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A New Piano Brand is Coming

Posted By: Steve Cohen

A New Piano Brand is Coming - 08/23/14 04:21 PM

Schimmel Pianos has announced their intention to market a new line of pianos under the "Fridolin" name. (Fridolin Schimmel was the brother of founder Wilhelm and founded his own piano company after emigrating to Minnesota). Young Chang has been chosen to manufacture the Fridolin piano exclusively for Schimmel dealerships. Schimmel describes the new line as "an exceptional piano that maintains the fine tradition of the Schimmel Piano Company that will now replace the price point of the previous May Berlin piano.

The new line will consist of a 48" and 52" upright and a 5'2" and 6'1" grand at competitive price points. The pianos will use AAA solid spruce soundboards, Roslau wire, all maple action parts and cold-pressed hammers.
Posted By: malkin

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 08/23/14 04:24 PM

They've got some marketing genius at work with their branding.
Posted By: WimPiano

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 08/23/14 06:10 PM

They sure do. Understood that quite a high percentage of May Berlins were rejected by Schimmel.
Posted By: AJF

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 08/23/14 07:55 PM

I'm confused by the above statements. Where's the marketing genius in introducing a new mid level line? That seems to be the status quo for many piano companies. How's this any different then Hoffman, Irmler, Boston, Vogel etc?
I'd be genuinely excited if Schimmel was introducing a new 'highest end' line (like what Kawai did 15 years ago when they introduced the Shigeru)
But I can't imagine a move like that being very economically sound in the current piano market. The reality seems to be that inorder to survive many companies have to dumb down and cheapen the potential of their products to accomodate what people are willing/able to pay these days.
Posted By: Norbert

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 08/23/14 08:34 PM

I wonder about the real reason why Schimmel has given up co-producing with Parsons having now moved over to Young Chang. Not completely convinced it had to do with "quality" but perhaps rather with politics, i.e. "business"

For one, there's many more international Young Chang dealers who could adopt the piano than Parsons has.
Question is also if "Fridolin" will be made in Korea or China, not to do with quality but with 'price'

Wondering if choice of name was totally ideal: quite funny sounding in German and often related to "happy-go-lucky" guys. Too bad don't have that name myself... wink

Wishing the best to company: would be very interested to see the piano and compare how they stack up against some others such a Pramberger Platinum, Ritmüller, Kayserburg and so on.

As often said before, the battle in this segment appears to be intensifying by the month...

Norbert
Posted By: Bosendorff

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 08/23/14 10:16 PM

I remember testing a May Berlin two years ago and I thought it was a quite good piano for its price. I especially liked the touch - it was easy to play, light and responsive.
Posted By: turandot

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 08/23/14 10:22 PM

Originally Posted by AJF
Where's the marketing genius in introducing a new mid level line? That seems to be the status quo for many piano companies. How's this any different then Hoffman, Irmler, Boston, Vogel etc?


This line is to replace May Berlin. May Berlin was not a mid-priced line, but an entry level line. The Vogel has been Schimmel's mid-priced line for a while. So presumably the new line will be entry-level, with a fanciful MSRP that retailers can discount generously while still making some money.. If that doesn't work, Scmimmel will try something else. There must be other names of family members they can draw on.

Owners of Chinese May Berlin pianos will be pleased to know that their pianos will now skyrocket in value due to their rarity. grin

Presumably
Posted By: PianoWorksATL

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 08/23/14 10:48 PM

I've seen the Fridolin exhibited at NAMM and at the recent PTG convention here in Atlanta. The designs are from the Weber line (China production, not Albert Weber - Korea). I won't speculate or gossip about why Schimmel parted ways with Parsons, but the May Berlin pianos we received were quite good overall. The partnership with Young Chang is certainly in part due to personal relationships between Schimmel and other industry reps representing Young Chang/Weber in the US. In other words, they know each other. Schimmel may have different lines/partnerships in other markets besides the US.
Posted By: aesop

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 08/24/14 12:15 AM

I think some people will choose Schimmel Konzert over Shigeru. Especially when they compare the smaller grands of them. Just guess so... Anyway, I find that there is a progress in the Konzert series during the very recent years. Sound and touch. Perhaps still not in the top flight but almost... I'm not sure, it is my personal idea and experience...
Posted By: Glenn Treibitz

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 08/24/14 12:26 AM

Originally Posted by turandot
Originally Posted by AJF
Where's the marketing genius in introducing a new mid level line? That seems to be the status quo for many piano companies. How's this any different then Hoffman, Irmler, Boston, Vogel etc?


This line is to replace May Berlin. May Berlin was not a mid-priced line, but an entry level line. The Vogel has been Schimmel's mid-priced line for a while. So presumably the new line will be entry-level, with a fanciful MSRP that retailers can discount generously while still making some money.. If that doesn't work, Scmimmel will try something else. There must be other names of family members they can draw on.

Owners of Chinese May Berlin pianos will be pleased to know that their pianos will now skyrocket in value due to their rarity. grin

Presumably


William, I heard the next piano line will be the Murray Schimmel made by Peral River. Murray settled outside Sheboygan,WI and was a distant cousin to Fridolin. He was known for inventing the reverse concave floating piano. Half piano and half boat. You could actually play while sailing and it had player piano type pedal pumps for propulsion.
Posted By: JohnSprung

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 08/24/14 07:05 AM

Will it be all new designs? Just new decals on the fallboard? Somewhere in between?

Posted By: Minnesota Marty

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 08/24/14 03:54 PM

This is getting so confusing.

Let's see -- Schimmel of Braunschweig is trying to emulate Schimmel of Faribault via Asia? Uff da!

Schimmel of Sheboygan (Murray) Founded Schimmel & Sons Sausages which specialized in Braunschweiger and obviously is in neither Germany nor Minnesota. It's not the wurst thing that can happen, however.

It can become even more confusing when you understand that the first USA Schimmels were actually Schimmel-Nelsons. By about the mid-1890's, Searick Nelson left the company. Aha, you might think. You'd be wrong. Searick never cabled up with Cable. That was H.P. Nelson. To the best of my knowledge, there has never been a Nelson & Nelson, nor a Schimmel & Schimmel.

One of the few giraffes that I have played was a Schimmel-Nelson at the National Music Museum in South Dakota. Well, it was old and tall and didn't speak German, or even 'Sotan, eh?

I'm waiting for the new Willy, Fred, & Murray pianos built in Wittenberg Wisconsin. That's near Wausau which isn't in Poland or even in Asia.

Alas
Posted By: ando

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 08/24/14 04:17 PM

I'm on the edge of my seat with anticipation... another entry level piano coming out of Asia (claiming its rich European heritage) - sounds truly unique and special...And the name, that is a triumph - I always wanted a piano that was named after a hobbit...
Posted By: Carey

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 08/24/14 04:22 PM

Originally Posted by ando
I'm on the edge of my seat with anticipation... another entry level piano coming out of Asia (claiming its rich European heritage) - sounds truly unique and special...And the name, that is a triumph - I always wanted a piano that was named after a hobbit...

thumb thumb thumb ha
Posted By: Carbonblob

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 08/24/14 04:30 PM

ando +1!

also, whenever I hear the marketing jargon "price point" I think of the now defunct Mills Pride cabinets you pulled off the shelf at Home Depot!

Sorry, can't help the analogy. Think Bosie, SS&S or any high end company would use the term "price point" to describe their offerings? Such a tired and overused description (btw, used in my field of work, ad nauseum, that's why I'm sick of hearing it so often) .......blob
Posted By: malkin

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 08/24/14 06:30 PM

Originally Posted by Glenn Treibitz
[
William, I heard the next piano line will be the Murray Schimmel made by Peral River. Murray settled outside Sheboygan,WI and was a distant cousin to Fridolin. He was known for inventing the reverse concave floating piano. Half piano and half boat. You could actually play while sailing and it had player piano type pedal pumps for propulsion.


The sketches for the Ice Fishing Art Case version of this piano are beautiful. Far beyond the standard white polyester finish.
Posted By: bkw58

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 08/24/14 11:07 PM

Originally Posted by Minnesota Marty
This is getting so confusing.

Let's see -- Schimmel of Braunschweig is trying to emulate Schimmel of Faribault via Asia? Uff da!

Schimmel of Sheboygan (Murray) Founded Schimmel & Sons Sausages which specialized in Braunschweiger and obviously is in neither Germany nor Minnesota. It's not the wurst thing that can happen, however.

It can become even more confusing when you understand that the first USA Schimmels were actually Schimmel-Nelsons. By about the mid-1890's, Searick Nelson left the company. Aha, you might think. You'd be wrong. Searick never cabled up with Cable. That was H.P. Nelson. To the best of my knowledge, there has never been a Nelson & Nelson, nor a Schimmel & Schimmel.

One of the few giraffes that I have played was a Schimmel-Nelson at the National Music Museum in South Dakota. Well, it was old and tall and didn't speak German, or even 'Sotan, eh?

I'm waiting for the new Willy, Fred, & Murray pianos built in Wittenberg Wisconsin. That's near Wausau which isn't in Poland or even in Asia.

