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Posted By: LarryK Best 48" uprights new or used for up to $20k? - 11/08/19 12:27 AM
I can't help but think about upgrading when my rental period is up on the U1 and I was wondering what people would recommend for 48" uprights, new or used, up to $20k.

No, I don't have the space for a grand, and never will.

I want a special piano that I can enjoy for a long time.

Recommendations?
My preferences from recent buying experience I think you should try:

K500 - I bought this one
K800
Boston 126PE or 132PE
Bechstein Academy A124
Yamaha YUS5

I would’ve been very happy with any of these but in the end, I chose the best bang for buck because I will be upgrading to a grand in a few years.

They’re not all exactly 48” but are thereabouts (i.e. taller uprights). The above are probably less than USD15k though. I didn’t consider any uprights more expensive than that.

Good luck and happy shopping!
Since your budget is so high, you have a lot of options... try Schimmel, Petrof, Boston, etc. If you do go used, you're going to have a *ton* more of options.

I really liked the Schimmel's when I tried them in the Yamaha shop here. They immediately made me not want any Yamaha upright that was in that shop. I dislike Yamaha upright actions, personally, but when I tried a Yamaha baby grand, I was surprised by how much I liked it -- it really made me question my desire for an upright. I also tried some Petrof's and I liked those as well. The Schimmel/Petrof upright price range isn't appealing to me and I didn't want to go used.

The Kawai K-500 was at the top of my list because of Kawai's amazing support and innovation in piano design. I also own a Novus (which is outstanding), but the sound of the new uprights didn't really sing to me. Some of the Kawai's I tried had really nice feeling actions, even used. The K-500 wood veneer was quoted as $2000 extra, which I felt was ridiculous.

The Ritmuller UH121R or UH121RA (different cabinets) are well below your price point, new. You should definitely play test them; even with your higher budget, you can step up to Kayserburg if you desire.

The Ritmuller's are European-sounding but Chinese-made pianos. Being Chinese-made, you can also expect them to be quite a bit cheaper than the equivalent Yamaha or Kawai. I highly doubt Ritmuller sells in high quantities, being essentially unknown and competing with cheaper Chinese siblings.

If you try the UH132R, be sure you actually play and compare it to the UH121R*, as I personally preferred the sound of the latter. The cabinet design of the UH132R also seems kind of "meh" for some reason, compared to the shorter but fancier siblings.

Yes, I definitely felt the sound and feel of the Ritmuller UH121R* was special.
Thanks for those recommendations.

My teacher told me that she had a Petrof upright but sold it and just has a Steinway grand. I’ll have to ask her for the model of the Petrof.

I want the most bang for my buck so perhaps used is where I’ll be able to do that, but how old? Should I limit myself to the last ten years?

I think I want to stick to 48” because I won’t have to move the painting that is above the U1, LOL, and I will be more likely to keep peace with the neighbors. I don’t need a louder piano in a one bedroom apartment.
Originally Posted by LarryK
Thanks for those recommendations.

My teacher told me that she had a Petrof upright but sold it and just has a Steinway grand. I’ll have to ask her for the model of the Petrof.

I want the most bang for my buck so perhaps used is where I’ll be able to do that, but how old? Should I limit myself to the last ten years?

I think I want to stick to 48” because I won’t have to move the painting that is above the U1, LOL, and I will be more likely to keep peace with the neighbors. I don’t need a louder piano in a one bedroom apartment.


Since your budget is quite good for an upright, you might consider a 48” upright with the silent option. That way you could practice anytime.
With a budget like that you can do venture out into more expensive piano territory.

While U's and K series are nice piano's more expensive European pianos should be played by you.

Keep trying piano's until you find your piano. You will know which one is the one.
Originally Posted by Learux
With a budget like that you can do venture out into more expensive piano territory.

While U's and K series are nice piano's more expensive European pianos should be played by you.

Keep trying piano's until you find your piano. You will know which one is the one.


I do think I’ve picked a number that will allow me to find an excellent piano, however, I still feel that that number leaves out a lot of new European pianos. Perhaps I’ll be forced to buy used.
Originally Posted by j&j
Originally Posted by LarryK
Thanks for those recommendations.

My teacher told me that she had a Petrof upright but sold it and just has a Steinway grand. I’ll have to ask her for the model of the Petrof.

I want the most bang for my buck so perhaps used is where I’ll be able to do that, but how old? Should I limit myself to the last ten years?

I think I want to stick to 48” because I won’t have to move the painting that is above the U1, LOL, and I will be more likely to keep peace with the neighbors. I don’t need a louder piano in a one bedroom apartment.


Since your budget is quite good for an upright, you might consider a 48” upright with the silent option. That way you could practice anytime.


