm enjoying Yuri too. The Fazioli also sounds great. It's amazing to see her play blindingly fast passages with her small hands - amazing.
Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/05/10 07:27 PM
Originally Posted by opus119
Mati -

if you are watching, could you please share with us an idea of what the commentators are saying? I sure wish I understood Polish!



No, I wasn't. But I had it recorded and am watching right now. I will do the transcripts as it goes.


M.
Posted By: ChopinAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/05/10 07:30 PM
Originally Posted by Mati
Originally Posted by opus119
Mati -

if you are watching, could you please share with us an idea of what the commentators are saying? I sure wish I understood Polish!



No, I wasn't. But I had it recorded and am watching right now. I will do the transcripts as it goes.


M.


Thanks!

I look forward to this evening! Unfortunately I missed the concerts in the middle of the night here... frown
Posted By: forresty Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/05/10 08:29 PM
Comentators were impressed by performance of this young russian boy. That older Lady in the studio (pupil of arturo Michelangeli) said he was playing in the best manner of old soviet school. she was impressed that such young boy can play so mature, so calm and so wise.
She was very severe with other performances. barcarole of this girl frrom Australia was described as "she never was in venice probably. It was terribly". Etudes as well. She always critisized a man from Switzerland (ballade without a taste and idea) and performance of Bo Hu (not this level, not this competition, omelettes from piano). Comentators are also not impressed by performance of polish pianist.
Other view had Kacper Miklaszewski (radio commentator)- he said young rusian has to learn a lot yet and russian scholl is not what is the best in Chopin. To strong underline of melodic line causes breaking of the whole structure

This is it what i can recall from memory . Sorry for my English. Generally they were very impressed by this young boy. great future before him
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/05/10 08:51 PM
Thank you forresty for a little insight from the commentary table.
I wonder which Polish pianist they were talking about. I really like the performance by Joanna Rozewska, but I did not get to hear Fares Marek Basmadji.

I think Nicolay Khozyainov was absolutely amazing.
Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/05/10 08:54 PM
Comments from the middle section, after 4 performances. The older lady, Mrs Kozubek, was really harsh on them.

(overall)
Each of them has good moments and those that not yet well polished. The most mature and close to Chopin's aeshetics (simplicity is the prime goal) was Shadrin.
(Jiayi Sun - nocturne)
It wasn't the ideal, not too close to the composer's intentions. Third part of the Nocturne too thick, where doppio movimento is marked. The melody is not brought up, while it should as it is a repetition. Not much nostalgy and melancholy, nor bel canto beauty, which should be pronounced. This Nocturne is march-like, very dramatic, it was too freestyle for her.
(Jiayi Sun - scherzo)
The drama of scherzo cannot be built with forte, heavy left hand and too much accentuation. Melody wasn't well shown, neither the balance of legato and phrasing was well managed.
(Bo Hu - scherzo)
Not much suspense and anticipation evoked with his playing. Progressions going up the keyboard were all at the same volume level, he didn't counter with his technique for the shorter strings at high end to manage the volume. He didn't have maturity in his view of this piece, he lacked knowledge.
(Hannah Sun - Nocturne)
Too split into small parts, it was hard to feel the long musical themes and ideas. In the score there is "andante" and "dolce legato", which they coulnd't hear in her performance.
(Hannah Sun - Barcarole)
The water in this canal must have been heck stormy! What is the point of interpretation? For many it seems to be only slowing down or accelerating, without bringing to attention important notes, building the anticipation and managing relaxation from the climax points. Barcarole of the Russian guy much simplier and much more normal. "Noone will fall out from the gondola!"
(Yuri Shadrin - Etude 10/12)
"Miracle! He plays just like me!". Very well exposed first phrase, with quieter response. True 16th notes, not sounding like triplets or 32ths (in the right hand). Also in the right hand the chordal stretto maintained, as stated in the score, whereas - as she said - most people play ritenuto, incorrectly. "He is very well taught. He knows his thing. He CAN READ THE SCORE."

They said he is a very mature pianist.
Posted By: ChopinAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/05/10 09:03 PM
Thanks, forresty. Unfortunately I didn't get to listen to Nicolay. frown
Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/05/10 10:31 PM
After the performances:

(Schwizbegel-Wang Ballade)
When it comes to the Ballade, lacks siciliana style. The jump to the chords and octaves was too abrupt and brutal, too little control, especially in forte.
(Schwizbegel-Wang Etude)
He was really trying to play the octaves legato, which is a great advantage. He's a very interesting pianist. One of the commentators loved 10/4 saying that all musical planes were beautiful and with great balance with melody line.
(Veneziano)
"It bothers me why the teachings of Michelangeli, the greatest Italian pianist, is not really used in Italy anymore - there is no prophet in own country?". Great temperament, but not enough technical skills which are a must in this competition and these pieces. Not yet ready.
(Khozayinov)
So young artists with so in-depth understanding of Chopin's music are in great demand on the competition. They were blown away. He represents the best tradition of Russian pianistic and chopinistic school. He beautufilly understands his music and could be a role model for many older pianists. His performances were perfectly logical with maintained continuity, they say he understands - not only feels - what he is playing.

On the contrary, the radio commentator Maklaszewski disagrees, saying he didn't like his performances. He says that this young boy shows the Moscow school, which is bad example of Chopin playing, because the accompaniment is not pronounced enough, hence hiding the beautiful texture Chopin used throughout, not only in the melody. Apparently, the audience disagrees - and so do the studio commentators, who said "While we respect his opinion, we have to completely disagree. His school was GOOD. Really GOOD."

------

Unfortunately my recording ended abruptly, I miscalculated the timing. If there was anything more (and I am sure there was), I haven't seen it frown
Posted By: opus119 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/05/10 11:01 PM
Thanks so much for the details.

I tend to agree with most of what they said. I liked Veneziano's spunk and agility, but I realized early-on that she would probably not advance just because her playing was sloppy (don't get me wrong...if I could play 1/4 as clean as she did, I'd be in piano heaven...but this is a competition and sloppy playing just won't cut it). Also, I kept waiting for something more profound and it didn't happen. She's a very talented performer and likeable personality.

S-Wang impressed me. I thought his "Cello Etude" was extremely well thought-out and performed beautifully. He is an artist in the making - lots of potential but still not quite there.

Of everyone I had the privilege of watching today, the two Russians stood out. Both of them showed such maturity and attention to detail. Khozayinov, at only 18 years, reminds me somewhat of Kissin (love his hair...) and even a petite young Cliburn. (Can I use "petite" when describing a guy?) All in all...enjoyable morning spent and gladly avoiding important housework, gardening, paperwork, practicing, etc.
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/05/10 11:13 PM
Thanks to Mati, our official PW Polish-English translator! smile

These commentators are really tough!!! but it's fun to see them being so direct and just say whatever the way they see/hear it.
Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 12:37 AM
The dark-haired lady, Alicja Paleta-Bugaj, is very kind and restrained when speaking about sloppy performances. She's constantly admitting that she has great respect for courage and skills of these young people (she's currently the head of Piano Department of Warsaw Music University). The blond older lady (Lidia Kozubek), on the other hand, was extremely direct and often extremely harsh in her comments. She had very demanding and critiqued even the smallest flaws.

I am not sure I liked it - it is a great stress to participate in such a competition. It must be painful to hear such comments issued after giving the best performances they could.

By the way, I have found that lady playing piano herself - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LF-0gG72u_Q - take a listen!
Posted By: Andromaque Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 12:57 AM
forresty, Mati
Many Thanks..

Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 03:22 AM
Originally Posted by Mati
The dark-haired lady, Alicja Paleta-Bugaj, is very kind and restrained when speaking about sloppy performances.

Honestly, I did not understand anything they said except a few words here and there, but I could tell the lady in the middle was not so outspoken as the other 2. That's just from the way I look at the person face and the tone of their voice.


Originally Posted by Mati
I am not sure I liked it - it is a great stress to participate in such a competition. It must be painful to hear such comments issued after giving the best performances they could.

Oh, I am sure none of the contestants like to hear any harsh critique.


Originally Posted by Mati
By the way, I have found that lady playing piano herself - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LF-0gG72u_Q - take a listen!

I can only say "interesting" laugh
Posted By: vladimiroir Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 04:17 AM
is nicolay khozyainov the only pianist to reappear on stage for three times?
Posted By: pianist87 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 04:40 AM
Mati, thank you for the translations of those commentaries. I can't watch the live broadcast because I'm in school the whole day, and it is very interesting to read these posts. But that's a lot of harsh criticism.. I wouldn't want to read those comments if I were the performer.

I know Esther Park and Xin Tong back from my Juilliard Pre-College days. Xin Tong was amazing back then, and I imagine he would have matured more over the past 6-7 years, so I'm really eager to listen to his performance and very curious if he would make the finals.

It must feel amazing and also very nerve wrecking to be heard by so many people all over the world.
Posted By: ChopinAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 05:44 AM
bump
Posted By: Mostly Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 08:07 AM
Thank you fot translating, Mati - please keep it up ! smile
Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 08:39 AM
I will try smile I have a recording set up when I am away from home, so I hope not to miss anything.
Posted By: izaldu Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 08:59 AM
Thanks a lot, Mati.

I think that lady should learn some manners.
Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 09:09 AM
I agree. She had very appropriate criticizm technically and pianistically speaking, but I believe it shouldn't be issued during the public commentary during the competition in that tone. It would be much more appropriate during one-on-one masterclass.
Posted By: Rui725 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 09:51 AM
Every competition needs a simon cowell.
Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 10:13 AM
Commentary:

(Denis Evstuhin)
Very noble playing, though some charisma is lacking. Many performances were simply stunning. In C# minor etude the interpretation was sad and grave-like, whereas Kaoru Jitsukawa showed passion, lust and great deal of emotion. There was not enough Chopin nostalgy in the sound. However, he plays the octaves truly legato (he has big hand which makes it easier for him), beautifully showing inner voices. In the scherzo he showed marvelous narration and singing character of the piece. He well presented all voices and differentiated the repetitions making them more interesting.
(Nakhapetov)
Stream failed for me. frown
(Julian Zhi Chao Jia)
10/4 was fast, but due to well presented narration and clarity it felt slower than it really was. His sound is clearly the result of his ability. Beautiful inner voice in the A minor etude, especially the first finger of the left hand - he showed that voice beautifully, not only concentrating on the chromatics in 3, 4 and 5th finger. In other pieces a bit scholastic and rigid.
(Kaoru)
He thinks at the keyboard, clearly knows what he wants to achieve. Long, lush phrases. Music full of passion and emotion. Not only his face shows that he is very engagaed in the performance, but also his sound and expression. He was really captivated and his playing was full of harmony. He listens to himself and adjusts his sound according to the acoustics of the hall. Very interesting pauses and well thought fermatas in Fantaisie finale.
Posted By: ChopinAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 10:39 AM
You are doing a fantastic job, Mati!
Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 10:59 AM
Is it only me, or is Ms. Khachatryan forcing the sound a bit too much in the ballade? I am not really fond of this sound quality. I am watching her carefuly, as she is the sister of one of my favourite violinists smile
Posted By: ChopinAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 11:27 AM
I tend to agree with you, it sounded a little bit forced to me too...
Posted By: Theowne Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 11:30 AM
It sure is interesting to hear that kind of blunt criticism from the commentators, particularly after the Cliburn experience. Well, I'm sure I would not like it if I were a performer there, pouring my heart out....but from the bleachers, it's interesting...
Posted By: Rui725 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 11:34 AM
After listening to Kaoru, I went on Youtube and listened to Ivo Pogolerich's ballade during the 1980 competition. Did anyone also think Kaoru's playing style held some similarities? A rather heart felt interpretation.
Posted By: izaldu Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 12:03 PM
Originally Posted by Mati
I agree. She had very appropriate criticizm technically and pianistically speaking, but I believe it shouldn't be issued during the public commentary during the competition in that tone. It would be much more appropriate during one-on-one masterclass.


You beat me to it - +10000

I wonder in how many cases this kind of "ruthless" teacher has been counterproductive.
Posted By: Andromaque Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 02:05 PM
For those interested, the Chopin competition issues a daily "newspaper" that can be read online and that has intersting comments about the ocmpetition (in polish and in English). Click on the left hand menu at the main page ("Competition newspaper").

Competition page

Also, Emma Baker at Gramophone has a blog about the competition:

Blog

Posted By: jazzyprof Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 03:37 PM
Hmm, Mei-Ting Sun seemed a little tight to me in the etudes.
Posted By: Andromaque Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 03:39 PM
I am hearing rubatos maximus now..
Posted By: Victor25 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 03:42 PM
I liked the scherzo, but a little more fire would have been nice. I'm not to font of this current guy (USA)

Also it seems to me that Yamaha is quite bass heavy :|
Posted By: timmyab Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 03:43 PM
I thought he was a bit tight to begin with but I rather like his playing as he's warmed up.Wasn't overly impressed with Madoka Fukami.
Posted By: Mostly Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 03:44 PM
Originally Posted by Andromaque
I am hearing rubatos maximus now..

Indeed, I don't think he'll get away with it...
Posted By: Victor25 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 03:45 PM
Haha the ending of this ballad is so much fun. It is always like a post-scriptum where he sais, and thats how it is. haha
Posted By: pianovirus Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 03:56 PM
I loved Mei-Ting Sun's playing!

Yes, lots of rubato (as others say); yes, ultra-individual ultra-expressive playing...this is not your Pollini reference recording style of course, but so thrilling to hear (for me at least).

Nice voicing, with attention to side voices. Round, powerful but never harsh tone. 10/1 loved it a lot, also the attention to the chorale-like bass line. 10/2 in some spots appeared to me tiny lacks of clarity (not sure, may be my equipment), 10/3 loved it loved it (prominent wrong note in the melody slow part??), and so the Ballade (coda so powerful).

I'd love to hear what the critics said about him. Thanks a lot to the translators, Mati&co!!!
Posted By: Andromaque Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 03:58 PM
Teh Ballade got much much better (to my taste) towards teh end. He plays charismatically and with an individual style. But the competition is really stiff and rubato is not "in"
Posted By: Mostly Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 04:02 PM
Originally Posted by pianovirus
10/3 loved it loved it (prominent wrong note in the melody slow part??),

Yes, I was thinking on the fact that he played with his eyes closed when it happened... I'm amazed he managed to resume playing almost flawlessly. Still, I don't know how they judge such glaring mistakes on the melodic line, in a melody focused etude as this one...
I liked his playing overall, but the rubato was definitly too much - even had it not been Chopin. Well, you could say he took some risk - some of the performance aren't really interesting because they play really safe, interpretation wise. Then again, I have no clue how the judges handle those matters. Would love to know what criteras they base their verdict on.
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 04:08 PM
Originally Posted by pianovirus
10/3 loved it loved it (prominent wrong note in the melody slow part??)


I think he played from some rare, little-known score. I heard he played those strange notes before. Not a good idea to play that in a competition.

Overall, I think Mei-Ting Sun did pretty good, but I am afraid it was not a super strong performance in this competition.
Posted By: Victor25 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 04:09 PM
You mean that was intentional :| It sounded very wrong

I like the sound of this Steinway better than that Yamaha. I want to hear the Fazioli though.
Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 04:13 PM
Originally Posted by pianovirus

I'd love to hear what the critics said about him. Thanks a lot to the translators, Mati&co!!!


I will sum up everything later, with commentaries from morning session as well, but as for this:

"We often have the feeling that we would like to show our viewers how Chopin should not be played. It's virtually not possible, because the level is incredibly high, but then Mei-Ting Sun comes from nowhere to the rescue and demonstrates exactly that."

In other words, he probably won't get away with these rubato rubatissimo...

Originally Posted by LisztAddict
Originally Posted by pianovirus
10/3 loved it loved it (prominent wrong note in the melody slow part??)

I think he played from some rare, little-known score. I heard he played those strange notes before. Not a good idea to play that in a competition.


National Edition is the recommended music source for this competition, so going with some obscure editions is quite a bad idea perhaps.

M.
Posted By: pianovirus Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 04:17 PM
Originally Posted by Mati
I will sum up everything later, with commentaries from morning session as well, but as for this:

"We often have the feeling that we would like to show our viewers how Chopin should not be played. It's virtually not possible, because the level is incredibly high, but then Mei-Ting Sun comes from nowhere to the rescue and demonstrates exactly that."

In other words, he probably won't get away with these rubato rubatissimo...


Thanks so much Mati!
Wow, that commentary is so harsh!! I'm quite sad to hear that they are so rigid about what's acceptable and what not.
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 04:19 PM
I wasn't too impressed with Jacek Cortus's performance.
Posted By: Victor25 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 04:20 PM
Me neither, and I agree on the comment, its harsh but its the truth (imo). That crazy rubato stuff was what has driven me away from Chopin for a long time, until I heard some proper recordings of it, and now I love it (still hate op9/2 though smile ).
Posted By: timmyab Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 04:23 PM
Originally Posted by pianovirus
Wow, that commentary is so harsh!! I'm quite sad to hear that they are so rigid about what's acceptable and what not.

Yes I agree, if everyone plays the same way, what's the point.
I should think Jacek Kortus is a shoe in for the second round.Having said that, I invariably get these things wrong.
Posted By: Victor25 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 04:26 PM
I like Vladimir's Op25/6
Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 04:26 PM
Originally Posted by LisztAddict
I wasn't too impressed with Jacek Cortus's performance.


They didn't either. They said he had too little dynamic and color range and I tend to agree.
Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 04:28 PM
Originally Posted by Victor25
I like Vladimir's Op25/6


You mean 27/1? Yes, I love it too.
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 04:30 PM
Originally Posted by Mati
They said he had too little dynamic and color range....

EXACTLY!
Posted By: Victor25 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 04:30 PM
Hmm I think they got the order wrong in the program, he started with the nocturne right? I was talking about his etude Op25/6, the second etude he played. But overall I think he is my favorite of these 4.
Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 04:32 PM
My streaming must have a little delay, as he is playing the 25/6 right now for me - that's why I was surprised. Yes, the etude is very good, but I liked his Nocturne too!
Posted By: opus119 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 04:34 PM
I really felt sad for Yukami. She didn't even get called back for a 2nd round of applause.

I had high hopes for the Polish pianist. But unfortunately he only had pretty much one range of dynamics....F,FF and FFF.

Vladimir is hands-down the best of this group. Wow! So musical and technically solid.
Posted By: Andromaque Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 04:34 PM
Matusevich loosing his pulse on and off. SOmething not coming together very well..
Posted By: Mostly Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 04:38 PM
Originally Posted by Andromaque
Matusevich loosing his pulse on and off. SOmething not coming together very well..

I really didn't like his 10-4, seemed some rhythmic accents where either missing or misplaced, and the whole seemed rushed (which was a weird feeling.)
Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 04:44 PM
His scherzo doesn't do it for me either.
Posted By: jazzyprof Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 04:46 PM
Originally Posted by Victor25
Hmm I think they got the order wrong in the program, he started with the nocturne right? I was talking about his etude Op25/6, the second etude he played.

They don't necessarily follow the order listed in the program when they play.
Posted By: pianovirus Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 04:56 PM
In the next 5 years I'll definitely try to learn Polish; I'd love to understand all their discussions... laugh
Posted By: pianoloverus Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 05:06 PM
Originally Posted by Mati


"We often have the feeling that we would like to show our viewers how Chopin should not be played. It's virtually not possible, because the level is incredibly high, but then Mei-Ting Sun comes from nowhere to the rescue and demonstrates exactly that."

In other words, he probably won't get away with these rubato rubatissimo...

Originally Posted by LisztAddict
Originally Posted by pianovirus
10/3 loved it loved it (prominent wrong note in the melody slow part??)

I think he played from some rare, little-known score. I heard he played those strange notes before. Not a good idea to play that in a competition.


National Edition is the recommended music source for this competition, so going with some obscure editions is quite a bad idea perhaps.

It doesn't matter what the video commentators think, only what the judges think.

Mei Ting Sun has already won some big competitions and has been playing the complete Chopin works around the world in concert this year. He has played the Etudes complete since he a young teenager and is writing a book on the Etudes Op. 10. So I'm sure he has good reasons for choosing whatever version he does with the unusual notes in the 2nd page of the E major Etude. I heard him play the same version at Mannes two summers ago.

I thought his Etude Op.10 NO.3 and Ballade were sensationally good and with a perfect rubato.
Posted By: pianoloverus Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 05:11 PM
Originally Posted by Andromaque
...and rubato is not "in"
What makes you say that?
Posted By: Victor25 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 05:12 PM
Hahaha the moustache!
Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 05:13 PM
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
It doesn't matter what the video commentators think, only what the judges think.


Of course, you are right.

Originally Posted by pianoloverus

He has played the Etudes complete since he a young teenager and is writing a book on the Etudes Op. 10. So I'm sure he has good reasons for choosing whatever version he does with the unusual notes in the 2nd page of the E major Etude.


I believe he does. That doesn't change tha fact that rules of the competition state a particular edition for textual reference. His reasons may not be enough IF the judges find it not appropriate. It's their call though, and seeing who's in the jury, I believe they will know what to do.


M.
Posted By: Andromaque Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 05:14 PM
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by Andromaque
...and rubato is not "in"
What makes you say that?


Listening and reading the comments (of the commentators obviously, not the judges). Of course I meant excessive rubato, not simply rubato. He also stood out in this regard, when compared to the other competitors, even the very good "well-groomed" ones..

Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Mei Ting Sun has already won some big competitions and has been playing the complete Chopin works around the world in concert this year. He has played the Etudes complete since he a young teenager and is writing a book on the Etudes Op. 10. So I'm sure he has good reasons for choosing whatever version he does with the unusual notes in the 2nd page of the E major Etude. I heard him play the same version at Mannes two summers ago.

I thought his Etude Op.10 NO.3 and Ballade were sensationally good and with a perfect rubato.


P.S. You sound like his dad smile
Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 05:17 PM
(Madoka Madoka)
Natural flow in all pieces, but etudes somewhat lacking technically. Scherzo set in good mood, but there were details that they didn't like.
(Jacek Kortus)
Nocturne clean and crisp in all planes, little bit lacking in creating long phrases. He understands this piece. They complained about somewhat small dynamic and color range, but they said he had his own aesthetics and was coherent. He maintained the same style of playing throughout. Though they found these aspects lacking, they complimented that he did all what he did intentionally.
(Vladimir Matusevich)
Beautiful nocturne with broad colour and dynamic range. Etudes fast, without delicacy and fantasy. Very chaotic and incoherent. He was enthusiastic, so much that he was chaotic in conveying the ideas. Pulse, articulation.
Posted By: fuzzy8balls Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 05:28 PM
Noooo Rashkovsky why did you have to smudge that last A on 25/11!!!
Posted By: Victor25 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 05:31 PM
I forgive him, I think he is great.
Posted By: pianovirus Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 05:31 PM
Originally Posted by fuzzy8balls
Noooo Rashkovsky why did you have to smudge that last A on 25/11!!!


Haha I had exactly the same thought...I hope such things don't matter too much...I love his playing!! (f minor fantasy still playing)
Posted By: Victor25 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 05:39 PM
The Competition Repertoire must be played from memory.
Whilst the texts of all available editions of Chopin’s works are admissible, the organisers recommend the Urtext of the National Edition of the Works of Fryderyk Chopin (ed. Professor Jan Ekier).
Competitors are obliged to specify in their applications the edition of Chopin’s works they will be using and the exact timing of each work.

btw by the end of the competition, even the biggest Chopin fans must be a little bit tired of hearing the same etude's and nocturne's over and over.
Posted By: Andromaque Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 05:39 PM
really liked Ilya Rashkovsky.
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 05:41 PM
So many more cameras in the backstage now.
Posted By: fuzzy8balls Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 05:41 PM
Rashkovsky is still super awesome, I've seen a lot of his videos from other competitions. I hope he goes through to the next round!!! (><)
Posted By: pianovirus Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 05:43 PM
Bravo Rashkovsky! I found his f minor fantasy was also awesome, like the previous pieces.
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 05:43 PM
Originally Posted by Victor25
btw by the end of the competition, even the biggest Chopin fans must be a little bit tired of hearing the same etude's and nocturne's over and over.


yes, you will not want to hear any more Chopin for at least a month after the competition. laugh
Posted By: pianoloverus Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 05:50 PM
Originally Posted by Andromaque
P.S. You sound like his dad smile
Too bad he didn't play an Art Tatum encore when he came out for his second bow.
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 05:51 PM
I like Junna Iwasaki with the Nocturne 48/1 much better than Ilya Rashkovskiy.
Posted By: pianoloverus Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 05:53 PM
Originally Posted by Mati

I believe he does. That doesn't change tha fact that rules of the competition state a particular edition for textual reference. His reasons may not be enough IF the judges find it not appropriate. It's their call though, and seeing who's in the jury, I believe they will know what to do.
I can't imagine the judges care much which edition as long as it's a good one.
Posted By: pianovirus Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 05:57 PM
Originally Posted by LisztAddict
I like Junna Iwasaki with the Nocturne 48/1 much better than Ilya Rashkovskiy.


Interesting - I was just thinking the opposite (to my ears Rashkovsky seemed more nuanced in every aspect, dynamics, voicing...) - but I still enjoy a lot listening to her. This competition has an extremely high level and it's great to be able to hear so many different pianistic personalities all playing on such a high level.
Posted By: Victor25 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 05:59 PM
Yes the level of this competition is ridiculous. If anyone ever dreams of becoming a good pianist, they should just watch this once, and they will look for another career frown.
Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 06:01 PM
I don't either, that's why I posted the big IF. Disputing the authority of certain notes and reasons for using them is not my call, not for my knowledge.
Posted By: pianovirus Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 06:04 PM
Now Yulianna Avdeeva...I'm curious...I saw her playing by accident some years ago in a tiny little Swiss village where I was doing ski holidays. Didn't expect any culture there. But then it turned out a most memorable recital!!
Posted By: Rjt Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 06:04 PM
I agree. I'm amazed at how few outright mistakes there are. Some of the pieces are terrifyingly hard and very very seldom a clanking note is heard.
Posted By: Frozenicicles Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 06:06 PM
What bench do they have at the piano now? It looks like a cross between a bench and an office chair. Looks handy for quickly adjusting.
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 06:07 PM
Originally Posted by Victor25
Yes the level of this competition is ridiculous.


I think that's why some comments are very harsh. They are down to the tiniest details to separate these pianists.

I like Junna Iwasaki, but I must say her playing isn't as clean as many others.
Posted By: Andromaque Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 06:08 PM
Originally Posted by Victor25
Yes the level of this competition is ridiculous. If anyone ever dreams of becoming a good pianist, they should just watch this once, and they will look for another career frown.


I am so glad I do not have to do this for a living.. There are some stratospheric players out there. So sad that many of them eventually wither into the distance since the concert scene cannot support all of them (or for a variety of reasons), and end up teaching wise girls like myself.. frown
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 06:11 PM
Originally Posted by Frozenicicles
What bench do they have at the piano now? It looks like a cross between a bench and an office chair. Looks handy for quickly adjusting.


It's a hydraulic bench. You want it up, just pull the lever and lift your body up. You want it down, pull the lever and use your weight to push it down. I just saw the other day that the artist bench with the round knob that does the same except that you slightly twist the knob as you would do with the lever on this bench.
Posted By: Mostly Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 06:12 PM
Originally Posted by LisztAddict
Originally Posted by Frozenicicles
What bench do they have at the piano now? It looks like a cross between a bench and an office chair. Looks handy for quickly adjusting.


It's a hydraulic bench. You want it up, just pull the lever and lift your body up. You want it down, pull the lever and use your weight to push it down. I just saw the other day that the artist bench with the round knob that does the same except that you slightly twist the knob as you would do with the lever on this bench.

That makes me want to try it, as I'm sitting in a wooden and uncomfortable chair right now...
Posted By: Andromaque Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 06:12 PM
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by Andromaque
P.S. You sound like his dad smile
Too bad he didn't play an Art Tatum encore when he came out for his second bow.


I am going to have to borrow Mark C's signature comment here: ha

That would have been tremendous!
Posted By: Victor25 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 06:14 PM
You do know that is copyrighted right?
Posted By: Victor25 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 06:15 PM
Haha even she had to laugh at the ridiculous -pause- coughing time !!
Posted By: Victor25 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 06:16 PM
This etude always gives me shivers, the way it opens slowly like a storm coming over, and everything is dark, and then suddenly BOOM thunder, rain falls down, wind rushing by. Its amazing!
Posted By: Elene Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 06:17 PM
I was there Monday evening and heard that session's set of 8 contestants. The sound in that hall was totally amazing. I don't think I've ever heard a piano sound so incredible. It really did everything possible for those wonderful players.

I'm trying to write more about it for PW and post pictures, but I haven't had a good web connection most of this trip. Right now I am writing in the frigid, noisy lobby of a hostel in Krakow. (Weather was great today, though.)

Elene
Posted By: Andromaque Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 06:17 PM
Wow! A Richteresque 25/11 by Yulianna
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 06:20 PM
Same with Avdeeva Yulianna for the 25/11, very nice interpretation but not 100% clean.
Posted By: Victor25 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 06:22 PM
Dude's got skills, also excellent Scherzo choice imo! Imo very expressive, very beautifully played.
Though Op31 will be the king of scherzo's for me.
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 06:27 PM
This is one of the most expressive Scherzo No 4 I ever heard.
Posted By: Andromaque Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 06:29 PM
Dudette, actually.. She is studying in Zurich! They are doing something good there, obviously.. Klang, smething was off in the magnificent scherzo just now?


I loved her performance.. Would have worn a dress in traditional Poland..
Posted By: Victor25 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 06:30 PM
I wasn't sure, so I called it a dude. Anyway 'she' plays very expressive imo.
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 06:32 PM
I hope she won't get penalized too much for those klangs here and there.
Posted By: pianovirus Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 06:32 PM
OMG!!!!!! Yulianna Avdeeva's was my clear favorite of the entire afternoon! Superb!!
Posted By: fuzzy8balls Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 06:33 PM
Damn she went out for a 3rd time, nice. Very creative on all of her playing.
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 06:33 PM
returning for the third bow!!!!!
Posted By: Elene Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 06:39 PM
About the coughing, it was kind of amusing how people managed to hold on to their coughs during the pieces, then the whole room positively erupted with coughs. It sounded like half the people were genuinely sick.

Elene
Posted By: pianovirus Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 06:43 PM
Originally Posted by Elene
I was there Monday evening and heard that session's set of 8 contestants. The sound in that hall was totally amazing. I don't think I've ever heard a piano sound so incredible. It really did everything possible for those wonderful players.

I'm trying to write more about it for PW and post pictures, but I haven't had a good web connection most of this trip. Right now I am writing in the frigid, noisy lobby of a hostel in Krakow. (Weather was great today, though.)

Elene


Oh I envy you Elene, to be able to experience this directly (well, maybe not the hostel lobby...)! Enjoy!!
Posted By: Mostly Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 06:43 PM
I really like Koziak's nocturne (apart from a miss as I am typing that I think !), his basses were nice, and the slow pace in the beginning was well chosen.
His playing is both clear, simple and very expressive. I think smile
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 06:44 PM
Elene - I take it you just arrived in Krakow. Do you think that Galeria Krakowska a nice place?
Posted By: Victor25 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 06:44 PM
Wrong note etude, now thats alot of klinkers
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 06:45 PM
Originally Posted by Mostly
I really like Koziak's nocturne (apart from a miss as I am typing that I think !), his basses were nice, and the slow pace in the beginning was well chosen.
His playing is both clear, simple and very expressive. I think smile


Me too.
Posted By: fuzzy8balls Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 06:46 PM
Wow, Marcin on voicing melodies I've never even heard of on 25/5
Posted By: Victor25 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 06:50 PM
I didn't like the ending there of the revolutionary

Ow yes, my favorite Scherzo laugh!
Posted By: Mark_C Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 06:51 PM
Originally Posted by Andromaque
ha

Very well said.
Posted By: fuzzy8balls Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 06:54 PM
I thought the ending of 10/12 was fantastic. And YES my favorite scherzo
Posted By: Victor25 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 06:57 PM
Argerich plays the fast high part soooo much faster. It sounds very different then.
Posted By: fuzzy8balls Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 06:58 PM
DAMN, wow just before the recap on this b-flat minor scherzo m(. .)m Koziak
Posted By: Mostly Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 06:59 PM
He probably would be my favorite candidate if it were for his FF that sound a bit flat and lack color. Even then, I was really captivated.

EDIT : And the public too, it seems !
Posted By: pianovirus Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 07:00 PM
WOW!!!!!!! Marcin Koziak...he got really so furious in the Scherzo! I found him a bit more restrained (maybe deliberately?) before (not a bad thing at all), so I was surprised of the Scherzo. Another very good recital!!
At the risk of sounding pathetic....so much talent assembled, so much beautiful piano playing...it almost brings tears to my eyes!
Posted By: fuzzy8balls Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 07:00 PM
Standing ovation from my office desk HOLY [censored] THAT WAS AWESOME!!!!
Posted By: Victor25 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 07:00 PM
what is m( . . )m ?


he is my favorite by far!
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 07:01 PM
That was a great performance by Marcin Koziak.
Posted By: fuzzy8balls Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 07:02 PM
oh m(. .)m is supposed to be me bowing to his elite skills
Posted By: pianovirus Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 07:02 PM
Originally Posted by fuzzy8balls
Standing ovation from my office desk HOLY [censored] THAT WAS AWESOME!!!!


Haha, fuzzy8balls, I can assure you at least one other office in the world (mine) had exactly the same configuration (me standing on the office desk) after his Scherzo!! laugh
Posted By: Mostly Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 07:02 PM
Quote
At the risk of sounding pathetic....so much talent assembled, so much beautiful piano playing...it almost brings tears to my eyes!

Exactly, I have tremendous admiration for all the candidates ; they could have called it a concert instead of a competition, it wouldn't have mattered. It's really encouraging and makes me want to play my piano RITE NAO.
Posted By: Andromaque Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 07:04 PM
makes me NOT want to play my piano, ever...

