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Which New Upright?

Posted By: Jalmusic1

Which New Upright? - 05/10/19 11:00 AM

I'm thinking of buying a new upright. I'm considering one of the Kawai K series, as those seem to get positive comments as far as quality and sound goes. I was wondering what these actually sell for. It seems there are no prices listed anywhere.

If anyone could tell me what those sell for in the U.S. that would be great (I'm in California).

On a side note, I've been trying to listen to demos of pianos on youtube just to get a bead (I know one has to go and play them in person), but it's sort of amazing to me that stores go to the trouble of doing demonstrations, but use cell phones, and sometimes out of tune pianos. Or do a comparison, and play different things, or have the pianos in different rooms, and then, also recorded on a cell phone. It seems crazy that they don't do good recordings with proper mics, etc, if they are trying to sell stuff that is a lot of money in a world where most people buy digital.

Okay, a little rant. grin

Anyway, thanks for any price info or suggestions.

Posted By: backto_study_piano

Re: Which New Upright? - 05/10/19 11:29 AM

Originally Posted by Jalmusic1
I'm thinking of buying a new upright. I'm considering one of the Kawai K series, as those seem to get positive comments as far as quality and sound goes. I was wondering what these actually sell for. It seems there are no prices listed anywhere.

If anyone could tell me what those sell for in the U.S. that would be great (I'm in California).

On a side note, I've been trying to listen to demos of pianos on youtube just to get a bead (I know one has to go and play them in person), but it's sort of amazing to me that stores go to the trouble of doing demonstrations, but use cell phones, and sometimes out of tune pianos. Or do a comparison, and play different things, or have the pianos in different rooms, and then, also recorded on a cell phone. It seems crazy that they don't do good recordings with proper mics, etc, if they are trying to sell stuff that is a lot of money in a world where most people buy digital.

Okay, a little rant. grin

Anyway, thanks for any price info or suggestions.


I think the K series KAWAI are great, good reliable pianos. But I'd also check their direct competitors - YAMAHA YUS series, For a little more $$$$ you could check some others like Schimmel, Boston, and many other brands even Petrof (uprights, not grands).

Prices - you need to ask a dealer, as it will vary - and coming to end of financial year, there could be some deals around.

This might help.

With recordings on YouTube - you're right - but it's not going to happen. It is near impossible to get a recording unless the piano is in a recording studio - and - it's also a potentially expensive process, by the time the piano is moved there, re-tuned, a pianist is hired along with a sound engineer. Profit margins aren't good enough for that to happen.

The other thing which will happen is that "Fred the dealer" will spend thousands recording the ACME range of pianos, put them on YouTube. Then "Frederika the dealer" will go sell her ACME pianos at a lower price on the basis that they didn't spend a fortune recording them.

Then someone is going to say - I wanted an ACME K500 and you've tested a K600 and a K300. No, it's not going to happen.

Posted By: Carey

Re: Which New Upright? - 05/10/19 12:15 PM

In the US if you shop around you should be able to purchase a K series upright for up to 30% OFF of the SMP shown on this chart in the PianoBuyer

https://www.pianobuyer.com/Resources/Piano-Brands-Profiles/Detail/ArticleId/83/Brand/KAWAI

Here's what my new K-500 sounds like...

https://youtu.be/qIqnXVibA9U
Posted By: backto_study_piano

Re: Which New Upright? - 05/10/19 12:51 PM

Originally Posted by Carey
In the US if you shop around you should be able to purchase a K series upright for up to 30% OFF of the SMP shown on this chart in the PianoBuyer

https://www.pianobuyer.com/Resources/Piano-Brands-Profiles/Detail/ArticleId/83/Brand/KAWAI

Here's what my new K-500 sounds like...

https://youtu.be/qIqnXVibA9U



Thanks for the web-link - my previous reply was supposed to say:

This might help:
https://www.pianobuyer.com/Resources/Piano-Brands-Profiles

But - it seems I forgot the link!!!
Posted By: LarryK

Re: Which New Upright? - 05/10/19 02:29 PM

I hope to buy an upright in the next few years and am interested in the Seiler models that are relatively affordable. The Seilers made in Indonesia seem to be around $8k, while those made in Germany are over $40k! A used one is also a possibility.