I’m still up in the air about whether to get a piano with a silent system. I’m not playing silently much these days and there are a few problems with a couple of dead keys on the silent system on my rental U1, which I am trying to get fixed.
You have a real problem here, Larry, and you'll have to figure this out for yourself. A used piano is more friendly to the environment. On the other hand, depending on the price, you'd want to have it looked over by your own technician before taking the plunge. In my search, I felt that name brand used pianos were overpriced in general, even when I liked them, compared to other new pianos.

Since you mentioned you want the best bang for your buck, you could take a look at pianos that check both the "Musical Standouts" and "Good Values" columns in the Piano Buyer staff picks:

https://www.pianobuyer.com/article/staff-picks-recommendations/

You'll notice that the Ritmuller UH121RA is there -- deservedly, so, in my opinion, being relatively cheap yet quite special.
This is a luxury problem and a great one to have. Start shopping for piano's you live in a part of the country with lots of piano stores.

Go play all the prestige European piano's it will be a great time.

When you get tired take a break and recharge.

You have a great budget, hopefully some time to shop.

What is not to like!
Originally Posted by LarryK
Originally Posted by Learux
With a budget like that you can do venture out into more expensive piano territory.

While U's and K series are nice piano's more expensive European pianos should be played by you.

Keep trying piano's until you find your piano. You will know which one is the one.


I do think I’ve picked a number that will allow me to find an excellent piano, however, I still feel that that number leaves out a lot of new European pianos. Perhaps I’ll be forced to buy used.


I was thinking the same thing. Your budget, based on my recent shopping experience, seems to be too much for the ones I mentioned but yet not quite enough for the Concert 8s and similar. Maybe there are some gems in between. smile
Originally Posted by WeakLeftHand
Originally Posted by LarryK
Originally Posted by Learux
With a budget like that you can do venture out into more expensive piano territory.

While U's and K series are nice piano's more expensive European pianos should be played by you.

Keep trying piano's until you find your piano. You will know which one is the one.


I do think I’ve picked a number that will allow me to find an excellent piano, however, I still feel that that number leaves out a lot of new European pianos. Perhaps I’ll be forced to buy used.


I was thinking the same thing. Your budget, based on my recent shopping experience, seems to be too much for the ones I mentioned but yet not quite enough for the Concert 8s and similar. Maybe there are some gems in between. smile


Yeah, I guess I'm trying to figure out some of the pianos in the middle.

A million dollars isn't what it used to be and neither is twenty thousand dollars. I don't consider luxury pianos in my reach at that price point.
Originally Posted by LarryK
Originally Posted by WeakLeftHand
Originally Posted by LarryK
Originally Posted by Learux
With a budget like that you can do venture out into more expensive piano territory.

While U's and K series are nice piano's more expensive European pianos should be played by you.

Keep trying piano's until you find your piano. You will know which one is the one.


I do think I’ve picked a number that will allow me to find an excellent piano, however, I still feel that that number leaves out a lot of new European pianos. Perhaps I’ll be forced to buy used.


I was thinking the same thing. Your budget, based on my recent shopping experience, seems to be too much for the ones I mentioned but yet not quite enough for the Concert 8s and similar. Maybe there are some gems in between. smile


Yeah, I guess I'm trying to figure out some of the pianos in the middle.

A million dollars isn't what it used to be and neither is twenty thousand dollars. I don't consider luxury pianos in my reach at that price point.


Even then, with that budget, I think you will be able to find a very sweet 48" upright, sweet enough to make me drool for sure.
Larry, $20k will get you an amazing piano.

You just have to go find them.
Originally Posted by Learux
Larry, $20k will get you an amazing piano.

You just have to go find them.


Can you offer me any hints? smile
The Schimmel dealer is having a clearance sale here in Vancouver.
I know there is a related dealer in Toronto. They would also have
this huge discount as these pianos are being replaced by a different
piano.
I tried the Schimmel C120., Really nice piano. If you bargain well you
could get a really nice piano.Other problems of being far from the dealer
would persist.(warranty, etc)
With the US exchange rate you could have a very good piano.
Just a thought .
The Schimmel in my local piano store is the only one in
Vancouver .(from online information )
Originally Posted by Lady Bird
The Schimmel dealer is having a clearance sale here in Vancouver.
I know there is a related dealer in Toronto. They would also have
this huge discount as these pianos are being replaced by a different
piano.
I tried the Schimmel C120., Really nice piano. If you bargain well you
could get a really nice piano.Other problems of being far from the dealer
would persist.(warranty, etc)
With the US exchange rate you could have a very good piano.
Just a thought .