Alas


Finally, a break from The Endless Equation. 30 days is too long. Welcome back, Marty. smile

As to the topic at hand, frankly, I would have avoided all of the marketing costs and simply adapted a Shelley sequel title. Son of Schimmel.
Posted By: turandot

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 08/24/14 11:19 PM

Originally Posted by ando
I'm on the edge of my seat with anticipation... another entry level piano coming out of Asia (claiming its rich European heritage) - sounds truly unique and special...And the name, that is a triumph - I always wanted a piano that was named after a hobbit...


Not to be argumentative, but you are dead wrong. It's not an entry-level piano coming out of Asia claiming its rich European heritage. It's another contract piano made to fit a European maker's willingness to pay. The Piano does not claim to have a European heritage. The Chinese piano factory that manufactured it does not claim to have a European heritage. The marketing department of the European company that ordered it, most likely paying as little as possible, is claiming the European heritage.

Parsons can make good pianos, as can other Chinese factories. They have proven that. If it is true as someone implied that Schimmel was unhappy with what they got for their money from Parsons, it may well be the case that they got exactly what they were willing to pay for, and nothing more than that.

I disagree completely with all those who disparage a new model simply because it's entry-level. I only brought that fact up in my post to correct a mistaken impression. Entry-level is a product marketing term to remind people when they are buying said product that ultimately they need to come back and upgrade. Beyond that, the term has no precise meaning.

There are plenty of pianos at different levels of price that outprrform their more expesnvie cousins. And there are plenty of people for whom any new acoustic piano is a luxury, for some an out-of-reach luxury. Poo-poohing the entry-level seems a bit snooty, considering economic reality.

If the piano industry is to survive, it needs the products at the so-called entry level (IOW the products that most people can hope to afford) far more than it needs the high end stuff. The high end niche market is okay for small production companies that don't expect to sell a lot of pianos and build at a rate and speed to fit their sales expectations. But that's not Schimmel's background. In terms of Euorpean factories, they have fairly high capacity. A solitary focus on upper end pianos that those who frequent Internet forums love to discuss endlessly but are unlikely to ever buy will leave a company like Schimmel in a bad place.

It's also true that most owned entry-level pianos stand ready to outperform their owners. Decisions to upgrade are more often than not based on an unsettled feeling on the part of an owner that his piano somehow doesn't measure up to something else that's out there and within or just beyond his spending reach.

Occasionally an entry-level piano raises the bar a little on what's available at its price. That's happened a lot over the last ten years in my opinion. If no one competed there, those improvements would be unlikely to happen. I'm not saying that the Schimmel OEM job from Young Chang will do that, but the piano will speak for itself soon enough.

So for those who honestly feel that news of an entry-level piano is a colossal bore, why not just be silent? Steve was simply reporting industry news. Last time I checked, that's what this forum is supposedly about.

Posted By: Grandman

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 08/24/14 11:39 PM

Originally Posted by turandot
Originally Posted by ando
I'm on the edge of my seat with anticipation... another entry level piano coming out of Asia (claiming its rich European heritage) - sounds truly unique and special...And the name, that is a triumph - I always wanted a piano that was named after a hobbit...


Not to be argumentative, but you are dead wrong. It's not an entry-level piano coming out of Asia claiming its rich European heritage. It's another contract piano made to fit a European maker's willingness to pay. The Piano does not claim to have a European heritage. The Chinese piano factory that manufactured it does not claim to have a European heritage. The marketing department of the European company that ordered it, most likely paying as little as possible, is claiming the European heritage.

Parsons can make good pianos, as can other Chinese factories. They have proven that. If it is true as someone implied that Schimmel was unhappy with what they got for their money from Parsons, it may well be the case that they got exactly what they were willing to pay for, and nothing more than that.

I disagree completely with all those who disparage a new model simply because it's entry-level. I only brought that fact up in my post to correct a mistaken impression. Entry-level is a product marketing term to remind people when they are buying said product that ultimately they need to come back and upgrade. Beyond that, the term has no precise meaning.

There are plenty of pianos at different levels of price that outprrform their more expesnvie cousins. And there are plenty of people for whom any new acoustic piano is a luxury, for some an out-of-reach luxury. Poo-poohing the entry-level seems a bit snooty, considering economic reality.

If the piano industry is to survive, it needs the products at the so-called entry level (IOW the products that most people can hope to afford) far more than it needs the high end stuff. The high end niche market is okay for small production companies that don't expect to sell a lot of pianos and build at a rate and speed to fit their sales expectations. But that's not Schimmel's background. In terms of Euorpean factories, they have fairly high capacity. A solitary focus on upper end pianos that those who frequent Internet forums love to discuss endlessly but are unlikely to ever buy will leave a company like Schimmel in a bad place.

It's also true that most owned entry-level pianos stand ready to outperform their owners. Decisions to upgrade are more often than not based on an unsettled feeling on the part of an owner that his piano somehow doesn't measure up to something else that's out there and within or just beyond his spending reach.

Occasionally an entry-level piano raises the bar a little on what's available at its price. That's happened a lot over the last ten years in my opinion. If no one competed there, those improvements would be unlikely to happen. I'm not saying that the Schimmel OEM job from Young Chang will do that, but the piano will speak for itself soon enough.

So for those who honestly feel that news of an entry-level piano is a colossal bore, why not just be silent? Steve was simply reporting industry news. Last time I checked, that's what this forum is supposedly about.



Anyone poking fun at "entry level" pianos needs to read this post carefully. The fact is, we can all ooohh and aahhh all we want over the tier 1 pianos, but for most people, the entry and mid tier levels is where the industry lives or dies. To view this post as a disappointment and to make ridicule is baffling to me. Schimmel doesn't need to come up with another Shigeru Kawai. They already have the Konzert grands for that. They need to find a way to make great pianos an affordable reality if the industry is to survive. And with today's technology with advanced machinery, this is very possible, as evidenced by the number of good pianos already being made.
Posted By: Steve Cohen

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 08/24/14 11:41 PM

Originally Posted by turandot
Originally Posted by ando
I'm on the edge of my seat with anticipation... another entry level piano coming out of Asia (claiming its rich European heritage) - sounds truly unique and special...And the name, that is a triumph - I always wanted a piano that was named after a hobbit...


Not to be argumentative, but you are dead wrong. It's not an entry-level piano coming out of Asia claiming its rich European heritage. It's another contract piano made to fit a European maker's willingness to pay. The Piano does not claim to have a European heritage. The Chinese piano factory that manufactured it does not claim to have a European heritage. The marketing department of the European company that ordered it, most likely paying as little as possible, is claiming the European heritage.

Parsons can make good pianos, as can other Chinese factories. They have proven that. If it is true as someone implied that Schimmel was unhappy with what they got for their money from Parsons, it may well be the case that they got exactly what they were willing to pay for, and nothing more than that.

I disagree completely with all those who disparage a new model simply because it's entry-level. I only brought that fact up in my post to correct a mistaken impression. Entry-level is a product marketing term to remind people when they are buying said product that ultimately they need to come back and upgrade. Beyond that, the term has no precise meaning.

There are plenty of pianos at different levels of price that outprrform their more expesnvie cousins. And there are plenty of people for whom any new acoustic piano is a luxury, for some an out-of-reach luxury. Poo-poohing the entry-level seems a bit snooty, considering economic reality.

If the piano industry is to survive, it needs the products at the so-called entry level (IOW the products that most people can hope to afford) far more than it needs the high end stuff. The high end niche market is okay for small production companies that don't expect to sell a lot of pianos and build at a rate and speed to fit their sales expectations. But that's not Schimmel's background. In terms of Euorpean factories, they have fairly high capacity. A solitary focus on upper end pianos that those who frequent Internet forums love to discuss endlessly but are unlikely to ever buy will leave a company like Schimmel in a bad place.

It's also true that most owned entry-level pianos stand ready to outperform their owners. Decisions to upgrade are more often than not based on an unsettled feeling on the part of an owner that his piano somehow doesn't measure up to something else that's out there and within or just beyond his spending reach.

Occasionally an entry-level piano raises the bar a little on what's available at its price. That's happened a lot over the last ten years in my opinion. If no one competed there, those improvements would be unlikely to happen. I'm not saying that the Schimmel OEM job from Young Chang will do that, but the piano will speak for itself soon enough.

So for those who honestly feel that news of an entry-level piano is a colossal bore, why not just be silent? Steve was simply reporting industry news. Last time I checked, that's what this forum is supposedly about.



Great post, Tur!
Posted By: Minnesota Marty

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 08/25/14 12:03 AM

What European Heritage?

Just because Heinrich Engelhard Steinweg emigrated from Germany in 1850 and founded Steinway & Sons in 1853 in NYC, does that mean that an 1857 S&S is a German piano? We consider it to be about as 'American' as it gets.

Though Fridolin Schimmel emigrated from Germany, like dear Henry Steinway, Fred Schimmel built his very 'American' pianos in the United States. This time in a little town called Faribault Minnesota. His patents are American, not German.