The guy from Roberts Pianos compares them to Yamahas in this video:

Posted By: Ed McMorrow, RPT

Re: Which New Upright? - 05/10/19 02:40 PM

Kawai is the only piano maker that has the correct specifications applied to the shape of the V-bar. They are shaping it to a true V-profile which eliminates the possibility of any string buzzes coming from that standard piano design feature. Tone is also clearer and the longevity of the strings is enhanced. (Getting manufacturers and rebuilders to shape V-bars correctly has been a "crusade" of mine since the late 1970's when I investigated what the V-bar shape should be.)

I don't know if they have implemented it in 100% of their new pianos, but I have seen it in some Kawai uprights over the last few years.

The V-bar is the termination point for the speaking length of the string located just below the tuning pins and above the action in a vertical piano. You can easily observe it if you open the top.
Posted By: Norbert

Re: Which New Upright? - 05/10/19 08:11 PM

"Comparing a piano to Yamaha" is no longer a great feat: there's many as good or even better pianos on market already.
And not only Kawai or Seiler. People get tired when I mention names, so relax: I won't.
Try as many of the "newer brand" 52" uprights: you may be in for a surprise!
Or even shock...
Then use the money you saved for a nice little holiday!
Appreciating a card from Rome if going there...

Norbert smile

Posted By: LarryK

Re: Which New Upright? - 05/10/19 08:21 PM

Originally Posted by Norbert
"Comparing a piano to Yamaha" is no longer a great feat: there's many as good or even better pianos on market already.
And not only Kawai or Seiler. People get tired when I mention names, so relax: I won't.
Try as many of the "newer brand" 52" uprights: you may be in for a surprise!
Or even shock...
Then use the money you saved for a nice little holiday!
Appreciating a card from Rome if going there...

Norbert smile



I’m not tired, please mention some names.
Posted By: Lady Bird

Re: Which New Upright? - 05/10/19 10:57 PM

Some of the Boston uprights made in Japan are rather nice.
The tone is quite mellow and a fairly good response.I really
liked one U3 Yamaha I played. The tall Ed Seiler had a good
tone also,but I thought some of the bass notes were rather
muddy, (indistinct )I do not know if these have the special
repeatition action.The touch was very ,very light.They are made in
Indonesia.
The K500 is very nice.The one K300 I played "buzzed" madly
when the low Bflat was played Forte. The other one was on
the same level as the new U1.
The YUS5 Yamaha is a great piano but a few K more than the
U3.It has German piano wire and grand piano hammers.The
tone is rather mellow but singing.
The Feurich Vienna 123 you had on the other seems like a good
piano.I could not really judge the tone in that video.
I hope you find your piano.
Posted By: Lady Bird

Re: Which New Upright? - 05/10/19 11:04 PM

Oh it was not you who posted the youtube of the Feurich Vienna
upright but LarryK. Sorry about that !
Posted By: LarryK

Re: Which New Upright? - 05/11/19 12:05 AM

Could people put rough prices on the recommendations?

I’d like to know which ones were $5-10k, $10-15k, etc
Posted By: Jalmusic1

Re: Which New Upright? - 05/11/19 12:53 AM

Originally Posted by backto_study_piano
Originally Posted by Jalmusic1
I'm thinking of buying a new upright. I'm considering one of the Kawai K series, as those seem to get positive comments as far as quality and sound goes. I was wondering what these actually sell for. It seems there are no prices listed anywhere.

If anyone could tell me what those sell for in the U.S. that would be great (I'm in California).

On a side note, I've been trying to listen to demos of pianos on youtube just to get a bead (I know one has to go and play them in person), but it's sort of amazing to me that stores go to the trouble of doing demonstrations, but use cell phones, and sometimes out of tune pianos. Or do a comparison, and play different things, or have the pianos in different rooms, and then, also recorded on a cell phone. It seems crazy that they don't do good recordings with proper mics, etc, if they are trying to sell stuff that is a lot of money in a world where most people buy digital.

Okay, a little rant. grin

Anyway, thanks for any price info or suggestions.


I think the K series KAWAI are great, good reliable pianos. But I'd also check their direct competitors - YAMAHA YUS series, For a little more $$$$ you could check some others like Schimmel, Boston, and many other brands even Petrof (uprights, not grands).