That's an idea but I wonder about shipping and customs. Could you PM me the details on the Schimmel? Thanks!
Originally Posted by LarryK
Originally Posted by Lady Bird
The Schimmel dealer is having a clearance sale here in Vancouver.
I know there is a related dealer in Toronto. They would also have
this huge discount as these pianos are being replaced by a different
piano.
I tried the Schimmel C120., Really nice piano. If you bargain well you
could get a really nice piano.Other problems of being far from the dealer
would persist.(warranty, etc)
With the US exchange rate you could have a very good piano.
Just a thought .


That's an idea but I wonder about shipping and customs. Could you PM me the details on the Schimmel? Thanks!


There's not only shipping and customs, but also LarryK would have to (or at least should!) travel to Robert Lowry in Toronto to try the piano. No one should buy a piano without playing it first. Surely that would reduce - maybe considerably - any benefit from the current rate of exchange.

Regards,
Will do !
Not sure how far this is from you and how these folks are but it looks like they have a good selection.

https://store.frankandcamilles.com/verticalpianos/

Showroom at

214 GLEN COVE ROAD
CARLE PLACE, NY 11514

I played that Baldwin B-52 and liked it a lot.

How about Cunningham piano's in Philly?
It's not in that dealer Bruce.Unless it is the same one ? The dealer is Tom Lee .
Originally Posted by Lady Bird
It's not in that dealer Bruce.Unless it is the same one ? The dealer is Tom Lee .


Lady Bird, we don't have a Tom Lee in Toronto.

The local Schimmel dealer is Robert Lowrey and a few months ago, they did not have a Schimmel upright in the showroom, so definitely call first!

Lots of Schimmel grands though.
Originally Posted by WeakLeftHand
Originally Posted by Lady Bird
It's not in that dealer Bruce.Unless it is the same one ? The dealer is Tom Lee .


Lady Bird, we don't have a Tom Lee in Toronto.

The local Schimmel dealer is Robert Lowrey and a few months ago, they did not have a Schimmel upright in the showroom, so definitely call first!

Lots of Schimmel grands though.


The two Toronto area piano stores associated with Tom Lee (according to their website) in Markham and Mississauga are Steinway Galleries, selling Steinway, Boston and Essex only, as far as I can gather.

So Robert Lowrey is the Toronto dealer for Schimmel. One website lists the C120 MSRP at $26,00.00 US. SMP on PianoBuyer.com, is $22,600 US. I have no idea what Lowrey would sell the piano for. The C120 is listed as out of stock in the western Canada Tom Lee locations except for "low stock" in North Vancouver.

Regards
Originally Posted by BruceD


The two Toronto area piano stores associated with Tom Lee (according to their website) in Markham and Mississauga are Steinway Galleries, selling Steinway, Boston and Essex only, as far as I can gather.

Regards



That is correct. They are associated/related but the Steinway Gallery is not authorized to sell Schimmels in the Toronto area.
The Schimmel C120 in the ridiculously gorgeous Royal Intarsie finish dealer sticker price is $21,000 here... so with negotiation it should go even lower.

That's the most expensive finish. If you go with a more 'sane' finish, it should be thousands of dollars cheaper off the bat and easily within your budget.
Well, Larry you will have to fly to Vancouver for a holiday and a piano ?
As Bruce said you need to try it ! It probably will not be there for long !
Originally Posted by navindra
The Schimmel C120 in the ridiculously gorgeous Royal Intarsie finish dealer sticker price is $21,000 here... so with negotiation it should go even lower.

That's the most expensive finish. If you go with a more 'sane' finish, it should be (many) thousands of dollars cheaper off the bat and easily within your budget.


That piano has an smp of $29k. So about 25% off.

With that being said you can get a k122 for 22.5. With a little negotiating you might be at 20K.

Off course then there is sale tax and delivery.

Oh the possibilities.
Originally Posted by Learux
Originally Posted by navindra
The Schimmel C120 in the ridiculously gorgeous Royal Intarsie finish dealer sticker price is $21,000 here... so with negotiation it should go even lower.

That's the most expensive finish. If you go with a more 'sane' finish, it should be (many) thousands of dollars cheaper off the bat and easily within your budget.


That piano has an smp of $29k. So about 25% off.


I'm not really following. The dealer street price was $21,000 for the C120 in the most expensive finish possible, before negotiation.

In practice, I haven't found SMP to be good for anything when the dealer *street price* is already marked significantly lower than the supposed SMP. SMP just seems too be another form of MSRP, so why is that useful?
Originally Posted by navindra
The Schimmel C120 in the ridiculously gorgeous Royal Intarsie finish dealer sticker price is $21,000 here... so with negotiation it should go even lower.

That's the most expensive finish. If you go with a more 'sane' finish, it should be thousands of dollars cheaper off the bat and easily within your budget.


