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ABRSM 2011-2012 Piano on Youtube: Video + Tutorial

Posted By: alanchan1024

ABRSM 2011-2012 Piano on Youtube: Video + Tutorial - 07/18/10 10:30 PM

Hi All,

This may be useful for people looking to study for the new ABRSM 2011-2012 piano syallbus.

Pieces will gradually be added and will include all pieces from the ABRSM book (No.1 to 3 from each list)

2011-2012 Scales
Grade 1 to 5
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=82B4ED121F8F99D3
Grade 6 to 7
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=B17FB737BE9D3C80

2011-2012 Pieces (demo performance and tutorial)
Grade 1
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=EA8D704B8441954D
Grade 2
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=64E0FE47FA591792
Grade 3
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=D7DD10A2AC950B11
Grade 4
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=5AF25907EDDBFCA9
Grade 5
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=BA516FD389619D3D
Grade 6
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=AB18EFE9EA72B5AB
Grade 7
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=E2FD014EAEEB7E0A
Grade 8
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=80AA18C63B1CE335

Alan Chan
Posted By: Samuel Laferriere

Re: ABRSM 2011-2012 Piano on Youtube: Video + Tutorial - 07/19/10 01:49 PM

Thank you, I think its a great idea!
Posted By: theJourney

Re: ABRSM 2011-2012 Piano on Youtube: Video + Tutorial - 07/19/10 02:18 PM

So, what happened to your Grade 8 videos?
Posted By: alanchan1024

Re: ABRSM 2011-2012 Piano on Youtube: Video + Tutorial - 07/22/10 12:29 PM

I haven't had time to start practicing the Grade 8 pieces yet.
Posted By: BruceD

Re: ABRSM 2011-2012 Piano on Youtube: Video + Tutorial - 07/22/10 05:33 PM

Not to downplay the work that Mr. Chan is doing, but the other side of this coin - and Mr. Chan is not alone in this trend [1] - is that posting videos/audio files of examination pieces "deprives" the student of working out for him/herself what the piece should sound like.

I know that some teachers do this, too; they play works for students to help them decide what to play or worse, what a piece "should" sound like.

It seems to me, however, that this approach takes away a lot - maybe too much - from the learning process. Yes, it's much easier to just press a button and hear how a piece "is supposed to sound" but that, to me, takes away not only from the joy of discovery but also from the real learning process of reading music.

Doesn't this approach discourage a student from reading clues in a score, such as tempo indications and dynamics? What happens to the student who is fed so much of this pre-recorded material that s/he cannot properly read an unknwon score, but has to have an example played to understand what is already given in the score?

It seems to me that this approach feeds too much into the need for instant satisfaction, but it also does dull the learning process considerably and may not, therefore, be the pedagogical tool that some might think it is.

[1] RCM, Toronto, currently issues some of its examination repertoire scores with CDs.

Regards,
Posted By: Kreisler

Re: ABRSM 2011-2012 Piano on Youtube: Video + Tutorial - 07/22/10 06:45 PM

I'd like them more if the performances were better. Students should be exposed to high-quality, artistic performances. I can't imagine many of these performances receiving top marks.

This for example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBevTytAL5Q

It's an interesting project, and one that could be very useful. Suzuki had great success in encouraging students to listen to performances by great artists as part of the learning process. But I think the producers of the series could aim higher where the artistry is concerned. Hire an official examiner to do the tutorials, or, better still, have someone like Stephen Hough or Murray Perahia demonstrate just how wonderful a Kuhlau Sonatina could sound, and you'd really have something special! (I often wish concert artists, college faculty, and independent teachers took more of an interest in each other.)
Posted By: Ejay

Re: ABRSM 2011-2012 Piano on Youtube: Video + Tutorial - 07/22/10 08:20 PM

ABRSM also sell cd recordings of their examination pieces.
I also wonder what the OP means on his video comments regarding not having all the sheets and asking people if they can help. Does this mean he has not actually purchased the books containing the music ?
Posted By: theJourney

Re: ABRSM 2011-2012 Piano on Youtube: Video + Tutorial - 07/22/10 09:33 PM

Indeed. The standard of the ABRSM CDs and downloadable files is quite high indeed producing reference recordings with successful artists such as Joanna MacGregor, Pier Lane, Melvyn Tan, etc.