It's nothing more than not very inspired marketing hooey. When Europe discovers that Fridolin was an American piano builder, do you think that "European Heritage" is going to hold water?

A Schimmelsan-Grotrivitch built in Bali would have more credibility.
Posted By: AJF

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 08/25/14 06:28 PM

Originally Posted by turandot
Originally Posted by ando
I'm on the edge of my seat with anticipation... another entry level piano coming out of Asia (claiming its rich European heritage) - sounds truly unique and special...And the name, that is a triumph - I always wanted a piano that was named after a hobbit...


Not to be argumentative, but you are dead wrong. It's not an entry-level piano coming out of Asia claiming its rich European heritage. It's another contract piano made to fit a European maker's willingness to pay. The Piano does not claim to have a European heritage. The Chinese piano factory that manufactured it does not claim to have a European heritage. The marketing department of the European company that ordered it, most likely paying as little as possible, is claiming the European heritage.

Parsons can make good pianos, as can other Chinese factories. They have proven that. If it is true as someone implied that Schimmel was unhappy with what they got for their money from Parsons, it may well be the case that they got exactly what they were willing to pay for, and nothing more than that.

I disagree completely with all those who disparage a new model simply because it's entry-level. I only brought that fact up in my post to correct a mistaken impression. Entry-level is a product marketing term to remind people when they are buying said product that ultimately they need to come back and upgrade. Beyond that, the term has no precise meaning.

There are plenty of pianos at different levels of price that outprrform their more expesnvie cousins. And there are plenty of people for whom any new acoustic piano is a luxury, for some an out-of-reach luxury. Poo-poohing the entry-level seems a bit snooty, considering economic reality.

If the piano industry is to survive, it needs the products at the so-called entry level (IOW the products that most people can hope to afford) far more than it needs the high end stuff. The high end niche market is okay for small production companies that don't expect to sell a lot of pianos and build at a rate and speed to fit their sales expectations. But that's not Schimmel's background. In terms of Euorpean factories, they have fairly high capacity. A solitary focus on upper end pianos that those who frequent Internet forums love to discuss endlessly but are unlikely to ever buy will leave a company like Schimmel in a bad place.

It's also true that most owned entry-level pianos stand ready to outperform their owners. Decisions to upgrade are more often than not based on an unsettled feeling on the part of an owner that his piano somehow doesn't measure up to something else that's out there and within or just beyond his spending reach.

Occasionally an entry-level piano raises the bar a little on what's available at its price. That's happened a lot over the last ten years in my opinion. If no one competed there, those improvements would be unlikely to happen. I'm not saying that the Schimmel OEM job from Young Chang will do that, but the piano will speak for itself soon enough.

So for those who honestly feel that news of an entry-level piano is a colossal bore, why not just be silent? Steve was simply reporting industry news. Last time I checked, that's what this forum is supposedly about.



I don't think you're stating anything here that isn't common knowledge to any avid PW member.
I think Ando's commentary was more on the marketing hype machine that sells entry level pianos (it was also light hearted although you chose not to take it that way). Your description of what entry level pianos provide is spot on. However I think we can also agree that one of the marketing tactics that manufacturers and dealers use is to try and convince consumers (who, in the entry level demographic, are often quite ignorant)
that they are getting a product that is NOT just entry level at an entry level price.

And if you think that the whole 'European heritage' hype isn't going to be used to sell these pianos I think you're mistaken.

My comments earlier in this thread were simply a query as to why anyone would consider this new endeavor for Shimmel to be "genius" marketing. (Thanks for correcting me on my misuse of the term mid level--although to me that's just semantics)
Posted By: AJF

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 08/25/14 06:31 PM

Originally Posted by aesop
I think some people will choose Schimmel Konzert over Shigeru. Especially when they compare the smaller grands of them. Just guess so... Anyway, I find that there is a progress in the Konzert series during the very recent years. Sound and touch. Perhaps still not in the top flight but almost... I'm not sure, it is my personal idea and experience...


How is this at all relevant to this thread?
I think some people will choose a Hammond B3 over a Bosendorfer Imperial, especially if they like Jimmy Smith :-P
Posted By: Beacon Chris

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 08/25/14 07:01 PM

The title of this thread caught my ear and all I could imagine was a theatrical trailer narrated by Don LaFontaine… "In a world... one new piano brand… coming from the far east... and from the deep, dark forests of Germany… arriving in stores December 24th... "

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QPMvj_xejg

grin
Posted By: aesop

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 08/25/14 09:27 PM

Originally Posted by AJF
Originally Posted by aesop
I think some people will choose Schimmel Konzert over Shigeru. Especially when they compare the smaller grands of them. Just guess so... Anyway, I find that there is a progress in the Konzert series during the very recent years. Sound and touch. Perhaps still not in the top flight but almost... I'm not sure, it is my personal idea and experience...


How is this at all relevant to this thread?
I think some people will choose a Hammond B3 over a Bosendorfer Imperial, especially if they like Jimmy Smith :-P


I mentioned the Shigeru just because you mentioned it. There is obviously an underestimation on Schimmel in your post, and maybe an overestimation on the other. Very subjective. But I didn't reply directly to you. Why not? Because I don't think you're someone I would ever like to have a talk with. Sorry to be impolite.
Posted By: turandot

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 08/25/14 10:33 PM

Originally Posted by AJF

I don't think you're stating anything here that isn't common knowledge to any avid PW member.


If that's the case, then I'm happy.

I'll presume that "any avid member" includes you, so I'm doubly happy.
Posted By: AJF

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 08/27/14 01:54 AM

Originally Posted by aesop
Originally Posted by AJF
Originally Posted by aesop
I think some people will choose Schimmel Konzert over Shigeru. Especially when they compare the smaller grands of them. Just guess so... Anyway, I find that there is a progress in the Konzert series during the very recent years. Sound and touch. Perhaps still not in the top flight but almost... I'm not sure, it is my personal idea and experience...


How is this at all relevant to this thread?
I think some people will choose a Hammond B3 over a Bosendorfer Imperial, especially if they like Jimmy Smith :-P


I mentioned the Shigeru just because you mentioned it. There is obviously an underestimation on Schimmel in your post, and maybe an overestimation on the other. Very subjective. But I didn't reply directly to you. Why not? Because I don't think you're someone I would ever like to have a talk with. Sorry to be impolite.


That's not impolite. It's just odd and very judgemental.
I like talking with people and freely sharing thoughts. But I'm ok if we never have a chat Aesop. We'll both be fine without each other I'm sure.
Nothing in the post you replied to made any sort of comparison between Shimmel and Shigeru. I simply said that I would be excited if a company like Schimmel where announcing a new line of pianos that was a step UP from their highest line. I then used the example of what Kawai did with their Shigeru line. I could have easily used the Yamaha S series as a similar comparison. I don't think a company introducing another entry level piano is any sort of marketing genius. I think it's a common model for just about every piano company in 2014.
Posted By: turandot

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 08/27/14 02:04 PM

Originally Posted by AJF

Nothing in the post you replied to made any sort of comparison between Shimmel and Shigeru. I simply said that I would be excited if a company like Schimmel where announcing a new line of pianos that was a step UP from their highest line. I then used the example of what Kawai did with their Shigeru line. I could have easily used the Yamaha S series as a similar comparison.


Adrean,

In your original post you stated:

I'd be genuinely excited if Schimmel was introducing a new 'highest end' line (like what Kawai did 15 years ago when they introduced the Shigeru)

That was a direct comparion. In reference to Schimmel's new line, you added:

The reality seems to be that in order to survive many companies have to dumb down and cheapen the potential of their products to accommodate what people are willing/able to pay these days.

The comparison is pretty clear, and using the words "dumb down and cheapen the potential of their products" is a pretty inflammatory way to state the obvious. It's in any company's interest to make products that people are willing and able to pay for. The consequences of not doing that are pretty serious for any company. And there is no necessary correlation between developing less expensive products and losing your potential to create improved higher lines.

I did not react to the dumbing down comment because I know you can sometimes get a little hot under the collar when you're expressing your opinions, but I can certainly understand how fans of Schimmel pianos might find those words needlessly intense.

Kawai also empahsizes lower line products. For many years Kawai oversaw a campaign to get their dealers to support one and only one Kawai model in the annual MMR "Acoustic Piano of the Year" competition voted on by all piano retailers. As a result of keeping their dealers in line with their own thinking, Kawai won the award for a record number of consecutive years. The model that they supported was the K-3, not the Shigeru Kawai.

Kawai used the award liberally in their advertising, without explaining to the consumer market that it was an inside the industry award from MMR, Musical Merchandise Review, which serves the industry rather than consumers.

I understand your enthusiasm for the piano of your choice, the Shigeru Kawai. But let's be real here. You used to be on the Kawai artist page as an endorsing artist for the Shigeru. Your mug shot sat right next to Earl Wild's. I just had a peek and the page is somewhat different with many endorsers listed, but you're still there.

http://www.shigerukawai.com/acclaim/

For that reason I don't think it's just as likely that you would have chosen the Yamaha S. as your example of raising the bar at the high end.

Now before you come back at me with more heat from under your collar, ask yourself if you could have made your point without the inflammatory bluster.