Intarsia is wood inlaying, so, I think the high price is based on the number of man hours it takes to inlay those flowers. My wife might go for that piano, nice suggestion. smile

I have a wood in laying story from when I used to build furniture for myself in a professional cabinet maker’s shop. One of the guys building furniture was very talented, he had attended the North Bennet Street School in Boston. One day, the guy was routing the edge of a massive mahogany headboard and his router got away from him and he carved a curved line through the middle of it. He didn’t swear or throw things, he just shut off the router and leaned back against his bench to consider what he had done.

After a few minutes, he started grabbing chisels out of his tool box, and blocks of ebony, and set to work on inlaying a flower in the middle of the headboard. When he was done, you would have thought he has designed the headboard with that element. He couldn’t start over, he would have lost his shirt. I learned a lot about recovering from mistakes when I worked there.
Originally Posted by Learux
How about Cunningham piano's in Philly?

I was just thinking of Cunningham Piano for Larry. It's not that far away from him, he might save on the state tax, and you would likely get a great deal from Rich. Even without a car, you should easily be able to make it to Philly and back in a day, leaving more than enough time to try out all the pianos.
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by Learux
How about Cunningham piano's in Philly?

I was just thinking of Cunningham Piano for Larry. It's not that far away from him, he might save on the state tax, and you would likely get a great deal from Rich. Even without a car, you should easily be able to make it to Philly and back in a day, leaving more than enough time to try out all the pianos.


I'm not against trying to save money but the main problem is that I want to be able to have my teacher try out the piano before I buy it, so that rules out going to Philly. The place on Long Island is kind of far, so I think that leaves all of the dealers in Manhattan, and private sales.
When you are spending $20k on a piano, you really should travel out of your comfort zone to at least have a look.

Are you going to play that piano or your teacher?
The details are C120 EM
The EM stands for Elegance Manhattan? It sounds like it is made
for you ? The ticket price is $34,199 . Dealers are smart ! They raise the
price then give you a discount ! I cannot remember if the finish was polished
ebony or mahogany.It was a darker colour. Nice looking piano.It seemed to me
a bit shorter than my 48" Kawai ? Anyway it sounds as if it is really to far away.
Vancouver is becoming swamped with Petrofs ???
Originally Posted by Learux
When you are spending $20k on a piano, you really should travel out of your comfort zone to at least have a look.

Are you going to play that piano or your teacher?


I will but it's nice to get the opinion of a professional.

I like your quote by Schumann! I feel self-conscious for about five minutes when I start playing and then I relax, and don't care who is listening to me. One of my neighbors across the hall had some unexpected kind words for me regarding my playing, and that was nice. My neighborhood has a large population of musicians because it has always had more reasonable rents than most other neighborhoods in Manhattan, so I think it's not a big deal to play the piano. At one point, a guy gave lessons out of his first floor apartment but he moved away.
Originally Posted by Lady Bird
The details are C120 EM
The EM stands for Elegance Manhattan? It sounds like it is made
for you ? The ticket price is $34,199 . Dealers are smart ! They raise the
price then give you a discount ! I cannot remember if the finish was polished
ebony or mahogany.It was a darker colour. Nice looking piano.It seemed to me
a bit shorter than my 48" Kawai ? Anyway it sounds as if it is really to far away.
Vancouver is becoming swamped with Petrofs ???


That's a beautiful looking piano! Of course, it's hard to figure out exactly what price you would have to pay to buy the thing, LOL.

Here is a nice video on how Schimmel pianos are made. It deals with grand pianos but I found it interesting, nonetheless. A lot of handwork goes into building a piano.

Thank you, I just don't want you to cut yourself short by restrictions.

You owe it to yourself to get the best piano you can get, that involves inconveniences but will pay off tremendously in the long run.
Larry,
All I can say is they need that space so they may give you
that piano for a lower price sooner.,The store is small . We waited
for months and it was only when they became became authorized
dealersfor Sauter that they brought the price down.
The Schimmel piano is fairly "new" from the warehouse.When it first arrived
it was out of tune.Now very much in tune and really nice.
That's enough from me for now.
Vacouver far away, you could go online and negotiate.It would not
be compulsory to buy !
However you do need to get out of your immediate environment
to try pianos, pianos and more pianos !
Originally Posted by LarryK
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by Learux
How about Cunningham piano's in Philly?

I was just thinking of Cunningham Piano for Larry. It's not that far away from him, he might save on the state tax, and you would likely get a great deal from Rich. Even without a car, you should easily be able to make it to Philly and back in a day, leaving more than enough time to try out all the pianos.
I'm not against trying to save money but the main problem is that I want to be able to have my teacher try out the piano before I buy it, so that rules out going to Philly. The place on Long Island is kind of far, so I think that leaves all of the dealers in Manhattan, and private sales.