Prices - you need to ask a dealer, as it will vary - and coming to end of financial year, there could be some deals around.

This might help.

With recordings on YouTube - you're right - but it's not going to happen. It is near impossible to get a recording unless the piano is in a recording studio - and - it's also a potentially expensive process, by the time the piano is moved there, re-tuned, a pianist is hired along with a sound engineer. Profit margins aren't good enough for that to happen.

The other thing which will happen is that "Fred the dealer" will spend thousands recording the ACME range of pianos, put them on YouTube. Then "Frederika the dealer" will go sell her ACME pianos at a lower price on the basis that they didn't spend a fortune recording them.

Then someone is going to say - I wanted an ACME K500 and you've tested a K600 and a K300. No, it's not going to happen.



Regarding the recording, I suppose so...

although one could do better than a cellphone! A couple of decent mics and a good interface can be had pretty darn cheap.

Anyway, thanks very much to everyone so far for the replies and links.

I, too, am curious about brands better and cheaper than Kawai.

Also, what's the deal with this?



Lastly, can anyone recommend some reputable dealers in the Los Angeles and/or surrounding areas. I stress reputable! smile I have had the worst luck. frown

Thanks again to everyone!!
Posted By: Carey

Re: Which New Upright? - 05/11/19 02:10 AM

Originally Posted by LarryK
Could people put rough prices on the recommendations?

I’d like to know which ones were $5-10k, $10-15k, etc


Larry -

You can do this yourself......pick a brand.....look at the specific models on the pricing charts ...and then calculate up to 30% off the SMP.

https://www.pianobuyer.com/Resources/Piano-Brands-Profiles
Posted By: LarryK

Re: Which New Upright? - 05/11/19 02:13 AM

Originally Posted by Carey
Originally Posted by LarryK
Could people put rough prices on the recommendations?

I’d like to know which ones were $5-10k, $10-15k, etc


Larry -

You can do this yourself......pick a brand.....look at the specific models on the pricing charts ...and then calculate up to 30% off the SMP.

https://www.pianobuyer.com/Resources/Piano-Brands-Profiles





Of course, I just figured that people who were throwing out various brands of uprights might have some rough numbers in their heads, and could mention them, that's all.

I think a Bösendorfer 130 looks like a good upright to buy. Hahahaha. The OP should check that one out.

Posted By: Carey

Re: Which New Upright? - 05/11/19 02:16 AM

Originally Posted by Jalmusic1
I, too, am curious about brands better and cheaper than Kawai.


This might help.

https://www.pianobuyer.com/Articles/Detail/ArticleId/243/The-New-Piano-Market-Today-Staff-Picks
Posted By: Jalmusic1

Re: Which New Upright? - 05/11/19 02:31 AM

Originally Posted by Carey
Originally Posted by Jalmusic1
I, too, am curious about brands better and cheaper than Kawai.


This might help.

https://www.pianobuyer.com/Articles/Detail/ArticleId/243/The-New-Piano-Market-Today-Staff-Picks


.


Thank you for that!

As a side note on the recording thing, I was looking at that list and saw the Hailun HU5-P, and so I thought, okay, I'll see what that's about.

So I google it and a site comes up for a place called Northwest Pianos, and they say this piano won awards, and beat the Yamaha U1 and Kawai K3, etc.

And then they have a video:

[video:youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=2i2ZgbtSYLQ[/video]

Just a total turnoff! The piano player is good (a million times better than me!), but the recording makes it sound like a tin can!! smile
Posted By: LarryK

Re: Which New Upright? - 05/11/19 08:36 AM


What about a Feurich 115 Premiere? Any thoughts? This model is small and relatively affordable, I think it can be purchased for around $5k. I have a small apartment and so a small, high quality upright would be enough for me.

Posted By: Wry Guy

Re: Which New Upright? - 05/11/19 04:23 PM

I set out to find an upright piano with a Kawai K series upright in mind last year. After visiting a dozen piano showrooms, I ended up purchasing a 20 year old Charles Walter model 1520 from a private owner.

The sound of the Walter piano differs from that of the Kawai. To my ear the tone is fuller and more diffuse--"creamier", if you will accept my eccentric descriptor--and the bass has just as much presence as the best of the full-sized uprights I tried.