Posted By: Minnesota Marty

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 08/27/14 02:39 PM

Originally Posted by turandot
Adrean,

In your original post you stated:

I'd be genuinely excited if Schimmel was introducing a new 'highest end' line (like what Kawai did 15 years ago when they introduced the Shigeru)

That was a direct comparion [sic].

I read that quote to indicate a method of introducing a new piano line rather than a comparison of specific pianos. An UberSchimmel might be quite nice, however. There is no indication that the Fridolin even falls into the same category of a Kawai, much less a Shigeru.
Posted By: AJF

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 08/27/14 04:03 PM

Thanks Marty for actually GETTING what I was saying. My original point (as now stated a THIRD time) was simply a response to two statements heralding this move by Schimmel as "genius marketing" which I don't think is the case.
Turandot, I've learned in my 8 years here that there's no point trying to argue with you so you can go ahead and take my words in any way you choose. I know what I was trying so say and I then clarified my point in a subsequent post. If you wanna play armchair attorney at law and scrutinize my words and presume to know my intentions better than I do that's your prerogative.
Posted By: turandot

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 08/27/14 04:56 PM

Adren,

I don't want to argue with you and I don't doubt the sincerity of your intentions. The dumbing down reference didn't bother me. I thought to myself -- that's Adrean being Adrean. I hoped to help you understand that your point could have been made effectively, more effectively actually, without the rhetoric. You don't see thatt, so let's leave it at that.

I sense from a recent post that if I hang around here, the thread will likely be dragged down to the level of playground politicking, so I'm pulling the ripcord on my chute.

Keep the faith.
Posted By: Almaviva

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 08/27/14 05:09 PM

Schimmel already has FOUR piano lines: Konzert, Classic, Schimmel International & Wilhelm Schimmel. Now they are introducing a FIFTH piano line, with a name that sounds suspiciously like a character from a Tolkien novel?

Is this some sort of "insider's joke" within the piano industry?
Posted By: LarryShone

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 08/27/14 05:41 PM

Not a new brand then but a new line! Got my hopes up there!
Posted By: beethoven986

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 08/27/14 11:45 PM

Like Sam, I also saw the 6' model at the PTG national convention, in Atlanta. Very clearly a Fandrich design. Very formidable piano.
Posted By: Del

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 08/28/14 04:18 AM

Originally Posted by Norbert
I wonder about the real reason why Schimmel has given up co-producing with Parsons having now moved over to Young Chang. Not completely convinced it had to do with "quality" but perhaps rather with politics, i.e. "business"

Could it be that they liked the pianos? No, surely not! There must be some other nefarious reason behind it all. shocked

ddf
Posted By: Retsacnal

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 08/28/14 06:44 AM

I hate to be a wet blanket, but an existing company, contracting an existing factory, to make a line of pianos to replace an existing line of pianos that were produced at a competing factory, and putting a contrived name on them just doesn't really seem like a "new brand" to me...just more of the same.

I think a group of entrepreneurs who put together a new design and build it in a new facility could claim to be a "new brand," and it would be cool to see, but I doubt it would happen. Well, maybe in China, given the voracious demand for pianos there. In fact, perhaps Hailun is the newest brand...
Posted By: JohnSprung

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 08/28/14 07:12 AM

Originally Posted by Beacon Chris
The title of this thread caught my ear and all I could imagine was a theatrical trailer narrated by Don LaFontaine…


RIP, Don (1940 - 2008)

Posted By: ando

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 08/28/14 08:57 AM

Originally Posted by Retsacnal
I hate to be a wet blanket, but an existing company, contracting an existing factory, to make a line of pianos to replace an existing line of pianos that were produced at a competing factory, and putting a contrived name on them just doesn't really seem like a "new brand" to me...just more of the same.


Precisely. And that's what prompted my sarcastic response above. Those who took offence are not looking at this situation for what it is. The thread title alone is fallacious. I'm as excited as anyone when a new piano company is founded - whatever the price-point. But this is not "new", for all the reasons Retsacnal has stated. I have a low tolerance for marketing BS.
Posted By: turandot

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 08/28/14 02:53 PM

Originally Posted by ando
Originally Posted by Retsacnal
I hate to be a wet blanket, but an existing company, contracting an existing factory, to make a line of pianos to replace an existing line of pianos that were produced at a competing factory, and putting a contrived name on them just doesn't really seem like a "new brand" to me...just more of the same.


Precisely. And that's what prompted my sarcastic response above. Those who took offence are not looking at this situation for what it is. The thread title alone is fallacious. I'm as excited as anyone when a new piano company is founded - whatever the price-point. But this is not "new", for all the reasons Retsacnal has stated. I have a low tolerance for marketing BS.


Well Ando,

Maybe your learning curve isn't a flat line after all. At least you're acknowledging that the burden of the BS lies with Schimmel here and not with another Asian piano claiming to have a European heritage.

I'm not so sure that the thread title is fallacious though. The post that you're responding to with your precisely endorsement describes precisely what Steinway did when it took the Essex OEM contract away from Young Chang and gave it to Pearl River. Maybe the Essex name sounds better to you than Fridolin. I don't know. It's never set well with me. They stole it from a deli in Boston that I really liked, and now the deli is out of business. I blame Steinway. grin

In many ways, you can blame Steinway for tho whole proliferation of OEM sub lines from Euro makers, sub lines that are much more about controlling costs than putting any new thinking into new products. If Steinway hadn't been so darned successful with the Boston and the Essex, European makers probably wouldn't be traipsing through Asia year after year tripping over their own feet trying to come up with their own winning sub line formula.

If you're stating that you have a low tolerance for BS to explain your sarcasm, I understand, and certainly the name on the fallboard is fair game for humor as long as you acknowledge that it's on Schimmel and not on the Asian factory.

But if you're stating your low tolerance as some sort of principle that guides you decisions in life, you might want to consider not buying a piano at all in the future. BS of the heritage variety is an industry thing. The high end is hardly immune.

And really, for whatever reason you're making the statement, it sounds a bit pompous. You may as well say: "I have a low tolerance for gluten." or "Wool socks make my feet itch." The attention paid to your pronouncement by those in the piano industry will be about the same. grin

My advice to you, not that you want any, would be to exercise some patience and let the piano, regardless of its name or its humble origins, speak for itself before you pounce on it. It will be available soon enough. In the piano industry you never know where enlightened thinking will force a crack in the surface layer of BS. The cold-pressed hammers caught my eye. I'll assume that they grew out of a Del recommendation. They may keep the piano from being all attack and no bloom. Can't be sure, but you never know.
Posted By: ando

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 08/28/14 06:33 PM

Originally Posted by turandot

My advice to you, not that you want any, would be to exercise some patience and let the piano, regardless of its name or its humble origins, speak for itself before you pounce on it. It will be available soon enough. In the piano industry you never know where enlightened thinking will force a crack in the surface layer of BS. The cold-pressed hammers caught my eye. I'll assume that they grew out of a Del recommendation. They may keep the piano from being all attack and no bloom. Can't be sure, but you never know.


And my advice to you, Turandot, is to quit with the 3 page essays trying to make your point. You are using the "preponderance of evidence" approach to debating - that is: if you write huge posts, seemingly covering every possible angle of disputation, you will eventually cause the will of those who oppose your viewpoint to crumble. It becomes a war of attrition.

Now, sure you make some valid points about the realities of the piano industry, but trying to catch me out on some logical inconsistency is a waste of your time. Why? Because I was perfectly aware of how glib and dismissive I was being. Being glib and dismissive is all part of the fun in a sarcastic reply. I do find this "new piano brand" stuff to be a load of marketing BS, and that prompted my sarcastic reply. It wasn't meant to be dissected for rigorous accuracy - some posters here knew exactly what I was driving at when I said it.

You make a strawman argument by raising the Steinway marketing approach because I never did take a position here about it. I'm not obligated to include them in my glib, sarcastic replies about Schimmel. There's no double-standard here to expose. The fact that the Steinway approach "never sat well with you" should be enough for you to understand why I reacted the way I did.

You should be careful with your attitude of commenting on other posters' learning curves because you leave yourself wide open for examination yourself. You should never assume that a short post or two represents the sum total of their understanding of something - for all you know their understanding may far surpass your own.

Oh, and I never blamed any Asian factory for anything. I think it's clear where I place the blame - the people who commissioned the thing. A factory supplying an order can't be blamed for anything.

Posted By: Steve Cohen

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 08/28/14 08:46 PM

To my understanding a "Brand" is the name under which a product is marketed.

"Tide" is a brand as is "Wisk". The fact that they may both be made by the same company and have similar or even identical formulae doesn't somehow make them ineligible to be called separate brands. The same used to be true of some Dodge and Pontiac models.

Samick has had a couple of models (low-end) that have identical construction with the only difference being the brand.

