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Making this its own thread as my question about this in the other thread at the tech forum may have gotten buried. Japanese hammers tend to be hard, and the ones on my new Kawai are no exception. However, my piano has a very rounded and mellow sound. Not at all bright and harsh. Why is this so? I thought the harder the hammers, the brighter the sound. As far as I know, no voicing had been done on the hammers at the dealer.

Thanks.
Its possible it was voiced at the dealer. The tuner who did my first tuning was from the store where I bought it. He said he does most of the setups on new pianos. For pianos like mine that go out on the floor, he needles the hammers, especially in the upper registers, to take some of the zing out of the sound. Not sure if your store might have done the same thing or not.
I think the higher level Kawais probably are subject to some kind of key pounding machine at the factory, but I doubt thats done on entry level models like ours.
Thanks Mark. Based on the posts about hammers I've seen on PW, it seems it's all people can do to needle their hard Renner or Abel hammers often enough to keep them from getting too bright. Yet Kawais are known for their mellow tone despite hard hammers, and I for one have not had to chase them with any needling over the 2 years I've owned mine. The tone just seems to stay mellow on my piano, and is that way on most Kawai's I've played. I can't imagine all Kawai owners are constantly getting their hammers needled.

One local tech told me the mellow Kawai sound is due to the strike point on the strings instead of the hammers. Maybe that's it. In any event, Kawai's hard hammers seem to buck the trend of "hard hammers = bright tone."
Someone on here replaced the felt on their celeste with a thin piece of felt in order to change the hardness of their hammers without having to resort to needling. Since I have a rental piano, I’m going to try it with a thin piece of felt I buy from the Garment District and a curtain rod to hang the felt over the strings.
I have an 1984 Kawai (KL502 )which is very mellow.
Kawai does make Boston pianos which are very mellow
yet very different in tone to Kawai pianos.
In the 80's Kawai made pianos for Scheidmayor, an
important European piano maker. One technician has
mentioned that during that time some Kawai pianos
had a tone that sounded similar to Scheidmayor.
I would say Kawai really have worked it all out when it
comes to tone.Is it just the hammers,I do not know ?
With the GL series ,the GL10 is a mellow tone., some
slightly larger ones to me sound rather bright ,yet when
comparing the 5' 8"(not sure of the exact size ?)it then
was more to the mellow side again.
Thanks Lady Bird. I'm toying with the idea of acquiring an old KG3, and may need to replace its hammers. However, I don't want to lose that great Kawai mellow tone when I do. I know I can choose softer hammers, but since Kawai hammers are hard, I'm thinking I should look for a similar style of hammer like an Abel natural or something. Just hope I don't end up making the piano sound like some of the overly bright Yamahas I've tried!
Emery
You might want to post this question in the tech forum
Originally Posted by Emery Wang
Making this its own thread as my question about this in the other thread at the tech forum may have gotten buried. Japanese hammers tend to be hard, and the ones on my new Kawai are no exception. However, my piano has a very rounded and mellow sound. Not at all bright and harsh. Why is this so? I thought the harder the hammers, the brighter the sound. As far as I know, no voicing had been done on the hammers at the dealer.

Thanks.

Just another amateur guess but I will be corrected if wrong. I’ve read that if you take hard heavy hammers and then needle the surface in voicing it, actually results in a much warmer sound rather than taking soft hammers and then chemically making the surface harder to brighten the sound. Perhaps that explains the mellow voice.
KAWAI's hammer felts have a feature . soft exterior tight and rigid on the interior so not bright enough
Emery, How do you know your Kawai has "hard" hammers?
Originally Posted by chen
KAWAI's hammer felts have a feature . soft exterior tight and rigid on the interior so not bright enough

I see you are from Parsons Music. Regarding Ronisch pianos, I did not know you made any of these pianos? Is just parts for Ronisch or is it strung backs?
The same goes for Kawai .Which Kawai pianos do you make ? We would be interested if you could provide us with information.
Regards, LB
I am asking the above question because our local Kawai dealer in Richmond BC sells
Kawai and Ronisch pianos and it just seems coincidental that Kawai and Ronisch are
mentioned under Parsons.(in Chen's profile)
I thought Ronisch pianos are all totally made in Germany ?
Sorry Emery this is rather OT.
I am not sure if you are from Parsons or Kawai in China ?
1, We made KAWAI KU siries,and for sale in China.not for export your local kawai should be made in japan or indonesia
2, what models of Ronisch had you seen? About Ronisch ,i don't know much ,sorry
3 obviously ,I come from parsons music
I have not seen any Ronisch personally but the different models are on the website
of our local Kawai dealer.I presume if one were interested one would order a Ronisch
model from them.(I am not interested in buying another piano)
I do see on your profile that Ronisch pianos are mentioned under Parsons. Piano Buyer talks about
them being made in Germany.(Bluthner ) ?
Originally Posted by chen
1, We made KAWAI KU siries,and for sale in China.not for export your local kawai should be made in japan or indonesia
2, what models of Ronisch had you seen? About Ronisch ,i don't know much ,sorry
3 obviously ,I come from parsons music

It has been removed from your profile ? OK I do know it was there !
Very odd !!!
Originally Posted by Lady Bird

It has been removed from your profile ? OK I do know it was there !
Very odd !!!


I thought I saw Ronisch too. Maybe the forum is playing tricks on us Lady Bird!
profile toooooooooooo old ,so i need to update hahaha we had produced Ronisch long ago ,just sale for china ,not for export. now i think we dont produced anymore (maybe still have .. dunno ). that's not my business.
Originally Posted by johnstaf
Originally Posted by Lady Bird

It has been removed from your profile ? OK I do know it was there !
Very odd !!!