You've mentioned this being your "lifetime piano." Well, with that mindset, and a budget of $20K, it would be a shame if you limited yourself. You might consider compensating your teacher for her time and bringer her with you on a longer piano shopping trip.
It's raining Petrof pianos!!!
forte P and all the Schimmels walked out the door !
(careful it is a slippery world !)
Originally Posted by WeakLeftHand
Originally Posted by BruceD


The two Toronto area piano stores associated with Tom Lee (according to their website) in Markham and Mississauga are Steinway Galleries, selling Steinway, Boston and Essex only, as far as I can gather.

Regards



That is correct. They are associated/related but the Steinway Gallery is not authorized to sell Schimmels in the Toronto area.

Yes , T L here sells Steinways, Sauter, Yamaha and petrrrr, forte P petrrr (sorry brain freeze )
Originally Posted by LarryK
I can't help but think about upgrading when my rental period is up on the U1 and I was wondering what people would recommend for 48" uprights, new or used, up to $20k.

No, I don't have the space for a grand, and never will.

I want a special piano that I can enjoy for a long time.

Recommendations?


I you're in NYC, you certainly have a lot of options:

Faust Harrison Pianos
Beethover Pianos
Klavierhaus
Allegro Pianos
Forte Piano
Lindeblad Piano

and many more.
Hi LarryK - In the Larry Fines Piano Buyer there is a free online database of current piano prices for most every make and model of piano made, for both uprights and grands. It lists MSRP (Manufacturer’s Suggested Retail Price) which is the typical original price dealers show on their pianos. Then it shows SMP, which is the maximum sales price a buyer should pay. It is discounted from MSRP. You can then pick a percentage further discount from SMP. For my area, I use 20%. That’s the typical “sale” price. Since I always had a trade-in, the dealer typically can and will only give me the sale price because they are giving me full purchase price on a slightly used piano. Since you won’t have a trade in, you can negotiate even lower than their posted “sales price”.
In fact, you might consider buying the Piano Buyer book because there’s valuable information on the many different brands of pianos, how to navigate and negotiate a good deal on a wonderful piano. There’s also a great section on the map of the piano market and it rates and ranks verticals and grands. Plus there’s a Staff Picks section that shows some staff favorites based on quality and value pricing. Best of luck with finding your forever piano.
Oh and as LadyBird mentioned very many piano dealers are having big inventory reduction sales to make room for winter shipments and inventory. Plus the NAMM show, where MI dealers flock to view new instruments and offerings, is mid January. Dealers can get special pricing on new instrument models, especially Disklavier, Spirio, and Transacoustic. Plus everyone wants to have great discounts for Christmas shopping. It’s a great time of year to find a piano at a nice price. 😁
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by LarryK
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by Learux
How about Cunningham piano's in Philly?

I was just thinking of Cunningham Piano for Larry. It's not that far away from him, he might save on the state tax, and you would likely get a great deal from Rich. Even without a car, you should easily be able to make it to Philly and back in a day, leaving more than enough time to try out all the pianos.
I'm not against trying to save money but the main problem is that I want to be able to have my teacher try out the piano before I buy it, so that rules out going to Philly. The place on Long Island is kind of far, so I think that leaves all of the dealers in Manhattan, and private sales.

You've mentioned this being your "lifetime piano." Well, with that mindset, and a budget of $20K, it would be a shame if you limited yourself. You might consider compensating your teacher for her time and bringer her with you on a longer piano shopping trip.


+1 Really consider taking your teacher to Cunningham Piano!
Originally Posted by NobleHouse


+1 Really consider taking your teacher to Cunningham Piano!


I don’t see that happening. I like Philly but I’m a New Yorker. smile

If I were in the market for a grand, I’d visit Cantabile Piano Arts in the Yonkers. My teacher knows the guys there.

https://www.cantabilepianoarts.com/
Originally Posted by LarryK
Originally Posted by NobleHouse


+1 Really consider taking your teacher to Cunningham Piano!


I don’t see that happening. I like Philly but I’m a New Yorker. smile

If I were in the market for a grand, I’d visit Cantabile Piano Arts in the Yonkers. My teacher knows the guys there.

https://www.cantabilepianoarts.com/



Oh well......
Originally Posted by LarryK
Originally Posted by NobleHouse


+1 Really consider taking your teacher to Cunningham Piano!


I don’t see that happening. I like Philly but I’m a New Yorker. smile

If I were in the market for a grand, I’d visit Cantabile Piano Arts in the Yonkers. My teacher knows the guys there.

https://www.cantabilepianoarts.com/

Don’t they carry uprights?
Originally Posted by LarryK
Originally Posted by NobleHouse


+1 Really consider taking your teacher to Cunningham Piano!