Fantastic scherzo!
Posted By: Mostly Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 07:06 PM
I wish I understood what they said smirk
I found his "wrong note" etude simply amazing ; I don't think I've ever heard it so lyrical and melodic.
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 07:07 PM
It's good to see that Poland has at least one strong contender.
Posted By: Andromaque Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 07:09 PM
Originally Posted by Mostly
I wish I understood what they said smirk


No kidding.. My polish expanded in the last few days from "Dobre", to "Dobre", Nocturna, Chopina, legato, konkurs, Rosya and Japonia...
I bet it will be even more sophisticated by the end of the competition!
Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 07:10 PM
He was the first Pole to REALLY captivate me in this competition. STUNNING! Off to translate commentary. smile
Posted By: Mostly Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 07:12 PM
Originally Posted by Andromaque
Originally Posted by Mostly
I wish I understood what they said smirk


No kidding.. My polish expanded in the last few days from "Dobre", to "Dobre", Nocturna, Chopina, legato, konkurs, Rosya and Japonia...
I bet it will be even more sophisticated by the end of the competition!

Yeah I'm feeling it slowly coming together... A pity there's only one of these every 5 years, otherwise I might have gotten fluent one day.
Posted By: Victor25 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 07:13 PM
5 years really? wow I hoped it was annual
Posted By: Andromaque Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 07:17 PM
Originally Posted by Mati
He was the first Pole to REALLY captivate me in this competition. STUNNING! Off to translate commentary. smile


He is also trained in Poland!
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 07:51 PM
Originally Posted by Andromaque
Originally Posted by Mostly
I wish I understood what they said smirk


No kidding.. My polish expanded in the last few days from "Dobre", to "Dobre"......


Dobry, you meant? or "dobrze"? smile

Can you follow the keys like cis-mol, des-dur, h-mol, etc?
Posted By: Andromaque Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 07:56 PM
Ya.. they are kind of like german.
Posted By: Arghhh Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 10:41 PM
Is there anywhere I can watch/listen to the performances that have already occurred?
Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 10:47 PM
Not all of them, but best performances issued as Competition Chronicle CDs are also available online:

http://konkurs.chopin.pl/en/edition/xvi/chronicle/mp3

All performances are available on TVP Kultura website, but they are geographically restricted and won't work in the U.S., unfortunately.
Posted By: fuzzy8balls Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/06/10 11:23 PM
Geographically restricted eh? Sounds like a job for Tor...
Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/07/10 12:09 AM
Originally Posted by fuzzy8balls
Geographically restricted eh? Sounds like a job for Tor...


Of course it is possible to fool their georestriction algorithm, I believe it's a rather simple one. It should be a simple job for simple protocol tunnelling as well, granted one had a machine in "unrestricted" area at their disposal.

There is another thing - the archive is non-free.
Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/07/10 12:48 AM
Missing commentary from the morning session, the second part:

(Sung Jae Kim)
Beautiful C major etude, with captivating wave-like rising motion with great control. Beautiful sound in the nocturne and etude, not so in the ballade. The sound was harsh, in the thick parts it wasn't clean. He was also too often changing tempo abruptly with no reason. The use of pedal was not well controled.
(Lusine Khachatryan)
Great temperament but not yet under full control. Sound a bit forced.
(Eric Zuber)
Great finger selectivity and phrasing, also very solid octaves. One of the best c major etudes so far. In the nocturne very interesting singing tone - completely another sound quality than in etude, showing how well he can control the instrument. Very clean scherzo with clearly separated voices and masterful pedalization.
(Shota Miyazaki)
He had the piano under his control, but they felt he lacked emotional engagement and passion a bit. Although extremely good technically speaking, there was "something" lacking to move them.

Maybe I was falling asleep or something, but there was virtually no comments after evening performances - they showed some great praise for Koziak's playing complimenting his sound, power and control, but didn't care to discuss other pianists in-depth. Maybe they were running out of time or maybe I missed something somehow.
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/07/10 02:05 AM
Thanks Mati! anything is better than nothing. smile
Posted By: pianist87 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/07/10 03:02 AM
Originally Posted by Mati
Not all of them, but best performances issued as Competition Chronicle CDs are also available online:

http://konkurs.chopin.pl/en/edition/xvi/chronicle/mp3


Thank you for the link! Now I can listen to some of these performances while reading the commentaries.
Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/07/10 07:19 AM
It seems I won't be seeing today's performances at all, sorry guys frown Theoretically I can record them, but won't find time to watch them until next rounds, so it has little sense, considering the amount of material.



M.
Posted By: Victor25 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/07/10 07:37 AM
ahhh blast it....

But I would like to thank you very much Mati for all the translation you have already done. I can't believe people watch stuff as American Idol and 'got talent', when you can watch something like this. Too bad its only once in 5 years, I was hoping it was annual.
Posted By: forresty Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/07/10 08:50 AM
Marek Blacha - student of Alicja Paleta Bugaj (one of the commentators in the evening studio).
Comentators agreed that this year edition is on much higher level than previous one. Why? because for first time in history participants had to deliver dvd with their performance before entry stage of elimination.
There was fine anecdote about Pollini. Most participants want to visit some places in Warsaw related to Chopin or whatever (btw all such places were reconstructed after 2ww. There is almost nothing left from centre of old Warsaw. Probably you will find more Chopin places in Paris than in Warsaw) . Pollini asked what does he like to
in Warsaw replied - i don't know warsaw. I only know the way from my hotel to Philharmony.
There was a short review of yesterday polish performances - According to Jan Popis young Marcin Kozak was brilliant and he (Koziak) has everything what good chopinist should have but i had impresion that he did'nt want to say to much . In Poland is strong tendency to not to "overload" polish piansts with critic or praising . One of the commenator in the studio durning her career was criticised in such manner that she resigned from the final stage of the competition. Mr Radziwonowicz even didn't attempt due to lack mental resistance for strong critique although he is today concert pianist. Did you see shaking fingers of Avdeeva? Incredible. Such experienced pianist. Stress must be horrible.
Marek blacha - good performnce, warm reception of audience but a little bit nervous and thus not as good as should or could be (mr Radziwonowicz opinion)
Ingolf Wunder is playing - In my opinion he did not learn much since last t edition. very good pianist but not in Chopin probably. let's wait for studio review.

edit - mr. radziwinowicz opinion : I don't know if it is good way to playing Chopin
Posted By: Victor25 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/07/10 09:18 AM
Thank you!
Posted By: forresty Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/07/10 09:27 AM
greco - it is difficult to play after main challanger of the competition (wunder) but the more he played the better art he produced. Good pianist but performane not without mistakes.(radziwonowicz)

The piano is out of tune for me . probably they must do do something cause it doesn't sound so good. This is why next one have to wait
I will not be able to be with you between 12- 14 Warsaw time. i will record remaining session and i will write something after returning. maybe matti will find a little bit of time instead me.
at 21.30 warsaw time official announcing of the results of the first round

Posted By: Victor25 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/07/10 09:30 AM
Haha he makes barbarian faces while playing
Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/07/10 10:07 AM
Thank Forresty for backing me up! I am really sad, it seems I missed many wonderful performances today. HOWEVER I managed to get home early from the university, I am now on. Evening performances will get recorded and I will watch them as well. Hooray!

EDIT: It seems I missed most of the middle commentary though. It is so out of context for me now that I will not post anything. I will do the closing ones though.
Posted By: Victor25 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/07/10 10:24 AM
Finally I get to enjoy the Fazioli
Posted By: Victor25 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/07/10 10:59 AM
Oof that 25/6 etude started off really bad, like she wasn't ready for it.

Hmm the scherzo she is playing now also has some bad note's. I'm overall not to impressed with her, compared to the others.

She does look pretty
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/07/10 11:36 AM
Marie Kiyone is pretty good on the interpretation, but she had one big memory slip in the Ballade.
Posted By: Victor25 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/07/10 11:43 AM
Het 10/1 was sloppy too. I loved her nocturne though!
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/07/10 11:44 AM
Originally Posted by forresty
Comentators agreed that this year edition is on much higher level than previous one.


I had not seen the level of playing this high in the first round in any competition before.
Posted By: timmyab Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/07/10 11:46 AM
I didn't notice the memory slip but I liked her playing very much in parts.A few fluffs here and there I think.Not surprising given the circumstances I suppose, I'm sure I'd have a nervous breakdown on stage.
Posted By: Victor25 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/07/10 11:47 AM
I keep hoping someone will fail miserably, really not that I would want that for him/her, but then I could go on feeling normal again smile
Posted By: mynek Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/07/10 11:49 AM
Originally Posted by Arghhh
Is there anywhere I can watch/listen to the performances that have already occurred?


You may find some at:

http://www.youtube.com/user/karolklei#g/u

Posted By: Mostly Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/07/10 12:13 PM
Originally Posted by mynek
Originally Posted by Arghhh
Is there anywhere I can watch/listen to the performances that have already occurred?


You may find some at:

http://www.youtube.com/user/karolklei#g/u


Thanks, though too bad the sound doesn't seem as good as in the stream (which is surprisingly good.)

Edit : and it seems some videos were flagged for copyright infringement. What a disgrace.
Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/07/10 12:26 PM
Not much commentary today, they talked mostly about side things and whether Wunder was today's favourite or not.

(François Dumont)
Interesting scherzo, with bold openings and great clarity...
(Hanchien Lee)
... in contrast to Hanchien Lee, who started softer, more delicately.
(Marie Kiyone)
Linear playing with singing tone, showing the flow. Very well exposed melody line. Too little attention to structural elements and broader texture.
(Xin Tong)
His task was to get thorugh this stage of auditions, he didn't show everything he has. Strong presentation of his style - they believe he will concentrate on nuances more in the next rounds, granted he gets through of course. He was very sure of his skills and controled the tone masterfully. Even though there were sam little gimmicks in the scherzo, the overall impression was very good.
Posted By: Victor25 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/07/10 12:27 PM
just listen on the website http://konkurs.chopin.pl/en/edition/xvi/chronicle/mp3
Posted By: Elene Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/07/10 01:31 PM
While I'm sitting in the hostel resting a bit (legs could not go anymore!) I thought I would put up some pictures from the lobby of the competition so you'd have an idea of the place other than the hall itself. For some reason I can't actually upload them to my website with present equipment, but I was able to add them as attachments here: http://sites.google.com/a/elenelistens.com/chopin-pages/photos

They aren't impressive, but you can imagine standing there, I guess.

The other picture is a display of Chopin's last piano at Place Vendome, from the Chopin museum in Warsaw. The furniture around it is not the original but they found similar stuff.

Elene
Posted By: Victor25 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/07/10 01:32 PM
I need some login to get into that website
Posted By: forresty Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/07/10 02:25 PM
summary of the first part of morning session:
geniusas - student of moscow conservatory. There was a question if we could name him a typical agent of russian school with its all downsides and advantages? Radziwonowicz said : Yes - we can hear that he has power in hands and thus his sound is powerfull and rich when it comes to dramatic , forte part of the composition. Although he is able to play lyrical pieces with warm sound. it was very strong performance but not extremal one which is not adequate to Chopin style. He is a sort of the pianist I like to hear, he has no technical problem, ballad was very interesting and etudes in good taste.
Jan Popis added - i had impression we heard not a student but a mature pianist who really know what to do and what he wants to do. He is a concert pianist , he has tactical knowledge how to arrange his performance, and physical and psychical strenghts. He is very calm in virtuoso parts of the program (etudes), we can hear solid, typical to the russian school skills. Etude cis-moll was even more in Tchaikovsky style played than in Chopin style . Etude chromatique was under stricted controll. This control also was present when it comes to the tempo issue. No problem with it - tempos were correct - slighty to high than used to be but acceptable.
Popis added one general observation - so far he hasn't heard good performance of ballade. Young artists don't know how to build form of the balade which is very difficult genre. but ballade of geniusas was one of the best because it was very open and musically played
Radziwonowicz said ballade is specific sort of playing - we have to know where is ulmination and we can not to lose control over emotions included in every phrase (and over emotions of player of course). Young players often missed true and most important point of culmination which is at the end - in finale what this young russian/ lithuanian pianist read correctly from the score

marek bracha - they recall lyrical fragment of his ballade where he correctly played left and right hands. You can not play Chopin with a hidden left hand. Both voices are important. They paid attention on the control of the sound what if it is to strong it can lead to lack of emotions. ballade turns into boring piece of music - this is comon problem at this competition but usually we can har overly expression durning performances. We have to find balance. bracha's ballade was quite good at this point but a little bit too calm.
He was also nervous and not everything was correct.

greco- young pianist and he is not prepared yet to compete at this competition bus he surprised them with his Fantasia. Radziwonowicz said Fantasia is even more difficult than ballade. Chorale, march (but it can't be march but there have to be some melody)and he compiled all parts very well and moreover che choosed right tempo what is important for narration. When he played march he played simultaneously cantilene. There was a melody there in left hand what is very difficult.
Jan Popis has also his private view on Fantasia - he claims that russians have some kind of patent on interpretation of Fantasia. Generally it is heroic work . Why? Great achievement of russian musicologists - especially one of them who in the late '30 wrote brilliant analysis where we can find fantastic harmonic conclusion and recipe for interpretation. And he think that when russian student comes to his master with fantasia score professor ask him - do you know this work. if no read it first and come to me late with fantasia score. (Kultyshew, Trifonow and Khozainow played Fantasia if i remember correctly)
At this moment there was some consternation in the studio cause Radziwinowicz did not know what is he talking about but Popis did not reveals any further details. He pointed only that Italians have beautiful tradition of Fantasia interpretation which derives from Mechelangelli and he can hear this in greco performance .
Radziwinowicz added that Russians have another strong point in tradition of playing Fantasia. In russian tv there is record of van Cliburn Fantasia performed in Tchaikowsky Conservatory and available probably only in Russia - radziwinowicz said this Fantasia is fantastic and studied in every conservatory in Russia.
Conclusion - they want Polish pianists to take challenge and create polish school of Fantasia.


Wunder - after 5 years he is "modified version of wunder". According to Popis he improved quality of sound. His sound is rich, coloured and has some nobility. Piano is very clear and ringing. Wunder was satisfied with his performance. Radziwonowicz said that he had to be a little bit nervous at the beginning and he made a mistake taking ballade as the first item of his performance.Etudes were quite good. Etude gis moll described by Radziwonowicz as very difficult and many pianist play it with slowe tempo and forget about melody in the left hand but wunder has virtuoso skills and has no problem with it and moreover he added beautiful piano to it. We can't hear any technical difficulties. We can hear only beatiful phrase - melody . Diminuendo in this etude is very difficult to achieve.
Popis said also that wunder has more appropriate, better aproach to Chopin but no quite good yet.

Xin Tong - good idea to put the best elements of the program at the end. Etudes were good. Popis added anounced items of future stages suggest that he is an ambitious player and at this moment he was concentrated on going through tothe next round. Juillard school wit great tradition of Rosines but school witch new quality. mati Raekallio - fantastic pedagogue from Finland. School of helsinki derives from Busoni. So he is in good hands

Dumont - Dramatic scherzo compared to hanchien lee. lee played much more soft and was concentrated on articulation

Kyione - she was described as right-handed pianist - chopin should not be played in linear style. left hand has harmony , melody and points of culminations thus we can't cover it up by melody of right hand. beside she is very musical and lyrical but she has to change interpretation of left hand.

there was a small discusion about favorites in context of Wunder. Radziwonowicz said that he expected more. Popis after hearing once again admitts there is something in his playin and Wunder could be main challenger of this competition but there is too early to point any favoritue.

ufff... that's all. Sorry for all the language mistakes but i have no time to write with vocabulary at the hand and i don't use english day by day so it is difficult to me to write in foreing language
Posted By: pianovirus Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/07/10 02:39 PM
Originally Posted by forresty
ufff... that's all. Sorry for all the language mistakes but i have no time to write with vocabulary at the hand and i don't use english day by day so it is difficult to me to write in foreing language


I (and surely many others) greatly appreciate your efforts to translate the commentator discussions! Many many thanks, it is very interesting to read!
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/07/10 03:31 PM
I was able to hear the Ballade no 4 played by Kana Okada. I think it was excellent.
Posted By: Sande Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/07/10 03:39 PM
oh my god


Natalia Sokolovskaya has put a spell on me. I think im in love haha : )

Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/07/10 03:44 PM
Very expressive playing.
Posted By: Sande Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/07/10 03:47 PM
hm the etude op 10 no 1 , she played it well.. but not as impressive as ive heard before in the competetion. what do you think?
Posted By: opus119 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/07/10 03:51 PM
Op. 10 no. 1 didn't have quite enough dynamic variation. It seemed too loud throughout. That piano is very bright. But who am I to make any kind of negative comment...they are all just blowing me away.

Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/07/10 03:56 PM
This scherzo performance reminds me of Avdeeva Yulianna yesterday. I have goosebumps up on my arms.

Not quite as powerful as Yulianna, but it was close.
Posted By: Andromaque Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/07/10 04:05 PM
I loved Slovoskaya's playing. Majestic, magical, lyrical.. I would love to hear her in other repertoire too. I think that she was very nervous too.. And I was worried her handkerchief would get on the keys.. How "brave" she is to just posit it there at the end of the keyboard!!!!

Would everyone else agree that the russians, in general, were really superb? there is always talk about the weakening / dilution of the Russian schoola nd of a somewhat negative impact of "democratization" on the standards at Russia's main conservatories.. Obviously we are seeing the creme de la creme.. But are they impressive!!!
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/07/10 04:30 PM
Originally Posted by Andromaque
I think that she was very nervous too.. And I was worried her handkerchief would get on the keys.. How "brave" she is to just posit it there at the end of the keyboard!!!!

Yes, I had the feeling that she was very nervous as she took a very long time before starting the Scherzo. I noticed of that handkerchief being on the keys too. LOL


Originally Posted by Andromaque
Would everyone else agree that the russians, in general, were really superb? there is always talk about the weakening / dilution of the Russian schoola nd of a somewhat negative impact of "democratization" on the standards at Russia's main conservatories.. Obviously we are seeing the creme de la creme.. But are they impressive!!!

Well, they have higher population that are into classical music. Same in China, Japan, and Korea. And with so many people in the same field, it becomes more competitive. Anyone wants to stand out has to work extremely hard.
Posted By: Andromaque Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/07/10 04:32 PM
Originally Posted by LisztAddict
[Well, they have higher population that are into classical music. Same in China, Japan, and Korea. And with so many people in the same field, it becomes more competitive. Anyone wants to stand out has to work extremely hard.


I meant the quality of the training. I doubt anyone on that podium did not work super hard..
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/07/10 04:32 PM
Some people that play this Nocturne 48/1 must not read on the score the word "agitato" in this doppio movimento section.
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/07/10 04:34 PM
and they have scary teachers too. laugh
Posted By: Andromaque Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/07/10 04:59 PM
They are dissecting Andrew tyson's playing. No clue what they are saying.
I caught some of his performance and liked it very much.
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/07/10 05:02 PM
I really enjoyed his playing. I think he is our USA best hope.
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/07/10 05:26 PM
Last 2 contestants of preliminary round.
Posted By: Mostly Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/07/10 05:33 PM
I've read somewhere results were at 21h30, true ?
Posted By: pianoloverus Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/07/10 05:37 PM
How many go on to the second round?
Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/07/10 05:41 PM
As far as I remember, no more than 40, but strict number is not given. Results are to be announced on 21h30, but knowing the previous competitions history, they will most probably be late with them ;-)
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/07/10 05:43 PM
Mostly - I don't know.
pianoloverus - I don't know. There are 4 rounds in this competition, so I am guessing the first cut is 50%.
Posted By: opus119 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/07/10 05:50 PM
I'm not sure, but I think they were pretty critical of Andrew Tyson. I heard the word "fragmented" more than once and also his rubato, especially in the Nocturne, was just too much (for the panel, I think).

Now Denis...he is amazing. I am loving his Ballade.
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/07/10 05:55 PM
Originally Posted by opus119
I heard the word "fragmented" more than once......


I agree. Sometimes I felt the elements didn't go quite well together. But overall, I enjoyed his playing.
Posted By: fuzzy8balls Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/07/10 05:58 PM
damn this last dude is huge!!! darn I missed most of this morning and only saw the last 2
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/07/10 06:04 PM
my video is dead
Posted By: fuzzy8balls Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/07/10 06:08 PM
it came back just before he started 10/1, wow major crash n burn (><)
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/07/10 06:10 PM
Marcin Koziak played the same 25/5 yesterday. No comparison between Szymczak and Koziak.
Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/07/10 06:12 PM
Thang, you say no comparison - which of the two was better? I have yet to watch the reocrded session, hence it's not obvious.
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/07/10 06:13 PM
Marcin Koziak is way better, of course.
Posted By: fuzzy8balls Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/07/10 06:15 PM
Yeah Koziak's scherzo was much better too... crap video keeps on cutting out.
Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/07/10 06:15 PM
Thanks. I thought his etude was marvelous and when you wrote "no comparison", and I've read "the last guy is huge" I was really curious. He would have to be really HUGE to beat that!
Posted By: fuzzy8balls Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/07/10 06:20 PM
oh I meant by his height/frame when I said "huge". He looks like he's playing on a toy piano.
Posted By: mynek Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/07/10 06:26 PM

results will be announced between 9 and 10p.m. (polish time)
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/07/10 07:23 PM
What a long wait! laugh
Posted By: iampiano Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/07/10 07:51 PM
The result is coming up here.
http://chopin2010.pl/en/competitions/xvith-chopins-competition.html
Posted By: iampiano Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/07/10 08:06 PM
Sorry, the broadcasting has been stopped. They were showing all the contestants waiting for the results. Hopefully, we can see when the result comes up.
Posted By: mynek Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/07/10 08:29 PM
while waiting, Polish radio II is streaming good jazz:

http://www.polskieradio.pl/Player/Stacja/2,Dwojka
Posted By: opus119 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/07/10 09:03 PM
Has anybody seen results yet? Now the website is saying that the online streaming won't return until October 9th at 9:50! Darn...
Posted By: iampiano Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/07/10 09:12 PM
Well, their facebook page says they will announce the result on the website. Also, Polish people are telling to check the Polish radio on fb. There is special program on Chopin competition from 10-12pm where they may announce the result.
Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/07/10 09:34 PM
They just announced that the results should be available in next 20 minutes. I wonder why is it taking too long. Maybe Argerich is fighting for some individuality again? ;-)
Posted By: Mostly Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/07/10 09:35 PM
It's almost midnight, the contestants must be agonizing !
Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/07/10 10:21 PM
The results!
Posted By: mynek Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/07/10 10:23 PM
results!!!
http://www.polskieradio.pl/Player/Stacja/2,Dwojka
Posted By: opus119 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/07/10 10:28 PM
Andrew Tyson made it to the next round.
Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/07/10 10:29 PM
I'm excited! I will be able to hear all the pianists that really captivated me at least once again.
Posted By: Andromaque Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/07/10 10:30 PM
So where can one find the list?
Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/07/10 10:32 PM
I believe it will be up shortly. There was an announcement live on the radio, there is no list on the website yet.
Posted By: Andromaque Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/07/10 10:33 PM
any poles made it?
Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/07/10 10:35 PM
Marek Bracha, Jacek Kortus, Marcin Koziak & Paweł Wakarecy. What I recall, many Russians made it too, including Khozyainov, Kultyshev, Trifonov and Shadrin.
Posted By: Mostly Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/07/10 10:36 PM
So, what's the program in the next round ?
Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/07/10 10:37 PM
* one of the following works, not performed in Stage I:
Ballade in G minor, Op. 23
Ballade in F major, Op. 38
Ballade in A flat major, Op. 47
Ballade in F minor, Op. 52
Barcarolle in F sharp major, Op. 60
Fantasy in F minor, Op. 49
Scherzo in B minor, Op. 20
Scherzo in B flat minor, Op. 3
Scherzo in C sharp minor, Op. 39
Scherzo in E major, Op. 54
* one of the following waltzes:
Waltz in E flat major, Op. 18
Waltz in A flat major, Op. 34 No. 1
Waltz in F major, Op. 34 No. 3
Waltz in A flat major, Op. 42
Waltz in A flat major, Op. 64 No. 3
* one full set of mazurkas from the following opuses:
17, 24, 30, 33, 41, 50, 56, 59
The mazurkas must be played in the order they are numbered in the opus.
In the case of the Mazurkas, Opp. 33 and 41, the authentic numbering applies:
o Op. 33:
G sharp minor, No. 1
C major, No. 2
D major, No. 3
B minor, No. 4
o Op. 41:
E minor, No. 1
B major, No. 2
A flat major, No. 3
C sharp minor, No. 4

* one of the following polonaises:
Andante spianato and Polonaise E flat major, Op. 22
Polonaise in F sharp minor, Op. 44
Polonaise in A flat major, Op. 53
* at least one Chopin work of the competitor’s choosing not performed in Stage I.

Stage II performances to last 45–50 minutes.
Works may be performed in any order.
Should a competitor overrun the time limit, the Jury may stop the performance.
Posted By: Sande Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/07/10 10:38 PM
WTF is anyone hearing that Dangerooflute of the DEVIL ?? haha this is some scary stuff w t f... O_O it sounds like screams from heck

http://www.polskieradio.pl/Player/Stacja/2,Dwojka
Posted By: Mostly Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/07/10 10:39 PM
That was fast smile

So no sonatas yet... I can't wait... Not too big on the Mazurkas, so I'll probably only listen to my favorites.
Posted By: Andromaque Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/07/10 10:40 PM
When does Stage II start?
Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/07/10 10:41 PM
The whole waiting period with experimental music was driving me nuts...

Sonatas are left for 3rd round. Saturday, the 9th, is the day when 2nd round begins.
Posted By: Mostly Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/07/10 10:48 PM
Quote
The whole waiting period with experimental music was driving me nuts...

I've been practicing Op. 10-12 in all twelve tones for a good four hours now, so I'd say the waiting has been pretty good on me smile
(definitly do that, great fun and not so easy ! And Eb is the worst, for a reason)
Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/07/10 10:49 PM
First incarnation of the official list:

Avdeeva
Bozhanov
Bracha
Cheung
Dong
Dumont
Fedorova
Geniušas
Gilbert
Gillham
He
Hu
Huangci
Iwasaki
Katada
Khozyainov
Kim
Kortus
Koziak
Kultyshev
Masson
Nagano
Osaki
Prjevalskaya
Rashkovskiy
Shadrin
Sudo
Suh
Sun
Sun
Tong
Trifonov
Tysman
Tyson
Veneziano
Wakarecy
Watanabe
Wunder
Zhdanov

Only surnames though. I hope to see the full list on the website soon.
Posted By: Mostly Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/07/10 10:51 PM
That's still a lot of participant though - I thought they'd cut a little bit thinner.
Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/07/10 10:53 PM
It's going to cut in half in 3rd round, and again in half in the finals, leaving only 10 contestants on stage.
Posted By: pianoloverus Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/07/10 11:10 PM
I read at the official site that for the first time the contestants can find out their scores in the first round. Anyone know if the public can find out...I doubt it, but just curious?

Also, does anyone know the system the judges used in the first round for selecting those that go on to the next round?
Posted By: Andromaque Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/07/10 11:17 PM
So PLUS, is your guy in? Too many Suns!!!!
Posted By: pianoloverus Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/07/10 11:20 PM
If Mei Ting didn't make it to round to I'M going to withdraw all the judges from the jury.
Posted By: fuzzy8balls Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/07/10 11:29 PM
Yeah here's hoping MeiTing makes it to the finals!!! (><). I was surprised some sloppy players made it through.
Posted By: ChopinAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/07/10 11:40 PM
I am curious to know who made it through too.
Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/07/10 11:49 PM
http://konkurs.chopin.pl/en/edition/xvi/verdicts/1871_1st_stage_sessions___verdict

Absolutely official list.
Posted By: Mostly Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/07/10 11:52 PM
Some of the photos are really nice, too bad the resolution isn't higher frown
Posted By: ChopinAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/07/10 11:57 PM
Thanks!
Posted By: Damon Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/07/10 11:59 PM
Too bad, I would have liked to have seen Zhichao advance.
Posted By: Opus_Maximus Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/08/10 12:16 AM
I've been watching only sporadically, so can't really comment or predict on any people (although I loved Andrew Tyson's imagination and Zhdanov's solidity and overall pianism.) I'm surprised Eric Zuber didn't advanced, as he has a way of getting into the finals of nearly every competition he enters.

One thing I like about this year's competition is it's jury. Instead of the usual mafias of the competition world (Kaplinsky, Pressler, Kammerling, Vardi, etc..) they actually have a legitimate variety of great pianists whom one doesn't usually see sitting on juries...
Posted By: ChopinAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/08/10 01:02 AM
It looks like they took down the videos on YouTube....
Posted By: opus119 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/08/10 02:05 AM
You can at least hear highlights if you go to their main website and click on "Competition Chronicles."
Posted By: ChopinAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/08/10 02:13 AM
Thanks, that's better than nothing... I would like to, but I cannot stay up all night every night... frown
Posted By: Strings & Wood Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/08/10 02:34 AM
Mati,
Thanks for all of the great information!
Carl
Posted By: izaldu Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/08/10 12:06 PM
Kultyshev is taking part? He is an awesome Liszt player.
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/08/10 01:15 PM
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
If Mei Ting didn't make it to round to I'M going to withdraw all the judges from the jury.


LOL!!!
Posted By: Andromaque Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/08/10 03:05 PM
Originally Posted by LisztAddict
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
If Mei Ting didn't make it to round to I'M going to withdraw all the judges from the jury.


LOL!!!


Thank God he made it in then!!
Some of those candidates are a bit of a surprise. The absence of some also: de Grolee and Sokolovskaya as an example..
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/08/10 03:39 PM
A few that made the next round and a few that should have, they are so close in their playing level, it's very subjective in the selections. A couple of my favorites didn't make it. I think the competition is quite generous to have 40 people going into the next round.
Posted By: ConcertEtudes Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/08/10 05:25 PM
Seems most of the pre-competition favorites (or relatively more famous ones) made it to the second round. I hope that the jury is not judging based on past success to decide who gets to the next round(maybe in too close to call cases they will be biased?) But 20 minutes of music in the first round is probably a bit too short to make a call on...
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/08/10 05:43 PM
All those that I heard in THIS competition and I thought are the major contenders, they advanced to second round.
Posted By: ChopinAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/08/10 09:43 PM
Originally Posted by LisztAddict
A few that made the next round and a few that should have, they are so close in their playing level, it's very subjective in the selections. A couple of my favorites didn't make it. I think the competition is quite generous to have 40 people going into the next round.


I agree. And a couple of my favourites didn't make it either.
Posted By: mynek Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/08/10 10:11 PM
There was a discussion on the Polish radio regarding those who were very good but were rejected:

Sung-Jae Kim
Natalia Sokolovskaya
Kana Okada
Eric Zuber
Anke Pan
Denis Evstuhin

They were sorry mainly for Sung-Jae Kim and compared his "genial interpretation" of Ballade G minor with that "poor" of Guillaume Masson (who surprisingly made it to the second round). They also reminded Sung-Jae Kim's interpretation of Etude A minor 25/4 and said they would "always remember all his interpretations"!!!

In a similar fashion they compared the way Etude B minor 25/10 was played by Natalia Sokolovskaya (who didn't make it) and Ilya Rashkovskiy (who made it).

Also, they played "super-delicate" but unsuccessful Kana Okada (Nocturne C-sharp minor 27/1) and "wooden" but successful Xin Tong (Nocturne G major 37/2).

According to them, the largest mistake of the jury was letting Evgeni Bozhanov to go on.


Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 12:16 AM
I agree. Natalia Sokolovskaya's performance was very impressive and far better than some that made into the second round. She was one of my picks for advancing.

I would rate Bozhanov somewhere in the middle of this field of 40. He was good but nothing amazing.
Posted By: Scherze Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 05:20 AM
I haven't listened to many, but I'll be paying particular attention to Marcin Koziak next week.

I also enjoyed listening to Pawel Wakarecy, who made lots of technical mistakes, but seemed to be having the time of his life. Such enthusiasm..

I liked the way Bozhanov tried to do something different, such as emphasizing the details of the left hand a lot, Maybe a little overdone, but it often worked well, such as in the Etude Op 10/11.

Feel bad about Zuber and some others I liked who didn't make it to the next round. At least Zuber got two pieces on the CD.

Posted By: ChopinAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 08:08 AM
The rotating circles (interrupted connection) are terrible tonight....
Posted By: mynek Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 08:16 AM
Originally Posted by ChopinAddict
The rotating circles (interrupted connection) are terrible tonight....


Are you watching this?
http://konkurs.chopin.pl/en/edition/xvi/online/broadcasting
No problem with the connection in Dublin, Ireland.
Posted By: ChopinAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 08:20 AM
Yes, and I never had this problem before. Maybe I will try to restart Firefox....
Posted By: ChopinAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 08:45 AM
I think I have to give up watching the contest tonight... frown

Edit - Two minutes later:
I am listening to it on the radio instead...
Posted By: Victor25 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 08:59 AM
There are multiple sources to watch it from aswell, maybe just try another link?
Posted By: Andromaque Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 08:59 AM
it is working well for me..
Savoring Kultyshev now.. Love the Polonaise pulse..
He apparently already won the Tchaikovsky competition a few years ago!!
Posted By: Victor25 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 09:01 AM
This dude is GOOD
Posted By: ChopinAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 09:17 AM
Originally Posted by Victor25
There are multiple sources to watch it from aswell, maybe just try another link?


They are all bad tonight... frown Well, actually only the Chopin2010.pl site works at all here apart from the competition site.
But the radio works OK.
I set the video mute and am still watching it with the music from the radio, so at least the music goes on when the connection is interrupted...
Unfortunately they are not 100% synchronized though.... cry
Posted By: izaldu Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 09:23 AM
Addict, maybe it s a connection problem. Mine s gone off twice today (new flat, but reatrting windows has solved it. i think the stream is fine.