http://abrsmpublishing.dloadshop.com/index.asp?a=6

There are already lots of terrible videos on youtube of bad performances of unpolished renditions of the exam pieces, so the more the merrier. Hopefully not too many kids will be copying what they see on youtube but will be learning to play properly from a good teacher.
Posted By: alanchan1024

Re: ABRSM 2011-2012 Piano on Youtube: Video + Tutorial - 07/29/10 12:54 PM

It should be a reasonable expection that a youtube video won't have the same quality as the publisher's CD. Also, my videos were recorded live without edition.
It should also be a reasonable expectation that youtube is a platform for "everyone" putting their videos. As a student, one can always learn from a particuar performance (whether good or bad). And I don't believe there is any "harm" to watch any bad performance (as you already knew it was bad, so you would not copy it). After all, I don't believe any of my videos belong to this "bad performance" category. They are not perfect, nor high-quality / artistic; but I am sure, if you were a piano teacher, you would be reasonably satisfied if your average students play like that, unless you are selective and only take in the very talented students. Please be fair.
Posted By: Phlebas

Re: ABRSM 2011-2012 Piano on Youtube: Video + Tutorial - 07/30/10 11:00 AM

Originally Posted by Kreisler
I'd like them more if the performances were better. Students should be exposed to high-quality, artistic performances. I can't imagine many of these performances receiving top marks.

This for example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBevTytAL5Q

It's an interesting project, and one that could be very useful. Suzuki had great success in encouraging students to listen to performances by great artists as part of the learning process. But I think the producers of the series could aim higher where the artistry is concerned. Hire an official examiner to do the tutorials, or, better still, have someone like Stephen Hough or Murray Perahia demonstrate just how wonderful a Kuhlau Sonatina could sound, and you'd really have something special! (I often wish concert artists, college faculty, and independent teachers took more of an interest in each other.)


I agree. I could imagine teachers telling students "don't make the staccatos so clipped," or "don't drop your wrist on every note," - for example - and the student saying, "but that's how it is on the video."

I think the performances should be as well thought out, and polished as possible for every piece, otherwise don't bother. Post a midi recording.

Having concert artists demonstrate is a good idea.
Posted By: Elissa Milne

Re: ABRSM 2011-2012 Piano on Youtube: Video + Tutorial - 08/01/10 01:33 AM

I'm not sure that a student has anything at all to gain by watching performances that would not receive a distinction mark in an exam.

The standard of the performances in ABRSM recordings is excellent, with exceptional pianists participating in the process.
Posted By: BruceD

Re: ABRSM 2011-2012 Piano on Youtube: Video + Tutorial - 08/01/10 05:30 AM

Originally Posted by Elissa Milne
[...]
The standard of the performances in ABRSM recordings is excellent, with exceptional pianists participating in the process.


To come back to my original question : Why do students need demonstration recordings of examination pieces at all?

Regards,
Posted By: alanchan1024

Re: ABRSM 2011-2012 Piano on Youtube: Video + Tutorial - 08/01/10 11:54 AM

Originally Posted by BruceD

To come back to my original question : Why do students need demonstration recordings of examination pieces at all?
Regards,

There are a lot of self-taught people, for whatever reason not having a teacher. Listening to demo recordings is one of their ways to get familiar with the music. The definition of "usefulness" is subjective. I am sure there are a number of people finding the listening to be useful to them. Actually, for self-taught people, listening to anything better then how they currently play would be "useful". It gives an extra piece of information to them (bearing in mind they do not have to copy what they listened). A piece of information is knowledge; and I am sure it is a positive thing.
Posted By: stores

Re: ABRSM 2011-2012 Piano on Youtube: Video + Tutorial - 08/01/10 11:57 AM

Originally Posted by BruceD
Originally Posted by Elissa Milne
[...]
The standard of the performances in ABRSM recordings is excellent, with exceptional pianists participating in the process.


To come back to my original question : Why do students need demonstration recordings of examination pieces at all?

