As a German, I was happily surprised that great tuners are available for a fair price in the U.S., generally a bit cheaper than what I was accustomed to in Germany. My German tuner who was quite good but didn't have a far-reaching reputation as a concert tuner, has been charging EUR 100 in the past two years. While that is still an acceptable price, I have found an outstanding tuner/technician in the U.S. that charges $100 and does splendid work, far superior to my German tuner in my view. Also, he tunes for professional pianists and services concert grands and has great experience in these areas. In general, I found technicians/tuners in the U.S. more creative and more responsive to player input. But that is only based on my narrow window of experience with only a handful of tuners/technicians in both countries. I don't want to suggest that this can serve as a generalization.

Anyway, while recently doing some research on German websites, I stumbled on a Pianohaus that, naturally, also offered tunings and service. They had the following two different price categories on their site:

a.) tuning of a Steinway piano and

b.) tuning of all other brands.

I don't remember the exact prices nor do I want to possibly malign a dealer that nobody on here knows anyway (me included). I just remember that tuning a Steinway commanded a surcharge of EUR 25 as opposed to tuning other brands. Is there some reason to this? I highly doubt that Steinways are harder to tune as they are high-quality pianos that usually satisfy technicians who work on them. Also, Steinways don't have more strings than other pianos. So, why the surcharge?
If I were the owner of a Steinway, I'd be wary to call these guys for a tuning.

I've heard of technicians that don't like tuning Steinway uprights (and may charge extra for that), but never have seen an "upcharge" for Steinway grands just because of the name. Why not a Boesendorfer upcharge, too?

If I had one, I'd sort of expect it.
(Really!)

P.S. I recently paid to have one tuned for a recording (the one below). I think he did charge a bit extra but I wasn't sure if it was because it was a Bosendorfer or because he thought I was stupid. Either way worked for me.

But seriously folks.....

I can see it depending on how much work and expertise and care are required in the job, and I can imagine it might tend to be more for a "higher" brand -- because it sort of "matters" more, being a more valuable instrument. If that's the justification for higher prices, I think it's not necessarily unreasonable.

I can imagine that sometimes a "lower" brand might be more difficult to bring into tune or to repair, because it's of lower quality -- and then that piano might cost more.

They may rationalize the upcharge in the assumed higher expectations of top tier piano owners and dispatch more experienced and more expensive tuners to these jobs.

I've never heard of this for a Steinway, but it wouldn't surprise me to hear of a surcharge for Bluethner, Borgato, or any piano with more than 88keys.

Well, then they must think that Steinway is the only top-tier piano. If I had a Bluethner or Fazioli, then I wouldn't have to pay the extra amount. Makes no sense to me.

Agreed.
But I wonder if they just don't see enough of those other pianos for them to be worth mentioning. I've seen thousands (literally thousands) of pianos in my lifetime and I've never come across a Fazioli except in a piano store, and never across a Bluethner at all anywhere.

MarkCannon,

Not that you have done anything wrong, but a requirement of posting on Piano World is that any "industry professional", past or present, identify themselves as such in their signature.

You appear to be a tuner, yet you do not mention that in your sig, and your profile indicates an different profession.

Are you an industry pro?

I'm not.
Sorry if my posts made it seem that I was.

I'm aware that my opinions on various things (and how I argue them) might sometimes make it seem as though I'm in one camp or another, but I'm usually not. I just have opinions.
My posts on this thread have been purely from the standpoint of a customer, involving a wide range of different types of pianos over the years; plus perhaps as someone who understands that some kinds of things in any given field may require more work and/or expertise than others.

Very sorry for the wrong appearance.

P.S. As I've mentioned a few times (but not loudly), I'm a psychiatrist and serious amateur pianist and piano lover.

P.S., btw, and for-what-it's-worth: I did used to know Larry Fine, but I assume that didn't necessarily need to be stated anywhere, and I mention it only as a curiosity.
In fact, I thought it would be "name dropping."

(And since it was 40 years ago, it probably is.)

Maybe it's the same reason an oil change on a Mercedes Benz is more expensive than on my Toyota yaris. It's the same process of dumping the old oil and adding the new oil but if I'm paying twice as much it stays in line with the prestige of owning a "superior" product. Seems like bs to me-especially considering that it's probably an easier and more straight forward job to tune a Steinway (or any high end piano) than it is to tune an old clunker.

Thanks for clearing that up.

No problem. BTW my first post on this thread (i.e. the second reply) pretty much indicated that I'm not a tuner, but I felt your question meant others might have gotten the same wrong idea and so I figured I'd better give that full answer.

I thought of that analogy too.

....and that as well.

Most technicians that I know, do not charge more to tune one piano verses another but, we do charge additional if it is a concert tuning. So what if it has some extra notes?

I find it odd that there would be a surcharge within the same service/shop.

Using the oil change analogy, if you go to a "quick" lube sort of place, you would expect the cost to be the same for a BMW as it would be for a Ford. If you go to a "high end" specialy shop, you would expect the prices to be higher, even for the Ford.

In just the last few days I have scheduled a tuning with an unfamiliar, though highly recommended, tuner. When I called to request a tuning, the first question was available dates. After that I asked about price and the tuner gave me a quote on her fee. It was only after those discussions did she ask about the piano. Though it is a S&S, the fee didn't change.

Surprisingly Insightful!

Simply stated.

And, True for everything, not just pianos.

Remember, this is in Germany. There are lots of German pianos around. Maybe the Italian Fazioli is a rarer sight, but quite a few people actually own Sauters, Schimmels and Seilers, Bluethners and Bechsteins...