I don’t see that happening. I like Philly but I’m a New Yorker. smile

If I were in the market for a grand, I’d visit Cantabile Piano Arts in the Yonkers. My teacher knows the guys there.

https://www.cantabilepianoarts.com/


I'm confused. Is there a reason the purchase of your lifetime piano revolves around your teacher's agenda?

LarryK, your requirements are honestly all over the place. You want bang for the buck... yet super expensive fancy finish for your wife. It has to go well with your painting. You want a lifetime piano, yet not willing to put in the leg work. You don't know if you want silent system or not. Finally, your teacher is somehow at the center of it all.

Perhaps it's worth spending some time to figure out your actual requirements and prioritize them? I'm not sure there's any point in discussing other people's recommendations here... are you planning to try any of them at all? What does your teacher recommend?
Originally Posted by navindra
Originally Posted by LarryK
Originally Posted by NobleHouse


+1 Really consider taking your teacher to Cunningham Piano!


I don’t see that happening. I like Philly but I’m a New Yorker. smile

If I were in the market for a grand, I’d visit Cantabile Piano Arts in the Yonkers. My teacher knows the guys there.

https://www.cantabilepianoarts.com/


I'm confused. Is there a reason the purchase of your lifetime piano revolves around your teacher's agenda?

LarryK, your requirements are honestly all over the place. You want bang for the buck... yet super expensive fancy finish for your wife. It has to go well with your painting. You want a lifetime piano, yet not willing to put in the leg work. You don't know if you want silent system or not. Finally, your teacher is somehow at the center of it all.

Perhaps it's worth spending some time to figure out your actual requirements and prioritize them? I'm not sure there's any point in discussing other people's recommendations here... are you planning to try any of them at all? What does your teacher recommend?


I think my requirements are pretty firm. I want to buy an excellent 48” upright after my rental period expires. I’m 90% certain of skipping the silent system. I’m not a night owl and my neighbors are cool.

I’m willing to put in the work but appreciate people naming brands and models. That has helped me learn of some possibilities I had not thought of.

As for my teacher, it’s just about respect. I respect her opinion and would like to get it before making the purchase.
Define excellent. That's a super vague requirement when talking about pianos. What isn't excellent about your rental?
When the time is right no doubt Larry will find his piano.
Many of us choose pianos in the town they live.There are
also many advantages to do this .
However finding the perfect finish, model and piano at the right price is not
always easy, and so many very good pianos are in polished ebony .
Sometimes a wood finish is cheaper than ebony, often the ebony
is a lower price.
Few dealers have a full range of the right models of a brand in different
woods colours.
Nothing is perfect, even teachers make mistakes choosing pianos and many
do not know much about the technical ,mechanical details of a piano and often
rely on thier own experience.
I once bought a grey Yamaha, returned it a few days later.Then later I bought a
European upright which I love.
Recently I bought a Kawai (1984) upright for teaching which turned out fine.
Perhaps Larry just wanted a few ideas about buying what piano?
I would think when he is ready to start looking seriously he could find the right upright
in New York. Ultimately everybody searches for that "special" piano differently.
Originally Posted by navindra
Define excellent. That's a super vague requirement when talking about pianos. What isn't excellent about your rental?

We all have own expressions even you ......
Larry - If I were in your shoes, I'd definitely check this one out…..

https://newyork.craigslist.org/jsy/msg/d/weehawken-50-beautiful-european-schulze/7016343143.html

https://www.pianobuyer.com/brand/schulze-pollmann/
Now that looks good !
Originally Posted by navindra
Define excellent. That's a super vague requirement when talking about pianos. What isn't excellent about your rental?


Excellent is an individual determination ; but the common denominator of excellence in a piano is that it makes you smile to hear it and touch the keys. Individual preferences for tone or touch do not need to be listed. .... as my preference will not equal yours nor vice versa and each of us will know it when we see it. When I played my current piano, I just knew it was for me. .... that is excellent
Originally Posted by Carey


Sigh, yes, I saw that one. The trouble is that I don’t believe I have the political capital with my wife to pull off the purchase right now.

Marriage is like that, you know, you have to figure out when the wind is fair.

I am dreaming a bit early, I am afraid, but it will happen, I will buy a piano. It doesn’t make sense to rent long term.
That piano in Weehawken looks nice
Originally Posted by LarryK
Originally Posted by Carey


Sigh, yes, I saw that one. The trouble is that I don’t believe I have the political capital with my wife to pull off the purchase right now.

Marriage is like that, you know, you have to figure out when the wind is fair.

I am dreaming a bit early, I am afraid, but it will happen, I will buy a piano. It doesn’t make sense to rent long term.