Kultyshev is living up to my expectations. But will they favour a Tchaik winner to win the Chopin too? Anyone ever won both?

ASnyway, looking at this year's level (veru high) , i can only reaffirm my idea that Blechacz is one ina amillion, literally. The guy won this at 20!
Posted By: ChopinAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 09:25 AM
I did try to restart Windows too - with no luck...
Posted By: izaldu Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 09:29 AM
Oh well ... at least you can hear it, which is what counts
Posted By: timmyab Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 09:43 AM
I like Miroslav Kultyshev a lot.I'll be surprised if he doesn't make the final round.
Posted By: mynek Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 10:00 AM
Originally Posted by izaldu

(...)
ASnyway, looking at this year's level (veru high) , i can only reaffirm my idea that Blechacz is one ina amillion, literally. The guy won this at 20!


Krystian Zimerman (born December 5, 1956) was the winner of that competition (IX) in 1975. He was eighteen then!!!
Posted By: Andromaque Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 10:03 AM
Originally Posted by izaldu
Anyone ever won both?



The closest was Ashkenazy. He won 2nd prize at the Chopin competition in 1955, and shared the Tchaik. first prize with John Ogdon in 1962.
Posted By: Victor25 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 10:24 AM
Haha omg Ogdon and Ashkenazy, that must have been a spectacle!
Posted By: izaldu Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 10:59 AM
I am impressed with the coverage of this event. It s really cool that a piano competition gets so much support, and relevance. I wish there was something even remotely like this on every big competition.

It will be interesting to see who takes the "constructor championship". I have not listened to a Fazioli yet. Trifonov will be playing one later today. Hélène Tysman will be using Yamaha. All the others today will be on Steinway.

Are there any other pianos available to the participants?
Posted By: ChopinAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 11:13 AM
I have seen Shigeru Kawai too, and the Fazioli just once I think, but I couldn't follow all the concerts due to the time difference.
Posted By: ChopinAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 11:20 AM
Just curious... Has anyone here at PW ever participated in the competition?
Posted By: Sande Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 12:12 PM
yes I did






in my dreams...

is the stream offline btw?
Posted By: Andromaque Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 01:04 PM
Incidentally, all the contestants who played the Fazioli went through to the second stage (Watanabe, Trifonov, Veneziano, Dumont)and will be playing it again.
Posted By: pianoloverus Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 01:18 PM
I liked very much the Canadian pianist who played right before the intermission. I thought he played the Waltz Op. 42 with less emphasis on pure brilliance and somewhat slower than most pianists and enjoyed this interpretation. I liked his Ballade No.2 very much also. In the fast sections his right hand didn't interfere as much with the left hand melody as is often the case. The piece sounded much less like an etude than it does in many performances I've heard. Liked his Mazurkas also.

Mei Ting Sun will be playing the Allegro de Concert in his recital which should be very interesting.
Posted By: Batuhan Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 01:38 PM
Offending remarks removed by forums owner.
Next time, offending remarks maker will be removed.
Posted By: Kreisler Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 01:54 PM
Apparently you're also interested in a huge argument that will end in this thread being locked and you being very unpopular.

This thread's going on my watch list now. I have to teach for the next 7 hours, but I'll be checking back in tonight.
Posted By: Victor25 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 02:05 PM
The Fazioli is my favorite.
Posted By: Nous Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 02:11 PM
Batuhan,

Saying "I am not a racist", does not exempt you from being a racist. I am sure a lot of asian pianist would take it as an offense for being called "slanted eye aliens" playing piano. It sounded really insulting to me personally. I hope you can keep those words to yourself next time. And welcome to 21th century.
Posted By: Victor25 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 02:13 PM
Sometimes this place can be like a kindergarten.
Posted By: Batuhan Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 02:24 PM
Originally Posted by Nous
Batuhan,

Saying "I am not a racist", does not exempt you from being a racist. I am sure a lot of asian pianist would take it as an offense for being called "slanted eye aliens" playing piano. It sounded really insulting to me personally. I hope you can keep those words to yourself next time. And welcome to 21th century.


Im sorry if i broke their hearts but i cant feel the piece when asians play ( except Yundi Li and Lang Lang ) . This is just criticism. Im getting back my slanted eye statement. And i like asians they are cute people.
Originally Posted by Batuhan

Im sorry if i broke their hearts but i cant feel the piece when asians play ( except Yundi Li and Lang Lang ) . This is just criticism. Im getting back my slanted eye statement.


It doesn't matter what race one is. I have Asian friends who are wonderful, genuine pianists, and who play music with true feeling. Don't believe me? Just ask Menahem Pressler; he said so himself! wink
Posted By: Victor25 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 02:49 PM
Originally Posted by Batuhan
And i like asians they are cute people.


This is a fine example of racism.

You pick one race: Asians
You give one judgement: They are cute people

Saying a good or bad thing actually doesn't matter. Its that you judge a whole group of people, based one one thing, their race.
If you would be more evolved in your thinking, you would say Asians are people. There are cute people, there are bad people, there are great people etc. etc.

Sometimes it makes me sad that after all this time, people still can't open their eyes.
Posted By: ChopinAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 03:06 PM
My Internet connection is working fine now... 2:07 am
Posted By: Andromaque Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 03:10 PM
gorgeous sounds from the Trifonov/Fazioli unit. this piano is made for him.. a really singing tone
Posted By: Elene Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 03:11 PM
Boze moj! I just stopped in here to say that AT LAST I am in the hotel room (Prague now) at a time when I can listen to a little of the competition, and here is a mess again.

I am so pleased to see that Ching-Yun Hu made it to the second round. Out of the few contestants I heard live, she was unmatched for sheer beauty of sound. The very first note she played, a lone, sustained melody note at the beginning of a nocturne, put me in ecstasies. I literally did not know a piano (it was the Steinway) could sound like that.

Now I am stuck with my dinky netbook speakers, but it's gorgeous anyway. I'll put on my headphones and curl up for a bit before hitting the San Francisco-like hills again.

Elene
Posted By: izaldu Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 03:23 PM
Originally Posted by Andromaque
gorgeous sounds from the Trifonov/Fazioli unit. this piano is made for him.. a really singing tone


Amen!
Posted By: Batuhan Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 03:31 PM
Daniil Trifonov skipped Andante spianato and Grande Polonaise in E flat major op. 22 why ? Im waiting for hours!
Posted By: Victor25 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 03:32 PM
I want a fazioli laugh

@Batuhan, they don't have to play in the order given.
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 03:33 PM
Originally Posted by Batuhan
Daniil Trifonov skipped Andante spianato and Grande Polonaise in E flat major op. 22 why ?


He probably want to end with the Grand Polonaise.
Posted By: Batuhan Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 03:35 PM
Originally Posted by LisztAddict
Originally Posted by Batuhan
Daniil Trifonov skipped Andante spianato and Grande Polonaise in E flat major op. 22 why ?


He probably want to end with the Grand Polonaise.


That would be charming end.
Posted By: izaldu Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 03:39 PM
Here we go
Posted By: Victor25 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 03:40 PM
Wouldn't it be awesome if someone just played a piece in a different key, see if anyone will notice laugh

The dude's got to work on his funny faces, but his playing is outstanding.
Posted By: Batuhan Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 03:42 PM
This piano changed my mind about fazioli.
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 03:44 PM
It sounds like he is very nervous.
Posted By: Batuhan Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 03:51 PM
His facial expressions reminds me Fazıl Say.
Posted By: Victor25 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 03:52 PM
Haha indeed [Linked Image]
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 03:54 PM
He had some nice moments, but overall, I felt he rushed too much.
He looked nervous too.
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 03:56 PM
That's the bench I want!!! laugh
Posted By: Batuhan Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 03:57 PM
Originally Posted by LisztAddict
He had some nice moments, but overall, I felt he rushed too much.
He looked nervous too.


Yes true he rushed and he made 2 unacceptable mistakes in Grande Polonaise. But i appreciate him he played in front of Martha Argerich.
....or how about just ban the racist troll and DON'T lock the thread??
Posted By: Alkana Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 04:09 PM
Originally Posted by Batuhan

Yes true he rushed and he made 2 unacceptable mistakes in Grande Polonaise.


Daniil Trifonov was extraordinary. perhaps he was not perfect all the time, and so what ? must we prefer cleaner but soulless and boring pianists ? I hope the jury is not thinking that...
what a sound, it was captivating...
Posted By: Batuhan Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 04:15 PM
Originally Posted by Alkana
Originally Posted by Batuhan

Yes true he rushed and he made 2 unacceptable mistakes in Grande Polonaise.


Daniil Trifonov was extraordinary. perhaps he was not perfect all the time, and so what ? must we prefer cleaner but soulless and boring pianists ? I hope the jury is not thinking that...
what a sound, it was captivating...


I said i appreciate him. He was extraordinary but not extraordinary enough to be the first on this competition.
Posted By: Alkana Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 04:17 PM
of course, it's too early to say who will be the winner
Posted By: forresty Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 04:21 PM
let's wait for lady Kozubek's review of trifonov. :-) What a brutal pianist she said... he he.... there was no polonaise in the polonaise.
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
I liked very much the Canadian pianist who played right before the intermission. I thought he played the Waltz Op. 42 with less emphasis on pure brilliance and somewhat slower than most pianists and enjoyed this interpretation. I liked his Ballade No.2 very much also. In the fast sections his right hand didn't interfere as much with the left hand melody as is often the case. The piece sounded much less like an etude than it does in many performances I've heard. Liked his Mazurkas also.

.


This pianist is a very good, very old friend of mine. His playing today was truly transcendental, showing artistry and technical accomplishment that I have not yet seen from many of the contestants so far. I have very high hopes for him in this competition. My bet is that he is at least a finalist if not a prizewinner. He is that good. I'll pass on on your compliments. His name is Yun Yun Gilbert (goes in competitions by his other name Leonard) and he studies with Pressler @ Indiana.
Posted By: Victor25 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 04:32 PM
Omg AGAIN the andante spiniato! I can't bear it, I need to listen to something else!
Posted By: jazzyprof Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 04:37 PM
Yup, the Canadian pianist was indeed brilliant.

Hey, JustAnotherPianist, I see you're from the United Kingdom. Perhaps you can shed some light on this, something that has puzzled me for a while: How come there wasn't a single competitor from the UK among the 81 pianists in the first stage? Are there no amazing young pianists in the UK these days (well, other than yourself smile ) ?
Posted By: Victor25 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 04:40 PM
I noticed there were no Dutch guys either. My teacher wanted to attend the previous one, but had concert's which he gave priority.
Posted By: Victor25 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 04:45 PM
I like the fact that this guy seemed to enjoy himself
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 04:57 PM
forresty - so what are they saying about the mazurki played by Trifonov?
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 05:03 PM
I think Nagano played the polonaise way better than Trifonov did.
Posted By: forresty Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 05:10 PM
mazurkas were far better than polonaise. they are terrified by his polonaise. he was to agressive , overemotional. Trifonov's mazurkas have very good lyrical parts but as Kozubek said his mazurkas were not mazurkas. left hand did not put an accent in important points. They were so soft, so delicate. Mazurka is a peasant's dance not a noble lady's.
nagano played mazurkas as valtzes. Completely out of mazurkas style.
Kozubek is saying interesting thing about japanese pianists but maybe I translate it later.
Posted By: Victor25 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 05:20 PM
Please translate smile
Posted By: BruceD Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 05:33 PM
Originally Posted by LisztAddict
I think Nagano played the polonaise way better than Trifonov did.


Nagano is the first pianist I have listened to. I found his C-sharp Polonaise a little too fast for my taste but also a little too aggressive. It lacked the nobility and the elegance that (I think) should be associated with these concert versions of the Polonaise. I would also have appreciated a little more reserve in the Grande Polonaise, as well.

At this level of competition, however, it's just a question of personal taste and preferences. Who can fault these pianists, really, on the basis of interpretation other than comparing their interpretations to one's own ideal?

Regards,
Posted By: Andromaque Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 05:34 PM
Nagano's mazurkas had the wrong accents, phrasing, the worng everything.

I did enjoy Trifonov though. I wish he were not so tense. He has an amazing touch and gorgeous sound. I can imagine him maturing into a fantastic artist.

Also enjoying Gilham very much..

AT this stage, you really need expert high level pianists to sort things out...

I have to say Kudos to all of them . 45 minutes of high concentration on difficult and nuanced repertoire, under these stressful conditions is incredibly taxing.
Posted By: forresty Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 05:36 PM
She said that japanese students are to closed, too introvertic. She had to teach them how to express their emotions. it is easier to cooperate with japanese girls than boys. maybe it derives from their culture where man can't expres his emotions so much.
Another expert said Koreans have better aproach to learning. They didn't try to learn play Chopin . They try to understand him and it is better way to improve skills at this issue. Also students from China were mentioned - the are very talented and like to work hard. They spoke about yundi Li and lang lang. Both perfect students (Yundi before Chopin competition learned only in Pekin) but both have problems with mazurkas and probably if you want to play it correctly you have to spend a lot time in Poland or have some polish teacher or techer educated in Poland.
At least they said it is easier to work with Koreans and students from China than from japan
Posted By: Andromaque Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 05:44 PM
is there a blinking red light in the background, perhaps to indicate his time is up??

P.S. I think I am wrong about that..
Posted By: BruceD Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 06:01 PM
Originally Posted by Andromaque
[...]
Also enjoying Gilham very much..

[...]


Indeed!
Posted By: BruceD Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 06:03 PM
Originally Posted by Andromaque
is there a blinking red light in the background, perhaps to indicate his time is up??

P.S. I think I am wrong about that..


I think it's blinking on a camera, indicating that the camera is running - maybe?
Posted By: landorrano Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 06:04 PM
This is the first player I've been able to see. Sorry to say, I don't find his approach to Chopin to my taste, at least as it is reproduced by the video broadcast.

Although it is clear that he is playing his heart out.

Posted By: Andromaque Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 06:11 PM
Don't know what you mean. I really loved his interpretations.
Posted By: Victor25 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 06:17 PM
I have high hopes for this one from France.
Posted By: Batuhan Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 06:25 PM
Something different about Hélène Tysman she is playing ballade no 4 now and i feel like Chopin plays it she plays very clear and quiet i didnt hear beatiful interpretation like this before.
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 06:28 PM
Originally Posted by Victor25
I have high hopes for this one from France.


Me too.
Posted By: Victor25 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 06:36 PM
I liked her Ballad alot, and it seems she is finally one that 'gets' the mazurka's. They are dances!
Posted By: Batuhan Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 06:40 PM
Originally Posted by Victor25
I liked her Ballad alot, and it seems she is finally one that 'gets' the mazurka's. They are dances!


This girl will win the first prize im really sure. She is like reincarnation of Chopin.
Posted By: Victor25 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 06:41 PM
btw isn't this Waltz Op42? Program sais 64/3
Posted By: Batuhan Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 06:43 PM
Originally Posted by Victor25
btw isn't this Waltz Op42? Program sais 64/3


Yes she is playing op 42 text says op 64 no 3 crazy

And now she is playing heroic polonaise and text says Polonaise F-sharp minor op. 44
Posted By: Victor25 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 06:44 PM
she is ..... AMAZING
Posted By: Butters109 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 06:45 PM
This lady has quite the hefty program.
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 06:45 PM
Isn't this polonaise op 53?
Posted By: Victor25 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 06:47 PM
I love how she puts the accents, timing and all with such a graceful tone, her runs so smooth and intentional. And the sounds so different, really like different instruments. I am truly blown away!
Posted By: sarah_elizabeth Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 06:48 PM
Yeah, I think this is the op. 53 "Heroic" polonaise. Somebody must have gotten mixed up.

Didn't get a chance to hear this lady the first round, and I definitely see why she made it to the second! Beautiful, clear playing in the French tradition.
Posted By: cruiser Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 06:55 PM
They could do with air-con in this hall - Miss Tysman looks uncomfortable.

At last, something I can play - Op28 No7! grin
Posted By: Opus_Maximus Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 06:56 PM
While not quite my cup of tea, Helene Tysman is definitely a polished, mature, artist with a very "likeable" quality that I think will go over well with the jury.
Overall I preferred Jayson Gillam, although I found him missing softer nuances in sound and color.
Posted By: Victor25 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 06:57 PM
she does do a very weird and excessive rubato on her 28/4. Its definitely something new, but I prefer it more traditional.
Posted By: sarah_elizabeth Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 07:02 PM
Originally Posted by cruiser
They could do with air-con in this hall - Miss Tysman looks uncomfortable.


Poor lady. Yeah, I noticed that - particularly after playing that polonaise. wink

Posted By: landorrano Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 07:07 PM
Bravo !

A pleasure to hear, a pleasure to watch.

Originally Posted by sarah_elizabeth
Beautiful, clear playing in the French tradition.


Wholehearted agreement.

Posted By: Victor25 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 07:08 PM
Hahaha omg!

She would have returned a third time
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 07:11 PM
She did do a few unusual things, but that was overall a very strong performance of the day.
Posted By: stores Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 07:17 PM
Unfortunately, Tysman, is the first pianist I've heard. I had the feeling she had the left pedal held down through much of her programme. Fine playing, but, for me it was if she was playing in the coziness of a salon (where most of this music was first played/heard) and not an auditorium.
Posted By: landorrano Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 07:19 PM
Originally Posted by stores
for me it was if she was playing in the coziness of a salon (where most of this music was first played/heard) and not an auditorium.


I agree, and that's why I like her.
Posted By: Victor25 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 07:25 PM
I'm confused

-tysman, is the first pianist I'v heard -> positive?
-She had the left pedal held down through much of her programme -> negative?
Posted By: stores Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 07:31 PM
Originally Posted by landorrano
Originally Posted by stores
for me it was if she was playing in the coziness of a salon (where most of this music was first played/heard) and not an auditorium.


I agree, and that's why I like her.


If you bought a ticket and were sitting in the last row of the auditorium you might not think the same way.
Originally Posted by jazzyprof
Yup, the Canadian pianist was indeed brilliant.

Hey, JustAnotherPianist, I see you're from the United Kingdom. Perhaps you can shed some light on this, something that has puzzled me for a while: How come there wasn't a single competitor from the UK among the 81 pianists in the first stage? Are there no amazing young pianists in the UK these days (well, other than yourself smile ) ?


I never said I am FROM the UK....only that I am IN the UK.
There are some decent young pianists here in the UK-but I suppose not many of them applied/got this far at all. Ben Grosvenor is one of the better ones from the UK....but he's too young for this competition still and hasn't focused enough on Chopin to do it.
The people in this round have more or less been preparing their programmes for ChopComp for two or three years. I know Yuns has been. And it shows.

Jayson Gillham, another friend of mine, STUDIES in the UK but is actually from OZ. I missed him today-how was it?

I haven't seen anyone so far up to the level of DA GILBERT...missed Tysman tho...seen her before she's alright but got nothing on DA GILBERT
Posted By: landorrano Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 07:36 PM
Originally Posted by stores
Originally Posted by landorrano
Originally Posted by stores
for me it was if she was playing in the coziness of a salon (where most of this music was first played/heard) and not an auditorium.


I agree, and that's why I like her.


If you bought a ticket and were sitting in the last row of the auditorium you might not think the same way.


But then again, I might think the same way ... and I am quite sure that I would.

Posted By: stores Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 07:39 PM
Originally Posted by Victor25
I'm confused

-tysman, is the first pianist I'v heard -> positive?
-She had the left pedal held down through much of her programme -> negative?


I'm just saying that she is the first pianist I've heard...unfortunately she is the only one I've heard today. Understand? It's neither a positive nor a negative statement.
Yes, the second is a negative critique. You don't play an auditorium the same way you play your living room. Do you know what I mean?
Posted By: stores Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 07:44 PM
Originally Posted by landorrano
Originally Posted by stores
Originally Posted by landorrano
Originally Posted by stores
for me it was if she was playing in the coziness of a salon (where most of this music was first played/heard) and not an auditorium.


I agree, and that's why I like her.


If you bought a ticket and were sitting in the last row of the auditorium you might not think the same way.


But then again, I might think the same way ... and I am quite sure that I would.



Ok then. If your idea of a great performance is one that consists of a performer with a lack of projection skills that cause you to lose focus and sounds very thin and far away from your seat in the back row of the balcony, then so be it. It's your money, not mine.
Posted By: landorrano Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 07:48 PM
She isn't giving a concert, she is submitting her understanding of Chopin to the jury , who are not seated in the back row.

If the people in the back row aren't happy, they can go fry an egg, in my view ... and the people in the second row, for that matter. It is only the people in the first row, the jury, whose opinion matters.

If that is the reason that the audience gave a more enthusiastic applause to Gilham, who could've been heard from the last row of Yankee Stadium, then they are asses.

Besides, I'm sure that there was no problem in the back row.
Posted By: Victor25 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 07:54 PM
Originally Posted by stores
Originally Posted by Victor25
I'm confused

-tysman, is the first pianist I'v heard -> positive?
-She had the left pedal held down through much of her programme -> negative?


I'm just saying that she is the first pianist I've heard...unfortunately she is the only one I've heard today. Understand? It's neither a positive nor a negative statement.
Yes, the second is a negative critique. You don't play an auditorium the same way you play your living room. Do you know what I mean?


Come on don't be a smart-ass, you know English isn't my first language, and even with my degree that states I speak, hear, read and write it like a native, there are some things that I miss. When you said she was the first 'pianist' you heard, I thought you were saying that the others to your ears weren't pianists. A more obvious way to state it was that she was the first one you heard. And what you might think of as playing to soft, others find to be delicate etc. Her Ballade, Mazurka's and Polonaise were outstanding imo. The prelude's I didn't like so much.

On a side-note, do you really have such a hard time being nice?
Posted By: Elene Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 08:54 PM
I am having trouble understanding why Andromaque thinks Nagano's mazurkas were so wrong. They danced in a way that was so joyous and that gave me great joy to hear. I don't know that many people understand what Chopin was trying to do with the third beats of those pieces nearly so well as this guy. He's doing what I would if I could. I feel he has a deep understanding. But of course we all have different understanding.

On the other hand, the Grande Polonaise seemed to me a bit odd-- strangely staccato in the opening, for one thing (but then I don't know exactly how it is written)-- rushed in places, and somewhat out of control. But everything up to that point-- wonderful.

I wish I could have heard Tysman after the enthusiastic comments here....

Elene
Posted By: FarmGirl Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 09:04 PM
Does anyone know it will continue tomorrow? Do you know the schedule of the competition? Thanks
Check on the website man. It's all there.
Posted By: mynek Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 09:27 PM
I am listening to the Polish Radio II. The key comment is that all mazurkas played today had the wrong accents (synkopas in polish).
Posted By: FarmGirl Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 09:48 PM
Thanks, i found it
Posted By: pianoloverus Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 09:49 PM
Originally Posted by TheMostImprovedDog
Does anyone know it will continue tomorrow? Do you know the schedule of the competition? Thanks
Here is the link:
http://konkurs.chopin.pl/en/edition/xvi/competition/auditions/stage/2/day/1
Posted By: pianoloverus Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 09:52 PM
Originally Posted by mynek
I am listening to the Polish Radio II. The key comment is that all mazurkas played today had the wrong accents (synkopas in polish).
I find that statement highly dubious becasue:

1. I don't think the accents sounded very different from many other recordings I've heard
2. These perfomers are among the best young pianists in the world already.
3. They've studied with the best teachers in the world.
Posted By: mynek Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 10:24 PM
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by mynek
I am listening to the Polish Radio II. The key comment is that all mazurkas played today had the wrong accents (synkopas in polish).
I find that statement highly dubious becasue:

1. I don't think the accents sounded very different from many other recordings I've heard
2. These perfomers are among the best young pianists in the world already.
3. They've studied with the best teachers in the world.


According to the experts in Polish Radio II what we heard today was "not mazurkas but impressions on mazurkas".

Ad1. I don't share your opinion. Have you heard Witold Malcuzynski's interpretations of mazurkas?
http://malcuzynski.galeon.com/download.html
Hm?

Ad2. The experts comments were about the wrong way "these best young pianist" played mazurkas. Wrong accents (synkopas)!

Ad3. Yes, they've studied with the best teachers in the world. For example Kotaro Nagano's teacher is Dang Thai Son, the winner of this this competition in 1980, who also got special prize for his interpretation of mazurkas, and sits in the jury this time. And it does not change a thing.


Posted By: stores Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 10:24 PM
Originally Posted by landorrano
She isn't giving a concert, she is submitting her understanding of Chopin to the jury , who are not seated in the back row.

If the people in the back row aren't happy, they can go fry an egg, in my view ... and the people in the second row, for that matter. It is only the people in the first row, the jury, whose opinion matters.

If that is the reason that the audience gave a more enthusiastic applause to Gilham, who could've been heard from the last row of Yankee Stadium, then they are asses.

Besides, I'm sure that there was no problem in the back row.


She IS giving a concert...that's the whole idea. The jury takes these things into consideration, many of them being performers themselves.
Posted By: stores Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 10:31 PM
Originally Posted by Victor25
Originally Posted by stores
Originally Posted by Victor25
I'm confused

-tysman, is the first pianist I'v heard -> positive?
-She had the left pedal held down through much of her programme -> negative?


I'm just saying that she is the first pianist I've heard...unfortunately she is the only one I've heard today. Understand? It's neither a positive nor a negative statement.
Yes, the second is a negative critique. You don't play an auditorium the same way you play your living room. Do you know what I mean?


Come on don't be a smart-ass, you know English isn't my first language, and even with my degree that states I speak, hear, read and write it like a native, there are some things that I miss. When you said she was the first 'pianist' you heard, I thought you were saying that the others to your ears weren't pianists. A more obvious way to state it was that she was the first one you heard. And what you might think of as playing to soft, others find to be delicate etc. Her Ballade, Mazurka's and Polonaise were outstanding imo. The prelude's I didn't like so much.

On a side-note, do you really have such a hard time being nice?


A smart ass? Good God, I just explained what I said to you and you call me a smart ass. What the heck is wrong with you? I don't NEED to word my sentence, "Unfortunately, Tysman, is the first pianist I've heard." It is what it is...it's quite a simple statement. How someone could take that to mean that others that I'd heard (which I hadn't yet) weren't pianists is beyond me. I realize English isn't your first language, but when someone explains what they've said to you don't jump to the conclusion that they are being a smart ass or whatever. Get a grip.
I took store's first comment to mean this is the only person he's heard play.

Also, maybe stores is talking about maybe how you should project more in a concert hall so people even in the back can hear you. Concert halls are usually big and absorb sound, so you have to project your tone a little more than you think.

And in competitions, I've always been taught that the performer is basically giving a concert.
Posted By: stores Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 10:38 PM
Originally Posted by Orange Soda King
I took store's first comment to mean this is the only person he's heard play.

Also, maybe stores is talking about maybe how you should project more in a concert hall so people even in the back can hear you. Concert halls are usually big and absorb sound, so you have to project your tone a little more than you think.

And in competitions, I've always been taught that the performer is basically giving a concert.


Thank You. Apparently, there are STILL some left who understand written word (it's not as if I've been typing with mystical ink).
Posted By: Mostly Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 10:55 PM
Only heard Tysman as well, didn't find her playing very interesting. I lost focus quite quickly so I won't comment too much ; overall my fellow French pianists have been quite disappointing to my ears.
Waiting for Marcin Koziak...

I found they all did a good job of adapting their playing to the hall (then again, I must say I find the recording quality very good.)
I always have problems when playing in unknown halls on unknown pianos, and have to plan the order of my pieces so as to compensate.

Quote
Miss Tysman looks uncomfortable.

Also, she did look very distressed before playing.
Posted By: landorrano Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 11:07 PM
Originally Posted by Orange Soda King

And in competitions, I've always been taught that the performer is basically giving a concert.


When you give a concert, you have your plane paid, you get picked up in a limo, your hotel is paid, you get wined and dined, you don't get stopped if you play too long, you get a bouquet whether you play well or not, you get paid whether you play well or not, you get dropped off in a limo. And you don't have to pay a registration fee.

Posted By: Andromaque Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 11:33 PM
Originally Posted by landorrano
Originally Posted by Orange Soda King

And in competitions, I've always been taught that the performer is basically giving a concert.


When you give a concert, you have your plane paid, you get picked up in a limo, your hotel is paid, you get wined and dined, you don't get stopped if you play too long, you get a bouquet whether you play well or not, you get paid whether you play well or not, you get dropped off in a limo. And you don't have to pay a registration fee.



Well if the ticket holders in the back of the hall do not hear you, it would likely be the last time you get picked up in a limo, winded, dined etc..
By the way, the jury is NOT sitting in the first row. They are in the first row of the mezzanine or balcony which is towards the back of the hall.

Incidentally, there is a short interview with Martha Argerich in the last edition of the competition newspaper (Chopin Express, downloadable from the website). She apparently played an 1800s Pleyel recently, and was forewarned by Pires that the instrument has "only 2 colors". Martha said that she was worried since she was told it is best to practice on these instruments for 2 weeks or so, to get used to them. She nonetheless played and according to Pires, the playing was very nuanced and "with a thousand color". Argerich comments that she thought once that may be the Chopin competition could be conducted on a period instrument. She was quick to add: "But NOT in this hall!". I suspect she is thinking about the back row folks!!
Posted By: pianoloverus Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 11:34 PM
Originally Posted by landorrano
Originally Posted by Orange Soda King

And in competitions, I've always been taught that the performer is basically giving a concert.


When you give a concert, you have your plane paid, you get picked up in a limo, your hotel is paid, you get wined and dined, you don't get stopped if you play too long, you get a bouquet whether you play well or not, you get paid whether you play well or not, you get dropped off in a limo. And you don't have to pay a registration fee.
You got one out of nine items for a grade of 11%.
Posted By: TheHappyMoron Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/09/10 11:47 PM
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by landorrano
Originally Posted by Orange Soda King

And in competitions, I've always been taught that the performer is basically giving a concert.


When you give a concert, you have your plane paid, you get picked up in a limo, your hotel is paid, you get wined and dined, you don't get stopped if you play too long, you get a bouquet whether you play well or not, you get paid whether you play well or not, you get dropped off in a limo. And you don't have to pay a registration fee.
You got one out of nine items for a grade of 11%.


How would you get the final percent?? lol
Posted By: stores Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/10/10 12:35 AM
Originally Posted by landorrano
Originally Posted by Orange Soda King

And in competitions, I've always been taught that the performer is basically giving a concert.


When you give a concert, you have your plane paid, you get picked up in a limo, your hotel is paid, you get wined and dined, you don't get stopped if you play too long, you get a bouquet whether you play well or not, you get paid whether you play well or not, you get dropped off in a limo. And you don't have to pay a registration fee.



Wow! I know a LOT of pianists that wish your fantasy world was the real thing!
Posted By: ChopinAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/10/10 01:01 AM
I think the commentators are a little bit harsh... As said before in this thread, the competition is on a very high level this year, but the commentators in general seem to find more negative things to say than positive...
Posted By: vladimiroir Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/10/10 01:07 AM
I am just curious, the pianist are studying with very good teachers, but then why they fail to perform flawlessly and colourfully? Is it the teachers fault?,, the teachers fail to correctly guide their students to the competition needs,,, or is it because the student itself cannot cope up?
Posted By: stores Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/10/10 01:10 AM
Originally Posted by ChopinAddict
I think the commentators are a little bit harsh... As said before in this thread, the competition is on a very high level this year, but the commentators in general seem to find more negative things to say than positive...


It's a high level EVERY time round. Who, by the way, ARE the commentators?
Posted By: kawaifans1025 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/10/10 01:33 AM
I haven't got the time and Internet bandwidth to follow the actual playing of the contestants. Do you guys think there is going to be a winner who deserves this top prize? From memory they will have to award the gold medal right?
Posted By: stores Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/10/10 01:39 AM
Originally Posted by kawaifans1025
I haven't got the time and Internet bandwidth to follow the actual playing of the contestants. Do you guys think there is going to be a winner who deserves this top prize? From memory they will have to award the gold medal right?


I haven't heard all of the pianists so I can't say whether there should be a top prize. When you say "from memory" do you mean that the jurists would have to recall each performance from memory while deciding on their tallies? If so, no. They take plenty of notes, but those that DO make an impression seem to somehow etch themselves into our memories don't they?
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/10/10 02:49 AM
Originally Posted by kawaifans1025
Do you guys think there is going to be a winner who deserves this top prize?

Yes, I think at least a couple guys are good enough for first prize, but it's still too early to say.


Originally Posted by kawaifans1025
From memory they will have to award the gold medal right?

I read this many years ago. They go by a point system. Let's say a contestant can earn a maximum of 25 points in each round and must get a minimum 20 points to advance to the next round. The final standings are based on cumulative points of all rounds. Say the first-prize winner must earn a minimum of 90 points, but if there is no one with at least 90 points, then they don't award first prize. I don't know if they are still using this sytem.
Posted By: mynek Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/10/10 03:00 AM
There are a number of recordings from the competition on the Polish Radio website at:
http://moje.polskieradio.pl/StationDetails.aspx?id=12

There are also webcasts presenting experts' opinions (in polish) at: http://www.polskieradio.pl/61/600/Podcasty/8/Tematy/35385

These "harsh" experts are: Małgorzata Pęcińska (musicologist, radio presenter), Marcin Majchrowski (musicologist, journalist), and Marek Dyżewski: http://free.art.pl/hofmann/english/achievements/dyzewski.html
Posted By: kawaifans1025 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/10/10 03:21 AM
Thanks. From memory means from my memory. Sorry for the confusion. I remember reading somewhere since 2000 they have to award the first prize (the first prize went to Yundi Li. Surely he deserves it but for the past 2 competitons 1st prizes were not awarded).

Anyway thanks for your information. Looking forward to witness the birth of another star in classical piano.
Posted By: Victor25 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/10/10 08:39 AM
Originally Posted by stores
Originally Posted by Orange Soda King
I took store's first comment to mean this is the only person he's heard play.