The feel is also very nice under my fingers. My perception puts it a touch on the heavier side, like a Kawai, with a keen response to my dynamic wishes.

Since you are looking for a K series as I was, I would encourage you to give Charles Walter a play or two. I found myself pleasantly surprised and ultimately impressed.
Posted By: Wry Guy

Re: Which New Upright? - 05/11/19 04:42 PM

You asked about prices:

The Kawai K300 and K400 pianos I was looking at, all previously owned, were selling for ~$4000-$6000.

The Walters I tried, all previously owned, were mostly selling for ~$4500-$5500.

The Walter I now own I purchased for $2500. I believe I was extremely lucky to find a barely used instrument in excellent condition at that price.
Posted By: Lady Bird

Re: Which New Upright? - 05/11/19 06:53 PM

Originally Posted by LarryK

What about a Feurich 115 Premiere? Any thoughts? This model is small and relatively affordable, I think it can be purchased for around $5k. I have a small apartment and so a small, high quality upright would be enough for me.


If this is what this piano really sounds like ,it is very nice especially
for $5k !
Posted By: LarryK

Re: Which New Upright? - 05/11/19 07:08 PM

Originally Posted by Lady Bird
Originally Posted by LarryK

What about a Feurich 115 Premiere? Any thoughts? This model is small and relatively affordable, I think it can be purchased for around $5k. I have a small apartment and so a small, high quality upright would be enough for me.


If this is what this piano really sounds like ,it is very nice especially
for $5k !


Thanks for your opinion, Lady Bird. I navigated to the pianobuyer link, as I was directed, and found that the SMP of the Feurich 115 Premiere is listed at $6172. I was told to subtract up to 30% which which actually comes to $4322, so the $5k was a rough guess. Is this realistic? Are there any Feurich dealers in the New York City area?

It is a nice size for my space and I like the design of the piano.
Posted By: Lady Bird

Re: Which New Upright? - 05/11/19 07:14 PM

Cary, By the way I enjoyed your playing of the Grieg Butterfly.
Your piano (K500)sounds really nice.Such a good tone !
Posted By: Lady Bird

Re: Which New Upright? - 05/11/19 07:42 PM

LarryK, You really have to try the piano ,and have checked by a technician.Do not make my mistake and not have it checked.I had
to return a piano once because I never had it checked by a technician.
It is often said get as tall an upright as possible because of longer
strings,bigger soundboard and so a rounder tone and bigger bass.
I remember you once saying you were a beginner ,so this piano may
suit you for a number of years.
It sounds as I said really nice in the recording but you need to
try it it to see what it really feels and sounds like.
Posted By: Lady Bird

Re: Which New Upright? - 05/11/19 10:54 PM

Sorry I see it is a new piano.Well having a technician check even
a new piano is not a bad idea !
Posted By: DPCK

Re: Which New Upright? - 05/15/19 08:54 PM

Go for the K500, it has wonderful deep tone and MIII action makes it great piano to own and play. I played on one of them a few times and it was amazing. K300 is good too, yet K500 has better tone.
Posted By: panche23

Re: Which New Upright? - 05/24/19 08:32 PM

i'll be checking the K500 in the near future. The K800 might also be in the mix.
Posted By: Kurtmen

Re: Which New Upright? - 05/24/19 11:16 PM

Wry Guy; The prices you provided are wrong. You do a disservice to the OP as the pianos are not available at those prices in California.
Posted By: pwl

Re: Which New Upright? - 05/25/19 06:19 AM

Originally Posted by Carey

Here's what my new K-500 sounds like...

https://youtu.be/qIqnXVibA9U

Beautiful playing, beautiful sound! Can you share a bit re your recording setup?
Posted By: j&j

Re: Which New Upright? - 05/25/19 12:33 PM

Kurtman- Thank you. I’m not in California but the piano prices frequently quoted for uprights and grands have always been pretty low in comparison to dealers selling prices. I was beginning to think that when the dealers see my SUV park they must instantly run around and change prices before I walk in the door.
I can’t remember the post but someone said a new Yamaha C3X for under $30,000???? Maybe they’re remembering prices from several years back or I’ve experienced the “shame of overpaying”.
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