Yes I exactly understand. You could make Piano shopping a fun full day of shopping with your wife to include stores she loves around going to a piano store for you to try out pianos and ask questions. Then take her to a nice place for lunch or dinner. Make everything pleasant for your wife and she might just enjoy going with you. Be sure to include her in the process.
Originally Posted by LarryK
Originally Posted by Carey


Sigh, yes, I saw that one. The trouble is that I don’t believe I have the political capital with my wife to pull off the purchase right now.

Marriage is like that, you know, you have to figure out when the wind is fair.

I am dreaming a bit early, I am afraid, but it will happen, I will buy a piano. It doesn’t make sense to rent long term.
Larry - I understand the spousal politics ha- and of course, I know nothing about the age or condition of this particular instrument. However, I'm under the impression that SP Masterpiece Series uprights with Renner actions are rare in the USA, and the current SP uprights don't quite measure up even though the casework is gorgeous.

I guess my point is, sometimes exceptional deals pop up unexpectedly and are too good to pass up. Case in point... back in 2006 I stumbled upon a two year old Mason and Hamlin BB (7 foot semi concert grand) for sale for only $22K. Unfortunately I didn't have much spare cash sitting around, and my wife had already been quite understanding four years earlier when I financed $10K for a 5'7" Korean built baby grand piano. But with her blessing, I borrowed against the cash value of my whole life insurance policy and took out loan from my credit union to purchase the M&H. I eventually sold the Korean grand at a loss on consignment (during the recession - so it took about a year.), but when the dust settled, I had invested about $30K in a piano that normally would have sold new in the mid $50s. It was well worth the risk.

But as you say, timing is everything. smile
You are in a piano wonderland! Most people on this board do not have nearly the access to the options in New York City. I live in Texas but when in NY I enjoy going to see some of the brands not available here (though DFW has most brands I would say). Just go and play, that's the only way. You have a great luxury.
Originally Posted by dhull100
You are in a piano wonderland! Most people on this board do not have nearly the access to the options in New York City. I live in Texas but when in NY I enjoy going to see some of the brands not available here (though DFW has most brands I would say). Just go and play, that's the only way. You have a great luxury.


It’s nice that New York is known as Piano Wonderland. Haha! Yes, I have to get out and shop around.

If the next piano is my lifetime piano, I may need to raise my number. Still, think of all the grands I don’t have to consider!
Originally Posted by LarryK
Originally Posted by dhull100
You are in a piano wonderland! Most people on this board do not have nearly the access to the options in New York City. I live in Texas but when in NY I enjoy going to see some of the brands not available here (though DFW has most brands I would say). Just go and play, that's the only way. You have a great luxury.


It’s nice that New York is known as Piano Wonderland. Haha! Yes, I have to get out and shop around.

If the next piano is my lifetime piano, I may need to raise my number. Still, think of all the grands I don’t have to consider!

Since you’re not quite ready to purchase just yet, you have much more time to go to different piano dealers and play every single upright on the floor. Take notes. Have fun. When the time is right, you’ll know exactly where to go and what to try. Purchase the one you love.
Check out the Samick family of pianos. The Eduard Seiler ED-126M is right around 48 inches, and has a magnetic action which most accurately mimics the action of a grand piano. It also has a solid soundboard.

You can 't go wrong with any of the Samick family. I'm partial to the Knabe pianos. They are built to German standards, and have a strong US history. http://www.knabepianos.com/history.php

If I had my choice, I'd get this one...http://www.knabepianos.com/wkv121.php
Originally Posted by StevenJ
Check out the Samick family of pianos. The Eduard Seiler ED-126M is right around 48 inches, and has a magnetic action which most accurately mimics the action of a grand piano. It also has a solid soundboard.

You can 't go wrong with any of the Samick family. I'm partial to the Knabe pianos. They are built to German standards, and have a strong US history. http://www.knabepianos.com/history.php

If I had my choice, I'd get this one...http://www.knabepianos.com/wkv121.php
I mean no disrespect (honestly), but the majority of Samick built Knabes have little resemblance to the Knabe's built in the USA, other than the name. However, I understand that the grand pianos in the higher end Concert Artist series do follow the scale and case designs of the original 19th and 20th century Knabes. As for the current models, I'm not sure what you mean by "built to German standards." Can you elaborate? smile

That said, I'm sure the WKV121 is a very nice piano !!


Originally Posted by StevenJ
Check out the Samick family of pianos. The Eduard Seiler ED-126M is right around 48 inches, and has a magnetic action which most accurately mimics the action of a grand piano. It also has a solid soundboard.