Also, maybe stores is talking about maybe how you should project more in a concert hall so people even in the back can hear you. Concert halls are usually big and absorb sound, so you have to project your tone a little more than you think.

And in competitions, I've always been taught that the performer is basically giving a concert.


Thank You. Apparently, there are STILL some left who understand written word (it's not as if I've been typing with mystical ink).


The whole 'Understand?' and 'Do you know what I mean?' was way over the top. But whatever, there are more then enough annoying people in the world, thankfully I can put you on ignore.
Posted By: Batuhan Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/10/10 09:50 AM
Hélène Tysman is my favorite contestant she interpret Chopin even better than horowitz she is like new Rubinstein.
Posted By: landorrano Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/10/10 11:19 AM
Saw the last 5 minutes of Fedorova. Very nice.

Saw the first 5 minutes of Armellini. Very nice, très dansant.

Saw he last 5 minutes of Katada. Don't have a reaction. Seems like something of a star.
Posted By: stores Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/10/10 11:37 AM
Originally Posted by Victor25
Originally Posted by stores
Originally Posted by Orange Soda King
I took store's first comment to mean this is the only person he's heard play.

Also, maybe stores is talking about maybe how you should project more in a concert hall so people even in the back can hear you. Concert halls are usually big and absorb sound, so you have to project your tone a little more than you think.

And in competitions, I've always been taught that the performer is basically giving a concert.


Thank You. Apparently, there are STILL some left who understand written word (it's not as if I've been typing with mystical ink).


The whole 'Understand?' and 'Do you know what I mean?' was way over the top. But whatever, there are more then enough annoying people in the world, thankfully I can put you on ignore.


WTF??? I was simply asking if you understood my responses. I give up. You seem to understand what you WANT to understand.
Posted By: stores Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/10/10 11:44 AM
Some of the comments left here, clearly, have an attachment to some of what's been discussed in the "pianists appearance" thread. I wonder exactly how much opinion would differ were there no video associated with the competition. I find it very amusing, really.
Posted By: Sande Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/10/10 11:57 AM
WOW what piece is Fei-Fei Dong now playing ? @ 13:58
Posted By: landorrano Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/10/10 12:10 PM
Didn't pay close attention, but Dong seemed highly agreeable.
Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/10/10 12:56 PM
Unfortunately I was away from town, Dong was the first performance from the 2nd round I have heard, and still not the entire one. I liked it a lot - now she showed that she not only has great delicacy in tone, but can also be roaring and powerful.
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/10/10 02:53 PM
Fei-Fei Dong is really good.

Claire Huangci will be up in 5 minutes.
Posted By: Andromaque Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/10/10 03:04 PM
I want to confess that despite my utter ignorance of the polish language, I like this style of presentation far better than the Cliburn. Muuuuchhh less schmaltz and camera in the face of the contestant before, during and after.. Even though I do not get the comments, they seem to be focused on the details of the performance and not the sob story or the cooking prowesses of any individual..

I know, IMHO etc.. but seriously, what do you think?
Posted By: Batuhan Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/10/10 03:05 PM
I wonder how she play ballade no 1
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/10/10 03:14 PM
Originally Posted by Andromaque
I want to confess that despite my utter ignorance of the polish language, I like this style of presentation far better than the Cliburn. .... but seriously, what do you think?


I am with you there.
Posted By: Andromaque Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/10/10 03:28 PM
This is really really good but I am not pulled in.. somehow. Probably it is just me? I can't put my finger on what is wrong, if any.. Any experts listening in?
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/10/10 03:35 PM
I feel the tempo is a bit erratic, especially in the Ballade.

The Andante Spianato is pretty good, but sometimes a little heavy finger.
Posted By: Alkana Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/10/10 03:45 PM
I don't really like. too "standard", a little boring I find
Posted By: jazzyprof Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/10/10 03:48 PM
I find Claire's playing right now a little too "pretty".
Posted By: signa Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/10/10 03:50 PM
i guess the audience applauds said it all. no one seems too excited about it.
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/10/10 03:51 PM
I thought the Grand Polonaise was quite good. Just a few little things here and there where I have slightly different taste for.
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/10/10 03:53 PM
Still no Rondo Op 1 so far. frown
Posted By: cruiser Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/10/10 03:58 PM
Check out the fingers - especially the thumbs - on Da Sol Kim - amazing! shocked
Posted By: Frozenicicles Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/10/10 04:04 PM
He seems to play with a lower wrist and much flatter fingers than the norm.
Posted By: signa Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/10/10 04:06 PM
Kim sounds much more individual than Huganci, as it seems. he changed his hair-do from QEC, looked more masculine now.
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/10/10 04:07 PM
He is not doing the staccato notes as written.
Posted By: landorrano Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/10/10 04:46 PM
Originally Posted by Andromaque
I want to confess that despite my utter ignorance of the polish language, I like this style of presentation far better than the Cliburn. Muuuuchhh less schmaltz and camera in the face of the contestant before, during and after.. Even though I do not get the comments, they seem to be focused on the details of the performance and not the sob story or the cooking prowesses of any individual..

I know, IMHO etc.. but seriously, what do you think?


I agree, I disliked watching the Super Bowl - uh, I mean the Cliburn.
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/10/10 04:48 PM
I think Kim is a step above Huangci.
Posted By: signa Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/10/10 04:53 PM
Originally Posted by landorrano
Originally Posted by Andromaque
I want to confess that despite my utter ignorance of the polish language, I like this style of presentation far better than the Cliburn. Muuuuchhh less schmaltz and camera in the face of the contestant before, during and after.. Even though I do not get the comments, they seem to be focused on the details of the performance and not the sob story or the cooking prowesses of any individual..

I know, IMHO etc.. but seriously, what do you think?

I agree, I disliked watching the Super Bowl - uh, I mean the Cliburn.



i feel the same. even some pianists were not comfortable with media in your face approach then, and some even refused to be interviewed. this is much better, focusing on performance of each individual instead.
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/10/10 05:01 PM
The commentators are really focusing on Da Sol Kim's performance. Wish I could understand what they say.


Ching-Yun Hu in 2 minutes.
Posted By: Andromaque Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/10/10 05:06 PM
ditto..

flat fingers a la Horowitz..
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/10/10 05:12 PM
Only one contestant, Marek Bracha, will play Rondo Op 1 in this whole competition.
By the way, if you want to insert the online broadcast of this competition on your site, you could easily do that using this code:

Quote
<div>
<object width="685" height="420" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" data="http://cm2.atmitv.pl/ContentManager/swf/Player.swf">
<param name="movie" value="http://cm2.atmitv.pl/ContentManager/swf/Player.swf"></param>
<param value="false" name="menu"></param>

<param value="true" name="allowFullScreen"></param>
<param value="always" name="allowScriptAccess"></param>
<param value="m=http://cm2.atmitv.pl/ContentManager/utilitiesGetFlashPlayList.go?id=1239&a=0&sp=1&h=ELK&l=http://cm2.atmitv.pl/ContentManager/img/player-skins/blue.png&f=http://cm2.atmitv.pl/ContentManager/swf/Player.swf" name="flashvars"></param>
<embed flashVars="m=http://cm2.atmitv.pl/ContentManager/utilitiesGetFlashPlayList.go?id=1239&a=0&sp=1&h=ELK&l=http://cm2.atmitv.pl/ContentManager/img/player-skins/blue.png&f=http://cm2.atmitv.pl/ContentManager/swf/Player.swf" src="http://cm2.atmitv.pl/ContentManager/swf/Player.swf" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowScriptAccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="685" height="420"></embed>
</object>
</div>


Enjoy!
Posted By: Andromaque Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/10/10 05:47 PM
Hu: A combative Chopin!!
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/10/10 05:49 PM
She has good tone quality, but not so much in direction of music.
Posted By: Andromaque Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/10/10 05:55 PM
LA, we are going to have to stop agreeing.. smile
Posted By: cruiser Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/10/10 06:02 PM
Hu is having a few problems with her Op 53
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/10/10 06:37 PM
Sudo has really small hands.
Posted By: landorrano Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/10/10 06:40 PM
I've been watching a few minutes, I don't know who is playing, Sudo I think, but I find her playing quite charming.

Also, I find her technique admirable, a great deal of fingerwork from a relatively stable hand, less vertical movement than usual. An approach that corresponds well with Chopin, she's been around people who know.
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/10/10 07:01 PM
Very good! But I wished for more fire, more passion, more tension.
Posted By: izaldu Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/10/10 07:12 PM
I saw the italian girl this morning and the japanese girl later today (briefly). Both of them played tthe mazurkas way too fast and sort of valse like.

I still haven´t heard a mazurka that i really feel. Yes, note perfect and all .... but something lacks.

Regarding the first prize, if Blechacz sets the latest standard, i don't think anyone i ve seen this year comes close to him.
Posted By: landorrano Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/10/10 07:18 PM
Originally Posted by izaldu

Regarding the first prize, if Blechacz sets the latest standard, i don't think anyone i ve seen this year comes close to him.


Meself, I don't take things so seriously. I listen when I have the time, I enjoy or I find without interest. Who gets what or merits what, doesn't concern me.
Posted By: izaldu Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/10/10 07:48 PM
Fair rnough ... it sure concerns them though, and from that perspective thy approach these recitals ...

I didn t mean it as to who should win or not. Many times, competitions leave out interpreters that a lot of people think should ve continued or even won. But earlier in thread the question was made about the possibility of no 1st prize ... my Blechacz comment was just a comparison between the last winner and this year's contestants. Also, i wouldn t expect a Blechacz out of every edition of the Chopin.
Posted By: kawaifans1025 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/10/10 08:53 PM
I think only one contestant will play Allegro de Concert op.46
Posted By: mynek Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/10/10 09:50 PM
I am listening to the Polish Radio at the moment and it seems that Fei-Fei Dong is the experts' favorite today. What they are saying is that she is worth a special prize for mazurkas. Especially for her interpretation of Mazurka A minor op. 17/4

They say Chopin would be amazed by hearing her and surprised by what he composed.


They also liked Leonora Armellini very much.


Posted By: timmyab Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/11/10 01:04 AM
I don't know if anyone has pointed this out already but I've just noticed that there is now a video archive which I don't think was there before.
http://konkurs.chopin.pl/en/edition/xvi/video/archive
Posted By: BB Player Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/11/10 01:13 AM
Originally Posted by timmyab
I don't know if anyone has pointed this out already but I've just noticed that there is now a video archive which I don't think was there before.
http://konkurs.chopin.pl/en/edition/xvi/video/archive


I hadn't noticed it earlier either and I sure am glad it's there! It gives me a chance to watch the performances I missed.
Posted By: ChopinAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/11/10 01:35 AM
That's really great! Unfortunately I didn't manage to watch all performances as much as I would have wanted to, so this is a good opportunity to catch up!
Posted By: opus119 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/11/10 01:38 AM
Yes, Timmyab! I just got back from a weekend at the coast - and to my surprise, I find the archived videos from the first round.

I was just about to say that "at least the Cliburn has archived performances..." but now the Chopin Competition quality shines. Even though I don't understand a word of Polish, I am liking it much better!
Posted By: ChopinAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/11/10 01:45 AM
I am watching Nicolay right now, as I didn't have the chance to listen to this talented young performer live...
Posted By: izaldu Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/11/10 07:56 AM
i went straight to watch Kozhyainov ... whom i d missed ... he's great
Posted By: pianovirus Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/11/10 09:05 AM
Originally Posted by Andromaque
I want to confess that despite my utter ignorance of the polish language, I like this style of presentation far better than the Cliburn. Muuuuchhh less schmaltz and camera in the face of the contestant before, during and after.. Even though I do not get the comments, they seem to be focused on the details of the performance and not the sob story or the cooking prowesses of any individual..

I know, IMHO etc.. but seriously, what do you think?


I thought exactly the same thing, Andromaque!

Maybe in five years we should donate to them so they can have a live translator. Or, have some collective Piano World Polish lessons laugh
Posted By: vladimiroir Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/11/10 09:34 AM
hmm the video archive link seems to lead to the online broadcasting now:)
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/11/10 11:50 AM
That's one of the best Barcarolle I heard so far in this competition.

...and the best Andante Spianato too.
Posted By: Andromaque Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/11/10 12:04 PM
just missed bozhanov again! hope he makes it to the archives
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/11/10 12:15 PM
I think Rachel Cheung is very good. She might advance to the next round.
Posted By: timmyab Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/11/10 12:18 PM
Yes I enjoyed her playing very much as well.Mind you, the standard is crazy.
Posted By: hopinmad Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/11/10 01:04 PM
I'm only just seeing this thread now (been away from PW) and have not read through it all, so I can only hope I don't repeat what's already been said.

I've looked through a few of the video archive and I find myself really enjoying Ingolf Wunder's playing . . .

I'm sure he was in the last one too, right?

I think he's great!
Posted By: Rui725 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/11/10 02:58 PM
anyone finding the streaming really slow...?
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/11/10 03:07 PM
My video is worse than slow. It's completely dead!
Posted By: hopinmad Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/11/10 03:12 PM
Mine too.
Posted By: BruceD Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/11/10 03:14 PM
Connection seems to be down (8:15 a.m. PDT)
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/11/10 03:44 PM
wow! he messed up big time on the descending thirds.
Posted By: timmyab Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/11/10 03:47 PM
Yes I noticed that.I only caught the last ten minutes but wasn't impressed at all.Not in this company anyway.
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/11/10 04:57 PM
I think the lady said Sun played her LH in the polonaise too legato. Just guessing laugh
Posted By: babama Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/11/10 04:59 PM
is there any site with subtitles or english translation??
Posted By: wsw Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/11/10 05:01 PM
I am fortunate to be in Warsaw at present and watch live as well as attend.

Here is a great website to stay current - updated daily

http://konkurs.chopin.pl/en/edition/xvi/competition/auditions/stage/2/day/3
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/11/10 05:33 PM
You are so lucky, wsw. Hope you are having a super time there.

Welcome to the forum! smile
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/11/10 05:40 PM
I like the Mazurkas played by Yuri Shadrin.
Posted By: izaldu Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/11/10 05:44 PM
Yup Shadrin best mazurkas i ve seen so far. I think that should counta lot in a Chopin competition. ...
Posted By: BaronPiano Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/11/10 05:57 PM
Shadrin's winter wind was amazing, but I did not like his Andante Spianato at all...
Posted By: izaldu Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/11/10 06:00 PM
He's definitely one of my favourites.
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/11/10 06:00 PM
A few places in the Polonaise I did not like either. But overall, I really liked his playing.
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/11/10 06:03 PM
She has a Zoom H4!!! LOL
Posted By: pianoloverus Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/11/10 06:06 PM
I think the Op.59 Mazurkas are masterpieces, but so many of the second round pianists play them it's getting tiring.
Posted By: izaldu Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/11/10 06:07 PM
gotta love her attitude just before going up the stairs, she looked confident and happy.
Posted By: opus119 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/11/10 06:09 PM
I think Irene is just adorable. And she's no slouch at the keyboard, either!
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/11/10 06:10 PM
So many Op 24, Op 33, and Op 59.
Posted By: BruceD Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/11/10 06:11 PM
Originally Posted by izaldu
gotta love her attitude just before to going up the stairs, she looked cofident and happy.


I thought exactly the same thing, but I'm finding her initial Mazurkas very heavy in the left hand! Sometimes the right hand is even lost in the mix.

It might also be the piano: Faziolis have the reputation of (sometimes) being a little thin in the upper registers. However, she doesn't seem to be adjusting to that character.

Regards,
Posted By: fuzzy8balls Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/11/10 06:19 PM
Not really digging Ms. Veneziano's playing of the f#m polonaise. She had some really good ideas in the Mazurkas but put on too much rubato which makes a bunch of scattered phrases.

Posted By: BaronPiano Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/11/10 06:25 PM
I agree... Her mazurkas didn't seem unified enough. That is, of course, important with any piece, but it is essential to a miniature like a mazurka.
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/11/10 06:32 PM
my video is going crazy!
Posted By: breakfast shark Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/11/10 06:39 PM
so was mine, I think the stream hit a hiccup with their bandwidth available, couldn't outstream as fast as the camera was recording, too bad it was doing the climax of the ballade too.

seems to be fine now though
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/11/10 06:42 PM
Still, no one's come close to the performance of Scherzo Op 54 by Yulianna Avdeeva.
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/11/10 06:55 PM
she forgot her Zoom H4 at the hand rail! laugh
Posted By: pianoloverus Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/11/10 06:55 PM
Originally Posted by LisztAddict
my video is going crazy!
Maybe it's punishing you for going over 100 posts in one thread.
Posted By: BruceD Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/11/10 07:30 PM
Two thoughts about the F-sharp minor Polonaise :
- I thought she didn't give enough breathing space - some times none at all - between the various sections; this gave the overall impression of being rushed.

There was not enough dynamic variation - except in the Mazurka section, which was quiet enought to start with. I felt that too often she was too loud too soon with nowhere left to go, dynamically. Again, the left hand (or the piano balance) sometimes overpowered her right.

It's all relative, however; it's still playing of very high calibre.

Regards,
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/12/10 12:29 AM
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Maybe it's punishing you for going over 100 posts in one thread.


I am making up for someone who is avoiding this thread. laugh


Anyway, I listened to Nicolay Khozyainov again from the archive, I really think this guy is above all. I tried to be really picky but still I couldn't find fault from him.
Originally Posted by LisztAddict
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Maybe it's punishing you for going over 100 posts in one thread.


I am making up for someone who is avoiding this thread. laugh


Anyway, I listened to Nicolay Khozyainov again from the archive, I really think this guy is above all. I tried to be really picky but still I couldn't find fault from him.


Lol, and yes. He's my favorite, too.
Posted By: ChopinAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/12/10 04:29 AM
Originally Posted by LisztAddict
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Maybe it's punishing you for going over 100 posts in one thread.


I am making up for someone who is avoiding this thread. laugh


I think that person is practicing John Cage's 4'33" for a recital right now... laugh
Posted By: ChopinAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/12/10 04:30 AM
Originally Posted by Orange Soda King
Originally Posted by LisztAddict
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Maybe it's punishing you for going over 100 posts in one thread.


I am making up for someone who is avoiding this thread. laugh


Anyway, I listened to Nicolay Khozyainov again from the archive, I really think this guy is above all. I tried to be really picky but still I couldn't find fault from him.


Lol, and yes. He's my favorite, too.


Mine too.
Posted By: signa Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/12/10 04:48 AM
i just heard Khozyainov's, and feel that he's really "smooth". but somehow, i don't like his Nocturne, which just isn't my taste perhaps.
Posted By: GYABEAUX Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/12/10 05:21 AM
I just want to lament here that there is no way I can watch or listen to any of this live. crycrycrycrycry

I shall crawl back to the archives of the first round...
Posted By: ChopinAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/12/10 08:07 AM
Nicolay is on now! smile
Posted By: izaldu Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/12/10 08:16 AM
Him , Shadrin and Kultyshev are so far my picks. Many others that i have not seen yet, though
Nickolay is simply a king, he is!
Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/12/10 08:42 AM
He has some bits that are not my cup of tea, but he is essentialy a phenomenal pianist, especially considering his age. I have high hopes.
I love his piano, it is so enchanting, so captivating, breathtaking...
absole merit of knowing the lenght of pauses...
A comment about Nickolay Khozyainov performance from the facebook competition thread:

as a person from Poland I can tell you: His Mazurkas were very very typical folk motifs in kind of vocal of main melody and natural changing rhytm The sound was like inspired by true traditional Polish folk music. In the most… delicate, sensitive way.... like a voice of singing woman. Unbelievable kind of makieng accents. It seems to be inspired by Polish language accenting of syllables. Unbelievable effect. Rhytm was natural, was not artificial conception like in other performances. All the sounds were breathing like during singing. That's the best what one can do with Chopin. That's my opinion.
Very musical & sensitive intepretation, unusual at the competition.
Posted By: izaldu Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/12/10 10:06 AM
I think mazurkas will count a lot. They should.
Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/12/10 11:05 AM
Mei-Ting Sun is giving me chills in this round. He has an amusing neckwear too! laugh
Posted By: pianoloverus Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/12/10 01:58 PM
I'm interested in others impressions of Mei Ting Sun. I'm a big fan of his and have heard him live several times in NYC including the world premiere of his incredible Stravinsky Firebird transcription.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LN_Pq6vLdxg

I enjoyed his Chopin Competition second round a lot although I do not like the Allegro de Concert very much as a piece(but it's only the second time I've heard it).

I think he should get the earpieces of his glasses adjusted so that he doesn't need to continually push them up. He always has this problem but seemed to set a new world's record a glasses adjustment in the second round...although I don't think this should cause his immediate disqualification!

IMO there are very few pianists who seem as relaxed and happy when they play, even in a competition, as MTS. Maybe it's because his technique is so huge that he has a lot of confidence. I don't know what he really feels like inside, but he seems like the most happy go lucky guy. Saying this just as a comment, not meaning this as something the judges would consider important.



Posted By: izaldu Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/12/10 02:59 PM
I just watched some of his previous video (the one on the archive). I 'm not sure .. his 0p.10/1 and 2 were a bit odd ... he is great at times but not all the time ... i would need to listen more.

I loved what he said in the interview, asked whether he was satisfied with this morning s performance, he said no, interviewer says you re not happy? and he says something like, happy yes, but satisfied , you re never satisfied (it was being translated to plish on top of the audio so mayeb these weren't the exact words.
Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/12/10 03:12 PM
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
I'm interested in others impressions of Mei Ting Sun. I'm a big fan of his and have heard him live several times in NYC including the world premiere of his incredible Stravinsky Firebird transcription.


I believe that's why looks so confident. Not only does he possess huge technique, but is also experienced with playing on stage (also coping with stage fright, stress, audience). For many other pianists the competition was the first place to play such a long recital. Some of them have no or little concert career under their belt.

That helps a lot, I believe. Being relaxed and comfortable virtually always results in better performances.

As for his performances - I enjoyed the 2nd stage MUCH more than the 1st. For my taste he is a bit flashy and virtuosic, I sometimes would like a little more restrained approach in interpretations, but this time he really moved me and I was watching with my mouth open.


M.
Posted By: pianoloverus Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/12/10 03:12 PM
Russian Justin Bieber look alike performing now.
Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/12/10 03:13 PM
AAAA laughing loud laugh
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Russian Justin Bieber look alike performing now.

hahah diz BIEBERMAN.....da HARSH TONE

unlegendary coda of 4th BALLADE. Many wrong notes and HARSH TONE. I predict he not get through 2nd round.
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/12/10 03:53 PM
and the Mazurkas were so un-mazurka.

My 2 favorites are up next!
Posted By: fuzzy8balls Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/12/10 05:18 PM
LOL @ Justin Bieber comment pianolover!
Posted By: fuzzy8balls Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/12/10 05:22 PM
Damn, she is playing this waltz really really well!!!
Posted By: cruiser Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/12/10 05:30 PM
Damn, she is playing this waltz really really fast!!! grin
Posted By: pianoloverus Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/12/10 05:51 PM
Originally Posted by JustAnotherPianist
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Russian Justin Bieber look alike performing now.

hahah diz BIEBERMAN.....da HARSH TONE

unlegendary coda of 4th BALLADE. Many wrong notes and HARSH TONE. I predict he not get through 2nd round.
Sounds like you're a member of SDC?
Posted By: fuzzy8balls Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/12/10 05:53 PM
Everything Yulianna played so far was great, including her Scherzo right now. The Polonaise is gonna be epic coming up!!! o(>__<)o
Posted By: pianoloverus Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/12/10 05:57 PM
Some of my favorites from the second round(I usually only watch the pianists who play from 17:00 and later each day):Mei Ting Sun, Ilya Rashkovskiy, Bozhanov(as long as I don't watch), Da Sol Kim, Gilbert.

I think the camera work in the Chopin Competition is better than in the Cliburn Competition. They don't spend so much time focusing on the face close up and from the front. The camera also switches between views from the right and left side of the piano and is at the perfect angle. Many close ups of just the hands also...perfect to look at and learn the contestant's technique.

I just wish that next time they'll have a English and other languages translater for the extensive online commentary.
Posted By: Frozenicicles Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/12/10 06:09 PM
Wow, Argerich straightened her hair.
Posted By: fuzzy8balls Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/12/10 06:12 PM
Ok, my favorite Marcin Koziak is on!!!
Posted By: MegumiNoda Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/12/10 06:13 PM
OK, I admit this is a silly comment, but I'm glad to see Yulianna wearing something sharp and sensible, not yet another puffy princess dress.

I like her music too.
Posted By: Julian_ Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/12/10 06:19 PM
Originally Posted by Frozenicicles
Wow, Argerich straightened her hair.
I've had a stressful day so thanks for giving me the best belly laugh I've had in ages!
Posted By: pianoloverus Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/12/10 06:26 PM
What are your opinions of the 4 different pianos being used?

I like them all very much. I don't hear that much difference between them except that IMO the Fazioli is a little more brilliant/clearer than the other three(not saying if that's a plus or not).
Posted By: landorrano Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/12/10 06:29 PM
Able to catch a few minutes of Koziak, very nice, this fellow has something to say.
Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/12/10 06:29 PM
All three have very different "bass profile", so to speak. They sound so different under differents hands though that it is really difficult do judge pianos, I really love all of them laugh
Posted By: Butters109 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/12/10 06:32 PM
This op 33 no 4 is really mediocre in my opinion. Maybe I'm just biased because of the Horowitz version.
Posted By: pianoloverus Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/12/10 06:35 PM
Originally Posted by Mati
All three have very different "bass profile", so to speak.
Can you explain more what you mean by this?
Posted By: fuzzy8balls Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/12/10 06:37 PM
Poor Koziak, didn't know he was a sweater hehe
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/12/10 06:48 PM
A polite guy. He turned away to wipe his sweat.
Posted By: fuzzy8balls Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/12/10 07:01 PM
Great Polonaise!!!
Posted By: yok Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/12/10 07:04 PM
Interesting observation of how the jury listen from the Gramophone magazine's blogger at the competition:

http://www.gramophone.co.uk/blog/chopin-competition-live/jury-watching
Posted By: pianoloverus Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/12/10 07:04 PM
Originally Posted by fuzzy8balls
Great Polonaise!!!
His octave middle section even out did Mei Ting Sun...oh no! I didn't really mean that...can I take it back?
Posted By: izaldu Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/12/10 07:05 PM
Koziak was goooood
Posted By: fuzzy8balls Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/12/10 07:07 PM
U know his playing wasn't perfect but it was exciting and brilliant to listen to. I perfer Koziak to Avdeeva. Absolutely marvelous!!! o(>___<)o
Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/12/10 07:20 PM
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by Mati
All three have very different "bass profile", so to speak.
Can you explain more what you mean by this?


Sure, if only I can. For me, the most notable - and audible from the first second - difference is in the bass. Whereas both Steinway and Shigeru have very textured bass, with many harmonics and complex sound, in Yamaha and Fazioli the fundamental frequency is heard much more clearly.

I literally can tell when Yamaha is in use, the sound of the bass notes is very characteristic. Powerful, a bit boomy, with very clear and pronounced base frequency sound. The same goes for Fazioli, which is even more precise and literally "cuts the air" with it's pointy, crystal-like bass.

It is more difficult for me to tell Kawai and Steinway apart, they are both very complex sounding in the bass notes. Very rich texture.

The difference is... hm, if I were to describe how I "see" these pianos, it would go like that:

- Yamaha: hardwood floor, clean, crisp, clear
- Fazioli: crystal-like glass floor, extremely crisp and precise, cutting like a knife
- Kawai & Steinway: rich persian carpets

laugh
Posted By: hopinmad Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/12/10 07:54 PM
Completely agree about Yulianna, she was great.
Posted By: signa Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/13/10 01:46 AM
http://konkurs.chopin.pl/en/edition/xvi/competition/magazine

there're some interesting articles about each day's performance and some interviews on those magazines, if anyone would like reading.
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/13/10 02:27 AM
Major cool! thanks signa. smile
Posted By: hopinmad Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/13/10 06:28 AM
Opus 1 this morning! Excellent! Not heard it yet!
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/13/10 11:22 AM
Oh man....I missed that! frown
Posted By: signa Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/13/10 12:08 PM
don't like this Franch guy that much. Fazioli doesn't sound too good under his fingers, at least to my ears.

got to run...
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/13/10 12:13 PM
I felt like he was pulling back too much.
Posted By: Sir Gawain Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/13/10 02:49 PM
Guys, forgive me, I am neither a pianist nor a musicologist, so my summaries of the 23:00 HRS Polish Radio discussions of the day's auditions are likely to focus on the funny or the snide rather than the musicologically relevant, but I am going to try to avoid this problem when I summarize every discussion from now on; my summaries should appear on my blog around noon Central European time on my blog:

http://humidfruit.wordpress.com

cheers
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/13/10 03:13 PM
Xin Tong's accuracy is somewhat on the low side.
Posted By: timmyab Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/13/10 03:41 PM
I've heard about half of the 2nd round contestants and he's only the second pianist that's a definite no for me.Still love to be able to play half as well as him though.
Posted By: Sir Gawain Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/13/10 03:56 PM
Gad... how did this guy make it this far??
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/13/10 04:00 PM
He was much better in the first round. I guess pressure got to him.
Posted By: opus119 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/13/10 04:27 PM
Andrew is playing sooooo well! Yeah!
Posted By: opus119 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/13/10 05:02 PM
Boy, they are really piling on Andrew Tyson, apparently. Even on the facebook page! I actually enjoyed his playing. Yes, he's a little bit over-the-top, but at least he has some personality. I guess you need to play it very safe in competitions.

Re: the first pianist (before Andrew - from China). He was obviously very nervous. Also, his program was weird...ending with non-climactic Mazurkas. Not very good programming.
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/13/10 05:23 PM
I wouldn't say one should play "safe" in competitions. But this is a Chopin competition, and there are correct ways and incorrect ways of playing Mazurkas and Polonaises.

Andrew Tyson played very clean, he has good tones. But the music didn't flow well.
Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/13/10 05:29 PM
He played very clean, but he wasn't very faithful to the score, nor to the nature and flow of polonaise and mazurkas dances. Adding octaves, leaving out legato, playing 16ths as appogiaturas, disrupting the tempo in Barcarolle, playing the mazurka like waltz - these were the few things they mentioned.
Posted By: fuzzy8balls Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/13/10 05:34 PM
I think just Zhdanov just gave me the chills playing that one high transition passage from the g-minor ballade
Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/13/10 05:34 PM
Fuzzy8balls: where are you listening to the competition? I wonder why do I have a delay, he is playing the opening ascending arpeggions here. laugh
Posted By: fuzzy8balls Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/13/10 05:39 PM
Ballade just finished and I think Zhdanov just gave me an orgasm. You're probably just buffered, depends on your internet connection and they may have multiple streaming servers and depends on which one you're connected to.
Posted By: Victor25 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/13/10 05:40 PM
I liked it, but not so much as the fuzz-man.
Posted By: bellamusica Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/13/10 05:53 PM
Zhdanov's ballade seemed kind of uneven to me. There were moments where his phrasing was absolutely exquisite, but there were other places where it felt stiff and robotic. But he is definitely better than the last two so far.
Posted By: fuzzy8balls Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/13/10 06:07 PM
I love Zhdanov's phrasing. He's playing a bit dirtier on the f#m polonaise but I forgive him, he's great! Also he's quite handsome fellow too.
Posted By: Victor25 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/13/10 06:24 PM
Now this is a Ballade I loved!!

I'm jealous of her playing ability and style.
Posted By: Andromaque Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/13/10 09:17 PM
So when are they supposed to announce those who advance to the 3rd stage?
Posted By: MegumiNoda Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/13/10 09:40 PM
supposedly at 23:40 (5:40 Eastern), but they are running late, so in another half an hour or so?

There is live radio broadcast:
http://www.polskieradio.pl/Player/Stacja/2,Dwojka
Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/13/10 09:56 PM
I sooo disagree with the results frown

Leonora Armellini, Yulianna Avdeeva, Evgeni Bozhanov, Wai-Ching Rachel Cheung, Fei-Fei Dong, François Dumont, Lukas Geniušas, Jayson Gillham, Claire Huangci, Nicolay Khozyainov, Marcin Koziak, Miroslav Kultyshev, Yury Shadrin, Mei-Ting Sun, Daniil Trifonov, Hélène Tysman, Andrew Tyson, Irene Veneziano, Paweł Wakarecy, Ingolf Wunder
She walked away from that jury in support of Pogorelich's playing at the competition...
Posted By: hopinmad Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/13/10 10:07 PM
I missed it as well in the end (keep forgetting I'm an hour behind) but did catch Ingolf Wunder, who was amazing again.
Posted By: MegumiNoda Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/13/10 10:08 PM
Who would you have liked to see in the list instead?

I was surprised by the outcomes: didn't think Tyson (or either of the other Americans) was going to make it. The ones I liked not picked: Leonard Gilbert, Da Sol Kim, and Jacek Kortus.

Posted By: hopinmad Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/13/10 10:11 PM
I only heard Tyson's barcararolle, just after the Chinese pianist's one; I much preferred the latter (he ended his programme on Mazurkas, strangely :S).

Standard is so good though, almost everyone I heard I though could go through. I thought Jack Kortus would have gone through though.
Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/13/10 10:13 PM
I seriously miss Da Sol Kim, Fedorova, Kortus and Bracha on this list. I don't understand why Veneziano and Tyson are in. For some others I have mixed feelings.
Posted By: fuzzy8balls Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/13/10 10:27 PM
Mati, how'd you get the results so fast? I don't even see it on the website!
Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/13/10 10:30 PM
Listening to the radio. They were posted soon afterwards on the National Frederic Chopin Institute facebook page - it's perhaps the most active place for the competition. Multiple discussions, real-time commentary in english and much more.
Posted By: fuzzy8balls Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/13/10 10:33 PM
lol yeah I see it now... I'm TRYING as hard as I can not to facebook while I'm in the office!!! LOL =)
Posted By: izaldu Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/13/10 10:55 PM
Gilbert and Shadrin not through? damn!


btw Mati, since i keep reading that the mazurka should be played reminiscent of the original polish dances, can we utube some original (not piano) mazurka dances?
Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/13/10 11:05 PM
Shadrin is in. smile

Aneta Bukowska on NIFC facebook page found some very interesting videos, I will repost these here as she did wonderful job.