We don't know the specs of the new Schimmel, nor details of its design, yet some here are critical of it even being called a "new brand".
Posted By: PianoWorksATL

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 08/28/14 09:11 PM

Originally Posted by Steve Cohen
We don't know the specs of the new Schimmel, nor details of its design, yet some here are critical of it even being called a "new brand".
For clarification because my previous post may not have been clear, at NAMM and at the National PTG convention, the introduction of Fridolin consisted of swapping the fallboard from a new Weber. Literally, inside the piano with a Fridolin fallboard was the same Weber soundboard decal as if the swap was last minute. If more differentiation is on the horizon, then those details would be helpful, but for now, compare to Del's Webers.
Posted By: turandot

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 08/28/14 09:41 PM

Adno,

So you don't like long posts and you don't like being called out. Okay. This will be short and to the point.

There is no acceptable reason why an industry member with as much knowledge and experience as Steve Cohen, a member who never, and I mean never, touts a brand he sells, should have to put up with the uninformed sarcasm that has occurred on this thread.

Steve was simply reporting news from the industry. He was not endorsing the piano of the maker's strategy. If you don't think the news is relevant to you, please allow for the possibility that it's relevant and interesting to others, and that your attempts to look smart will get in the way of those who can add to the facts or would like more information about the topic.

I'm not debating you. All you have here is what you have termed your glib sarcasm. I see a lot of excuses, but no facts. I'm not out to get you either. It's not personal. I'm just pissed that Steve had to put up with this. There are few industry people here as it is. If attempts by them to offer neutral information are greeted like this, there wil be none.

Posted By: ando

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 08/28/14 11:24 PM

Geez, what happened to you, turandot? You used to be all about irreverence. Now you are the voice of pedantry. Is there no latitude for the odd quip anymore?
Posted By: phacke

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 08/28/14 11:46 PM

Originally Posted by turandot

There is no acceptable reason why an industry member with as much knowledge and experience as Steve Cohen, a member who never, and I mean never, touts a brand he sells, should have to put up with the uninformed sarcasm that has occurred on this thread.


Oh, I don't know. Mr. Cohen is a pro, and as such, should be able to use it as market feedback, a real impression point that comes free of cost, from a certain segment of the market and place it appropriately. In his shoes, I would.
Posted By: ando

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 08/29/14 12:27 AM

Yes, Phacke, I don't think this was too injurious to Steve Cohen. Nobody had a crack at him anyway.
Posted By: PhilipInChina

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 08/29/14 02:49 AM

Originally Posted by turandot
Adno,

So you don't like long posts and you don't like being called out. Okay. This will be short and to the point.

There is no acceptable reason why an industry member with as much knowledge and experience as Steve Cohen, a member who never, and I mean never, touts a brand he sells, should have to put up with the uninformed sarcasm that has occurred on this thread.

Steve was simply reporting news from the industry. He was not endorsing the piano of the maker's strategy. If you don't think the news is relevant to you, please allow for the possibility that it's relevant and interesting to others, and that your attempts to look smart will get in the way of those who can add to the facts or would like more information about the topic.

I'm not debating you. All you have here is what you have termed your glib sarcasm. I see a lot of excuses, but no facts. I'm not out to get you either. It's not personal. I'm just pissed that Steve had to put up with this. There are few industry people here as it is. If attempts by them to offer neutral information are greeted like this, there wil be none.


+1
Posted By: Minnesota Marty

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 08/29/14 03:44 AM

I'm still trying to figure out who Adno and Andren are.
Posted By: AJF

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 08/29/14 05:03 AM

And more importantly, is Fridolin the brother of Gimli, Gloin, or Bofur? I'm not current on my Dwarven lineages...
Posted By: ando

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 08/29/14 01:50 PM

Originally Posted by Minnesota Marty
I'm still trying to figure out who Adno and Andren are.
Me too Marty, this thread is giving me an identity crisis...
Posted By: turandot

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 08/29/14 02:04 PM

Originally Posted by ando
Geez, what happened to you, turandot? You used to be all about irreverence. Now you are the voice of pedantry. Is there no latitude for the odd quip anymore?


Maybe you have something there Ando. I used to come in here as I suppose many others do. I'd open the forum page and check the thread topic list. If there was something of interest to me, I'd log in. If there wasn't I wouldn't.

These days I check the list of most recent posts first. If a pattern emerges, I don't log in regardless of the topics.

I'll respect your desire for brevity with no facts and leave it at that.


I will tell you that I've never been one with a tolernace for this....

Originally Posted by Ando
I was perfectly aware of how glib and dismissive I was being. Being glib and dismissive is all part of the fun in a sarcastic reply.


In this thread were some members with questions, a couple of industry people who had seen the piano, and the guy who had designed the piano. If the thread had not been burdened with the 'fun' presented by those who came to preen in the social media mirror, things might have gone differently.

On the other hand, maybe glib and dismissive 'fun' is what people want these days. According to the page view odometer, this eviscerated thread has 22,000 + views. I don't see how that's possible, but maybe I'm unaware of what's really important these days.

Whichever direction things ultimately go in this forum, whether it's to be facts or 'fun', will be in the hands of the moderators. I don't envy them a bit.
Posted By: Almaviva

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 08/29/14 06:42 PM

Steve, that means that Schimmel will now have FIVE piano lines. Or will this new "Fridolin" line replace either the Schimmel International line, the Wilhelm Schimmel line, or both of them?
Posted By: Steve Cohen

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 08/29/14 11:28 PM

Originally Posted by Almaviva
Steve, that means that Schimmel will now have FIVE piano lines. Or will this new "Fridolin" line replace either the Schimmel International line, the Wilhelm Schimmel line, or both of them?


I haven't got a clue.

Posted By: ando

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 08/30/14 06:58 PM

Turandot, we all pick and choose our moments when we are serious and when we opt for levity. You are no different. I participate in the forum in a range of modes, ranging from absurd to passionately serious - much like most people have a range of modalities with their friends. I've seen you post outside the confines of a thread many a time - and in fact I complimented you on that very fact. The fact that you have chosen to champion the cause of this thread in particular is therefore somewhat arbitrary to me. You could have let the brief 3 line quip go and allowed the discussion to proceed, but you made it your life mission to set things right. I would argue you have done more to derail this thread than anyone else has by your sheer doggedness and inability to accept what what actually a harmless throwaway line. Forest for the trees and all that jazz...

In pretty much every thread there are a few silly, joking posts. People don't generally let it overtake the thread's intention. I advise you to learn to let those little distractions go and focus on the broader issue. Your statements about what interests people these days were rather melodramatic, imo. There is the same basic thing going on here as there always was. Civilization is not declining in the way you fear. In short - don't sweat the small stuff.
Posted By: sophial

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 08/30/14 09:10 PM

Yes, some lightening up would do us all good.
"Fridolin" sounds to me like a brand of cheese spread, perhaps in white plastic containers with pictures of mountain goats on them... or maybe dwarves .. grin
Posted By: A454.7

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 08/30/14 09:24 PM

Reminds me of a Freto-eating-violinist.
Posted By: Minnesota Marty

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 08/30/14 09:48 PM

Isn't the Fredolin the successor of the Fredo da gamba?
Posted By: malkin

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 08/31/14 05:39 AM

Originally Posted by ando
Originally Posted by Minnesota Marty
I'm still trying to figure out who Adno and Andren are.
Me too Marty, this thread is giving me an identity crisis...


You could try changing your name to Fridolin.
Posted By: ando

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 08/31/14 08:12 AM

Originally Posted by malkin
Originally Posted by ando
Originally Posted by Minnesota Marty
I'm still trying to figure out who Adno and Andren are.
Me too Marty, this thread is giving me an identity crisis...


You could try changing your name to Fridolin.
I could, but I'm afraid that this thread might turn me
into Fritolay...
Posted By: Minnesota Marty

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 08/31/14 01:49 PM

Wouldn't you become a Fridolay?

Actually, Fridoly, or even better, Fridola, would be a great name for a player piano.

Please keep in mind that he was known as Fred in the USA.

"Fridolin" never appeared on his pianos.
Posted By: Carey

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 08/31/14 02:26 PM

Originally Posted by Minnesota Marty
Please keep in mind that he was known as Fred in the USA. "Fridolin" never appeared on his pianos.
I vote for Frederic Schimmel !! grin
Posted By: Rickster

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 09/01/14 03:11 PM

I’m glad to see the humor in this thread, but I hate to see the snarkiness… However, we are all human and I’m not always in a good mood myself.

Just something to think about…

Rick
Posted By: Minnesota Marty

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 09/01/14 03:38 PM

Reading back through this thread, I was struck by this statement:

Originally Posted by Retsacnal
I think a group of entrepreneurs who put together a new design and build it in a new facility could claim to be a "new brand," and it would be cool to see, but I doubt it would happen.

Cunningham immediately came to mind.

This is a good thing.
Posted By: sophial

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 09/01/14 04:32 PM

While it might seem like frivolous frittering and frippery, if I were Schimmel I'd be a little concerned about the response to the brand name of "Fridolin". It's almost as if we just had an informal focus group on the question "What do you think of when you hear the name 'Fridolin' ?" If I were a piano manufacturer, I would not want to be conjuring up dwarves, hobbits or cheeses... of course, this might be very different in other countries, particularly German-speaking ones.