You can 't go wrong with any of the Samick family. I'm partial to the Knabe pianos. They are built to German standards, and have a strong US history. http://www.knabepianos.com/history.php

If I had my choice, I'd get this one...http://www.knabepianos.com/wkv121.php

Seiler --My childhood piano.This was a legendary great European piano! One of the top!
Now it is " part of the Samick family "
"How the mighty have fallen" ! (actually I find it sad ,those are just personal feelings)
Yes I agree with Steven J, these are very good pianos with a great action and "European tone"
The 130 size was the nicest I thought.
This is a very good replica of the real thing which is still made in Germany. (See Brand Profiles ) However I think the Edward Seiler makes use of German parts and I think uses Renner action?
Not sure about that ..
I tried the 124 and the 130 size.Perhaps they have them in New York ?
I wrote to a friend about wanting to buy an upright and he said, always buy German, so I sent him the link to PianoBuyer. I’m not sure he’s gotten over the shock yet. Still, if I can divide the price by 30 years, maybe it doesn’t really matter. At least, that’s what I keep telling myself.
Originally Posted by LarryK
I wrote to a friend about wanting to buy an upright and he said, always buy German, so I sent him the link to PianoBuyer. I’m not sure he’s gotten over the shock yet. Still, if I can divide the price by 30 years, maybe it doesn’t really matter. At least, that’s what I keep telling myself.


Hi Larry
Of course, German uprights are truly outstanding.... but keep an open mind when you start looking rather than narrowing down your options before you test drive. You don’t know what will become your forever piano until you meet it.
Originally Posted by LarryK

It’s nice that New York is known as Piano Wonderland. Haha! Yes, I have to get out and shop around.

If the next piano is my lifetime piano, I may need to raise my number. Still, think of all the grands I don’t have to consider!


Go Manhattan for Faust Harrison and Beethoven Pianos for starters. You'll be spoiled for choice. Yamaha, Sauter, C Bechstein, Grotrian, and others. Could call ahead as a courtesy. I'm sure you will be welcomed. I can tell you probably no other city in the world offers those on the same block, as in footsteps from each other.
A YUS5 although tall has a Sostenuto and a device where this pedal becomes a practice pedal.
Actually not a very powerful tone like some 130 sized pianos .But a very good piano.
I am never sure how successful sostenuto pedals are on uprights ?
The Steinways 46" (not furniture model )I did not like using the sostenuto it seemed to affect the touch in a really weird way. I did not like the sound at all either of this piano .Perhaps the instrument just arrived from the warehouse.I have never seen it in the store before.
Originally Posted by Lady Bird
A YUS5 although tall has a Sostenuto and a device where this pedal becomes a practice pedal.
Actually not a very powerful tone like some 130 sized pianos .But a very good piano.
I am never sure how successful sostenuto pedals are on uprights ?
The Steinways 46" (not furniture model )I did not like using the sostenuto it seemed to affect the touch in a really weird way. I did not like the sound at all either of this piano .Perhaps the instrument just arrived from the warehouse.I have never seen it in the store before.


LadyBird,

Does your Sauter have a sostenuto pedal? Could somebody explain how a sostenuto pedal on an upright works to allow only some notes to ring on? I’m not that big a fan of a piece of felt between the hammers and strings, which is all a practice pedal does on most uprights, although I guess practice pedals can also reduce the distance between the hammers and the strings. I think it’s easy to add a piece of felt and a lever to any upright in order to get the functionality of a practice pedal.
Check out the Ritmüller UH-121R. Punches way above its price point, with a lovely clear, singing tone, excellent sustain and a responsive action.
Originally Posted by Lady Bird
A YUS5 although tall has a Sostenuto and a device where this pedal becomes a practice pedal.
Actually not a very powerful tone like some 130 sized pianos .But a very good piano.
I am never sure how successful sostenuto pedals are on uprights ?
The Steinways 46" (not furniture model )I did not like using the sostenuto it seemed to affect the touch in a really weird way. I did not like the sound at all either of this piano .Perhaps the instrument just arrived from the warehouse.I have never seen it in the store before.

I may be wrong about the tonal power of the YUS5 .(in a large dealer showroom one cannot always
judge when the instrument is surrounded by other pianos )
Yes my piano has a sostenuto pedal.Many pianists even advanced never use a sostenuto.
A practice pedal (muffler,centre pedal) is useful in apartments.(you can even practice a few scales with it at midnight if you can't sleep ?)
The soft pedal is on the left and the hammers move forward so the hammer strike is decreased.
There is however lost motion so and the touch is affected on uprights.It is best not to use the soft
pedal for practice.,until you are much more advanced and want to seriously interpret music.


Originally Posted by adamp88
Check out the Ritmüller UH-121R. Punches way above its price point, with a lovely clear, singing tone, excellent sustain and a responsive action.

I am glad your piano has such a lovely tone and and a sensitive response.Enjoy !
LarryK needs to try one of these as well.
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