Quote

And polonez from the beautiful cinema version of the greatest romantic Polish poemat written by Mickiewicz of the early 19th century. A bit of Chopin's Poland from his times in there. Chopin was close friend of writer Mickiewicz:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vq-VmzcJa3Y


Quote

Kujawiak (the first slow dance) & Oberek (second one, very fast).
These motifs also appear often in Chopin's mazurkas:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-C8VV5lhHI&feature=related


Quote

The proper, typical Polish Masovian (Warsaw province) Mazurkas: (starting ca. 2:45). That's performance presenting the beginning of 19th century smile

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzaXi53yO9g&feature=related


Quote

Proper old style polonaise at the performance, if are interested:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVbtSCYQ-YM
Posted By: signa Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/14/10 12:30 AM
the result is posted on the site now. did anyone notice there are no pianists from Korea or Japan made it on the list, unlike QEC.
Posted By: Rui725 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/14/10 12:44 AM
oh my, so much drama on the facebook page. Now with the pianists themselves commenting too.

I guess its better not to be so brash with the actual pianists commenting on the facebook page. Andrew Tyson quickly deleted his comments.
Posted By: Pianaxo Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/14/10 01:11 AM
What did Tyson say about the harsh criticism?
Posted By: MegumiNoda Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/14/10 01:12 AM
Yeah, I feel bad for him. Unlike young athletes, these young pianists probably haven't had much training in dealing with the public. They may have received tough reviews from juries, but it's not the same thing as getting oodles of unfair statements from the public at large. Someone should have warned him against reading any review until the whole thing is done.
Posted By: Rui725 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/14/10 01:29 AM
Originally Posted by Pianaxo
What did Tyson say about the harsh criticism?


Said something making him want to jump out the window and not even want to play in the 3rd round.

Edit: Even Facebook fans were lashing out at Tyson. I really hope this doesn't make him change his intentions for the next round. MegumiNoda, you're right, plus these pianists are still quite young..
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/14/10 01:38 AM
Originally Posted by signa
the result is posted on the site now. did anyone notice there are no pianists from Korea or Japan made it on the list, unlike QEC.


Yes, very unusual.
Posted By: bellamusica Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/14/10 01:59 AM
Originally Posted by Rui725
Originally Posted by Pianaxo
What did Tyson say about the harsh criticism?


Said something making him want to jump out the window and not even want to play in the 3rd round.

Edit: Even Facebook fans were lashing out at Tyson. I really hope this doesn't make him change his intentions for the next round. MegumiNoda, you're right, plus these pianists are still quite young..


That is terrible. I feel really bad for these extremely talented young artists having to endure such harsh criticisms, mostly from people who would never have a prayer of being able to match half of their accomplishments. mad

All the people on facebook who are sitting and making snide comments about how unsatisfactory they find all the performances would do well to remember that they are the ones sitting on their butts on facebook, while they people they are criticizing are the ones competing in an international competition (and mostly all prizewinners in multiple other competitions, not to mention budding concert artists in their own right).

That said, the competitors know they are participating in a very public, high-profile event, and they should be prepared for this kind of stuff and know to ignore it (although that is easier said than done).
Posted By: Pianaxo Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/14/10 02:13 AM
Originally Posted by Rui725
Originally Posted by Pianaxo
What did Tyson say about the harsh criticism?


Said something making him want to jump out the window and not even want to play in the 3rd round.

Edit: Even Facebook fans were lashing out at Tyson. I really hope this doesn't make him change his intentions for the next round. MegumiNoda, you're right, plus these pianists are still quite young..


Wow... He really took it hard. That's very unfortunate. I hope it doesn't affect him too negatively. People are so inconsiderate to judge people who've worked so hard and put in so much effort.
Posted By: signa Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/14/10 02:15 AM
those competitors should stay away from facebook and media, and should isolate themselves from the outside world or critics or whoever talking on TV or internet about them. wait until the competition is over to read anyone else says. they should just forget about anything else except playing Chopin!
Posted By: kcostell Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/14/10 03:17 AM
Next round the competitors have to perform one of Chopin's 3 sonatas. Not a single one picked the C-minor 1st sonata.

The male pianists picked the B-minor 3rd sonata by an 11-3 margin.

The female pianists picked the B-flat minor 2nd sonata by a 5-1 margin.
Posted By: BaronPiano Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/14/10 04:20 AM
Very interesting observations!
Posted By: hopinmad Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/14/10 08:18 AM
Such an impressive start this morning!

Can anyone tell me how to find the facebook page? What to search? I can't find it. Thanks.
Posted By: izaldu Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/14/10 08:48 AM
Originally Posted by Mati
Shadrin is in. smile

Aneta Bukowska on NIFC facebook page found some very interesting videos, I will repost these here as she did wonderful job.

Quote

And polonez from the beautiful cinema version of the greatest romantic Polish poemat written by Mickiewicz of the early 19th century. A bit of Chopin's Poland from his times in there. Chopin was close friend of writer Mickiewicz:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vq-VmzcJa3Y


Quote

Kujawiak (the first slow dance) & Oberek (second one, very fast).
These motifs also appear often in Chopin's mazurkas:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-C8VV5lhHI&feature=related


Quote

The proper, typical Polish Masovian (Warsaw province) Mazurkas: (starting ca. 2:45). That's performance presenting the beginning of 19th century smile

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzaXi53yO9g&feature=related


Quote

Proper old style polonaise at the performance, if are interested:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVbtSCYQ-YM


Brilliant, thanks Mati, will check them when i get back home
Posted By: izaldu Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/14/10 08:52 AM
Originally Posted by signa
those competitors should stay away from facebook and media, and should isolate themselves from the outside world or critics or whoever talking on TV or internet about them. wait until the competition is over to read anyone else says. they should just forget about anything else except playing Chopin!


Exactly ... no need to expose yourself to that kind of nonsense in such a transcendental moment.
Posted By: ChopinAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/14/10 08:57 AM
Originally Posted by hopinmad
Such an impressive start this morning!

Can anyone tell me how to find the facebook page? What to search? I can't find it. Thanks.


I think this is it.
Posted By: izaldu Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/14/10 09:05 AM
Some of the comments posted in there are just ... well, this is a family forum.
Posted By: Rui725 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/14/10 09:08 AM
Originally Posted by izaldu
Some of the comments posted in there are just ... well, this is a family forum.


Online community, well....
good thing most here have never played a video game online before..
Posted By: yhc Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/14/10 09:14 AM
I've just checked the playing lists. It seems almost everyone picks op.61, then follows by a sonata. Is it by design or mere coincidence?
Posted By: Mostly Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/14/10 09:17 AM
Have those facebook people no shame or no manners ?
Indeed the competitors would do well to stay away from this. I can't imagine the effect such negative criticism might have on a pianist in such a competition (it's a once or twice in a lifetime event for them !), especially when he probably invested several years in it - not even considering the life he dedicated to piano and music.

I've wrote it earlier, but I'm amazed at how nervous they seem before the performances, pacing in the hall restlessly ; like they need virtual nobodies to make them feel even more insecure !

It's no wonder many professionals pianists break down when the audience has such horrible human beings in it ; I wouldn't think commentaries on the Chopin Competition would devolve to the level of a Youtube commentary page ("Argerich sux, she playz fast, no feelin at all, Gould iz the ballz".)

Geez.

Anyways, looking forward to the sonatas ; I much prefer the second though :p Hope the contestants aren't bothered too much by the commentaries.
Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/14/10 09:17 AM
Everyone has to play the Op. 61 and one of the sonatas. Else is up to their discretion.
Posted By: yhc Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/14/10 09:27 AM
Originally Posted by Mati
Everyone has to play the Op. 61 and one of the sonatas. Else is up to their discretion.


Thanks!!
Posted By: izaldu Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/14/10 09:38 AM
Mostly, i totally agree. I find it hard to believe that the organization didn t think of this when setting up a live fb page. It's a disgrace. It s not much better that those idiotic flamewars on youtube.

Poor Tyson ...i hope he gets over it
Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/14/10 10:10 AM
They couldn't have done anything. If they wouldn't make that page, someone else would - internet community is strong enough not to need any help from organiation.

Having that page made by themseles, they have at least possibility of providing some feedback, translations, results and other important info on the fly.

From my point of view, they did a wonderful job setting up this Facebook page.

Discussions are pretty much like everywhere - some very valuable restrained comments, some sharp as sharks looking for the victim. It's no different elsewhere.
Posted By: Victor25 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/14/10 10:18 AM
Daniil was awesome
Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/14/10 10:32 AM
He was one of my favourites from the very beginning and still holds the position.
Posted By: hopinmad Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/14/10 10:50 AM
Thank you.
Posted By: pianoloverus Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/14/10 12:26 PM
Originally Posted by izaldu
btw Mati, since i keep reading that the mazurka should be played reminiscent of the original polish dances, can we utube some original (not piano) mazurka dances?
Keep on hearing from who? And what does "reminisicent of" mean? Remember that the the jury didn't always agree with the online commentators and were sometimes diametrically opposed. The online commentators are just three people's opinions.
Posted By: Sir Gawain Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/14/10 12:28 PM
tyson has to learn to take it -- public persons get that all the time
it's hard to take it if you are a sensitive person, as most pianists are, but hey, it's life

also, tyson's bound to be controversial -- especially in Europe -- his "creative individuality" is a little too creative for the old continent: we allow a lot less room for that kind of stuff here; and -- i suspect his pedagogues have not had the ability (or perhaps will, you know americans, "native genius of the child" and all) to give shape to his free spirit
Posted By: Sir Gawain Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/14/10 12:29 PM
oh, god, leonora's sonata isn't good at all!
Posted By: hopinmad Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/14/10 12:53 PM
I'm watching her Grande Polonaise but missed her sonata and polonaise fantasie. The polonaise is good, and she was good in the previous round, shame her sonata wasn't good then.
Posted By: cast12 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/14/10 12:57 PM
How was Kultyshev's performance today? It was on too early for me to watch.
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/14/10 01:00 PM
Originally Posted by cast12
How was Kultyshev's performance today? It was on too early for me to watch.


It wasn't very good, IMO.
Posted By: Mostly Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/14/10 01:12 PM
Originally Posted by Sir Gawain
Guys, forgive me, I am neither a pianist nor a musicologist, so my summaries of the 23:00 HRS Polish Radio discussions of the day's auditions are likely to focus on the funny or the snide rather than the musicologically relevant, but I am going to try to avoid this problem when I summarize every discussion from now on; my summaries should appear on my blog around noon Central European time on my blog:

http://humidfruit.wordpress.com

cheers

Thanks for the quick translation, and oh boy, are they harsh !

What do you guys think about the first element that was translated there :
"The bulletin opened with a discussion of the perceived inability of all of the participants who performed yesterday (Oct 12, 2010) to read and interpret the score, a failing which it was generally agreed was on the rise in the profession in general."
It's a really strong criticism... By "reading and interpreting", do they mean the musical analysis of the score (eg : making "harmonically sound" judgements) and the respect of written rhythm, dynamics, ... ? That seems to be pretty basic, and something any concert level performer would have a firm grasp on, no ? I mean, they've all had rigorous training in those areas.
Posted By: izaldu Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/14/10 01:12 PM
plus ... from the online commentators - who happen to be polish too and i guess have some knowledge even if they re not the jury.
Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/14/10 01:41 PM
Not only from them. Chopin's mazurkas ARE the dances, and therefore they have very characteristic and typical to that dance sense of rhythm, accentuation and tempo rubato.

That is the main reason why mazurkas are considered pieces very difficult to play correctly and are the workhorses during this competition, and during diploma exams in our universities. When you look at the programme it comes pretty clear why polonaise, waltz and mazurka are stacked together - playing them closely aparat shows very well the understanding of these genres and differences between them.

It is very important not to blend a mazurka into a waltz (which is often tempting and very often heard).

The commentators fully agree on this, but it is not basically their opinion. I'm not familiar with English books on this subject, though. I am pretty sure this topic is broadly covered in books on Mazurkas, 19th music and Chopin in general.
Posted By: Sir Gawain Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/14/10 01:52 PM
i think what the commentators were commenting upon were two things: what sounded like mistakes (wrong notes, wrong tempi, etc.) -- in the sense of just being WRONG, i.e. misread; but possibly also interpreting liberties in violation of the score (that's just my guess)
Posted By: Sir Gawain Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/14/10 01:54 PM
mati

i think the importance of the mazurka is underscored by the existence of the special mazurka price -- they really want you to get the mazurka right
Posted By: Victor25 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/14/10 03:49 PM
Ok the faces of that Chinese girl are just too much.

If we can't put emotions in our playing, put them in our face :|
Posted By: gaoyuanyuan1 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/14/10 04:09 PM
I actually think her playing is expressive though. I
n the last movement of the sonata she somehow lost control a little bit.
Posted By: Sir Gawain Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/14/10 04:16 PM
Wow, huangci's 2nd sonata is incredible
Posted By: pianoloverus Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/14/10 04:20 PM
Originally Posted by izaldu
plus ... from the online commentators - who happen to be polish too and i guess have some knowledge even if they re not the jury.
The online commentators may have may have good knowledge, but when the jury chooses a pianist not liked by the commentators, I think this shows that the commentators have opinions only. IMO there is not one correct way to play a Mazurka or Chopin in general. One only has to listen to the many different great performances by the great Mazurka players to see this.

Exactly what do you think the pianists who played Mazurkas incorrectly did wrong? I don't think it's "brain surgery" knowing what things should be done when one plays a Mazurka. Nor do I think the teachers of the huge majority of contestants fail to understand what's needed for a good Mazurka performance or lack the ability to explain that to their students.
Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/14/10 05:47 PM
Quote

IMO there is not one correct way to play a Mazurka or Chopin in general.


Of course! But there are incorrect ways.

Quote

One only has to listen to the many different great performances by the great Mazurka players to see this.


And one will only hear performances faithful to the mazurka rhythm. No acclaimed Mazurka performer takes liberty at that.

Quote

Exactly what do you think the pianists who played Mazurkas incorrectly did wrong?


Those, who played them incorrectly put emphasis on the first beat with clearly heard waltz rhythmic feel (OOM-pa-pa). I believe there are other factors too, my ear and understanding of these pieces is not good enough to discern the features though.

Quote

Nor do I think the teachers of the huge majority of contestants fail to understand what's needed for a good Mazurka performance or lack the ability to explain that to their students.


I don't remember anyone talking about majority? Those who were accused of INCORRECT peformances were single exceptions, not the majority. Criticism of others was quite subtle.


M.
Posted By: pianoloverus Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/14/10 07:59 PM
Double post
Posted By: Victor25 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/14/10 09:11 PM
Some of them CLEARLY missed the 2nd beat accent, which is the basic of a mazurka. OTOH, ofcourse you are right that they are some of the best on the planet, and their playing is remarkable. That said, I know what they mean when they said their mazurka's weren't mazurka's.
Posted By: Kuanpiano Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/14/10 09:25 PM
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
izaldu: The commentators may be knowledgable, but I think the fact that the jury has strongly disagreed with them at times shows that there is much subjectivity involved. I don't think there is only one correct way to play a Mazurka or any Chopin work. I think the huge differences in performances of the Mazurkas by the "great Mazurka players" support this idea.

The contestants are among the best young pianists on the planet and have the best teachers and attend the best conservatories. I don't think it's reasonable to think that these teachers don't know what's necessary to give a good Mazurka performance or they can't successfully teach this to their students.

Are there specific things that you feel many of the competitors missed in their Mazurka performances? Specific things the online commentators said?

I know you've criticized people here for giving harsh criticism to professionals due to our lack of "standing", but in this case you're dealing with professionals dealing with other professionals....

Just my opinion, just because a pianist has the best teacher, is one of the best young pianists in the world, has a fantastic resume,etc, doesn't mean they can play this kind of music correctly. This includes all folk music, or ethnic music, like Albeniz as well.
Posted By: pianoloverus Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/14/10 09:30 PM
I hereby officially excuse all workers of the world to take one hour off from work tommorrow to watch Mei Ting Sun play(11 am Eastern Standard Time).

I'll also send $1 to everyone reading this thread if MTS doesn't push up his glasses more than five times.
Posted By: Victor25 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/14/10 09:41 PM
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
I hereby officially excuse all workers of the world to take one hour off from work tommorrow to watch Mei Ting Sun play(11 am Eastern Standard Time).


I'm in! (no really, I'm off all day tomorrow, I love my job)
Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/14/10 09:52 PM
I feel excused and hereby I declare I am going to hear him tommorrow LIVE!
Posted By: pianoloverus Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/14/10 09:52 PM
Originally Posted by Mati
Originally Posted by Pianoloverus
Exactly what do you think the pianists who played Mazurkas incorrectly did wrong?


Those, who played them incorrectly put emphasis on the first beat with clearly heard waltz rhythmic feel
I think that, although there are different kinds of Mazurkas, the main difference between a Mazurka and a Waltz is the accent on the second or third beat. There are degrees of accent, so saying a pianist played a Mazurka like a Waltz is subjective unless they pounded out the first between compared to the second or third. IMO the appropriate amount of accent, whether on the second or third beat, would depend on the partciular Mazurka. I think there is still an accent on the first beat in a Mazurka, just not as pronounced as in a waltz.

Whatever the correct thought about the main difference between a Mazurka and Waltz is, do you really think the contestants and their teachers are unaware of this? It's not some secret or highly advanced topic.


Originally Posted by Mati
Originally Posted by Pianoloverus
Nor do I think the teachers of the huge majority of contestants fail to understand what's needed for a good Mazurka performance or lack the ability to explain that to their students.


I don't remember anyone talking about majority? Those who were accused of INCORRECT peformances were single exceptions, not the majority. Criticism of others was quite subtle.
Maybe I'm confusing the criticsm with PW posters criticsm about the Mazurkas. I do recall someone saying or quoting the online panel that the majority of contestants didn't know how to play a Mazurka.
Posted By: pianoloverus Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/14/10 10:11 PM
Originally Posted by Kuanpiano
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
izaldu: The commentators may be knowledgable, but I think the fact that the jury has strongly disagreed with them at times shows that there is much subjectivity involved. I don't think there is only one correct way to play a Mazurka or any Chopin work. I think the huge differences in performances of the Mazurkas by the "great Mazurka players" support this idea.

The contestants are among the best young pianists on the planet and have the best teachers and attend the best conservatories. I don't think it's reasonable to think that these teachers don't know what's necessary to give a good Mazurka performance or they can't successfully teach this to their students.

Are there specific things that you feel many of the competitors missed in their Mazurka performances? Specific things the online commentators said?

I know you've criticized people here for giving harsh criticism to professionals due to our lack of "standing", but in this case you're dealing with professionals dealing with other professionals....

Just my opinion, just because a pianist has the best teacher, is one of the best young pianists in the world, has a fantastic resume,etc, doesn't mean they can play this kind of music correctly. This includes all folk music, or ethnic music, like Albeniz as well.
I would give more credibility to the panel of professionals than non professional posters. My objection was that I think they said most of the contestants didn't know how to play Mazurkas. I don't think being a top young pianist with a great teacher guarantees someone will play a Mazurka "correctly", but I think the chances of this happening are fairly small.

Your point about including Albeniz with other folk music is interesting. I always felt de Laroccha's playing of Albeniz(but also all Spanish and even non Spanish music) had some rhythmic quality(I can't put into words) that was one its main assets.
Posted By: pianoloverus Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/14/10 10:16 PM
Originally Posted by Mati
Mei-Ting Sun is giving me chills in this round. He has an amusing neckwear too! laugh
Amusing or just colorful? I couldn't see it that clearly or didn't look closely enough. He is the only pianist I saw that wore a colorful tie(some wore no tie). I don't know if is really appropriate for such a competition but I don't think it's enough for automatic disqualification. It looked better than the other American's skinny tie with a button down collar.
Posted By: Victor25 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/14/10 10:19 PM
Disqualification? For not wearing a tie??

That would be most ridiculous, Gulda has already proven its worth of one's clothes during a performance laugh!
Posted By: hopinmad Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/14/10 11:48 PM
Tomorrow evening couldn't be better IMO!
Posted By: Rui725 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/15/10 12:41 AM
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by Mati
Mei-Ting Sun is giving me chills in this round. He has an amusing neckwear too! laugh
Amusing or just colorful? I couldn't see it that clearly or didn't look closely enough. He is the only pianist I saw that wore a colorful tie(some wore no tie). I don't know if is really appropriate for such a competition but I don't think it's enough for automatic disqualification. It looked better than the other American's skinny tie with a button down collar.


Skinny tie is how young people dress these days...I love it and do the same...
Posted By: Andromaque Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/15/10 01:38 AM
I did not get to listen to all today, except for Evgenyi Bozhanov..I made time for him, right in my trusty Outlook calendar !! I thought he was terrific, and I really really like him. He is to me what Mei Ting is to PLUS.. laugh

Oh and, is it just me or is his mannerism somewhat less intense???
Posted By: ChopinAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/15/10 08:05 AM
Originally Posted by Victor25
Some of them CLEARLY missed the 2nd beat accent, which is the basic of a mazurka. OTOH, ofcourse you are right that they are some of the best on the planet, and their playing is remarkable. That said, I know what they mean when they said their mazurka's weren't mazurka's.


There are even accents of the third beat... Mazurkas are full of energy...
That said, I cannot imagine they don't know, maybe they were too nervous and just made some mistakes.
Posted By: Victor25 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/15/10 08:07 AM
You are right of course! However as soon as I hear the first beat as most pronounced, I lose the mazurka feel.
Posted By: izaldu Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/15/10 09:14 AM
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by izaldu
plus ... from the online commentators - who happen to be polish too and i guess have some knowledge even if they re not the jury.
The online commentators may have may have good knowledge, but when the jury chooses a pianist not liked by the commentators, I think this shows that the commentators have opinions only. IMO there is not one correct way to play a Mazurka or Chopin in general. One only has to listen to the many different great performances by the great Mazurka players to see this.

Exactly what do you think the pianists who played Mazurkas incorrectly did wrong? I don't think it's "brain surgery" knowing what things should be done when one plays a Mazurka. Nor do I think the teachers of the huge majority of contestants fail to understand what's needed for a good Mazurka performance or lack the ability to explain that to their students.


Like i said, i don't know what a "correct" mazurka consists on. But i do know which i like and which i don't. I know when they turn them into valses, and i know that is not correct, even thopugh it may still sound good.

Kind of a similar thing when i hear people singing or playing flamenco. I have known the style from a very young age, na there are rules to each dance. They are not written, but you know when it's right and when it's not.
Posted By: Victor25 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/15/10 09:19 AM
Do you guys like Wai-Ching?
Posted By: Victor25 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/15/10 09:22 AM
Yury Shadrin is out! He's ill!
Posted By: izaldu Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/15/10 09:22 AM
Im at work, i can 't hear anything - this sucks
Posted By: izaldu Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/15/10 09:24 AM
Are u serious about Shadrin? What a downer, i really liked him!
Posted By: ChopinAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/15/10 09:29 AM
Well, you sure have to in very good health to go through so many rounds day after day in a foreign environment...
Anyway, could he have played tomorrow if he had wanted to?
Posted By: Victor25 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/15/10 09:41 AM
Not sure, but he is definitely out. The announcer said that he was ill, but I read online that he has a hand injury.
Posted By: hopinmad Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/15/10 11:14 AM
At least there's more op.35 today.
Posted By: hopinmad Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/15/10 11:35 AM
The standard is so good now! I've enjoyed each pianist in this round so much.
Posted By: hopinmad Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/15/10 12:33 PM
But I enjoyed Irene Venezaio's sonata much more than Nikolay Khozyainov . . .
Posted By: Victor25 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/15/10 12:36 PM
He sure is passionate, but there is not much subtlety in his performance.
Posted By: Rjt Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/15/10 12:41 PM
I too really like Irene Venezaio. I thought she was very strong in the first round, but less good in the second. I was pleased she made it through. I haven't seen her third round performance, but look forward to catching the archive video - glad to hear she is playing well this round.
Posted By: ChopinAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/15/10 12:41 PM
I preferred Leonora (who played yesterday) to Irene...
Posted By: Victor25 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/15/10 12:42 PM
So did Fidelio!
Posted By: ChopinAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/15/10 12:45 PM
Originally Posted by Victor25
So did Fidelio!


laugh
Posted By: pianoloverus Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/15/10 02:07 PM
Less than an hour to Mei Ting Sun's third round peformance. Should be the most watched thing since the first moon landing or OJ verdict.
Posted By: hopinmad Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/15/10 02:08 PM
I didn't see her first rounds, and didn't see the beginning of her programme today, but what I saw was good.

I thought Leonara was great too.
Posted By: Victor25 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/15/10 03:05 PM
HERE WE GO

Too bad I am missing WUNDER's performance AGAIN! I'm in the car when he performs, but I'm sure he will proceed to the finals, which are going to be AWESOME. I just hope they don't all play the 2nd concerto, I like the first MUCH better.

The Mei-Ting dude is shaking a lot ! I'm afraid he is gonna fall of his hydraulic bench!!
Posted By: pianoloverus Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/15/10 03:58 PM
I think MTS played some major variants(his own?) in his Mazurkas Op.7 Nos. 1 and 2. Anyone ever hear those versions?
Posted By: Victor25 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/15/10 04:01 PM
Nope, we were discussing it on Mibbit as well. Though he is known for being very true to the score, but he put in 'new findings'.

Overall he made very much mistake's, and it seems the majority does not like his performance.
Posted By: Victor25 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/15/10 04:09 PM
He aced the last mvt.! !
Posted By: MegumiNoda Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/15/10 04:11 PM
Someone on Facebook claims: "Ossia on Ekier Edtion."

As for the forum chatters: well, haters gonna hate...
Posted By: pianoloverus Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/15/10 04:13 PM
Originally Posted by Victor25
Overall he made very much mistake's, and it seems the majority does not like his performance.
That's why he's been invited to perform the complete works of Chopin around the world during the last year.
Posted By: Victor25 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/15/10 04:13 PM
Ok comments from the commentators:

He did not meet the expectations, his playing was unnatural. Too many gestures, they expected more after a great 2nd stage,

Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by Victor25
Overall he made very much mistake's, and it seems the majority does not like his performance.
That's why he's been invited to perform the complete works of Chopin around the world during the last year.


Pianoloverus, you always do that, but its actually perfectly legitimate for people to comment on a performance. And this was definitely not one of his better one's! If you like it sure, but I think there is no way he is getting in the finals. Also it makes NO sense at all, because how is a performance in the future going to affect a concert booking a year ago :|!
Posted By: Scherze Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/15/10 04:15 PM
Originally Posted by Andromaque
I did not get to listen to all today, except for Evgenyi Bozhanov..I made time for him, right in my trusty Outlook calendar !! I thought he was terrific, and I really really like him. He is to me what Mei Ting is to PLUS.. laugh

Oh and, is it just me or is his mannerism somewhat less intense???


Maybe a little bit.

I thought both Bozhanov's and Wunder's performances some of the finest I've heard, but there is much I haven't heard yet.

There seems to be a lot of talk about individuality versus sounding like Chopin, but if you express something personally nice in your playing, who is to say whether it is you or Chopin.
Posted By: hopinmad Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/15/10 04:29 PM
Wunder has been so good. Can't wait for his tonight!
Posted By: pianoloverus Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/15/10 05:37 PM
Originally Posted by Victor25
Ok comments from the commentators:

He did not meet the expectations, his playing was unnatural. Too many gestures, they expected more after a great 2nd stage,

Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by Victor25
Overall he made very much mistake's, and it seems the majority does not like his performance.
That's why he's been invited to perform the complete works of Chopin around the world during the last year.


Pianoloverus, you always do that, but its actually perfectly legitimate for people to comment on a performance. And this was definitely not one of his better one's! If you like it sure, but I think there is no way he is getting in the finals. Also it makes NO sense at all, because how is a performance in the future going to affect a concert booking a year ago :|!
I didn't say it wasn't legitimate to comment on performances. I was commenting on what IMO are the silly nature of some of the comments.

You missed the point I was making...that someone who has been invited to play Chopin all over the world knows a lot about playing Chopin. That's why I find dismissive comments (the majority of which are made by non pros) about any terrific pianist silly. The competition judges have disagreed many times with the online commentators. You referred to the majority of people at some other site you listened to, but why would one think they were particularly knowledgable?
Posted By: Victor25 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/15/10 07:29 PM
You might be surprised, but those are actually the people that are going to buy tickets to a next concert. This is not something like America's got Talent, where all un-talented/ignorant people are giving their opinions. I'm quite sure that 90% of the people that watch this, are either serious about piano playing, or are people that regular attain concerts.
Posted By: BruceD Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/15/10 07:59 PM
Originally Posted by Victor25
You might be surprised, but those are actually the people that are going to buy tickets to a next concert. This is not something like America's got Talent, where all un-talented/ignorant people are giving their opinions. I'm quite sure that 90% of the people that watch this, are either serious about piano playing, or are people that regular attain concerts.


I'm not sure I understand your point, or perhaps I missed something along the way. I know a lot of people who go regularly to concerts, who listen regularly to classical music and have opinions about it and about performers, but I don't think that that necessarily makes them better judges - or even as good as - the jury members who are judging this competition.

Keep in mind, too, that however technically good the broadcast is, it is still a broadcast and may not compare to the nuances heard, live, in the hall.

Many people are influenced by 'charisma' on stage while others are more influenced by the content of the performance while still others are trying to balance both in their assessments.

So, the fact that the people you refer to and who are making critiques of these performances are those who are buying teickets to the next concert doesn't seem relevant to the discussion.

Regards,
Posted By: Damon Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/15/10 08:07 PM
Finally got to watch one. Ingolf Wunder. I was a little bored with the Op 61 but it was better than mine. I like a little freer form with less pedal. This is a hard competition to get into unless you just absolutely adore and worship Chopin. Thank goodness for the archive and the chronicle.
Posted By: Victor25 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/15/10 09:52 PM
Originally Posted by BruceD
Originally Posted by Victor25
You might be surprised, but those are actually the people that are going to buy tickets to a next concert. This is not something like America's got Talent, where all un-talented/ignorant people are giving their opinions. I'm quite sure that 90% of the people that watch this, are either serious about piano playing, or are people that regular attain concerts.


I'm not sure I understand your point, or perhaps I missed something along the way.


With due respect, please read back.
Posted By: sarah_elizabeth Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/16/10 12:45 AM
Boy, guys, after this week, I'm more intrigued than ever to see what Saturday evening's verdict is.



Posted By: Andromaque Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/16/10 02:11 AM
I thought it was interesting how young Nikolay Kozyainov's performance was breathtaking in the early stages when he played CHopin's "younger" pieces. But his magic waned when confronting the more mature works, such as the sonata, the Baracarolle, etc..

For me, it is between Bozhanov and Wunder.
I have to say that Mei Ting Sun was also very good but not as consistent across the board.
Originally Posted by Andromaque
I thought it was interesting how young Nikolay Kozyainov's performance was breathtaking in the early stages when he played CHopin's "younger" pieces. But his magic waned when confronting the more mature works, such as the sonata, the Baracarolle, etc..

For me, it is between Bozhanov and Wunder.
I have to say that Mei Ting Sun was also very good but not as consistent across the board.


And for me Wunder and Armellini
Posted By: izaldu Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/16/10 09:43 AM
so how many artists get through to the finals. i watched bits of wunder and liked him a lot. also enjoying Dumont ... and the fazioli
Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/16/10 02:34 PM
i've just returned from Warsaw after yesterday's evening session. What I must say that hearing these pianists live is a COMPLETELY different experience than hearing them through the broadcast. The broadcast from TVP Kultura is really, really good though (the one available worldwide has much poorer sound quality).

It was a gorgeous evening, though I must say I was really tired. Listening online, sitting at your desk with tea at your side is much less demanding than listening carefuly at the life concert. Sonatas are very serious works, let's say... intellectually tiring. It was really hard for me to judge anything during Wunder's (the last one) performance.

And I think I am even more sick of Op. 61 now ;-) I was overloaded with this piece during Chopin Amateur Piano Competition last year - I guess I was not yet fully recovered to through hearing it 20 more times laugh
Posted By: Andromaque Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/16/10 02:57 PM
you can vote online now!
results today?
Posted By: pianoloverus Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/16/10 03:02 PM
The "unofficial" results are in: Mei Ting Sun has been awarded first, second, and third prizes and everyone else has been sent home. He will play the entire works of Chopin in his concert for the prize winners. Many jury members have begged him for lessons.
Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/16/10 03:07 PM
LOL! You made my day smile Hilarious laugh

By the way, yesterday I had a surprise opportunity to meet Daniil Trifonov in person. I had an hour left till the performances, so I ended up in new Kawai & Fazioli dealership to play some more on the Kawai (I'm on my journey to buy a new piano). Unfortunately, I was able to tinke only for a bit, because Daniil Trifonov showed up to practice on a showroom Fazioli. Listening to him so close, seeing his hands from a standing distance, was a very enriching experience. What a great pianist he is!