Just think if this question had come up when the name "Fazioli" was being proposed! (Anybody for a plate of pasta e fazioli?) laugh
Posted By: Steve Cohen

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 09/01/14 05:16 PM

Originally Posted by sophial
While it might seem like frivolous frittering and frippery, if I were Schimmel I'd be a little concerned about the response to the brand name of "Fridolin". It's almost as if we just had an informal focus group on the question "What do you think of when you hear the name 'Fridolin' ?" If I were a piano manufacturer, I would not want to be conjuring up dwarves, hobbits or cheeses... of course, this might be very different in other countries, particularly German-speaking ones.


Were they a client, I would have advised another name and a new marketing strategy.
Posted By: turandot

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 09/02/14 04:51 AM

Originally Posted by Almaviva
that means that Schimmel will now have FIVE piano lines. Or will this new "Fridolin" line replace either the Schimmel International line, the Wilhelm Schimmel line, or both of them?


Yes, they will have five.

In order of descending price

Schimmel Konzert Made in Germany seal applied

Schimmel Classic Made in Germany seal applied

Schimmel International Made in Germany seal applied; brand new series, 4 verticals, two grands

Wilhelm Schimmel Made in Europe seal applied; actually manufactured at Schimmel's factory in Kalisz, Poland that manufactured the Vogel

Fridolin by Schimmel, no seal, modest claims, new series, but not as new as Internationl, OEM, two verticals and two grands

I woudl guess that Schimmel is hedging its bets on the Fridolin and not ordering a ton of them. Entry-level OEM lines don't always have a long lifespan. Sometimes they disappear quietly.

If you're thinking five lines is a bit much, I agree with you.

Originally Posted by Sophial
if I were Schimmel I'd be a little concerned about the response to the brand name of "Fridolin". It's almost as if we just had an informal focus group on the question "What do you think of when you hear the name 'Fridolin' ?"


If Schimmel did test the name on a focus group, naturally they would choose people from their market focus group, people who were likely to buy a lower cost piano. That would not include any of those here who voiced strong disapproval of the name, the piano, the marketing, the thread title, the concept of dumbed down entry level, and even the concept of a price point, for goodness sake.

People who want to buy a low cost piano are drawn by the appearance, the sound, and the salesmn'a skills at presenting the piano. Of course if they play the piano, they'll consider the action as well.

The only names that resonate with prospective buyers of new low cost pianos are Kawai's name on its stuff from Indonesia and Yamaha's name on its stuff from China and Indonesia.

Fridolin may not be a great name, but Fridolin by Schimmel sounds as good to me as Essex by Steinway. I can remember when Essex debuted, there were many cracks about how Steinway should have called it SX by Steinway or SEX by Steinway. Yet Steinway made it work with good marketing and improvements in the instruments.

Posted By: Retsacnal

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 09/02/14 06:00 AM

  • Schimmelchen?
  • Schimmellein?
  • Schimmelke des Fridi?
Posted By: turandot

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 09/02/14 12:35 PM

[quote=Retsacnal][List][*]Schimmelchen? [*]Schimmellein? [*]Schimmelke des Fridi?[/list] [/quote] Are you trying to say something or just looking for attention?
Posted By: sophial

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 09/02/14 03:48 PM

Turandot,

I have to disagree with you that name is not as relevant for the "low cost" buyer. Branding is an important part of marketing at all levels, otherwise why would advertisers put so much money into it? I wouldn't have picked "Essex" as a first choice brand name either, but it has a kind of Anglo-Saxon aristocratic association to it (Errol Flynn played the Earl of Essex- not bad) and it's easily legible and pronounceable. "Fridolin" on the other hand is not as easily legible or immediately understandable-- is it a name? a noun? where does the accent go? long or short vowels? And we've already discussed the associations it conjures. I hope I'm wrong but I think this might not be a good idea on Schimmel's part.
Posted By: Glenn Treibitz

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 09/02/14 04:13 PM

This name discussion my be moot because I've been told the initial sell through nationwide and end customer response has been strong and beyond expectations.
Posted By: turandot

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 09/03/14 07:00 PM

Originally Posted by sophial


I have to disagree with you that name is not as relevant for the "low cost" buyer. Branding is an important part of marketing at all levels, otherwise why would advertisers put so much money into it? I wouldn't have picked "Essex" as a first choice brand name either, but it has a kind of Anglo-Saxon aristocratic association to it (Errol Flynn played the Earl of Essex- not bad) and it's easily legible and pronounceable. "Fridolin" on the other hand is not as easily legible or immediately understandable-- is it a name? a noun? where does the accent go? long or short vowels? And we've already discussed the associations it conjures. I hope I'm wrong but I think this might not be a good idea on Schimmel's part.


Sophia,

It's always a pleasure to swap notes with you and I mean that. I will happily concede that he name could be relevant in that given a choice between two unfamiliar names, the consumer would probably like one more than the other, regardless of the level or the cost of the product.

The point I was making is that there are no names that resonate at the low end except for the budget models of Yamaha and Kawai. Everything else is neutral. Nothing other than those two will instill confidence in the typical low end shopper -- unless and until he educates himself further.

I'll also concede that Fridolin is not necessarily a good name, but bear in mind that the low cost piano shopper without a familiar name from which to draw confidence will likely be dealing with subconscious penetration of the product name, rather than conscious questions about how Fridolin fits historically into the Schimmel family tree, and whether he deserves to have a piano named for him.

Now to dance on the head of a pin for a moment grin, let me suggest that the three syllable sequence of [ fri doh lin ] with its soft comfotable consonants framing its [ i o i ] vowel pattern, sounds equally mellifluous and poetic whether you stress the first syllable or the last. Try it! You'll like it! grin

The only unpleasant pattern would be to put the stress on the second syllalbe [ fri doh lin]. That does not sound good, and would be an egregious error by the sales pro in his presentation of the piano.

On the other hand, [ess eks] with it hard harsh consonants is not fun at all, downright unmusical and unpoetic in fact. The subconscious penetration may well induce a severe headahce. The [ks] cluster ends the name abruptly and prematurely, leaving the consumer with the thought: "That's it? That's all you've got? You've got to be kidding me!" unless the consumer happens to be a fan of vinatage Errol Flynn film roles. grin

Should the salespro happen to reduce the first syllable as a way of gliding into a stressed second syllable [es seks], the error would not only be egregious, but downright immoral. The only thing he could do to salvage the situation at that point would be to quickly add "by Steinway". grin

Jumping down from the pinhead, I think the piano will stand or fall on what it is, where it can be seen, what it looks like, and what it costs, and that most of the negative branding comments here in this thread came from an elitist stance not normally associated with low cost pianos.
Posted By: sophial

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 09/04/14 03:16 AM



Turandot,
And always a pleasure for me as well, even if we agree to disagree.
There are always associations to brand names, even if they are not explicit, as we found out with the spontaneous outpouring of dwarf, hobbit and cheese comments in response to "Fridolin". They likely have to do with words that the name evokes, rather than just the sound of the consonants and vowel patterns. All that aside, I hope I'm wrong and wish Schimmel well with their new venture. Good to have you around here again. smile

Sophia
Posted By: BornInTheUSA

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 09/04/14 06:49 AM

Originally Posted by turandot

Should the salespro happen to reduce the first syllable as a way of gliding into a stressed second syllable [es seks], the error would not only be egregious, but downright immoral. The only thing he could do to salvage the situation at that point would be to quickly add "by Steinway". grin


It seems like a big part of the sales training will be on how to pronounce Fridolin. But problem is, consumers are probably going to see the brand a bit before and already decide on a pronunciation and associate it with hobbits, cheese...for me, I pictured the character Gollum from Lord of the Rings. Not sure why.

Reminds me of when I was talking to a sales person over the phone about Hailun, which I didn't know about at the time. He pronounced it like "Highland" and that's what I imagined the spelling would be. He was upfront about it's Chinese origins so I pictured a brand that was named after geographical features, which isn't uncommon with Chinese companies. But I believe it's pronounced "high loon," no?

Anyway, if I were to guess the success of this brand, I don't see it taking much marketshare and that name might not help. There seems to be a flood of Chinese/Euro pianos with Roslau strings and Strungz soundboards to the point where it's almost cheapened those components - and all made by the same factories. But if Schimmel can control inventory they might improve their bottom line and get into the Chinese/Euro piano game.

[Linked Image]
Posted By: Grandman

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 09/04/14 07:49 AM

Originally Posted by michaelha
Originally Posted by turandot

Should the salespro happen to reduce the first syllable as a way of gliding into a stressed second syllable [es seks], the error would not only be egregious, but downright immoral. The only thing he could do to salvage the situation at that point would be to quickly add "by Steinway". grin


There seems to be a flood of Chinese/Euro pianos with Roslau strings and Strungz soundboards to the point where it's almost cheapened those components - and all made by the same factories. But if Schimmel can control inventory they might improve their bottom line and get into the Chinese/Euro piano game.