Regards,


I agree with you, Bruce, and thought your original post regarding this was very good. The entire idea is in opposition to what actual learning is all about. Instead of having students discover on their own and make their own determinations they're given a pattern to trace and copy. Just one more reason (among so many) that we don't hear more successful students than we do.
Posted By: stores

Re: ABRSM 2011-2012 Piano on Youtube: Video + Tutorial - 08/01/10 11:59 AM

Originally Posted by alanchan1024
Originally Posted by BruceD

To come back to my original question : Why do students need demonstration recordings of examination pieces at all?
Regards,

There are a lot of self-taught people, for whatever reason not having a teacher. Listening to demo recordings is one of their ways to get familiar with the music. The definition of "usefulness" is subjective. I am sure there are a number of people finding the listening to be useful to them. Actually, for self-taught people, listening to anything better then how they currently play would be "useful". It gives an extra piece of information to them (bearing in mind they do not have to copy what they listened). A piece of information is knowledge; and I am sure it is a positive thing.


If someone feels confident enough in their abilities to "teach" themselves, then they should be able to figure out "how it goes" on their own, yes? I'm sorry, but that's just another strike against the "I don't need a teacher" mindset I hear more and more.
Posted By: Elissa Milne

Re: ABRSM 2011-2012 Piano on Youtube: Video + Tutorial - 08/01/10 02:52 PM

Originally Posted by stores
Originally Posted by BruceD
Originally Posted by Elissa Milne
[...]
The standard of the performances in ABRSM recordings is excellent, with exceptional pianists participating in the process.


To come back to my original question : Why do students need demonstration recordings of examination pieces at all?

Regards,


I agree with you, Bruce, and thought your original post regarding this was very good. The entire idea is in opposition to what actual learning is all about. Instead of having students discover on their own and make their own determinations they're given a pattern to trace and copy. Just one more reason (among so many) that we don't hear more successful students than we do.
Ah, well, that is an excellent question: "why do students need demonstration recordings of examination pieces at all?"

I don't think that students do need demonstration recordings as a rule, but I can think of [limited] circumstances where it could be an interesting/useful/beneficial exercise to hear a good performance.

I can't think of any circumstances where it could be an interesting/useful/beneficial exercise to hear a recorded performance (of a piece the student was preparing for their own exam) that was less than excellent.
Posted By: Elissa Milne

Re: ABRSM 2011-2012 Piano on Youtube: Video + Tutorial - 08/01/10 02:58 PM

My understanding is that one beneficial aspect of the ABRSM recordings is that teachers have an opportunity to hear music for which they may not have the score - and this can encourage exploration of the options listed which are NOT in the published ABRSM grade book.

Teachers who are uncertain of performance aspects of various pieces can also be guided by these ABRSM-authorised performances. Which as far as I can see, stores, does nothing to diminish the validity of your well-made points above.

And which also adds to the importance of such teachers getting good input from these recordings.
Posted By: DadAgain

Re: ABRSM 2011-2012 Piano on Youtube: Video + Tutorial - 08/02/10 01:04 AM

Originally Posted by Elissa Milne
I can't think of any circumstances where it could be an interesting/useful/beneficial exercise to hear a recorded performance (of a piece the student was preparing for their own exam) that was less than excellent.


I'm not sure I can agree with this. Its perfectly possible to demonstrate one aspect of nuance without offering a completely polished performance. I can talk about phrasing and rubato for example and demonstrate that without necessarily being able to play something note-perfect.

Theres plenty of markings on any score that can be interpretted or implemented in slightly different ways and surely only by hearing a variety of different ways (and perhaps trying them out for themselves) will a student be able to reach their own conclusions about how they want to play something.

Any recording may not be perfect - but it might still have something different that causes the student to consider how they play. How can this be a bad thing?
Posted By: stores

Re: ABRSM 2011-2012 Piano on Youtube: Video + Tutorial - 08/02/10 02:05 AM

Originally Posted by DadAgain
Originally Posted by Elissa Milne
I can't think of any circumstances where it could be an interesting/useful/beneficial exercise to hear a recorded performance (of a piece the student was preparing for their own exam) that was less than excellent.


I'm not sure I can agree with this. Its perfectly possible to demonstrate one aspect of nuance without offering a completely polished performance. I can talk about phrasing and rubato for example and demonstrate that without necessarily being able to play something note-perfect.

Theres plenty of markings on any score that can be interpretted or implemented in slightly different ways and surely only by hearing a variety of different ways (and perhaps trying them out for themselves) will a student be able to reach their own conclusions about how they want to play something.

Any recording may not be perfect - but it might still have something different that causes the student to consider how they play. How can this be a bad thing?