M.
Posted By: pianoloverus Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/16/10 03:13 PM
Originally Posted by Mati
LOL! You made my day smile Hilarious laugh

By the way, yesterday I had a surprise opportunity to meet Daniil Trifonov in person. I had an hour left till the performances, so I ended up in new Kawai & Fazioli dealership to play some more on the Kawai (I'm on my journey to buy a new piano). Unfortunately, I was able to tinke only for a bit, because Daniil Trifonov showed up to practice on a showroom Fazioli. Listening to him so close, seeing his hands from a standing distance, was a very enriching experience. What a great pianist he is!
Have you been going to the all the recitals on a given day? That would be close to eight hours right?
Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/16/10 03:20 PM
No, only to the evening ones and only this single time - Sun, Avdeeva, Koziak and Wunder. We got tickets with my friend by accident, because two of our colleagues couldn't come after all.
Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/16/10 03:38 PM
THE RESULTS!
Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/16/10 03:39 PM
Avdeeva, Bozhanov, Dumont, Geniusas, Khozyainov, Kultyshev, Trifonov, Tysman, Wakarecy, Wunder
Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/16/10 03:46 PM
They said that results were concluded easily. The system of voting does not allow discussion, unless the 10th and 11th place would have the same amount of YES votes. They said that results were clear without additional discussion.
Posted By: MegumiNoda Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/16/10 03:51 PM
It seems like this round pretty much went to those participants who displayed the least amount of nerves.
Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/16/10 04:04 PM
I wonder what's the probability that jury members are somehow partial to the fact, that Wakarecy's teacher is one of the members. Theoretically the voting system is perhaps the best possible to avoid that kind of decisions, but I somehow have the feeling that being fully objective and voting against friend in such a case is not an easy thing, even if one tries.
Posted By: pianoloverus Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/16/10 04:05 PM
Originally Posted by Mati
Avdeeva, Bozhanov, Dumont, Geniusas, Khozyainov, Kultyshev, Trifonov, Tysman, Wakarecy, Wunder
Have the MTS fans been gathering outside the hall to protest? The judges just don't like loud ties or Art Tatum, I guess. I know for a fact Argerich is jealous of MTS's octaves.
Posted By: Kuanpiano Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/16/10 04:24 PM
You sure are a shameless fanboy!! laugh
Posted By: Andromaque Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/16/10 05:03 PM
Marek Bracha studied with Kevin Kenner in London; Wunder studied with Harasiewicz.. etc..

If anything, the Russian trained pianists seem to have been at significant advantage and the Asians, regardless of where they were trained, had the least rate of success.. The US trainees did well earlier on but none made it to the last stage. The French did very well, maintaining a 50% retention rate into the finals, but they started with a n of 4.. After the Russians and the French, the Poles did best with a 14% retention rate into the finals..
Obviously I did not count the "rare" Bulgarian and Austrian..

The worse were the Japanese who started with the largest number of contestants in the 1st stage (n=17), cut by 60% into the 2nd stage and then completely eliminated..

[Linked Image]

P.S> Yeah.. I am a bit weird.. But I need a break on saturdays and I have already practiced..
Posted By: Opus_Maximus Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/16/10 05:39 PM
I think Bozhanov will win - provided he continues to be solid in the finals. I was listening to his Polonaise-Fantasie, Mazurkas, and 3rd sonata yesterday and this is playing far more imaginative, unique, and effective than anyone else I've heard. (Tyson was similar, but sometimes I found his sound to be limited and his eccentricities out of context). Then again, I thought Bozhanov stood a good chance of placing in the Cliburn, which he didn't, but he also started going downhill in the finals.

As for Mei-Ting Sun, I don't doubt that he probably has the greatest technique on the planet (literally), as well as tons of sensitivity to match it up - but - something about him just irritates me, I can't put my finger on it. Maybe it's that his digital facility is so great, that no matter how musically he plays, there will just be too much clarity in this music that is ideally supposed to be a balance of clarity and haze. Sometimes he plays runs and trills SO cleanly that they take on an almost midi-sound effect that ruins their context in the rest of the music. And as someone mentioned earlier, he looks the most confident and assured onstage, precisely because he has NOTHING to worry about and that in itself may rob him of a certain edge - a certain fear of failure that helps to make a performance come alive.
Posted By: pianoloverus Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/16/10 05:44 PM
Originally Posted by Opus_Maximus
I think Bozhanov will win - provided he continues to be solid in the finals.
I think he will will if he gets a lot of Botox injections(they prevent excessive movement) especially in the eyebrows region before the finals. It's really not fair...his eyebrows are like having an extra finger.
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/16/10 06:05 PM
Originally Posted by Andromaque
[Linked Image]

P.S> Yeah.. I am a bit weird.. But I need a break on saturdays and I have already practiced..


AWESOME!!! laugh
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/16/10 06:06 PM
I think Nicolay Khozyainov will win first prize and the best Polonaise prize.
Posted By: fuzzy8balls Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/16/10 06:08 PM
heart is broken, MTS didn't make it o(>______<)o
Posted By: BruceD Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/16/10 06:13 PM
Finalists ranked by age :

Khozyainov : 18 (17 July, 1992)
Trifonov : 19 (5 March, 1991)
Geniusas : 20 (1 July, 1990)
Wakarecy : 23 (14 October, 1987)
Dumont : 25 (19 October, 1985)
Wunder : 25 (8 September, 1985)
Kultyshev : 25 (21 August, 1985)
Avdeeva : 25 (3 July, 1985)
Bozhanov : 26 (10 March, 1984)
Tysman : 28 : (30 December, 1982)

Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/16/10 06:25 PM
So, for some of them it is the last time to compete in this particular competition.
Posted By: hopinmad Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/16/10 09:28 PM
Originally Posted by Andromaque

[Linked Image]



Originally Posted by BruceD
Finalists ranked by age :

Khozyainov : 18 (17 July, 1992)
Trifonov : 19 (5 March, 1991)
Geniusas : 20 (1 July, 1990)
Wakarecy : 23 (14 October, 1987)
Dumont : 25 (19 October, 1985)
Wunder : 25 (8 September, 1985)
Kultyshev : 25 (21 August, 1985)
Avdeeva : 25 (3 July, 1985)
Bozhanov : 26 (10 March, 1984)
Tysman : 28 : (30 December, 1982)



Excellent posts!
Posted By: hopinmad Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/16/10 09:29 PM
I can't argue with those going into the final, I enjoyed what I saw of each of them. In particular, Yulianna, Wunder and, above all, Geniusas. His 25/12 was a great end to his programme.
Posted By: pianoloverus Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/16/10 11:26 PM
For the finals Chopin PC #1 will be performed eight times and Chopin PC #2 will be played twice.
Posted By: sarah_elizabeth Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/17/10 01:21 AM
I'm glad Tysman made it in... and of course I thought Bozhanov would. I'm actually somewhat disappointed by the verdict - very few of the pianists that I REALLY liked made it in - but I guess I'll have to make do. I can't afford a plane ticket so that I can gripe at the judges in person. wink



Posted By: ChopinAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/17/10 03:23 AM
50% are Russians.
There are actually many outstanding Russian pianists.
Is their education stricter? Are they more determined to reach the goal?
Posted By: ChopinAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/17/10 03:25 AM
It is a shame by the way that the finals always start when it is 3am here... frown
Posted By: sarah_elizabeth Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/17/10 03:38 AM
Agreed.
Posted By: AZNpiano Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/17/10 04:39 AM
Originally Posted by Opus_Maximus
As for Mei-Ting Sun, I don't doubt that he probably has the greatest technique on the planet (literally), as well as tons of sensitivity to match it up - but - something about him just irritates me, I can't put my finger on it. Maybe it's that his digital facility is so great, that no matter how musically he plays, there will just be too much clarity in this music that is ideally supposed to be a balance of clarity and haze. Sometimes he plays runs and trills SO cleanly that they take on an almost midi-sound effect that ruins their context in the rest of the music. And as someone mentioned earlier, he looks the most confident and assured onstage, precisely because he has NOTHING to worry about and that in itself may rob him of a certain edge - a certain fear of failure that helps to make a performance come alive.


What the heck are you talking about???? shocked
Posted By: signa Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/18/10 01:32 AM
just saw a blog page, which is quite interesting. he's pretty much covered most of pianists in the competition. he's right or wrong it doesn't matter, because a lot of what he wrote was much felt by many people observing the competition. he might be a reporter of the competition, since his blog was on the competition newsletters as well.

see here:
http://www.michael-moran.com/2010_10_01_archive.html
Posted By: Andromaque Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/18/10 02:29 AM
The latest copy of Chopin Express has some very interesting short articles, including some takes by Stephen Hough and Ingrid Fliter, among others, about Chopin's music. More interestingly, one of the writers thinks that Bozhanov and Wunder are as "almost guaranteed" to be the winners, may be split the first prize.. I don't know if the English translation makes the statement sound even more assertive than it is meant to be. But I was surprised that the official organization of the competition would allow such a strong opinion.. I think it is rather refreshing..


That is an interesting blog, signa. Thanks. What scandal does he mean exactly? (I have not read through the whole thing yet)
Bozhanov is unbelievable!
Posted By: izaldu Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/18/10 10:01 AM
I think it is very inappropriate to make such strong statements about the outcome of the competition even before the finals. In case that comes from the organization , that is.
Posted By: izaldu Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/18/10 04:45 PM
Watching Kultyshev right now - wow!
Posted By: fuzzy8balls Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/18/10 06:34 PM
I saw Trifonov, he was excellent. I was hoping for better from Wakarecy, but his first movement of F-minor was falling apart at places.
Posted By: pianoloverus Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/18/10 07:13 PM
Originally Posted by Orange Soda King
Bozhanov is unbelievable!
Do you mean his playing or his eyebrow moves?
Posted By: BB Player Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/18/10 07:45 PM
Unfortunately, I was only able to catch the last 5 minutes of Bozhanov's performance and missed all the earlier ones. I enjoyed what I saw very much. A few minor mistakes didn't detract at all and he appeared to me to be very much at ease and completely in synch with the orchestra. I'm looking forward to seeing the rest of the performance (and the others I missed) once they hit the archives.
Posted By: pianoloverus Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/18/10 07:46 PM
Bozhanov had a 2 second meltdown near the end of the last movement, I think. I don't know how important that will be to the results.
Posted By: BB Player Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/18/10 07:47 PM
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Bozhanov had a 2 second meltdown near the end of the last movement, I think. I don't know how important that will be to the results.

I think you're right about the mistake. Since I didn't see the rest of his performance (nor any of the others) it's hard to say how much it will affect him. I thought he recovered well.
Posted By: cscl Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/18/10 08:00 PM
Originally Posted by Andromaque
The latest copy of Chopin Express has some very interesting short articles, including some takes by Stephen Hough and Ingrid Fliter, among others, about Chopin's music. More interestingly, one of the writers thinks that Bozhanov and Wunder are as "almost guaranteed" to be the winners, may be split the first prize.. I don't know if the English translation makes the statement sound even more assertive than it is meant to be. But I was surprised that the official organization of the competition would allow such a strong opinion.. I think it is rather refreshing..


That edition of the newsletter is here.

The Polish is:

W przesłuchaniach trzeciego etapu na czoło wysunęli się dwaj fenomenalni pianiści, o zupełnie różnym podejściu do muzyki Chopina: Evgeni Bozhanov oraz Ingolf Wunder. Nikt chyba nie ma już wątpliwości, że jeden z nich zwycięży; może nawet razem staną na najwyższym podium?

My translation without reading the English:

In listening to the third round, two phenomenal pianists, each with completely different approaches to the music of Chopin, emerged in the lead: Evgeni Bozhanov and Ingolf Wunder. Perhaps no one has doubts any more that one of them will win; perhaps they will even stand together on the highest podium?

The newsletter's English translation:
Two phenomenal pianists moved to the forefront during the third stage: Evgeni Bozhanov and Ingolf Wunder, each with a completely different approach to Chopin’s music. I don’t think anyone doubts that one of these two will be the winner; perhaps they will even share first place?

Of course, the article is titled "Two and the Rest", so I guess the opinion of the author is pretty settled!
Posted By: stores Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/18/10 11:15 PM
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Bozhanov had a 2 second meltdown near the end of the last movement, I think. I don't know how important that will be to the results.


What do you mean? I've seen/heard him many times in various competitions and HE is usually the reason he doesn't fare better. I really wish I'd had more time lately to watch some of the performances!
Posted By: pianoloverus Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/18/10 11:22 PM
Originally Posted by stores
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Bozhanov had a 2 second meltdown near the end of the last movement, I think. I don't know how important that will be to the results.


What do you mean? I've seen/heard him many times in various competitions and HE is usually the reason he doesn't fare better. I really wish I'd had more time lately to watch some of the performances!
I can't remember exactly what happened because it was all so fast. I think he hit an obvious wrong note and then seemed to blank out for few seconds...he just stopped playing before he recovered and continued. The whole thing lasted like three seconds and occured about a minute before the end of the third movement.
Posted By: Andromaque Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/18/10 11:40 PM
Originally Posted by stores

and HE is usually the reason he doesn't fare better. I really wish I'd had more time lately to watch some of the performances!


What do you mean by "HE is the reason he does not fare better"?
Posted By: stores Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/19/10 12:49 AM
Originally Posted by Andromaque
Originally Posted by stores

and HE is usually the reason he doesn't fare better. I really wish I'd had more time lately to watch some of the performances!


What do you mean by "HE is the reason he does not fare better"?


He's let his personality get in the way one too many times in various comps. Not only through his playing but via spoken word as well.
Posted By: Andromaque Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/19/10 01:39 AM
Yes, but I like his individualism. I do think he is at his most brilliant when he plays solo and his worst (which is still very good) when he plays with an orchestra..I did not get to watch him today, but his 3rd stage was masterful.. Such perfect waltzes, mazurkas, Polonaise.. It was a brilliant recital, I thought.. Don't know how he fared in the concerto today. PLUS's description is worrisome. I hope he is exaggerating..
Posted By: signa Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/19/10 04:55 AM
i got an audio link of Bozhanov's Chopin concerto from the competition's facebook site, and am listening to it, and don't feel it's bad at all as some people says. it's quite lovely so far, and full of rich tone that he always has. i wish he wins...
Posted By: Sir Gawain Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/19/10 06:53 AM
sorry guys, after a couple days hiatus (my aunt died), i'm back with English summaries of the 23:00 polish radio commentary, here:
http://humidfruit.wordpress.com/201...d-of-day-summary-on-pr2-october-18-2300/
Posted By: Victor25 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/19/10 09:30 AM
Sorry to hear about you aunt frown
Posted By: Andromaque Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/19/10 10:42 AM
Originally Posted by Sir Gawain
sorry guys, after a couple days hiatus (my aunt died), i'm back with English summaries of the 23:00 polish radio commentary, here:
http://humidfruit.wordpress.com/201...d-of-day-summary-on-pr2-october-18-2300/


Many thanks for the translations. It was a very interesting read. Sorry about your aunt.
Posted By: signa Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/19/10 11:49 AM
the final stage videos are finally available now. don't have much time to watch them through now. besides a few mistakes in the 3rd movement, i think Bozhanov's playing were just what i liked.
Posted By: jazzyprof Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/19/10 07:06 PM
Ah, Ingolf Wunder did not disappoint. What a wunderkind! Expressive, sensitive, virtuosic, he seemed to be having so much fun! He was totally at one with the conductor and orchestra. Bravo!!!!!!
Posted By: jazzyprof Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/19/10 07:07 PM
OMG... a standing ovation for Wunder! The crowd goes wild!
Posted By: pianoloverus Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/19/10 07:24 PM
I'm sure pianists have different ways of expressing their joy and love for music. For many/most it may not show much at all on their faces. Some are very expressive but in a intense or spiritual way(thinking of Uchida or Bolzhanov but it could apply to many others). Some, like Haochen Zhang, show much joy but but in a more restrained way.

I have never seen more obviously joyous music making then the last two movements of Wunder's Chopin Concerto( I missed the first movement). He was grinning from ear to ear and smiling broadly almost all the time as if to say "isn't this the most beautiful piece in the world or aren't I the luckiest guy in the world to be playing it?" But it didn't seem fake for one second.

The audience was obviously caught up in his joy and gave him one of biggest rounds of applause(which began bfore the orchestra's last few chords) I have seen so far at this competition. Of course, I guess his playing was also stupendous also. The camera showed Bela Davidovitch smiling broadly at the end of the concerto.

I can't remember if he was this obviously happy during the earlier rounds. If he wins, I think he could do much to popularize classical music around the world since his love of music will excite many people who may not be classical music fans before hearing him.
Posted By: Sir Gawain Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/19/10 07:45 PM
Well, wunder is wunderbar, of course, but also understand this: he has a polish teacher, has been touring in poland, knows Wit personally, I am sure (and knows how to honor him -- did you see the eastern european old world bow?) as well as all the front row of the orchestra; he is good, absolutely; wonderful, even; but he is also among friends. does that help him play better with the conductor and orchestra? absolutely

thanks for kind words re aunt

Posted By: ChopinAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/19/10 10:50 PM
Wunder was very good. Unfortunately I only saw him today, as I didn't manage to kick myself out of bed before 5, being unwell, so I cannot make any comparisons with the others who played today, but I will watch the other performances later on online.
Posted By: Sir Gawain Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/20/10 08:42 AM
last night's commentary
http://humidfruit.wordpress.com/201...d-of-day-summary-on-pr2-october-19-2300/
Posted By: ConcertEtudes Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/20/10 03:27 PM
Short thoughts after watching the replays:

The orchestra can bring out the cello/bass line more, especially when they are playing the continuation of melody line.

Wunder's dynamics could show more variety; I couldn't tell from mf from ff. I liked the counterpoint from the left hand.

Unfortunately the two other pianists got light failures. Khozyainov seemed technically insecure, i.e. not in control of the piano, even before the light failure.
Posted By: BB Player Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/20/10 04:37 PM
I'm always a little cautious in criticizing dynamics when watching a highly compressed video over the internet. I'm not saying you're wrong but I'd bet it's a little more nuanced when watching it live.
Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/20/10 06:26 PM
Fazioli got slapped in the face real hard...
Posted By: ChopinAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/20/10 06:32 PM
Yes... Dumont dumped the Fazioli...
Posted By: Andromaque Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/20/10 06:32 PM
It has been very interesting and highly instructive to watch the (relatively) vast variance of skills between the solo pieces and the concerto. I was very impressed with Kozhainov (?sp.) and Bozhanov's solos but their performance of the concerto was a bit disappointing, especially the former who really looked like a little kid who was not sure why he was there. (Kudos for the aplomb he showed when the lights went out!!! did not bat an eye). I mean they are clearly superlative pianists, and perhaps I had very heightened expectations.. But they were not at the same level as their prior performances..
I did not get to see / listen to all the concerti. I saw Avdeeva, a wonderful musician, play the concerto beautifully but so fast at times.. I could hear my own teacher whispering (yelling) SLOW down!!!!!!!!.. Nerves?
I did not see Wunder, but it would seem that he does indeed have a "home" advantage. On the other hand, he probably "prepared" for this over the past 5 years, in a very studied and systematic manner, from the choice of teacher (jury member Harasiewicz!), to the familiarization with the music and audience scene in Poland etc..
Overall, if nothing else, it would be interesting to observe the future of so many wonderful pianists.. Will they all succeed? Certainly the art of piano playing and teaching is still going strong..

Posted By: BB Player Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/20/10 06:47 PM
Originally Posted by Andromaque

Overall, if nothing else, it would be interesting to observe the future of so many wonderful pianists.. Will they all succeed? Certainly the art of piano playing and teaching is still going strong..



I completely agree! Competitions are "nice" because they give you a chance to see emerging artists in a variety of repertoire. Many of the pianists here (including some who didn't make the finals!) are very talented. It will be interesting to follow their careers.
Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/20/10 09:54 PM
1. Avdeeva
2. Geniusas and Wunder
3. Trifonov

Special prizes not yet announced
Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/20/10 09:58 PM
Mazurkas - Trifonov
Concerto - Wunder
Sonata - Avdeeva
Polonaise-Fantasia - Wunder
Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/20/10 09:59 PM
4. Bozhanov
5. Dumont
6. Not awarded
Posted By: timmyab Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/20/10 10:02 PM
Great competition.I think there may be some stars of the future amongst them.
Posted By: BB Player Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/20/10 10:17 PM
Interesting! Those finalists who finished with no placings or awards: Kultyshev, Wakarecy, Tysman. I would have thought Wunder would win but admit I've only seen a couple of his performances and those happened to be the ones for which he won prizes (Concerto and Polonaise-Fantasia). Great competition and fun to watch!
Posted By: stores Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/20/10 10:17 PM
Happy to see Wunder win something. Tremendous potential to be something special. I wouldn't be at all surprised to hear from him again.
Posted By: BB Player Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/20/10 10:22 PM
Originally Posted by stores
Happy to see Wunder win something. Tremendous potential to be something special. I wouldn't be at all surprised to hear from him again.


Agreed!
Posted By: ChopinAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/20/10 10:33 PM
Thanks for the update, that was quick!
Posted By: cast12 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/20/10 11:11 PM
Wow. The results are a farce.
Posted By: BB Player Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/20/10 11:46 PM
Originally Posted by cast12
Wow. The results are a farce.

Do tell?

I'll admit that the ordering isn't one I would have made but I'll also admit that I've not seen or watched every minute of every performance, even of the finalists (I'm watching Avdeeva's concerto performance now) so it's hard for me to second guess the judges.

Why do you feel the results are a farce?
Posted By: stores Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/21/10 12:12 AM
Originally Posted by BB Player
Originally Posted by cast12
Wow. The results are a farce.

Do tell?

I'll admit that the ordering isn't one I would have made but I'll also admit that I've not seen or watched every minute of every performance, even of the finalists (I'm watching Avdeeva's concerto performance now) so it's hard for me to second guess the judges.

Why do you feel the results are a farce?


I was wondering the same. I've also not watched all of the performers and just now have Avdeeva's concerto cued up to go. I would have liked to have had more time to devote to watching this in general.
Posted By: ChopinAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/21/10 12:36 AM
Me too. Avdeeva in particular was hardly ever at a favourable time for me, so I am listening to her right now.
Posted By: signa Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/21/10 01:27 AM
strange result, as i just saw. i guess that Argerich didn't have the dominant vote after all.
Posted By: stores Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/21/10 08:15 AM
Originally Posted by signa
strange result, as i just saw. i guess that Argerich didn't have the dominant vote after all.


Why do you say that?
Posted By: cruiser Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/21/10 08:27 AM
I guess it was Avdeeva's suit that won it for her... wink

....seriously, all the competitors (I listened to most of them) were fantastic. That's as deep as my analysis goes! grin
Posted By: pianovirus Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/21/10 08:45 AM
Originally Posted by signa
strange result, as i just saw. i guess that Argerich didn't have the dominant vote after all.


From what I read, Martha didn't seem to unhappy about her winning:

Quote
Martha Argerich, a past winner and member of the jury, told The Associated Press the panel had been impressed by the searching quality in Avdeeva's performance.
"She's a very harmonious artist. She's always searching for some kind of truth," said Argerich, who won in 1965.
"I am extremely happy about Yulianna, and particularly because she is the first woman after 45 years. After me there was no lady, so I am very happy _ double _ for this."
Posted By: BB Player Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/21/10 12:24 PM
I've only listened to Avdeeva's performance in the finals and can only say I don't think she won on the strength of her concerto performance. I thought several of the others performed much better than she did in the finals. I'm planning on going back to watch her performances in the earlier rounds to see what it is the judges saw in her (giving the benefit of the doubt).
Posted By: izaldu Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/21/10 01:45 PM
I never saw a clear winner, i don t think any of them really stod out on all stages. Like it s been said, some of the best guys on the solo stages faded a bit in the finals (Khozyainov) ... but i definitely did not see anyone shining through the rest of the participants.

will review Avdeeva 's performances , anyway, congratulations to her.
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/21/10 02:23 PM
Originally Posted by cruiser
......the competitors (I listened to most of them) were fantastic. That's as deep as my analysis goes! grin


you are a very wise man. laugh
Posted By: ConcertEtudes Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/21/10 03:58 PM
More thoughts on the finalists after listening to more replays:

To be worthy of a prize one must be in control of the piano technically. Unfortunately Khozyainov seemed technically insecure, i.e. not in control of the piano, even before the light failure. (As in, he looked like he was always struggling to hit the right notes).

Then the next standard is Kultyshev, who was technically perfect, but played machine-like and didn't convey much emotion or individuality (to be fair he displayed much potential in the chords and left hand, more suitable for the bigger romantic pieces like Tchaikovsky and Rach). That's also not worthy to win a prize at such a prestigious competition. To me, he drawed the line of a standard pianist vs a good pianist.

I thought Helene Tysman was above Kultyshev in that she played like she had something to say through the piano. Technique-wise the flow could have been better at some of the running passages.

Wunder overall had a good performance and perfectly in control. His dynamics could show more variety; I couldn't tell from mf from ff. I liked the counterpoint from the left hand.

Geniusas had the perfect right hand, with ideal phrasing, accents, flow in difficult passages. His left hand could have shown a lot more prominence and bring out the base melody.

Avdeeva had the best dynamic range out of all performance I heard. Also good balance between left and right hand. Unlike the critics I did not find her playing too fast at all, at least in the first movement (if you look at the timing, it's around 20 minutes which is standard). She also showed that individual flair which I enjoyed. There were some slips and phrasing I didn't like, so it was by far not a perfect performance, but certainly prize worthy.

I have to re-listen to Trifonov and Bozhanov, but combining the best of Wunder, Avdeeva, and Geniusas, and one probably gets the perfect Chopin 1st concerto.
Posted By: Bech Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/21/10 04:54 PM
I am relatively new to concert pianists and their playing but I have just been listening and watching Yulianna Avdeeva as she competed in this competition. I have never heard so much great sound from a piano.

But....as I say, I'm new and have much to learn. I will really enjoy watching all of her performances in the competition on YouTube.

Although nothing to do with her playing, she showed good taste with her hair and clothing. Very neat.

Thus far have viewed Concerto no1 and Scherzo no 4. There are some key places in this last when she really makes the piano sing!

Bech
Posted By: pianoloverus Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/21/10 08:00 PM
i don't know how or what they're doing with the multiple spotlights(?) and high overhead view during the winners' recital, but I think it's quite amazing and appealing! I've never seen anything like this in a serious classical piano concert.

And later, a great view of the winner playing in the underside of the Yamaha CFX lid. I think the camera work for the entire competition, even the less fancy stuff not used in the winners' recital, is amazing.

I think the winners' recital may be in a different hall than the actual competition.
Posted By: Scherze Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/21/10 08:15 PM
I disagree about Kultyshev being mechanical. I think some didn't like him because he didn't use too much variety of color or texturing, but his playing was very high quality, nicely interpreted, the way Chopin should sound, but perhaps the way many others play it. He needs to find his own voice more.

I didn't listen to much Avdeeva, but her polonaise-fantasie sounds perfect to me.

It seemed unfair that Bozhanov got so bashed about his concerto. They almost made him out to be some kind of clown. Actually, his mistakes were not as serious as said, and his music was full of expression and singing tone. He had a bit of a loud left hand at first, but it didn't seem overwhelming to me.

Lots of contestants seemed to get bashed along the way, or sometimes completely ignored. Some commentators seemed to be trying to find just a few heroes.
Posted By: pianoloverus Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/21/10 08:50 PM
Geniusas got barely lukewarm applause after his Barcarolle and Waltz in F in the winners' recital. True, I think he made several super glaring clunkers in the Waltz(two of the near the opening high F's in a row?), but shouldn't the audience consider his entire performance over the competition??
Posted By: signa Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/21/10 10:59 PM
agree about Bozhanov, and i quite liked his playing actually. everyone sounded like he did really really badly in concerto, but i don't think it's the case at all. he just played as he did before, but this time, some critics hated it just because he made more sensational solo performance on previous days. the same thing happened to him on the Cliburn and somewhat at QEC as well, as some people complained his performance when in fact he just did what he liked to do on piano.

he has his own ideas about playing any pieces, even with concertos, which like it or not is just the way he does. i like his concerto performances, despite some mistakes he made. he's the only one i would follow through years, because he's just so original if there's nothing else.

it's pity that in most international competitions, a real and original artist is not always appreciated or rewarded as it should be. i much prefer he's the winner than anyone else in the competition. but the reality is always a different story.
Posted By: sarah_elizabeth Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/22/10 03:32 AM
I got the chance to watch the livestream of Avdeeva's concerto performance at the winners' concert today. I must say, it really was a beautiful performance, worthy of a winner. Original, and some parts were not the way some pianists might have conceived of them, but I found the performance profoundly moving and well-constructed. I couldn't budge from my seat until she was done. wink Great conductor and orchestra, too.
Posted By: Victor25 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/22/10 07:22 AM
Woohoo my favorite won! I loved Avdeeva already in the first round, and also her Sonata's were amazing. I wasn't able to see the concerto's, except one from Trifonov, which I liked alot! Ow well, Trifonov, Wunder and Avdeeva in the top 3, I am very happy.
Posted By: ChopinAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/22/10 04:36 PM
Originally Posted by sarah_elizabeth
I got the chance to watch the livestream of Avdeeva's concerto performance at the winners' concert today.


I completely missed the winners' concert... cry
Posted By: BB Player Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/24/10 12:09 AM
Originally Posted by ChopinAddict
Originally Posted by sarah_elizabeth
I got the chance to watch the livestream of Avdeeva's concerto performance at the winners' concert today.


I completely missed the winners' concert... cry

It's in the archive.
Posted By: BB Player Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/24/10 12:11 AM
I've had the chance to listen to Avdeeva's earlier rounds and now it's easier to see why she won. Her concerto performance still doesn't compare to Wunder's but she really did play well in the earlier rounds. Brava!
Posted By: Guldesque Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/24/10 07:20 PM
I really would prefer for Kultyshev to win. Bozhanov would have been my second choice. Avdeeva's sound is as far as you can possibly get from Chopin's singing tone. I did not think she deserved to win. The second movement of her sonata was rather dismaying, as if her technical ability was simply not enough. Very surprised.
Posted By: Victor25 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/24/10 07:36 PM
And this is all your humble opinion ofcourse
Posted By: ConcertEtudes Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/25/10 03:59 PM
Scores of all participants for each round are released!

http://konkurs.chopin.pl/en/edition/xvi/verdicts2/1989_etap_i

Sort first by # of yes votes, then by average score, and you get the ranks after each round. The point system is terrible, because they weight each round equally, even though the 3rd and final rounds contain twice as much music(at least in performance time) as the 1st and 2nd round. Each round should be weighted progressively more, with concerto round weighting probably 4 times as much as the first round.

Also interesting to see the jury follow the scores strictly in the first three rounds. This is to show fairness in judging? (since they can only see the scores, not the names) But the flaw of this system is that it allows for no discussion and comparison between performances after they hear all the performances. I guess this avoids the problem of one persuasive judge convincing the rest of the jury of his/her own beliefs....

Disappointed to see Denis Zhdanov fall from 3rd place after Round 1 to 31st place after Round 2 (biggest drop). Also disappointed to see Marianna Prjevalskaya improve from 38th to 21st place (biggest improvement), only to just miss out the 3rd round by one spot...

Joanna Różewska was probably the most unforunate to have the highest score of all who didn't make it to second round...



Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/25/10 04:50 PM
Originally Posted by ConcertEtudes
The point system is terrible, because they weight each round equally


No, they do not. Where did you get that information from?



M.
Posted By: pianoloverus Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/25/10 04:55 PM
In the final round the scoring seems reversed? The winner has the lowest score or at least that's what it looks like to me.
Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/25/10 05:06 PM
To rephrase what I said on Facebook - from what I see, it's not the scoring of the final itself, but the whole competition.

It fits well with the new rules used for choosing the winners. There were sheets with names in which each jury member had to put a number from "1" to "10" specifying the place for each candidate.

What you see is the mean from all sheets from all jury members, meaning that the lower the score, the higher the place in he competition.

By no means the points in the "finals" table relate to finals alone.

1,47 Yulianna Avdeeva (1)
2,48 Ingolf Wunder (2)
2.50 Lukas Geniusas (2)
3,48 Daniil Trifonov (3)
3,92 Evegni Bozhanov (4)
5,17 Francois Dumont (5)

Does that order of candidates ring a bell? smile It's the final scoring for the whole competition with the lowest mark being the highest position on the podium, not the concerto score alone.
Posted By: pianoloverus Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/25/10 05:23 PM
So the scoring for the first three has the highest score as the best, but in the final it's not "yes-no" anymore so the lowest is the best(since lowest means 1 meaning first place)?

Or to ask my question differently:
The very first person in round one got 5 "yes" votes to go into round two. How did that result in an average score of 71?
Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/25/10 05:53 PM
Quote

The very first person in round one got 5 "yes" votes to go into round two. How did that result in an average score of 71?


Let me quote the rules that clarify that point:

Quote

The 'yes/no' assessments are of primary importance in the first three stages of the Competition.

NB: Competitors recommended by the Juror for the next stage (marked 'YES')-and only those competitors-should be assigned at least 75 points. This figure will thus constitute the reference point for all the assessments awarded by the Juror in the successive stages.


In first three stages the jury members awarded BOTH yes/no marks AS WELL AS points (>75 for YES, <75 for NO). The average score of 71 is simply the average of all scores given by all jury members for this particular pianist, regardless of yes/no marking.
Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/25/10 06:06 PM
There was an interview on the radio with Adam Harasiewicz, one of the Jury members of the radio. Courtesy of Helena Szczepanik, here is the summary:

- there were at least a few jury members who wanted first prize ex aequo for Wunder and Avdeeva (he named himself, Paleczny and Entremont)
-there were also a few who didn't see any winner (he named prof. Jasiński)
- he said that after Wund...er's Polonaise-Fantaisie Nelson Freire was so touched that he nearly cried but after all he (Freire) ranked Trifonov higher than Wunder and Avdeeva. Freire was not rather touched by Avdeeva’s playing
- he found Bozhanov a pianist ‘ with enormous talent and real personalité’, he added that a few of jury members ranked Bozhanov on 2 place overall but much of them didn’t like his style because he played himself not Chopin
-prof. Jasiński ranked Wunder in 2 place and Avdeeva in 4
- he found the final results the ‘question of taste’ and there are always ‘misunderstandings’ in the competition
- he admitted that if the rules of competition were left without change the result would be completely different but he ‘don’t know which pianist could make a profit from it.’ He added also that some jury members thought that ‘rules without change could rank some pianists too high even if they played final Concerto horribly’ (he pointed Bozhanov)
- there was no discussion in the final voting, each jury member just presented his final ranking without explanation ‘why’. He also mentioned that maybe if he was allowed to vote on Wunder the arithmetic result would rank the Austrian on the first place
- he said that Khozyainov was too immature and too sentimental for him
-he stated there was few pianists who were near to the real ‘chopinist style’. He praised some Trifonov mazurkas, he loved also Geniusas Etude in A flat Major
-he played down the importance of the fact that Avdeeva wasn’t qualified to eliminations; he repeated that her play was ‘good but not beautiful’ for him
- he accused the jury member who voted against Wunder’s appearance in the final of ‘lack of competence’ and he stated that it’s maybe kind of ‘specific asian taste’ (he didin’t say even Koyama’s name, but only ‘the Japanese jury member’)
- he said that he will rest diplomatic in concern of Polish pianists performances but nevertheless he liked Wakarecy’s simple and natural playing, he even considered him as one of laureats, he praised also Koziak’s Nocturne in F sharp Major
Posted By: pianoloverus Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/25/10 06:36 PM
Originally Posted by Mati
Quote

The very first person in round one got 5 "yes" votes to go into round two. How did that result in an average score of 71?