I thought I saw Ronisch too. Maybe the forum is playing tricks on us Lady Bird!

Must be .........?
.
must be what ? dont tell me you guys can't edit profile yourself
Originally Posted by Ed McMorrow, RPT
Emery, How do you know your Kawai has "hard" hammers?


Hi Ed. My tech tried needling some hammers and he said they were so hard he couldn't do it, would have to return with a needling tool that had some sort of lever on it so he could put more force on the hammerhead without damaging the flange. Later I did some side needling with a single needle per Keith Akin's PTG article and the hammers did seem hard to me, but I was able to penetrate with the single needle. Plus, I've read that Japanese hammers are hot pressed and tend to be harder.

Have you found that to be true with stock Kawai hammers yourself?

Thanks.
Originally Posted by chen
profile toooooooooooo old ,so i need to update hahaha we had produced Ronisch long ago ,just sale for china ,not for export. now i think we dont produced anymore (maybe still have .. dunno ). that's not my business.

Ronisch pianos are really quite expensive and customers have a right to know where they are made!


Originally Posted by Lady Bird
Originally Posted by chen
profile toooooooooooo old ,so i need to update hahaha we had produced Ronisch long ago ,just sale for china ,not for export. now i think we dont produced anymore (maybe still have .. dunno ). that's not my business.

Ronisch pianos are really quite expensive and customers have a right to know where they are made!



According to Piano Buyer, they are completely made in Germany
https://www.pianobuyer.com/brand/ronisch/
Yes that is what it is SAID????
So why the desperate hurry to remove Ronisch from his
profile ?
Originally Posted by Lady Bird
Yes that is what it is SAID????
So why the desperate hurry to remove Ronisch from his
profile ?


Because the poster works for Parsons
Originally Posted by Emery Wang
My tech tried needling some hammers and he said they were so hard he couldn't do it, would have to return with a needling tool that had some sort of lever on it so he could put more force on the hammerhead without damaging the flange.
...
Have you found that to be true with stock Kawai hammers yourself?

I watched the first tech who tuned my piano needle some of the hammers. He was chatting with me while he did it and didn't seem to have difficulty. Maybe there are different needling tools that penetrate to different depths.
Thanks Mark. Did the needling make any improvement in the tone? Was it too bright before? My side needling didn't make any audible difference to me, except on a couple high treble notes that were too loud and pingy. They're ok now.
Originally Posted by Emery Wang
Thanks Mark. Did the needling make any improvement in the tone? Was it too bright before? My side needling didn't make any audible difference to me, except on a couple high treble notes that were too loud and pingy. They're ok now.

Yes the needling made a noticeable improvement. They were too bright before, it was one of the things I had on my list for him to work on and I was happy with the improvement. It is still brighter than I would like, but my piano is in my office, which is only about 14'x14', so that adds to the problem. I don't think he needled the sides, at least from my vantage point it appeared that he was only pressing the tool into the surface of the hammer that strikes the strings.
When did Parsons make Ronisch pianos?
Hmm, interesting you found your Kawai to be bright. Mine has always been pretty mellow, like most Kawais I've played. There are a couple new Shigerus at my dealer, and boy do they have a warm mellow tone. Whatever Kawai does to make that sound, I like it! My only improvement would be a little more power in the bass, even on those new Shigerus. I'm going to experiment with custom bass strings on my piano to see how that affects things. But, that will be for another thread smile
Originally Posted by Lady Bird
When did Parsons make Ronisch pianos?


I’m not implying that Parsons ever made them. The OP was somehow previously associated with Ronish and now for Parsons.
Originally Posted by dogperson
Originally Posted by Lady Bird
When did Parsons make Ronisch pianos?


I’m not implying that Parsons ever made them. The OP was somehow previously associated with Ronish and now for Parsons.


How would you know ?
Originally Posted by Lady Bird
Originally Posted by dogperson
Originally Posted by Lady Bird
When did Parsons make Ronisch pianos?


I’m not implying that Parsons ever made them. The OP was somehow previously associated with Ronish and now for Parsons.


How would you know ?


It would be better for you to get the answer from him so I do not provide incorrect information. He can also answer any follow up questions.

I am sorry about being a pain Emery! .I hope you do get the correct information about exchanging hammers for the KG model Kawai you are interested in. You mentioned getting Abel select hammers.Would these be the closest alternative to new Kawai hammers?
Hi Lady Bird. I do believe Abel hammers are closest to Kawai stock. However, the KG3-C I looked at was a little too far gone. Now I'm on a different wild goose chase, though one I've considered before: putting custom bass strings on my GL10. Since I love everything about my GL10 except for the depth of the bass, if I can get just that extra oomph with better strings, I may opt to keep my baby after all. Nothing makes one appreciate a new piano more than inspecting some old ones. There's something quite appealing about the perfect smoothness and solidity of a new piano that I'm really coming to value.

The guy at JD Grandt thinks their bass strings would make quite a difference, so I plan to put in my order next week.

Keep your fingers crossed for me (that the strings make a difference, and that I don't screw up the restringing)!
Well I shall keep my fingers crossed for extra "oomph" in the bass.
I can understand how you feel about your G10 because the tone
of that small grand is really nice even though not a large tone.
I hope it goes well and that you get good advice here.
Originally Posted by Emery Wang
Hmm, interesting you found your Kawai to be bright.

This was for notes in the C5-C6 area if played loud. Maybe shrill would be a better word than bright.
Originally Posted by Emery Wang
The guy at JD Grandt thinks their bass strings would make quite a difference, so I plan to put in my order next week.

I'm very interested to see if this helps, that would be a nice improvement.
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