Clearly, you've not listened to some of the, shall we say, "hmmmm, ok then" performances listed above. If a recording is to be used as a teaching tool then, by all means, it should be top notch and not something put together by someone not quite the same caliber as many of the students who will be watching.
Posted By: DadAgain

Re: ABRSM 2011-2012 Piano on Youtube: Video + Tutorial - 08/02/10 03:22 AM

Originally Posted by stores
Clearly, you've not listened to some of the, shall we say, "hmmmm, ok then" performances listed above.


Ok - so I'd only listened to some of the early grade stuff - which was merely unremarkable. I've now gone and listened to some of the later stuff and still dont think the OP deserves quite such a torrent of abuse.

I still maintain that even if a performance isnt 'excellent' it can still be an effective demonstration of *something* (even if its an example of how a piece can be destroyed by lack of rhythmic flow, or how mechanical playing can be bland and dull without some injection of dynamic contrast and phrasing etc etc).


We've all seen road safety adverts of the "slow down and pay attention or *THIS* happens <insert grevious crash scene>" genre - Why cant musicians use the same technique to get a message across? i.e. "This is what you'll sound like if you dont do xxx"
Posted By: Elissa Milne

Re: ABRSM 2011-2012 Piano on Youtube: Video + Tutorial - 08/02/10 04:53 AM

DadAgain, I don't think this thread contains anything like a torrent of abuse. I think a very polite response has been made cautioning students from using inappropriate materials.

A student at Grade One standard would need some serious guidance to gain anything from a performance that was of a bare pass standard. Students don't know what they don't know, so it's very hard for them to ascertain what they are supposed to be learning from a performance that is really borderline. Much more useful, by far, to observe a performance which achieves the kind of results the examiners will be looking for in the exam room.

Even when one demonstrates nuance one must be able to do so in a way that will elicit a better performance from a student, not a more complacent one.
Posted By: stores

Re: ABRSM 2011-2012 Piano on Youtube: Video + Tutorial - 08/02/10 08:05 AM

Originally Posted by DadAgain
Originally Posted by stores
Clearly, you've not listened to some of the, shall we say, "hmmmm, ok then" performances listed above.


Ok - so I'd only listened to some of the early grade stuff - which was merely unremarkable. I've now gone and listened to some of the later stuff and still dont think the OP deserves quite such a torrent of abuse.

I still maintain that even if a performance isnt 'excellent' it can still be an effective demonstration of *something* (even if its an example of how a piece can be destroyed by lack of rhythmic flow, or how mechanical playing can be bland and dull without some injection of dynamic contrast and phrasing etc etc).


We've all seen road safety adverts of the "slow down and pay attention or *THIS* happens <insert grevious crash scene>" genre - Why cant musicians use the same technique to get a message across? i.e. "This is what you'll sound like if you dont do xxx"


Why can't musicians use the same technique? Because that's not what this is supposed to be. Sure, show me any old Joe Blow that can barely make it through whatever he's playing and it's obvious to all that this is NOT how it should be done, but these videos are supposed to be representing ABRSM and quite frankly the playing sucks (that's still not a torrent). Your "something" just isn't there.
Posted By: alanchan1024

Re: ABRSM 2011-2012 Piano on Youtube: Video + Tutorial - 08/02/10 12:09 PM

The fact that it is not useful to some of you does not turn down a co-existing fact that it is useful to others. I don't know how to cook. If I want to learn cooking, I would be happy to be able to cook a number of dishes to a reasonable standard. Whether it is cooked to five-star hotel standard or not is not of my interest (as yet, or even for the rest of my life). From nothing to something, it is a good achievement. Of course to the five-star hotel cook, a "reasonable standard" = suck. On the other hand, a number of people would benifit from learning from nothing to that "reasonable standard".

And yes, if taught correctly, every one could achieve five star standard. But the fact is that not every one is going to bother with it in the first place.

Some people would set their (short term) goal to pass Grade 1. If my video does achieve a "bare pass standard", it would be a piece of useful information to them, and serving the purpose, to those particular people.
Posted By: stores

Re: ABRSM 2011-2012 Piano on Youtube: Video + Tutorial - 08/02/10 10:26 PM

Originally Posted by alanchan1024
The fact that it is not useful to some of you does not turn down a co-existing fact that it is useful to others. I don't know how to cook. If I want to learn cooking, I would be happy to be able to cook a number of dishes to a reasonable standard. Whether it is cooked to five-star hotel standard or not is not of my interest (as yet, or even for the rest of my life). From nothing to something, it is a good achievement. Of course to the five-star hotel cook, a "reasonable standard" = suck. On the other hand, a number of people would benifit from learning from nothing to that "reasonable standard".