Let me quote the rules that clarify that point:

Quote

The 'yes/no' assessments are of primary importance in the first three stages of the Competition.

NB: Competitors recommended by the Juror for the next stage (marked 'YES')-and only those competitors-should be assigned at least 75 points. This figure will thus constitute the reference point for all the assessments awarded by the Juror in the successive stages.


In first three stages the jury members awarded BOTH yes/no marks AS WELL AS points (>75 for YES, <75 for NO). The average score of 71 is simply the average of all scores given by all jury members for this particular pianist, regardless of yes/no marking.
Thanks! I finally get it.
Posted By: signa Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/26/10 02:32 AM
score or no score, it's subjective anyway. it's not like a final exam or something, and how can you rank art really? it just means that how horribly wrong the result of this competition is, because even jury admit different tastes which lead them to the result.

it's really a sad conclusion of an important competition, and the winner will be forgotten soon enough for many.
Posted By: fuzzy8balls Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/26/10 02:55 AM
See this is why I like the Ultimate Fighting Championship.

When Brock Lesnar was knocked out by Cain Velasquez this Saturday for the championship, there was no doubt in people's minds who is the #1 heavyweight in the world.
Posted By: hcshih Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/26/10 06:50 AM
Originally Posted by Guldesque
Avdeeva's sound is as far as you can possibly get from Chopin's singing tone. I did not think she deserved to win. The second movement of her sonata was rather dismaying, as if her technical ability was simply not enough. Very surprised.


I totally agree with your points. I am fine with Avdeeva's interpretation but her sound lacks the singing tone I expect to hear in Chopin (OTHO, Bazhanov produced the singing tone beautifully). The problem is most ppl can't notice this kind of sound quality, even a jury member might not be able to.

Wrt to 2nd movement of her sonata, it's totally a disaster. The music did not flow at all and the video clearly showed her short of technical ability, as her fingers/wrists were under great stress. Also the 4th movement is another disaster too, which was plain and lack of any emotion that was supposed to be the highlights of 4th movement.

And she was awarded best sonata performance. What a surprise.
Posted By: Victor25 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/26/10 07:45 AM
Different taste is fine, but this is just plain arrogant !!
Posted By: stores Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/26/10 08:34 AM
I think what's funny is the comments from those complaining about the results who also state that it's all about taste.
Posted By: izaldu Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/26/10 12:07 PM
Personally, i make my own conclusions after watching the recitals, for good or bad. Any criticism of the outcome , at the end of the day , reflects what i believe - music is no matter for competitions.

BUT, if competitions have to exist , because of a stupid (IMO) sense of competitiveness brought from different areas of life to music, i think this is as good as it gets. You can't be any more transparent. The decision process is explained in detail, every single performance has been available to everyone for free online. The production of the broadcasts has been brilliant. I even watched the closing recital on my national TV last saturday (Dang Thai Son, Ohlsson ...) . I am very impressed with the effort the organization has made to make this available to everyone interested.
Posted By: pianoloverus Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/26/10 12:31 PM
Originally Posted by signa
it's really a sad conclusion of an important competition, and the winner will be forgotten soon enough for many.
I think the Chopin Competition has one of the strongest records for producing winners that go onto big careers and are considered very great pianists.
Posted By: Rui725 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/26/10 01:08 PM
Chopin competition, thankfully, is not like American Idol laugh
Posted By: BB Player Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/26/10 01:15 PM
Originally Posted by izaldu
... i think this is as good as it gets. You can't be any more transparent. The decision process is explained in detail, every single performance has been available to everyone for free online. <snip> . I am very impressed with the effort the organization has made to make this available to everyone interested.


Agreed. Avdeeva wouldn't have been my choice to win but after going back and listening to all of her performances and a number of the other contestants I certainly don't think her winning is a "travesty" or anywhere near it. The process was fairly open, judges (like everyone else) have their biases but that's where there is a panel of judges - to provide a balance.

Bottom line is that I enjoyed watching the competition and am grateful that it was made available.
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/26/10 01:48 PM
Originally Posted by Andromaque
Wow! A Richteresque 25/11 by Yulianna


Originally Posted by LisztAddict
Same with Avdeeva Yulianna for the 25/11, very nice interpretation but not 100% clean.


Originally Posted by LisztAddict
This is one of the most expressive Scherzo No 4 I ever heard.


Originally Posted by Victor25
Anyway 'she' plays very expressive imo.


Here are a few comments (2 from me) regarding Avdeeva's performance from first round(October 6th). I think her playing was quite consistent throughout the competition. There were some technical errors here and there.

I always thought she could place high in the end.


Posted By: Victor25 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/26/10 02:04 PM
She was my favorite, I loved her playing and was rooting for her. Maybe I hoped for a shared first prize of Wunder and Avdeeva.
Posted By: BB Player Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/26/10 02:45 PM
Originally Posted by Victor25
She was my favorite, I loved her playing and was rooting for her. Maybe I hoped for a shared first prize of Wunder and Avdeeva.

I'd have gone for Wunder first, Avdeeva second but a shared first would have been fine too! My overall feeling was that Wunder was more assured technically so I give him the edge.

It will be interesting to see what happens to their careers.
Posted By: ConcertEtudes Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/26/10 04:18 PM
Originally Posted by Mati
Originally Posted by ConcertEtudes
The point system is terrible, because they weight each round equally


No, they do not. Where did you get that information from?



M.

From the rules, "After the auditions of stage II are completed and the necessary calculations made, the Secretary of the Jury will present to the Jurors ... the sum of the arithmetic means of the points awarded in stages I and II", and

"After the auditions of stage III are completed and the necessary calculations made, the Secretary of the Jury will present to the Jurors ... the sum of the arithmetic means of the points awarded in stages I, II and III", and

"After all the necessary calculations have been made, the Secretary of the Jury will present ... the values of the final results achieved by the competitors in the final, in the form of the sums of the arithmetic means of the points obtained in all four stages of the Competition"

And I agree with you that after the final round, after seeing the final sum of scores, the jury will then assign each player a rank of 1 to 9, with 1 being first place. Then the average rank of each player is then calculated to get the final ranking.

So if Player 1 scored 100-90-80-75 respectively, the jury will see 100, 190, 270, and 345 after each round. Suppose Player 2 scored 75-80-90-95, the jury will see 75, 155, 245, 340.

After the final round the jury will probably rank Player 1 (score of 345) above Player 2 (score of 340), even though Player 2 did much better in the two more important rounds. Also note that since they present only the sum, without the breakdown of points scored in each stage, the jury won't even know that Player 2 scored much higher than Player 1 in the final round.
Posted By: Victor25 Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/26/10 04:29 PM
Why is one round more important than another?
Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/26/10 05:06 PM
Originally Posted by ConcertEtudes

From the rules, "After the auditions of stage II are completed and the necessary calculations made, the Secretary of the Jury will present to the Jurors ... the sum of the arithmetic means of the points awarded in stages I and II", and

(...)


The rules are very general in many places, technically sum can be interpreted both as a plain sum and as a weighted sum. Many sources quoted that it's not a plain sum at all - but it would be best to confirm that information with any of the jury members.


M.
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/26/10 10:42 PM
I took the score board from the first round and put into Excel. What I found was rather interesting.

There are 39 people with 6 or more 'yes' votes from the jury. So we think the 40th person would be the one with 5 votes but with the highest score, right? wrong! Joanna Rozewska had 5 votes, 74.33 points, but she is not a student of a jury member. She did not get into second round. Kotaro Nagano had 5 votes and 74.18 points, but he is a student of a jury member, and he advanced to second round.
Posted By: Andromaque Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/26/10 11:11 PM
LA
I haven't had time to scrutinize this. How did Bozhanov do, mathematically?
Posted By: pianoloverus Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/26/10 11:15 PM
Originally Posted by LisztAddict
I took the score board from the first round and put into Excel. What I found was rather interesting.

There are 39 people with 6 or more 'yes' votes from the jury. So we think the 40th person would be the one with 5 votes but with the highest score, right? wrong! Joanna Rozewska had 5 votes, 74.33 points, but she is not a student of a jury member. She did not get into second round. Kotaro Nagano had 5 votes and 74.18 points, but he is a student of a jury member, and he advanced to second round.
I think they'll have to do a redo on the competition. Unless, of course, the jury wants to award MTS first prize and move everyone elso down one.
Posted By: pianoloverus Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/26/10 11:17 PM
Originally Posted by Andromaque
LA
I haven't had time to scrutinize this. How did Bozhanov do, mathematically?
He's weak on the quadratic formula and trig identites.
Posted By: BB Player Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/26/10 11:55 PM
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by Andromaque
LA
I haven't had time to scrutinize this. How did Bozhanov do, mathematically?
He's weak on the quadratic formula and trig identites.

Well yes, but he's very strong on partial differential equations and complex variables so that should balance - the judging is a joke! laugh
Posted By: fuzzy8balls Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/27/10 12:25 AM
I was kinda surprised MTS didn't score very high with the judges in the first 3 rounds.
Posted By: bellamusica Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/27/10 01:15 AM
Originally Posted by BB Player
Originally Posted by izaldu
... i think this is as good as it gets. You can't be any more transparent. The decision process is explained in detail, every single performance has been available to everyone for free online. <snip> . I am very impressed with the effort the organization has made to make this available to everyone interested.


Agreed. Avdeeva wouldn't have been my choice to win but after going back and listening to all of her performances and a number of the other contestants I certainly don't think her winning is a "travesty" or anywhere near it. The process was fairly open, judges (like everyone else) have their biases but that's where there is a panel of judges - to provide a balance.

Bottom line is that I enjoyed watching the competition and am grateful that it was made available.


I agree too! It was so inspiring to see the results of all the hard work the competitors put into their performances. It would be pretty much impossible for me to decide who is the 'best' performer of them all.

Maybe the judges gave Avdeeva 1st place for managing to play all the rounds of the competition in that suit. It was a nice suit I guess, but it looked like it would be incredibly uncomfortable to perform while wearing it.
Posted By: ConcertEtudes Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/27/10 03:08 PM
Originally Posted by LisztAddict
I took the score board from the first round and put into Excel. What I found was rather interesting.

There are 39 people with 6 or more 'yes' votes from the jury. So we think the 40th person would be the one with 5 votes but with the highest score, right? wrong! Joanna Rozewska had 5 votes, 74.33 points, but she is not a student of a jury member. She did not get into second round. Kotaro Nagano had 5 votes and 74.18 points, but he is a student of a jury member, and he advanced to second round.


The result is correct based on the rules (although it confused me at first as well). Joanna Rozewska got 5 out of 12 possible Yes votes, and Kotaro Nagano got 5 out of 11 possible Yes votes (because he is a student), and 5/11 > 5/12 mathematically. Since Yes votes counts more than score in the first 3 rounds according to the rules, Kotaro Nagano advanced despite having a lower average score.

Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/27/10 05:48 PM
Thanks CE! Now I understand.

Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/28/10 11:14 PM
Some very disturbing news come out.

Quote

Chopin Competition Winner Avdeeva Fu T'song's "successor" by The China Times daily, 2010-10-28

The winner of the Chopin Piano Competition this year was disclosed recently. The first prize went to Russian pianist Yulianna Avdeeva whose teacher was pianist Fu T’song. Fu T’song said that during the preliminary, Avdeeva was almost expelled, and she almost couldn’t get into the first round of competition, "When I knew about it, I expressed solemn protest and proclaimed to withdraw from being a member of the jury."

The main reason why Fu T’song came forward to set the record straight for Avdeeva is not because that she is his student, more importantly is that he sees Avdeeva as his successor. "She has her own ideas; she is not my copy, but she and I have the same soul and the authentic attitude in the pursuit of music."

Fu T’song's father once said, first is to be a (good) human-being, followed by being an artist, musician and pianist, "Avdeeva possesses these four elements. I only lack (the element of) ‘pianist’.” Fou T’song said, he taught himself since childhood, his pianistic technique is without the quality of ‘moving clouds and flowing stream’, and he always feels it is not enough and suffers for it.

Fu T’song started teaching Avdeeva two and half years ago, "her progress was amazing, similar to a jump. In March this year I was still a little worried, but my worries completely dissolved one week before the competition." Fou T’song said, the pleasant quality of Avdeeva is that secular influence doesn’t affect her, and she completely focuses on music, "even after winning the championship, she still keeps discussing with me the methods of proper interpretation of musical pieces."

Fu T’song said that this year the quality of participants of the Chopin Piano Competition is the highest in recent years, "the winners of the fifth, six place this year have the opportunity to become the first in the last few competitions." Regarding why there are no Asian pianists in this year’s final, Fou T’song pointed out: "Most Asian pianists in this year only have technique, and lacks cultural attainment."

Avdeeva will be giving concerts in Japan in December this year, Fou T’song, who treasures talent, has called his friends in Taiwan to start arrangement; he hopes that Taiwan musical fans have the opportunity to witness his hand-picked "successor" at the end of this year.


(Translation by one of the NIFC forum members). Comment from NIFC on this situation as for now:

Quote

We have asked our Competition Department for the official statement in this matter. As you know, each member of the jury was "o...bliged to submit a declaration as to whether any of the participants in the Competition meets the criteria of a 'student', as described in article XI of the Rules of the Competition Jury" so it is better to wait for the official statement.


If the translation is correct and the article seriously was published with that content, it will rise another wave of comments I guess.

This year competition is really almost cursed...


M.
Posted By: pianoloverus Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/29/10 12:33 AM
Avdeeva had to play well enough in all the next rounds to achieve what she did so I don't think this a such a big thing.''
Posted By: jazzyprof Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/29/10 12:40 AM
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Avdeeva had to play well enough in all the next rounds to achieve what she did so I don't think this a such a big thing.''

It won't be a big thing if Fou Tsong disclosed that Avdeeva was his student. He would then have to abstain from voting on her.
Posted By: pianoloverus Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/29/10 12:50 AM
Originally Posted by jazzyprof
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Avdeeva had to play well enough in all the next rounds to achieve what she did so I don't think this a such a big thing.''

It won't be a big thing if Fou Tsong disclosed that Avdeeva was his student. He would then have to abstain from voting on her.
The judges are required to disclose if someone is their student. Do you really think a judge would not disclose this if it were the case? It would be disasterous for the student, the judge, and maybe the competition.
Posted By: jazzyprof Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/29/10 12:57 AM
Then I don't see the point of this statement:
Quote
We have asked our Competition Department for the official statement in this matter. As you know, each member of the jury was "o...bliged to submit a declaration as to whether any of the participants in the Competition meets the criteria of a 'student', as described in article XI of the Rules of the Competition Jury" so it is better to wait for the official statement.
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/29/10 01:31 AM
Originally Posted by jazzyprof
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Avdeeva had to play well enough in all the next rounds to achieve what she did so I don't think this a such a big thing.''

It won't be a big thing if Fou Tsong disclosed that Avdeeva was his student. He would then have to abstain from voting on her.


I think this is a very serious matter in competitions. Not only he could give her an extra vote in every round, he could give her extra points to give her an edge over the competitors.
Posted By: pianoloverus Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/29/10 02:24 AM
Originally Posted by LisztAddict
Originally Posted by jazzyprof
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Avdeeva had to play well enough in all the next rounds to achieve what she did so I don't think this a such a big thing.''

It won't be a big thing if Fou Tsong disclosed that Avdeeva was his student. He would then have to abstain from voting on her.


I think this is a very serious matter in competitions. Not only he could give her an extra vote in every round, he could give her extra points to give her an edge over the competitors.
The Judges can't vote for any of their students.
Posted By: signa Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/29/10 03:10 AM
Originally Posted by Mati
Some very disturbing news come out.

Quote

Chopin Competition Winner Avdeeva Fu T'song's "successor" by The China Times daily, 2010-10-28

The winner of the Chopin Piano Competition this year was disclosed recently. The first prize went to Russian pianist Yulianna Avdeeva whose teacher was pianist Fu T’song. Fu T’song said that during the preliminary, Avdeeva was almost expelled, and she almost couldn’t get into the first round of competition, "When I knew about it, I expressed solemn protest and proclaimed to withdraw from being a member of the jury."

The main reason why Fu T’song came forward to set the record straight for Avdeeva is not because that she is his student, more importantly is that he sees Avdeeva as his successor. "She has her own ideas; she is not my copy, but she and I have the same soul and the authentic attitude in the pursuit of music."

Fu T’song's father once said, first is to be a (good) human-being, followed by being an artist, musician and pianist, "Avdeeva possesses these four elements. I only lack (the element of) ‘pianist’.” Fou T’song said, he taught himself since childhood, his pianistic technique is without the quality of ‘moving clouds and flowing stream’, and he always feels it is not enough and suffers for it.

Fu T’song started teaching Avdeeva two and half years ago, "her progress was amazing, similar to a jump. In March this year I was still a little worried, but my worries completely dissolved one week before the competition." Fou T’song said, the pleasant quality of Avdeeva is that secular influence doesn’t affect her, and she completely focuses on music, "even after winning the championship, she still keeps discussing with me the methods of proper interpretation of musical pieces."

Fu T’song said that this year the quality of participants of the Chopin Piano Competition is the highest in recent years, "the winners of the fifth, six place this year have the opportunity to become the first in the last few competitions." Regarding why there are no Asian pianists in this year’s final, Fou T’song pointed out: "Most Asian pianists in this year only have technique, and lacks cultural attainment."

Avdeeva will be giving concerts in Japan in December this year, Fou T’song, who treasures talent, has called his friends in Taiwan to start arrangement; he hopes that Taiwan musical fans have the opportunity to witness his hand-picked "successor" at the end of this year.


(Translation by one of the NIFC forum members). Comment from NIFC on this situation as for now:

Quote

We have asked our Competition Department for the official statement in this matter. As you know, each member of the jury was "o...bliged to submit a declaration as to whether any of the participants in the Competition meets the criteria of a 'student', as described in article XI of the Rules of the Competition Jury" so it is better to wait for the official statement.


If the translation is correct and the article seriously was published with that content, it will rise another wave of comments I guess.

This year competition is really almost cursed...


M.


it's really disturbing, especially when many people question the result and wondered how that result was reached. the competition officials should give a formal response on this.
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/29/10 03:38 AM
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by LisztAddict
Originally Posted by jazzyprof
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Avdeeva had to play well enough in all the next rounds to achieve what she did so I don't think this a such a big thing.''

It won't be a big thing if Fou Tsong disclosed that Avdeeva was his student. He would then have to abstain from voting on her.


I think this is a very serious matter in competitions. Not only he could give her an extra vote in every round, he could give her extra points to give her an edge over the competitors.
The Judges can't vote for any of their students.


That's true, but he did because he did not disclose the fact that he is Avdeeva's teacher. If you look at Avdeeva's score board, you see she got all 12 votes on every round.
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/29/10 03:40 AM
Originally Posted by signa
it's really disturbing, especially when many people question the result and wondered how that result was reached. the competition officials should give a formal response on this.


I believe the NIFC is trying to get a response on this matter from the competition department.
Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/29/10 10:24 AM
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by jazzyprof
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Avdeeva had to play well enough in all the next rounds to achieve what she did so I don't think this a such a big thing.''

It won't be a big thing if Fou Tsong disclosed that Avdeeva was his student. He would then have to abstain from voting on her.
The judges are required to disclose if someone is their student. Do you really think a judge would not disclose this if it were the case? It would be disasterous for the student, the judge, and maybe the competition.


We don't think - it's the fact. Fou Ts'ong did not disclose her as his student, and exactly this is the problem.

He was able to vote for her, and he shouldn't have been.


M.
Posted By: jlynne Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/29/10 10:50 AM
Originally Posted by ConcertEtudes

The result is correct based on the rules (although it confused me at first as well). Joanna Rozewska got 5 out of 12 possible Yes votes, and Kotaro Nagano got 5 out of 11 possible Yes votes (because he is a student), and 5/11 > 5/12 mathematically. Since Yes votes counts more than score in the first 3 rounds according to the rules, Kotaro Nagano advanced despite having a lower average score.


Under these rules, the loss of the teacher's vote seems to give an advantage rather than level the field.

And if that's true, then Avdeeva didn't benefit from her teacher's failure to disclose. At least not in the first three rounds.

Am I misunderstanding something?
Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/29/10 11:25 AM
Considering she got 12/12, she would get 11/11 without Fu Cong votes - so in terms of yes/no voting there would be no difference. There is however a possibility that her absolute points in 0-100 scale would be different. For example, Fu Cong might have given her 100's throughout, raising her average score.

I am not saying he did, we don't know that. We only know he did not disclose. No official statement has been given yet.


M.
Posted By: pianoloverus Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/29/10 11:35 AM
Originally Posted by jlynne
Originally Posted by ConcertEtudes

The result is correct based on the rules (although it confused me at first as well). Joanna Rozewska got 5 out of 12 possible Yes votes, and Kotaro Nagano got 5 out of 11 possible Yes votes (because he is a student), and 5/11 > 5/12 mathematically. Since Yes votes counts more than score in the first 3 rounds according to the rules, Kotaro Nagano advanced despite having a lower average score.


Under these rules, the loss of the teacher's vote seems to give an advantage rather than level the field.

And if that's true, then Avdeeva didn't benefit from her teacher's failure to disclose. At least not in the first three rounds.

Am I misunderstanding something?
I think so. I think you'd really have to compare say 6/12(with the teacher's yes note) to 5/11(without the teacher's vote) in which case 6/12 is better.

I don't understand how a judge could do what Fou T'song did(if this thread hasn't missed something). Wouldn't his reputation as a judge be ruined and wouldn't his student's victory be compromised? Surely someone(if not any of the judges) would know that the Avdeeva was his student and the judging system is transparent enough so that when the scores are revealed it would cause a problem. The originally quoted article didn't seems to mention it was illegal for Fou T'song to vote but mainly that he had threatened to quit the jury, so maybe the above interpretations are incorrect?
Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/29/10 11:53 AM
Originally Posted by pianoloverus

I don't understand how a judge could do what Fou T'song did(if this thread hasn't missed something). Wouldn't his reputation as a judge be ruined and wouldn't his student's victory be compromised? Surely someone(if not any of the judges) would know that the Avdeeva was his student and the judging system is transparent enough so that when the scores are revealed it would cause a problem. The originally quoted article didn't seems to mention it was illegal for Fou T'song to vote but mainly that he had threatened to quit the jury, so maybe the above interpretations are incorrect?


I don't understand either. But I am afraid we do not miss anything. This article is his own interview - it's obvious he doesn't say openly "I wasn't allowed to vote, but I did".

Fact number one: He, however, claims that he was teaching her for the past 2.5 years.
Fact number two: The rules clearly oblige a Jury member to mark a candidate as a student if a student-teacher relationship is longer than a certain period of time.
Fact number three: Avdeeva got 12/12, so he was voting, so he didn't disclose her as a student.

I am really wondered what he had thought he could achieve this way. Her career, if not ruined (if she's good enough, she'll manage with or without it), will be much more bumpy that way.


M.
Posted By: izaldu Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/29/10 12:17 PM
Sad state of things, as i think the crapstorm to come will cast shadows on an otherwise excellent edition.

Adveeva's first place has been fair enough to me. It definitely doesn't look like a travesty or injustice of any sorts, could be someone else but she definietly earned her stripes too.

As for his teacher, he has behaved like a certified dummy. Dummy being a euphemism for something much more drastic , clearly not suitable for this forum.

Having sid that, wasn't Wunder's teacher in the jury too?
Posted By: pno Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/29/10 12:33 PM
It is said that it was really a few master classes, which is not a teacher-student relationship as defined by the competition rule.
Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/29/10 12:45 PM
Quote

It is said that it was really a few master classes, which is not a teacher-student relationship as defined by the competition rule.


Are you talking about Fou Ts'ong or Andrzej Jasinski? There is an article in one of Polish journals that he was teaching Avdeeva as well - but it was a masterclass relationship indeed.

As for Fou Ts'ong, the only source I know is the interview itself, where he didn't precise how the relationship went - only saying it lasted for over 2 years.

Do you have any other source about this?

That's why we are waiting for an official statement - it is possible, that Fou Ts'ong was giving only masterclasses as well... but why would he say she was his student for over 2 years?

I hope NIFC will be able to clarify the state of things soon. It would be a shame if this competition was remembered as a scandal, and not a wonderful artistic event - which it was.


M.
Posted By: pianoloverus Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/29/10 01:13 PM
My guess is that according to the official competition rules a about what's needed to be considered a teacher of a competitor, Fou T'song didn't qualify as Avdeeva's teacher.

I think anyone would rather not win a competition than be known as someone who won a competition though cheating. And Fou T'song's reputation in general and more particularly as a competition judge would be in bad shape. It doesn't seem reasonably possible for these reasons.
Posted By: landorrano Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/29/10 01:20 PM
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
I think anyone would rather not win a competition than be known as someone who won a competition though cheating.


Ha !
Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/29/10 01:36 PM
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
My guess is that according to the official competition rules a about what's needed to be considered a teacher of a competitor, Fou T'song didn't qualify as Avdeeva's teacher.


I seriously hope you are right this time.

Quote

The term 'student' refers to a participant in the Competition who fulfils one or more of the following criteria:
- he/she is currently a student of the Juror,
- he/she has been a regular school or private student of the Juror for a period of more than one year since the conclusion of the fifteenth edition of the Competition,
- he/she has had private lessons with the Juror since 30 July 2009,
- he/she is related to the Juror.
The term 'student' does not apply to a participant's relationship with the Juror during a masterclass course.


That's what rules say

Quote

Fu T’song started teaching Avdeeva two and half years ago, "her progress was amazing, similar to a jump. In March this year I was still a little worried, but my worries completely dissolved one week before the competition."


And that's what Fu T'song said.

To comply with your idea, his statement would have to be grossly inaccurate - but I still hope you are right here, and he did not break the rules after all.


M.
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/29/10 01:47 PM
Quote

Fu T’song started teaching Avdeeva two and half years ago, "her progress was amazing, similar to a jump. In March this year I was still a little worried, but my worries completely dissolved one week before the competition."


This means to me that he was still closely guiding her at least up to one week before the competition.
Posted By: izaldu Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/29/10 01:58 PM
Originally Posted by LisztAddict
Quote

Fu T’song started teaching Avdeeva two and half years ago, "her progress was amazing, similar to a jump. In March this year I was still a little worried, but my worries completely dissolved one week before the competition."


This means to me that he was still closely guiding her at least up to one week before the competition.


This guy has messed up BIGTIME. Before , during and after the competition.

So, what s your take? Should the first prize be taken away from Adveeva? If rules apply ...
Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/29/10 02:04 PM
I believe she'd won anyway, with or without Fou Ts'ong. Her average score was a whole point higher than Wunder - that change to a mean value can't be made by a one person. At least few of them would have to change their minds.

So I guess no, not at all. She's the winner and she should be the winner.
Posted By: izaldu Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/29/10 02:10 PM
I think she would have won anyway too, looking at the scores. But you never know, and the fact is Fu Tsong blatantly broke the rules. And in the process he probably favoured his student. It would be hard for anyone to take the prize away from Adveeva, but at the same time, Fu Tsong's behaviour should not go without punishment. Hmmm ...
Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/29/10 02:16 PM
Quote

but at the same time, Fu Tsong's behaviour should not go without punishment. Hmmm ...


Exactly my point. It's Fu Tsong who messed up, not Avdeeva. Why punish HER?
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/29/10 02:21 PM
IMO, Fu T'song or no Fu T'song, the first prize wasn't out of place for her. But there was a possibility for 2 first prizes.

Besides that, there is now a black mark on the winner.
Posted By: pno Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/29/10 02:28 PM
I read that from one of the response comments to that article in Facebook. Of course I have no idea how true it is. There are so many rumours flying around in the internet.

BTW have you heard of the rumour of power struggle between the old jury (2005) and the current jury?


Originally Posted by Mati
Quote

It is said that it was really a few master classes, which is not a teacher-student relationship as defined by the competition rule.


Are you talking about Fou Ts'ong or Andrzej Jasinski? There is an article in one of Polish journals that he was teaching Avdeeva as well - but it was a masterclass relationship indeed.

As for Fou Ts'ong, the only source I know is the interview itself, where he didn't precise how the relationship went - only saying it lasted for over 2 years.

Do you have any other source about this?

That's why we are waiting for an official statement - it is possible, that Fou Ts'ong was giving only masterclasses as well... but why would he say she was his student for over 2 years?

I hope NIFC will be able to clarify the state of things soon. It would be a shame if this competition was remembered as a scandal, and not a wonderful artistic event - which it was.


M.
Posted By: jazzyprof Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/29/10 02:38 PM
What worries me more is his militant and untoward advocacy for his student, even threatening to withdraw, when he had not disclosed the existence of a student-teacher relationship. It is possible that his advocacy could have swayed other jurors.
Quote
Fu T’song said that during the preliminary, Avdeeva was almost expelled, and she almost couldn’t get into the first round of competition, "When I knew about it, I expressed solemn protest and proclaimed to withdraw from being a member of the jury."
Posted By: pno Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/29/10 02:52 PM
I think it's still too early to speculate at this moment.
Posted By: BB Player Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/29/10 03:15 PM
Originally Posted by LisztAddict
IMO, Fu T'song or no Fu T'song, the first prize wasn't out of place for her. But there was a possibility for 2 first prizes.

Besides that, there is now a black mark on the winner.


Unfortunately, that is true and I do indeed think it's unfortunate. Every time she's written about for years to come there will no doubt be references to "her controversial win at the Chopin competition" and those who think others should have won won't miss any opportunities to revisit the "controversy".

Sad. IMHO it was a very good competition and she's a worthy winner. As I've said elsewhere in this thread, she wouldn't have been my first choice but I can easily live with the result.
Posted By: izaldu Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/29/10 04:52 PM
Mati, i hear you, but put yourself in the shoes of another competitor. Granted, like BB noted, she is a worthy winner, but the results were influenced by his teacher's votes.

What were his votes for the other finalists?
Posted By: ConcertEtudes Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/29/10 05:20 PM
I can't really believe that either Fu T'song or Avdeeva would be this stupid to not disclose such as teacher/student relationship, as other people must know about this.

I am more inclined to believe the newpaper reporter mis-understood, mis-interpreted, mis-translated, or even made up parts of the article to get attention. Afterall, China Times Daily is by no means an official/credible source of information. At least, the third paragraph was taken from Issue 20 of the competition's newspaper.
Posted By: pianoloverus Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/29/10 05:27 PM
Originally Posted by izaldu
Mati, i hear you, but put yourself in the shoes of another competitor. Granted, like BB noted, she is a worthy winner, but the results were influenced by his teacher's votes.
We don't know if he was her "teacher" according to competition rules. If he wasn't, then everything is fine. If he was, then I don't think it matters whether or not she would have won anyway.
Posted By: pno Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/29/10 05:57 PM
I can think of a scenario that could fit into both sides of the story.

* Avdeeva's first masterclass with Fou was in 2.5 years ago. (So Fou started 'teaching' Avedeeva 2.5 years ago)
* She have had one or more masterclasses with Fou since then, but not as a true student by the definition.
* The last masterclass with Fou was in March and Fou was worried about her ability to compete.
* A week before the competition, when Fou listened to her playing again in an occasion, he was convinced.

So technically she was not a student despite getting extensive advice from him.

Is that a good explanation? Am I good at making things up? laugh

Posted By: jazzyprof Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/29/10 05:59 PM
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
If he was, then I don't think it matters whether or not she would have won anyway.
Of course it matters if indeed he was. Otherwise what's the point of having rules?
Posted By: pianoloverus Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/29/10 06:38 PM
Originally Posted by jazzyprof
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
If he was, then I don't think it matters whether or not she would have won anyway.
Of course it matters if indeed he was. Otherwise what's the point of having rules?
I think you misread what I wrote.
My statement means that if he was her teacher, then even if she would have won anyway(had enough points form the other judges), she will have won illegaly and that's a problem for her and for her teacher.
Posted By: jazzyprof Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/29/10 06:55 PM
Originally Posted by pno
I think it's still too early to speculate at this moment.


Originally Posted by pno
I can think of a scenario that could fit into both sides of the story.

Fits in the category of wild speculation.


pianoloverus: Sorry I misread your post.

Posted By: pno Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/29/10 08:27 PM
Originally Posted by jazzyprof
Originally Posted by pno
I think it's still too early to speculate at this moment.


Originally Posted by pno
I can think of a scenario that could fit into both sides of the story.

Fits in the category of wild speculation.



It's too hard to resist. Speculation is human nature! laugh
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/29/10 11:40 PM
Originally Posted by pno
I can think of a scenario that could fit into both sides of the story.