I thought about this as well. This was the only tuner that I've ever encountered that has this sort of staggered pricing.

If I were the owner of a Hamburg S&S D grand and I were to call that tuner and schedule a tuning, I'd argue with him about paying me as the owner some money for being granted the privilege of working on a world-class grand.

I charge the same for any piano high-end, or low-end. The difference in work is hardly worth calculating. If there's extra work as in concert preparation, pitch raising or repairs I charge according to that extra work which can be substantial.

"If there's extra work as in concert preparation, pitch raising or repairs I charge according to that extra work which can be substantial."

This is just what my tech does. The base rate for a visit is a bit higher than SeilerFan's guy, but he allows time to keep up the other maintenance tasks as we go along. Once in awhile, a longer appointment is needed and that costs more money.

His business policy is to post his rates on his web page, and they're also printed on the invoice forms.

Thanks for that, and yes, true for everything.

I was speaking very much by analogy from fields closer to my own .....and made it seem to some that I might be a piano technician myself!!!

You never know.

I forgot.

Even though I was born there.

What, exactly, is a "concert tuning." I've heard this term used several times, but was never really sure what it meant.

Does it simply refer to the tuning of a piano to be used in a concert, or is it actually a different/more thorough method of tuning?

As an amateur but serious occasional performer, I can tell you what it means to me.
A couple of things.

First of all, yes indeed, a better tuning. I would imagine that for usual tunings, for most people including serious players, the "best possible" tuning would generally take longer than it's worth our paying for. I'm sure there's a "diminishing returns" factor after the first hour or hour and a half or whatever, but for a performance, you want it top-level.

And secondly, to me it means getting the tuning even when the piano doesn't "need" it. "Tune this piano?? Why? It's fine!!!" Well, there's a performance coming up.

Maybe an analogy: You got a haircut a couple of weeks ago, but now you're going to be on TV so you get a touch-up.
And you'll want this haircut maybe to be a little more "just-so" than your usual ones.

That's pretty much it Mark, thanks. The best possible tuning usually, given only on the best concert grands. The inexpensive spinets, consoles and many other brands were not built to be able to put a concert tuning on them so, we give these, the best tuning they can get (within reason) but, it is nowhere near a concert level tuning which more often than not, takes twice as long as a regular tuning and is twice as much work therefore, the additional fee.

Not to mention making sure everything else is working correctly in the action. No squeaks... Pedals are adjusted correctly. No bobbling hammers, sticking keys, damper issues and the list goes on and on...

I usually figure 2 hours for a concert tuning. Sometimes depending on when the piano was last tuned and by whom, 3 hours or so. Many times if I tuned it yesterday, I'm done in half that time or less, depending on how hard it was played and for how long the night before. That leaves me with 1 hour to double check regulation and other things before the next performance.

From what I read on George Kolasis' website, because Faziolis are so complicated (for lack of a better word) and well made, it makes them harder to tune.

The hardest pianos to tune are generally the electric pianos. I have a Helpinstill to tune tomorrow, and I have tuned Yamahas (CP60, 70, 80). They do not have as many strings, so that can balance things out.

Then come spinets and other poorly scaled pianos, which can be all shapes and sizes. Also pianos with flaws that distort the sound of some of the strings. A lay person may not notice the things that make these pianos difficult to tune, particularly if they are well tuned.

Blüthners take longer because they have a lot more strings. There was nothing special about the Fazioli I tuned.

Being an analytical type I would add a further consideration, which might seem like nothing (and I don't even know if it gets taken into account) but it seems meaningful:

It takes a special tuner (hopefully) to do a concert tuning, and stuff that takes a special tuner is entitled to a higher rate, even if it didn't take extra time.

I'm aware of this kind of consideration in my own work (psychiatry). Some kinds of work within the field are more specialized than others. The kinds of work that 'they don't really need me for' are generally at a lesser rate, and conversely. I think "special" tuners usually charge somewhat more than the routine rate even for routine kinds of work, but I think it would be justified for them to charge at a significantly higher rate (per unit time) for work that "only they" can do.

Whether this does or doesn't occur, or whether the market would bear it, I don't know. I'm talking just theoretically.

Those of us who do concert level tuning as often as we can do not need so much time to tune for concerts. My own feeling is that if you spend a lot of extra time on any tuning, it is because it is not going as well. However, concert tuning often takes extra time just sitting around waiting for things like sound checks to finish.

Good point Mark. A friend of mine owns a snow plowing business. He recently told me this story.

Last year, he was severely undercut by his competition to the tune of about half of what he charges. 3 things happened because of this.

1. After several times of the competition not showing up to snow plow as promised, my friend was called back to take over the job.

2. He refused it because he was so busy. He had already filled up that slot and could not take on any more work. He told them however, to call him this year in advance if they were still interested. They did, and he fit them in.

3. This same fellow did the same thing to another good client of his. It was a large account. This time, he walked into the place and said, look, what do you expect to get from this fellow for half the price? Maybe the same thing he did for so and so? I cannot afford to do this job for less than this amount. Not for the quality that I am used to giving you and the quality that you are used to receiving. I show up as expected, do more than what I am contracted for, stand behind my work, charge a fair price for quality work and yet, you expect me to cheapen my quality to match his price? FORGET IT!

After explaining it in that manner, he kept that account. My friend, despite the economy in Michigan, is so busy, he can barely keep up with everything.

Ethics goes a long way in every field.

BDB is right too. Waiting is sometimes half the battle.

Good examples too. BTW I hope we won't get accused of "going OT."
Sometimes you have to go a little off the topic to shed light on the topic.....