Quite the opposite. Quality components don't "cheapen" themselves by being used in lesser known instruments. Rather, they improve the quality of those instruments which, in turn, makes it better for the consumer.
Posted By: turandot

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 09/04/14 03:06 PM

Originally Posted by michaelha
Originally Posted by turandot

Should the salespro happen to reduce the first syllable as a way of gliding into a stressed second syllable [es seks], the error would not only be egregious, but downright immoral. The only thing he could do to salvage the situation at that point would be to quickly add "by Steinway". grin


It seems like a big part of the sales training will be on how to pronounce Fridolin. But problem is, consumers are probably going to see the brand a bit before and already decide on a pronunciation and associate it with hobbits, cheese...for me, I pictured the character Gollum from Lord of the Rings. Not sure why.


Please understand that I was just needling Sophia with that Essex send up. She's an avid fan of Steinway's premium brand. Classy person that she is, she took the needling in stride and stayed with her point, which is a good one.

I still have no idea why, but the page views cited for this thread now stand at 26,000. It just doesn't seem right, but maybe it proves once again that when Steve speaks, everyone listens. grin

Assuming that the number is correct, we could presume that among the thousands who read Steve's opener, a percentage were already familiar with Fridolin cheese, and that a percentage already had in mind a prior connection (I don't know exactly why) to hobbits and dwarfs. I had no prior connection of any kind. I was the tabula rasa, so in my case, the name, attached itself to me as a piano brand name. I had a flash in my mind about some large bodied soprano diva like Birgit Nilsson beginning a tragic aria with [Free doh leen] as she knelt next to her fallen lover Fridolin. But that was just a flash.

There must be a significant percentage of page viewers like me who, with no previous familiarity with the name Fridolin, first read Steve's post connecting it to a piano, and then read the loose references to cheese, hobbits, and dwarfs. It would be interesting to know what image won out in their minds. Food imagery can be powerful, as can imagery of strange frightening creatures. Dwarfs should not be frightening. I know a married dwarf couple who are small, but perfectly normal people. I'm guessing the dwarf reference must be to the Middle Earth dwarfs of German mythology.

At this point I have no particular desire to sample the cheese and no interest in spending my time on books or movies that tap German mythology. I do have an urge to get my fingers on a Fridolin piano if one appears in my local market. Until that happens, I'll make no judgment about what Schimmel has done with Del's piano.
Posted By: ando

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 09/04/14 04:30 PM

Originally Posted by turandot
Originally Posted by michaelha
Originally Posted by turandot

Should the salespro happen to reduce the first syllable as a way of gliding into a stressed second syllable [es seks], the error would not only be egregious, but downright immoral. The only thing he could do to salvage the situation at that point would be to quickly add "by Steinway". grin


It seems like a big part of the sales training will be on how to pronounce Fridolin. But problem is, consumers are probably going to see the brand a bit before and already decide on a pronunciation and associate it with hobbits, cheese...for me, I pictured the character Gollum from Lord of the Rings. Not sure why.


Please understand that I was just needling Sophia with that Essex send up. She's an avid fan of Steinway's premium brand. Classy person that she is, she took the needling in stride and stayed with her point, which is a good one.

I still have no idea why, but the page views cited for this thread now stand at 26,000. It just doesn't seem right, but maybe it proves once again that when Steve speaks, everyone listens. grin

Assuming that the number is correct, we could presume that among the thousands who read Steve's opener, a percentage were already familiar with Fridolin cheese, and that a percentage already had in mind a prior connection (I don't know exactly why) to hobbits and dwarfs. I had no prior connection of any kind. I was the tabula rasa, so in my case, the name, attached itself to me as a piano brand name. I had a flash in my mind about some large bodied soprano diva like Birgit Nilsson beginning a tragic aria with [Free doh leen] as she knelt next to her fallen lover Fridolin. But that was just a flash.

There must be a significant percentage of page viewers like me who, with no previous familiarity with the name Fridolin, first read Steve's post connecting it to a piano, and then read the loose references to cheese, hobbits, and dwarfs. It would be interesting to know what image won out in their minds. Food imagery can be powerful, as can imagery of strange frightening creatures. Dwarfs should not be frightening. I know a married dwarf couple who are small, but perfectly normal people. I'm guessing the dwarf reference must be to the Middle Earth dwarfs of German mythology.

At this point I have no particular desire to sample the cheese and no interest in spending my time on books or movies that tap German mythology. I do have an urge to get my fingers on a Fridolin piano if one appears in my local market. Until that happens, I'll make no judgment about what Schimmel has done with Del's piano.


Geez man, let it rest! You're in an imaginary battle with yourself at this point.
Posted By: Rickster

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 09/04/14 05:11 PM

It seems that this thread has garnered a lot of views and a lot of interest, for whatever reason…

Let’s not provoke each other in an effort to get our points across, if we can help it.

Rick
Posted By: 88 Fingers Jeff

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 09/04/14 05:14 PM

Originally Posted by turandot
There must be a significant percentage of page viewers like me who, with no previous familiarity with the name Fridolin, first read Steve's post connecting it to a piano, and then read the loose references to cheese, hobbits, and dwarfs. It would be interesting to know what image won out in their minds.


Turandot, like you I had no familiarity with the name Fridolin, and no notions of hobbits, cheese, etc. Once the conversation turned humorous, the name Frito Lay came to mind (which I believe was eventually mentioned by someone), and I was hearing the Frito Bandito song in my head for a while (to those unfamiliar, from an old American television commercial back in the '60s and '70s, and sung to the tune Cielito Lindo -- the commercial would certainly be considered too stereotypical today).

Even that connection faded from my mind, but the name does sound uninspiring to me. On the other hand, I'm not searching for a mid-level piano, which (correct me if I'm wrong please) is my understanding of what this is supposed to be.
Posted By: JohnSprung

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 09/04/14 05:50 PM

Even the biggest of the big sometimes screw up naming products. The classic example is General Motors. They had a car called the Chevy Nova, and surprise, it didn't do well in the Spanish language market. ;-)

Posted By: turandot

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 09/04/14 05:50 PM

Originally Posted by 88 Fingers Jeff
I'm not searching for a mid-level piano, which (correct me if I'm wrong please) is my understanding of what this is supposed to be.


Jeff,

It's actually aimed at the so-called entry level, which is pretty crowded already, but Frito Bandito / Cielito Lindo works equally well with any level. smile
Posted By: BruceD

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 09/04/14 06:45 PM

Originally Posted by turandot
[...]On the other hand, [ess eks] with it hard harsh consonants is not fun at all, downright unmusical and unpoetic in fact. The subconscious penetration may well induce a severe headahce. The [ks] cluster ends the name abruptly and prematurely, leaving the consumer with the thought: "That's it? That's all you've got? You've got to be kidding me!" unless the consumer happens to be a fan of vinatage Errol Flynn film roles. grin
[...]


I wonder if they thought of "Essexstein"? - Too many consonant clusters, perhaps, but pronounceable. smile

Regards,
Posted By: BornInTheUSA

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 09/04/14 07:39 PM

Originally Posted by Grandman

Quite the opposite. Quality components don't "cheapen" themselves by being used in lesser known instruments. Rather, they improve the quality of those instruments which, in turn, makes it better for the consumer.


I know that's the intent, but given that almost all the pianos coming from China have a similar checklist of components, the rarity factor sort of goes away.
Posted By: AJF

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 09/05/14 06:22 AM

I'm just 'guesstimating' that North America in 2014 is probably one of the world's smaller piano markets so maybe Schimmel has little concern for how we interpret/receive the name of a new piano. If I were a piano maker in 2014 I'd be far more concerned about how the instrument will be received in Asian markets where the instruments are still selling well.
If I'm incorrect in this assumption I'm sure someone 'in the know' will eagerly and promptly correct my misinformation.
Posted By: Grandman

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 09/05/14 09:43 AM

Originally Posted by AJF
I'm just 'guesstimating' that North America in 2014 is probably one of the world's smaller piano markets so maybe Schimmel has little concern for how we interpret/receive the name of a new piano. If I were a piano maker in 2014 I'd be far more concerned about how the instrument will be received in Asian markets where the instruments are still selling well.
If I'm incorrect in this assumption I'm sure someone 'in the know' will eagerly and promptly correct my misinformation.


This makes sense. I'm not sure how much we really matter in the grand scheme of things.
Posted By: AJF

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 09/05/14 02:35 PM

Or the 'upright' scheme of things either :-P
Posted By: Del

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 09/05/14 03:59 PM

Originally Posted by AJF
I'm just 'guesstimating' that North America in 2014 is probably one of the world's smaller piano markets so maybe Schimmel has little concern for how we interpret/receive the name of a new piano. If I were a piano maker in 2014 I'd be far more concerned about how the instrument will be received in Asian markets where the instruments are still selling well.
If I'm incorrect in this assumption I'm sure someone 'in the know' will eagerly and promptly correct my misinformation.

The North American piano market, as a whole, is now one of the smaller markets. It is one of the larger grand piano markets, however.

I doubt the Schimmel family will be overly worried about how a few Piano Forum members ridiculing the given name of one of their ancestors will affect their business. They might feel personally insulted but that is another issue.