* Avdeeva's first masterclass with Fou was in 2.5 years ago. (So Fou started 'teaching' Avedeeva 2.5 years ago)
* She have had one or more masterclasses with Fou since then, but not as a true student by the definition.
* The last masterclass with Fou was in March and Fou was worried about her ability to compete.
...........Is that a good explanation? Am I good at making things up? laugh



I like that! laugh

She could have "masterclass" with him once or twice a week over the last 2.5 years.
Posted By: Andromaque Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/30/10 02:08 AM
You know what I find odd is why would Avdeeva still need regular schooling?? She went to the Gnessin School then the Gnessin Academy with Vladimir Tropp for teacher, then the Zurich Hochschule where she studied with Scherbakov.. I do not imagine she still needs regular teaching.
Since it is the weekend, I am speculating that some of this "studying" or coaching is a component of an overall strategy to conquer this prestigious competition. Avdeeva "studying" with Fou T'song (who has not produced any glorious students to my knowledge, unlike say Tropp), Wunder studying with Harasiewicz, touring Poland, being familiar with the Orchestra and its conductor, etc.. etc..

Now what I find to be outrageous is lumping Bozhanov just ahead Dumont in 4th position!!
A quick look at the average scores from the first 3 stages shows Avdeeva to be first with 93.36, followed closely by Bozhanov with 91.97 and then Genuisas. Wunder adn Trifonov come next with scores in the high 80s and finally Dumont with 79.44.
I do not beleive that Dumont is anywhere near the technique and musicality of Bozhanov.I also do not think that the final stage could have been so detrimental..
I read that Evgeni refused to play in the winners concert and forfeited his prize and money.
I do think that Bozhanov's stage mannerism alienated a lot of people, but if one remains unbiased and focused on the music, his sound, phrasing, sensitivity are gorgeous.


Originally Posted by Andromaque
You know what I find odd is why would Avdeeva still need regular schooling?? She went to the Gnessin School then the Gnessin Academy with Vladimir Tropp for teacher, then the Zurich Hochschule where she studied with Scherbakov.. I do not imagine she still needs regular teaching.
Since it is the weekend, I am speculating that some of this "studying" or coaching is a component of an overall strategy to conquer this prestigious competition. Avdeeva "studying" with Fou T'song (who has not produced any glorious students to my knowledge, unlike say Tropp), Wunder studying with Harasiewicz, touring Poland, being familiar with the Orchestra and its conductor, etc.. etc..

Now what I find to be outrageous is lumping Bozhanov just ahead Dumont in 4th position!!
A quick look at the average scores from the first 3 stages shows Avdeeva to be first with 93.36, followed closely by Bozhanov with 91.97 and then Genuisas. Wunder adn Trifonov come next with scores in the high 80s and finally Dumont with 79.44.
I do not beleive that Dumont is anywhere near the technique and musicality of Bozhanov.I also do not think that the final stage could have been so detrimental..
I read that Evgeni refused to play in the winners concert and forfeited his prize and money.
I do think that Bozhanov's stage mannerism alienated a lot of people, but if one remains unbiased and focused on the music, his sound, phrasing, sensitivity are gorgeous.




Everything said in this post is right on the money.... from top prizewinners 'coaching' with prominent jury members to Dumont (and Tysman's) laughable appearences in the finals.....

It was a strange competition this year. Avdeeva was very, VERY solid across all the rounds...but I do not think she is on the level of Blechacz, for example.
Posted By: signa Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/30/10 04:01 PM
as the officials admit, the jury changed rules on the final round, just so to score differently and eliminate the chance for Bozhanov to get to either 1st or 2nd place. Bozhanov did the right thing to leave town in protest, because it's really not about the money but artistic principle. he is the real winner for many people who watched him in the competition. i would go for his concerts/recitals when he's playing here in US.

2010 Chopin competition will forever be remembered as a scandalous and controversial ending, and people will remember however Evgeni Bozhanov, regardless the result.
Posted By: pianoloverus Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/30/10 04:04 PM
Originally Posted by Andromaque
Now what I find to be outrageous is lumping Bozhanov just ahead Dumont in 4th position!!
A quick look at the average scores from the first 3 stages shows Avdeeva to be first with 93.36, followed closely by Bozhanov with 91.97 and then Genuisas. Wunder adn Trifonov come next with scores in the high 80s and finally Dumont with 79.44.
I do not beleive that Dumont is anywhere near the technique and musicality of Bozhanov.I also do not think that the final stage could have been so detrimental..
I read that Evgeni refused to play in the winners concert and forfeited his prize and money.
I do think that Bozhanov's stage mannerism alienated a lot of people, but if one remains unbiased and focused on the music, his sound, phrasing, sensitivity are gorgeous.
Apparently his concerto performance was for many people very bad. I also don't think stage mannerism is something that should be ignored, just because it may not be the most important thing.
Posted By: pianoloverus Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/30/10 04:10 PM
Originally Posted by signa
as the officials admit, the jury changed rules on the final round, just so to score differently and eliminate the chance for Bozhanov to get to either 1st or 2nd place. Bozhanov did the right thing to leave town in protest, because it's really not about the money but artistic principle. he is the real winner for many people who watched him in the competition. i would go for his concerts/recitals when he's playing here in US.

2010 Chopin competition will forever be remembered as a scandalous and controversial ending, and people will remember however Evgeni Bozhanov, regardless the result.
Did the jury change the rules in the last round or were the rules for the last round different but in place before the competition started? I don't remember seeing anywhere that the jury decided to change the competition rules after the competition started?


Posted By: pno Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/30/10 07:13 PM
I Told you so!

http://www.facebook.com/notes/yuanpu-chiao/guan-yu-fu-cong-yuavdeeva/287436139943
Posted By: pno Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/30/10 07:26 PM
Response from Chopin Competition:

Narodowy Instytut Fryderyka Chopina In accordance with Clause 10 of the Competition Judging Rules, Mr. Fou Ts'ong and all the other Judges had signed a declaration concerning the participation of their own students ...(as defined in Clause 11 of the Rules) in the Competition. By signing the declaration, Mr. Fou Ts'ong explicitly confirmed that Yulianna Avdeeva was not a student of his within the meaning of the Judging Rules.

We have invited some of the world's finest and most respected pianistic authorities to judge the contestants. The Fryderyk Chopin Institute has full confidence that the Judges had declared their interests accurately and in good faith.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Narodowy-Instytut-Fryderyka-Chopina/223544980519#topic_top
Posted By: signa Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/31/10 05:28 AM
i kind of lost respect for Fou Tsong, just from what he said and did before, during and after this competition...

here is a post on a Russian forum about Kevin Kenner's interview, if someone is interested in reading (google translation):

original post at:
http://www.forumklassika.ru/showthread.php?t=56030&p=1031774&viewfull=1#post1031774

(help1962) Re: XVI Chopin Competition, Warsaw 2010
In the latest issue of the weekly Tygodnik Povshehny "published an interview with a huge Kevin Kenner. The first questions, of course, about the competition, the work of Kenner in the jury and an assessment of the winners.
Kenner said he supports the jury's decision and fully agree with him. But: he voted differently. Despite the disagreements, the jury failed to reach a consensus. Each of the finalists was very interesting, everyone had something to say at this competition. Especially the big problems have arisen in his finale, because the musicians to build in order of size was virtually impossible: too high was the quality of interpretation to ascribe to each higher or lower score. The easiest was to work at the beginning of the competition.
Next: each member of the jury decides, using its own evaluation criteria. Kenner admits that he tried to listen to the performance of a work, not by matching them with their own concepts and interpretive intentions, to find the internal logic of each interpretation.
On the question of how to deal with the tradition according to which aesthetics, which is the winner of the contest, becomes a model (model) for the music of youth, Kenner said he does not like to talk about model interpretation. However, he was convinced that the interpretation could Avdeeva from beginning to end aroused general interest. Perhaps Avdeev is not an artist, with exceptional charisma, but she provided interpretation is deeply biased in the search for artistic truth, concealed in the manuscripts of the composer. Her non-traditional game, he even finds it difficult to say, where are her interpretation, so they are original, but the ideas are taken directly from the note text. Avdeev even forced him to turn to the notes and take a closer look at the author's text - and for this he is grateful to the pianist. A careful reading of music is especially important now that the growing interest in historical knowledge with regard to the music of Chopin, when it happened national publications, containing rich sources and the first versions of works.
Further, Kenner said of the finalists he is closest Wunder. However, during the competition he has experienced many magical moments, aided by various musicians. Particularly deeply he felt listening to the game Bozhanova the third and even second stage of competition, and it's a tragedy that he failed so to perform well in finale.Avdeeva was an exception among all, because she played well at all stages of the competition.
Bozhanov revived the music of Chopin in such images, which he never thought of. Kenner believes to be a great shopenistom - which means, above all, great to play mazurkas, ballads, Scherzo, waltzes, and least of all - Concerts. Kenner believes that Bozhanov - who will play a very important role in the performance of music by Chopin. Bozhanov back to the early performance tradition, the tradition of the XIX century, which has been forgotten in the postwar years, when the musical purists began to promote the so-called objective response. He believes that the game itself Chopin had more in common with the tradition of late Romanticism than with those that came later.
Later in the interview Kenner tells about his experience playing on historical instruments, commends the tools of "Fazioli and a mature game Francois Dumont.

Posted By: izaldu Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/31/10 07:12 AM
FuTsong should be banned from being mmember of the jury ever again. And Bozhanov got taxed on trying to have a bit of personality, in my opinion. That's the impression i get.

Regarding Blechacz, i think had he been here this year, he would ve come out victor unanimously. I do not expect a Blechacz every 5 years ...
Posted By: signa Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/31/10 07:38 AM
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by signa
as the officials admit, the jury changed rules on the final round, just so to score differently and eliminate the chance for Bozhanov to get to either 1st or 2nd place. Bozhanov did the right thing to leave town in protest, because it's really not about the money but artistic principle. he is the real winner for many people who watched him in the competition. i would go for his concerts/recitals when he's playing here in US.

2010 Chopin competition will forever be remembered as a scandalous and controversial ending, and people will remember however Evgeni Bozhanov, regardless the result.
Did the jury change the rules in the last round or were the rules for the last round different but in place before the competition started? I don't remember seeing anywhere that the jury decided to change the competition rules after the competition started?

i read from here and might from somewhere else too:

see reply #1386
http://www.forumklassika.ru/showthread.php?t=56030&page=139


Re: XVI Chopin Competition, Warsaw 2010
Who will translate this accurately?

During the Jury meeting on the 20th of October 2010 at 7 pm the Jurors have decided to depart from the system of evaluation of the finalists described in the Rules of the Competition Jury (paragraphs XXI-XXII). The Jurors agreed on a different method of evaluation, regardless of the points awarded in the previous stages - the method which was based on the numerical system presenting the overall results after the competition performances. The Jurors used the integer numbers from the total scale 1-10 (where 1 - the highest value, 1910 - the lowest value), with exception of the "students" (as descried in paragraphs XI) and with the correction (mentioned in paragraph XV) of a point range. It was decided, that the final verdict of the Jury concerning the main prizes will be made before disclosing the names of the participants, similarly to the decisions made during the classification between stages I-III. (http://konkurs.chopin.pl/en/edition/...ts2/1986_final)
Posted By: pianoloverus Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/31/10 11:25 AM
Originally Posted by signa
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by signa
as the officials admit, the jury changed rules on the final round, just so to score differently and eliminate the chance for Bozhanov to get to either 1st or 2nd place. Bozhanov did the right thing to leave town in protest, because it's really not about the money but artistic principle. he is the real winner for many people who watched him in the competition. i would go for his concerts/recitals when he's playing here in US.

2010 Chopin competition will forever be remembered as a scandalous and controversial ending, and people will remember however Evgeni Bozhanov, regardless the result.
Did the jury change the rules in the last round or were the rules for the last round different but in place before the competition started? I don't remember seeing anywhere that the jury decided to change the competition rules after the competition started?

i read from here and might from somewhere else too:

see reply #1386
http://www.forumklassika.ru/showthread.php?t=56030&page=139


Re: XVI Chopin Competition, Warsaw 2010
Who will translate this accurately?

During the Jury meeting on the 20th of October 2010 at 7 pm the Jurors have decided to depart from the system of evaluation of the finalists described in the Rules of the Competition Jury (paragraphs XXI-XXII). The Jurors agreed on a different method of evaluation, regardless of the points awarded in the previous stages - the method which was based on the numerical system presenting the overall results after the competition performances. The Jurors used the integer numbers from the total scale 1-10 (where 1 - the highest value, 1910 - the lowest value), with exception of the "students" (as descried in paragraphs XI) and with the correction (mentioned in paragraph XV) of a point range. It was decided, that the final verdict of the Jury concerning the main prizes will be made before disclosing the names of the participants, similarly to the decisions made during the classification between stages I-III. (http://konkurs.chopin.pl/en/edition/...ts2/1986_final)


Who is the source of this quote and how trustworthy is it?
The paragraph is extremely convoluted and hard to follow, but I don't see how changing the system at the last minute, even it is was done, would favor or disfavor any of the contestants? Surely any system used took into account all the performances by a finalist during the competition. How would a new system automatically eliminate Bozhanov from a top prize?
Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/31/10 12:14 PM
It's from the official competition website, so it's as trustworthy as it gets I guess.

The case about Bohzanov is a mere speculation and I don't remember any official statement regarding him in particular.

What I've been told by many music lovers (no official sources!), though, is that with simply summarizing the points from all stages he would have an edge impossible to lose with sloppy concerto performance, because he had a huge amount of points collected in previous stages. People tend to say that his concerto was "enough" to disqualify him from being a winner (and points system perhaps wouldn't be able to make such a radical changes with concerto alone). I don't believe it, however, at least not fully.

I would be cautious with making such statements though. We do not really know the exact rules (e.g. how important the final concerto would be compared to other stages), and how the discussion with "new" rules went. We don't know the detailed reasons that governed the rules' change neither.
Posted By: Andromaque Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/31/10 12:33 PM
A rule change during the competition is a bad idea regardless of the consequences. It cannot be but suspicious! After all this is a major competition that has been around for years.. One would assume that much thinking and planning went into the rules, which presumably would have been in application for the last 60 years.. Why an impromptu change??? Highly unprofessional, if nothing else..
Posted By: pianoloverus Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/31/10 01:24 PM
Originally Posted by Mati
It's from the official competition website, so it's as trustworthy as it gets I guess.
The information linked a few posts above this one looks to me like it's from a Russian blog or forum about the Chopin Competition or classical music in general?The official website certainly appears in an English version, no?


Originally Posted by Mati
What I've been told by many music lovers (no official sources!), though, is that with simply summarizing the points from all stages he would have an edge impossible to lose with sloppy concerto performance, because he had a huge amount of points collected in previous stages. People tend to say that his concerto was "enough" to disqualify him from being a winner (and points system perhaps wouldn't be able to make such a radical changes with concerto alone). I don't believe it, however, at least not fully.
He was in second or third place after the all the rounds before the last, right? So dropping two places doesn't seem so difficult. I don't think it makes sense that the judges agreed to purposely change the rules with the idea of making things harder for Bohzanov because they were the same judges who had given him all those previous points in the rounds before the last.
Posted By: Andromaque Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/31/10 01:46 PM
Actually, FWIW, he was in second place, if you average the scores of the first 3 stages
Posted By: pno Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/31/10 02:58 PM
Originally Posted by izaldu
FuTsong should be banned from being mmember of the jury ever again.
...


Can you explain why? Legitimate reason I mean. Not something like 'I don't like that result'.
Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/31/10 03:22 PM
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by Mati
It's from the official competition website, so it's as trustworthy as it gets I guess.


The information linked a few posts above this one looks to me like it's from a Russian blog or forum about the Chopin Competition or classical music in general?The official website certainly appears in an English version, no?


Yes, but the quoted fragment was from english version of the page. Look:

http://konkurs.chopin.pl/en/edition/xvi/verdicts2/1986_final

Quote

During the Jury meeting on the 20th of October 2010 at 5 p.m. the Jurors have decided to depart from the system of evaluation of the finalists described in the Rules of the Competition Jury (paragraphs XXI-XXII). The Jurors agreed on a different method of evaluation, regardless of the points awarded in the previous stages – the method which was based on the numerical system presenting the overall results after the competition performances. The Jurors used the integer numbers from the total scale 1-10 (where 1 – the highest value, 10 – the lowest value), with exception of the “students” (as described in paragraphs XI) and with the correction (mentioned in paragraph XV) of 1 point range. It was decided, that the final verdict of the Jury concerning the main prizes will be made before disclosing the names of the participants, similarly to the decisions made during the classification between stages I-III.
Posted By: Andromaque Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/31/10 03:27 PM
Kind of shocking. Did they ever give an explanation as to the rationale of changing the rules in the middle of the game??
Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/31/10 03:32 PM
No official (i.e. written) explanation. What the head of the Jury said in an TV interview was along these lines (not a direct translation, though - I don't have this recorded):

"All of us have their own feelings about all the candidates and their playing, which after hearing them throughout the competition may be slightly different than the absolute score given during their performances. We want to take the whole image into account while judging. Also the Jury members think that art can't be measured and discussion is more appropriate."
Posted By: pno Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/31/10 03:33 PM
Because they didn't like the fact that the system ranked certain competitor/s too high.
Posted By: signa Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/31/10 03:37 PM
thanks Mati for getting the official statements. i didn't remember where i read it the 1st place, and had to quote it from that ru site.

it makes no sense of changing rules in the middle of competition, unless they wanted ranking the winners differently after 3 stages showing the obvious leaders. it's my speculation, but everyone would ask the same question with regard to such a rule change.
Posted By: pianoloverus Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/31/10 03:40 PM
Originally Posted by Mati
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by Mati
It's from the official competition website, so it's as trustworthy as it gets I guess.


The information linked a few posts above this one looks to me like it's from a Russian blog or forum about the Chopin Competition or classical music in general?The official website certainly appears in an English version, no?


Yes, but the quoted fragment was from english version of the page. Look:

http://konkurs.chopin.pl/en/edition/xvi/verdicts2/1986_final

Quote

During the Jury meeting on the 20th of October 2010 at 5 p.m. the Jurors have decided to depart from the system of evaluation of the finalists described in the Rules of the Competition Jury (paragraphs XXI-XXII). The Jurors agreed on a different method of evaluation, regardless of the points awarded in the previous stages – the method which was based on the numerical system presenting the overall results after the competition performances. The Jurors used the integer numbers from the total scale 1-10 (where 1 – the highest value, 10 – the lowest value), with exception of the “students” (as described in paragraphs XI) and with the correction (mentioned in paragraph XV) of 1 point range. It was decided, that the final verdict of the Jury concerning the main prizes will be made before disclosing the names of the participants, similarly to the decisions made during the classification between stages I-III.
That looks official.
Posted By: Mati Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/31/10 03:41 PM
Yes, signa, I agree.

I had one scenario in mind, but for it to be true we would have to be sure that originally the points were to be summarized without any weights (I mean, stage1+stage2+stage3+stage4).

Let's say, we have three pianists.

Pianist 1: 70 + 80 + 90 + 100 = 340
Pianist 2: 100 + 90 + 80 + 70 = 340
Pisnist 3: 85 + 85 + 85 + 85 = 340

All of them sum up to 340, but their performance in the competition is completely different. One of them is good and consistent throughout, another one started spectacularly but failed to impress later, whereas Pianist 1 was getting better and better.

From the mathematical point of view, these three are equal. From the Jury point of view, in their eyes, the situation is completly different.

Maybe they felt this might be the case?
Posted By: pianoloverus Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/31/10 03:44 PM
Originally Posted by signa
it makes no sense of changing rules in the middle of competition, unless they wanted ranking the winners differently after 3 stages showing the obvious leaders. it's my speculation, but everyone would ask the same question with regard to such a rule change.
I don't think it's a good to change the rules after the competition begins, but I think the assumption that this was done to penalize Bozhanov or anyone else in wrong.

If those competitors were so highly ranked through all the rounds except the last one, why would the same people who gave those competitors high marks now decide they should be penalized?
Posted By: pianoloverus Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/31/10 03:49 PM
Originally Posted by Mati
Yes, signa, I agree.

I had one scenario in mind, but for it to be true we would have to be sure that originally the points were to be summarized without any weights (I mean, stage1+stage2+stage3+stage4).

Let's say, we have three pianists.

Pianist 1: 70 + 80 + 90 + 100 = 340
Pianist 2: 100 + 90 + 80 + 70 = 340
Pisnist 3: 85 + 85 + 85 + 85 = 340

All of them sum up to 340, but their performance in the competition is completely different. One of them is good and consistent throughout, another one started spectacularly but failed to impress later, whereas Pianist 1 was getting better and better.

From the mathematical point of view, these three are equal. From the Jury point of view, in their eyes, the situation is completly different.

Maybe they felt this might be the case?
Anything is possible, but there are also so many other possible scenarios for the order of scores that it's all specualtion. And the jury point of view could be just as varied as he possible order/numerical possibilities of scores adding up to 340. I don't think it's obvious which of your three scoring results is "better".
Posted By: pno Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/31/10 03:50 PM
...and which is OKay. They are the jury. If they think certain competitor(s) did not deserve to be placed at certain ranking and the system gave the 'wrong' result, it is totally legitimate for them to 'correct' the system, as long as the jury themselves agreed to it. Afterall, it is an opinion based competition. There is no clear and definite criteria. It is all up to the judges.
Posted By: ConcertEtudes Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/31/10 04:15 PM
The rules did not change after the final round. The jury could use whatever method they liked to decide the final rankings, according to Article XXII below (the point system is just a "basis", or a part of the information they could use to make the final rankings)

XXII

After all the necessary calculations have been made, the Secretary of the Jury will present to a sitting of the Jury the values of the final results achieved by the competitors in the final, in the form of the sums of the arithmetic means of the points obtained in all four stages of the Competition, ordered from the highest to the lowest; but without the competitors' names. On this basis, the Jury will decide on the awarding of the various prizes. (emphasis is my own)

The rule did not state how the Jury will decide the final rankings, so the Jury could use whatever method they chose.
Posted By: izaldu Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/31/10 05:10 PM
Originally Posted by pno
Originally Posted by izaldu
FuTsong should be banned from being mmember of the jury ever again.
...


Can you explain why? Legitimate reason I mean. Not something like 'I don't like that result'.


Well he never told the jury he was teaching Adveeva ... or did i misread?
Posted By: signa Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/31/10 05:22 PM
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by signa
it makes no sense of changing rules in the middle of competition, unless they wanted ranking the winners differently after 3 stages showing the obvious leaders. it's my speculation, but everyone would ask the same question with regard to such a rule change.
I don't think it's a good to change the rules after the competition begins, but I think the assumption that this was done to penalize Bozhanov or anyone else in wrong.

If those competitors were so highly ranked through all the rounds except the last one, why would the same people who gave those competitors high marks now decide they should be penalized?

it doesn't make sense, does it? and you're as the same as me to speculate what the jury was thinking. but the chairman of the jury said (as Mati quoted many pages back), without changing the rule, some competitors will be scored much higher even if they play the concerto 'horribly' (i'm lazy to find the exact quote, but it's exactly what he meant). he certainly meant Bozhanov on this however, even though i wouldn't say Bozhanov played concerto that 'horribly'.
Posted By: pno Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/31/10 05:45 PM
Originally Posted by izaldu
Originally Posted by pno
Originally Posted by izaldu
FuTsong should be banned from being mmember of the jury ever again.
...


Can you explain why? Legitimate reason I mean. Not something like 'I don't like that result'.


Well he never told the jury he was teaching Adveeva ... or did i misread?


Did you read the links I posted above? He had 5 masterclasses with her (and with a few other competitors) in Lake Como piano academy. No private lesson. That is not 'student' by the definition. In fact, Fou had explicitly asked the Chair of the jury, Jasiński, before the competition on these particular cases and got clearance on it. No rule is violated.

Narodowy Instytut Fryderyka Chopina has posted the official response to this incident on facebook, their official forum.

People should stop spreading rumour/hearsay taken from anonymous forums as if they were truth. Rumours and hearsays can quickly morph into different forms and shapes and self-propagate on the internet. It is not fair to the people involved. And there are people who are trying to take advantage of these to push their own hidden agenda.
Posted By: pno Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/31/10 06:11 PM
Just want to clarify I am not saying there are people here in PW forum trying to push their hidden agenda. Don't get me wrong.
Posted By: stores Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/31/10 06:40 PM
If we're only talking about masterclasses then there's nothing to talk about.
Posted By: pianoloverus Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/31/10 09:29 PM
Originally Posted by pno

Did you read the links I posted above? He had 5 masterclasses with her (and with a few other competitors) in Lake Como piano academy. No private lesson. That is not 'student' by the definition. In fact, Fou had explicitly asked the Chair of the jury, Jasiński, before the competition on these particular cases and got clearance on it. No rule is violated.
If this is accurate, then I think it shows how damaging and inappropriate speculation on the internet can be. I think it's also unfortunate if Fou Tsong really used the phrase "my student" when referring to Avdeeva. A more careful choice of words might have avoided a lot of problems.
Posted By: jazzyprof Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/31/10 10:39 PM
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
I think it's also unfortunate if Fou Tsong really used the phrase "my student" when referring to Avdeeva. A more careful choice of words might have avoided a lot of problems.

Of course calling her "my student" allows some of Avdeeva's glory to rub off on Tsong...as in "I taught her everything she knows."
Posted By: BB Player Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/31/10 10:47 PM
Originally Posted by jazzyprof

Of course calling her "my student" allows some of Avdeeva's glory to rub off on Tsong...as in "I taught her everything she knows."

Exactly. Along with "my spiritual heir" etc. I bet if she hadn't made it past the first round the interview might have been a bit different.
Posted By: stores Re: International Chopin Competition - 10/31/10 11:52 PM
Originally Posted by BB Player
Originally Posted by jazzyprof

Of course calling her "my student" allows some of Avdeeva's glory to rub off on Tsong...as in "I taught her everything she knows."

Exactly. Along with "my spiritual heir" etc. I bet if she hadn't made it past the first round the interview might have been a bit different.


I'm sure you're right. Spiritual heir my a$$...give me a break it's Fou Tsong hahaha.
Posted By: Andromaque Re: International Chopin Competition - 11/01/10 12:44 AM
I hate to admit it but I never heard of Fou Tsong before this competition.. How well known/recognized is he as a performer and/or teacher?
Posted By: pno Re: International Chopin Competition - 11/01/10 02:27 AM
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by pno

Did you read the links I posted above? He had 5 masterclasses with her (and with a few other competitors) in Lake Como piano academy. No private lesson. That is not 'student' by the definition. In fact, Fou had explicitly asked the Chair of the jury, Jasiński, before the competition on these particular cases and got clearance on it. No rule is violated.
If this is accurate, then I think it shows how damaging and inappropriate speculation on the internet can be. I think it's also unfortunate if Fou Tsong really used the phrase "my student" when referring to Avdeeva. A more careful choice of words might have avoided a lot of problems.


I did not see the word "student" used by Fou himself in the original article. The reporter added the word. The reporter probably didn't check the "legal definition" of the word before using it.

If one can read the original article Fou was actually quite humble in describing himself. He said: "My father told me, first be a human, then an artist, then a musician, finally a pianist. Avdeeva has all four. I am missing the pianist."
Posted By: Elene Re: International Chopin Competition - 11/01/10 02:39 AM
I'm afraid I don't understand much about the competition results except for these two quotes from the posts above:

"art can't be measured"

and

"it is an opinion based competition."

Both good to keep in mind.

Elene
Posted By: izaldu Re: International Chopin Competition - 11/01/10 07:31 AM
Sorry i did miss the liks, pno.

Posted By: Scherze Re: International Chopin Competition - 11/01/10 06:46 PM
Originally Posted by ConcertEtudes
The rules did not change after the final round. The jury could use whatever method they liked to decide the final rankings, according to Article XXII below (the point system is just a "basis", or a part of the information they could use to make the final rankings)

XXII

After all the necessary calculations have been made, the Secretary of the Jury will present to a sitting of the Jury the values of the final results achieved by the competitors in the final, in the form of the sums of the arithmetic means of the points obtained in all four stages of the Competition, ordered from the highest to the lowest; but without the competitors' names. On this basis, the Jury will decide on the awarding of the various prizes. (emphasis is my own)

The rule did not state how the Jury will decide the final rankings, so the Jury could use whatever method they chose.


But they didn't even calculate the scores for the final round, as it says they should do in the Rules, or at least they didn't publish it.

If they had done that, averaged everything, then decided to award some prizes ex aequo, which they have done in the past, that matches the Rules much better.

Another thing, Kultyshev and Khozyainov were also considerably ahead of Dumont before finals, and Kultyshev performed well in the concerto, and got a 6.3 even with the new method, so I don't know why he didn't win a sixth prize either.
Posted By: Scherze Re: International Chopin Competition - 11/01/10 06:59 PM
Actually Kultyshev got 6.38 with the new system.
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 11/01/10 07:11 PM
I didn't think Kultyshev, Khozyainov, and Dumont played well in the concerto round. But I think Dumont was technically cleaner than the other 2.

About T'song, I still cannot imagine why he went out to say he taught Avdeeva over the last 2.5 years if she only attended 5 masterclasses. And if she was just another student out of several hundred students that were in his masterclasses over the last 2.5 years, why he even threatened the organization of withdrawing from jury if Avdeeva wasn't allowed to compete? He said "In March, I was still a little worry.....". The live audition was in April. She did not pass the live audition. So he didn't think she was good enough, but he forced the organization to admit her to the competition?
A short rehearsal video was posted a few hours ago on YouTube. "Alan Gilbert and the New York Philharmonic rehearse Chopin's Piano Concerto in E minor with Yulianna Avdeeva, the winner of the 16th International Frédéric Chopin Competition".

YouTube - NYPhilharmonic and the winner of this year's Chopin competition
Re some points of contention. Right HERE, at this forum, at this page: Harasiewicz Said -- a translation of an interview given by juror Harasiewicz was described in the excerpts below:

===
"- he admitted that if the rules of competition were left without change the result would be completely different but he 'don’t know which pianist could make a profit from it.’

He added also that some jury members thought that ‘rules without change could rank some pianists too high even if they played final Concerto horribly’ (he pointed Bozhanov)

"- there was no discussion in the final voting, each jury member just presented his final ranking without explanation ‘why’. He also mentioned that maybe if he was allowed to vote on Wunder the arithmetic result would rank the Austrian on the first place

"- he said that Khozyainov was too immature and too sentimental for him
. . .
"- he accused the jury member who voted against Wunder’s appearance in the final of ‘lack of competence’ and he stated that it’s maybe kind of ‘specific asian taste’ (he didin’t say even Koyama’s name, but [sic] only ‘the Japanese jury member’) "

==========
As for Fou Ts'ong's wording, a lot was paraphrased in the *translated* article, but it's clear that the statement reported was that he had *STARTED* teaching Avdeeva 2-1/2 years ago, but 95% of the forum talkers on the Net substituted the thought "taught FOR 2-1/2 years" instead. And that latter was never said.

That he HEARD her within the last year never meant he was teaching her as a private student when he heard her, but in that school, people seem to know what the rounds are like.

It was apparently 2-1/2 years ago that she entered Como where each student must do the rounds of the 10 or so teachers there (Fou Ts'ong being one of them), going to each and every one, and then it starts again. They say it's a masterclass style setting.

Fou Ts'ong had asked the head of the jury whether he should declare her a Student under the Competition rules and was told no, that the situation didn't fit the rules for counting a contestent a student. He had two others who had been in Como and saw him, who were in the Competition, someone else said, but they didn't make it too far up the levels.

- Andrys
(a Bozhanov enthusiast)
if they didn't change the rule regarding ranking the finalists, the result will be different for sure. changing the rule in the middle of the competition, or in any competition for that matter, is just not playing fair. it must be the main reason which made this competition so controversial and make many wonder what would have been, and less respect for this particular competition.

what i really want to know is when Bozhanov is coming to US? i would want to hear him playing live again.
Posted By: pno Re: International Chopin Competition - 11/06/10 05:36 AM
found a 1955 competition movie, with Harasiewicz, Ashkenazy and Fou. They look so different now.

Posted By: Lingyis Re: International Chopin Competition - 11/06/10 08:12 AM
i read the posting on facebook and i can concur with previous posters who said it's "5 masterclasses in 2.5 years" as opposed to "having taught her for 2.5 years". fuh said "he's amazed by her progress every time he meets her".

the original report:

http://news.chinatimes.com/reading/0,5251,51301678x112010102800415,00.html

it's a pretty poorly worded article. i can see why "for 2.5 years" would show up in a translation, because this was said:

"fuh started teaching aveeda 2.5 years ago"

oh well. in my experience reading chinese, hong kong and taiwanese reports, precision of the reports is frequently lost. sometimes, the accuracy is so bad i wonder if they just make things up. in translated pieces from say AP or Reuters, there are often inaccuracies. i didn't quite understand why until my uncle actually started translating articles into chinese for a newspaper and had to frequently ask me what things mean.

either way, kind of like the obama $200 million a day trip to india claim. or many instances of journalists taking some random guy's tweet and running with it. professionalism has been lost for the sake of immediacy in this age of internet news reporting. which is in no way a bad thing, it's just that the reader has to do a bit of the filtering journalists used to do.
Posted By: BruceD Re: International Chopin Competition - 11/19/10 11:42 PM
I'm reviving this old thread to share the following :

A friend of mine and her husband spent several days at the International Chopin Competition this year, and have returned with the following gift for me from the competition :

Two CDs from Stage 2, featuring performances of Avdeeva (Russia), Koziak (Poland), Wunder (Austria), Tyson (US).
Two CDs from Stage 3, featuring performances of Bozhanov (Bulgaria), Gillham (Australia), Armellini (Italy), Wakarecy (Poland)

and four issues of Chopin Express from October 13, 14, 15, and 17.

Interesting reading and listening ahead.

Regards,
Posted By: BB Player Re: International Chopin Competition - 11/19/10 11:53 PM
Wow! Lucky you!
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: International Chopin Competition - 11/20/10 04:54 AM
VERY LUCKY!!! smile
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