And yes, if taught correctly, every one could achieve five star standard. But the fact is that not every one is going to bother with it in the first place.

Some people would set their (short term) goal to pass Grade 1. If my video does achieve a "bare pass standard", it would be a piece of useful information to them, and serving the purpose, to those particular people.


Are you a teacher as well? Your attitude that "ah well, everyone COULD, but they won't so why bother", is to me fairly incredible considering you supposedly represent ABRSM. Should not your attitude be one that says "Yes, everyone CAN achieve such-and-such a level and it's our duty as teachers to give our students the absolute best we possibly can in order to help them achieve whatever level it is that they're striving to achieve?
The fact that you compare picking up a few recipes as a comparison says all I need to know.
Posted By: alanchan1024

Re: ABRSM 2011-2012 Piano on Youtube: Video + Tutorial - 08/02/10 11:29 PM

It is interesting to see such a diverse response from that I got in the ABRSM forum.
Posted By: stores

Re: ABRSM 2011-2012 Piano on Youtube: Video + Tutorial - 08/02/10 11:39 PM

Originally Posted by alanchan1024
It is interesting to see such a diverse response from that I got in the ABRSM forum.


How so? I'm curious.
Posted By: Elissa Milne

Re: ABRSM 2011-2012 Piano on Youtube: Video + Tutorial - 08/04/10 09:59 AM

Oh my God, Alan Chan, you are playing from photocopies on top of anything else. You couldn't even be bothered accessing the music legally?!
Posted By: alanchan1024

Re: ABRSM 2011-2012 Piano on Youtube: Video + Tutorial - 08/04/10 03:28 PM

Originally Posted by Elissa Milne
Oh my God, Alan Chan, you are playing from photocopies on top of anything else. You couldn't even be bothered accessing the music legally?!

PM me your postal address and I will mail you a copy of my invoice from boosey.com
Posted By: Elissa Milne

Re: ABRSM 2011-2012 Piano on Youtube: Video + Tutorial - 08/04/10 10:33 PM

It's none of my business to see your invoices, and I'm more than happy to take your word for the fact that you've purchased all the music.

Let me phrase this in a more positive way: it sends a bad message when you show yourself playing from photocopies (and that message is that it is appropriate to learn from photocopies), and when you then include a note on your videos asking for people to send you the music it leaves the impression that you have not purchased the music and don't intend to.

These might be things to consider when making the next video so as to create a better impression.
Posted By: stores

Re: ABRSM 2011-2012 Piano on Youtube: Video + Tutorial - 08/04/10 10:37 PM

Originally Posted by Elissa Milne
It's none of my business to see your invoices, and I'm more than happy to take your word for the fact that you've purchased all the music.

Let me phrase this in a more positive way: it sends a bad message when you show yourself playing from photocopies (and that message is that it is appropriate to learn from photocopies), and when you then include a note on your videos asking for people to send you the music it leaves the impression that you have not purchased the music and don't intend to.

These might be things to consider when making the next video so as to create a better impression.


I noticed the photocopies myself, but didn't say anything, since I'd already taken him to task. I couldn't agree more with all that Elissa has said here.
Posted By: Canonie

Re: ABRSM 2011-2012 Piano on Youtube: Video + Tutorial - 08/04/10 10:39 PM

yes. Alan, I get the message "please send me the sheets to (email).." on every one of your videos - you can see this in the list without watching the videos. It is strange to see the official letters of ABRSM coupled with "send me sheets". Maybe you didn't realise that it shows on ALL the videos!
Posted By: BruceD

Re: ABRSM 2011-2012 Piano on Youtube: Video + Tutorial - 08/04/10 11:39 PM

I agree with the above posts by Elissa and stores.

It is certainly accepted practice to use photocopies for one's own, private use for a variety of reasons. I think that Mr. Chan has overlooked the fact that his "how to" videos should represent as ideal performances as possible under ideal conditions. It's possible - though not necessarily intentional on his part - that showing a performance read from photocopies might send the wrong messages.

Regards,
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