In Asia the name will be perceived as German -- what more need be said?

ddf
Posted By: turandot

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 09/05/14 05:31 PM

Originally Posted by AJF
I'm just 'guesstimating' that North America in 2014 is probably one of the world's smaller piano markets


(not offered as a correction grin)

I think Schimmel might be keeping a close eye on Toronto for an early indicator of market reception.

You mayt be able to greet and meet one or more of Fridolin's progeny if you visit Robert Lowrey's place. Best to call first though to confirm and make a reservation. Avoid any references to dumbed-down piannos.
Posted By: Carey

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 09/05/14 06:43 PM

Originally Posted by Del
In Asia the name will be perceived as German -- what more need be said?

Point well taken !! thumb

Posted By: JayGVan

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 09/06/14 07:23 PM

Originally Posted by turandot
Originally Posted by AJF
I'm just 'guesstimating' that North America in 2014 is probably one of the world's smaller piano markets


(not offered as a correction grin)

I think Schimmel might be keeping a close eye on Toronto for an early indicator of market reception.

You mayt be able to greet and meet one or more of Fridolin's progeny if you visit Robert Lowrey's place. Best to call first though to confirm and make a reservation. Avoid any references to dumbed-down piannos.


I'll be there the 3rd week of September. And will be sure, if I can get my hands on one, to give it a solid working over.

Jay
Posted By: chernobieff

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 09/16/14 02:57 AM

New pictures of the Schimmel-Nelson piano factory!
http://antiquepianoemporium.com/schimmel-nelson-2/
Posted By: Minnesota Marty

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 09/16/14 03:02 AM

Chris,

Are you carrying Fridolin pianos? Do you have the answers to the questions asked in this thread?
Posted By: turandot

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 09/16/14 07:16 PM

Originally Posted by Minnesota Marty
Chris,

Are you carrying Fridolin pianos? Do you have the answers to the questions asked in this thread?


I don't recall any unanswered questions about Schimmel's new budget line.

Refresh my memory.
Posted By: Minnesota Marty

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 09/16/14 08:48 PM

Originally Posted by turandot
Originally Posted by Minnesota Marty
Chris,

Are you carrying Fridolin pianos? Do you have the answers to the questions asked in this thread?


I don't recall any unanswered questions about Schimmel's new budget line.

Refresh my memory.

The question which hasn't been answered is whether this is a newly designed piano or merely a renaming of an existing design.

Originally Posted by PianoWorksATL
For clarification because my previous post may not have been clear, at NAMM and at the National PTG convention, the introduction of Fridolin consisted of swapping the fallboard from a new Weber. Literally, inside the piano with a Fridolin fallboard was the same Weber soundboard decal as if the swap was last minute. If more differentiation is on the horizon, then those details would be helpful, but for now, compare to Del's Webers.
Posted By: turandot

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 09/16/14 10:51 PM

Originally Posted by Minnesota Marty

The question which hasn't been answered is whether this is a newly designed piano or merely a renaming of an existing design.


Well, given Sam's anecdote about interchangeable fallboards thumb that you quoted, other information on the thread, and the way the industry works, I think you'll be waiting indefinitely for a new design.

I'd suggest assuming to be true whichever answer pleases you more as a way of getting past your concerns, assuming you have concerns.

Asking a retailer who sells exotic items like the Mammoth if he stocks the Fridolin line is not likely to be productive.
Posted By: Minnesota Marty

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 09/16/14 11:02 PM

Turandot,

Thank you for your critique of my question and your disregard of my curiosity about the piano. Schimmel is a fine builder and I have interest in new models introduced by the top level builders.

I would assume that dealers would have more information available to them and might be able to offer more specifics on the Fridolin line. I don't know if that dealer carries them, or not, and that is why I asked.

Do you have more information?
Posted By: turandot

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 09/16/14 11:28 PM

Originally Posted by Minnesota Marty
Turandot,


Do you have more information?


Well yeah, but I don't think it will please you. You state that your interest has been piqued by your estimation that Schimmel is a fine builder, and Schimmel didn't build this piano. I hope that you can get past that without losing faith in Schimmel as a fine builder.
Posted By: Minnesota Marty

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 09/16/14 11:42 PM

I am perfectly aware that Schimmel doesn't build the piano. I am aware that it is built in China. However, that doesn't exclude Schimmel from being the designer. Or, it may only be a stencil of Del's Weber.

S&S doesn't build the Boston or Essex either. But, they designed them. The introductions of those pianos were of major interest to piano aficionados.

I cannot understand why you can't accept the fact that I would like to know more about the instrument.
Posted By: turandot

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 09/17/14 01:36 AM

Originally Posted by Minnesota Marty


I cannot understand why you can't accept the fact that I would like to know more about the instrument.


Okay. I'll assume your interest is legitimate and that the information on the thread still leaves you in doubt about your question. All I can say is what I said before, that in that case, you'll need to wait and the wait may be considerable.

This venture does not involve a huge order of pianos. It is a trial balloon. The only dealer in N.A. who is currently listing inventory is in Canada. Schimmel has not supplied a marketing blurb, so he is using the one from the Keyboard magazine article that announced the piano and embellishing on it. The original begins.....

"Solid workmanship and an exquisite choice of materials make this a very desirable piano......"

He has embellished it to read:

Solid workmanship, an exquisite choice of materials, and experienced piano craftsman guarantees a truly European sound experience.

This is not the way that any fine builder brings to market a piano at any market level that it has in fact designed. That's not the way it works in the industry. You don't start your blurb with "solid workmanship".

If neither the information on the thread nor the type of marketing that is being done leads you to the answer to your own question, then you'll just need to wait.

My guess is that with a favorable market response to the trial balloon, Schimmel could find some way to differentiate future orders from standard Webers if they choose to order more. It could involve the type of prep they suggest to their dealers who stock the Fridolin or minor cosmetic changes requested of Young Chang. It's possible, but very unlikely because of expense, that they could have them shipped to Germany for finishing before releasing them to the market. That's what they did when they first introduced the May Berlins, the line that Frdiolin is replacing. But i'ts pretty clear that Schimmel is not trying to re-invent the wheel here, and that makes sense. If a proven piano that Schimmel likes is available to fill a need at a cost that Schimmel likes, it eliminates a lot of potential disappointments that can occur with OEM.

Posted By: Minnesota Marty

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 09/17/14 02:25 AM

Turandot,

I understand all you have stated very well.

You asked me a question, and I responded.

A dealer linked to his sales site which had all of the canned info about the Fridolin. That would tend to indicate that it was a line he carried, however, it was not listed in his webpage lineup. So, I simply asked him. He has yet to answer and in his place you have chosen to scold me for a simple question. Now you are giving me a lecture on company marketing techniques and telling nothing which hasn't been said previously.

If the dealer is stocking the piano, he would be able to provide some answers to our questions.

Get It. - Got It? - Good!
Posted By: beethoven986

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 09/17/14 03:44 AM

Originally Posted by Minnesota Marty
I am perfectly aware that Schimmel doesn't build the piano. I am aware that it is built in China. However, that doesn't exclude Schimmel from being the designer. Or, it may only be a stencil of Del's Weber....I cannot understand why you can't accept the fact that I would like to know more about the instrument.


FWIW, I saw the 6' model at the PTG convention, in Atlanta. Many of the design features of that piano suggested to me that it was designed by Del. These features included a rather substantial curved bass cut-off bar, treble 'fish' cut-off bar, long back scale length, and short front duplex. I may be forgetting a few, but it's been a while! Very transparent bass/benor crossover and clean treble (in a good way). Del has written about and advocated for such design features in his writings for a long time, and incorporated them into his rebuilding work, though other designers do, as well. There may be some subtle differences, but I am pretty sure these are essentially the same as the entry level Weber. I hope this helps answer your question. It was a very nice piano.
Posted By: turandot

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 09/17/14 04:09 AM

Originally Posted by Minnesota Marty

A dealer linked to his sales site which had all of the canned info about the Fridolin.
Get It. - Got It? - Good!


I must have missed that. Could you provide the link?
Posted By: Minnesota Marty

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 09/17/14 01:13 PM

Originally Posted by chernobieff
New pictures of the Schimmel-Nelson piano factory!
http://antiquepianoemporium.com/schimmel-nelson-2/
Posted By: PhilipInChina

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 09/17/14 02:10 PM

Would that place in Minnesota be anywhere near you?
Posted By: Minnesota Marty

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 09/17/14 02:38 PM

Philip,

What place in Minnesota?
Posted By: Troy 125

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 09/17/14 02:57 PM

Guessing the one mentioned in the first paragraph of the link you provided
Posted By: Minnesota Marty

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 09/17/14 03:30 PM

Though Faribault Minnesota exists, the Schimmel Piano Company in that location does not. Thus, a road trip is not even in consideration, even though it's only about an hours drive. It would be much more fun to go to nearby Northfield and enjoy the great musical activities at St. Olaf College.
Posted By: turandot

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 09/17/14 05:02 PM

Originally Posted by Minnesota Marty
Turandot,

A dealer linked to his sales site which had all of the canned info about the Fridolin. .

Originally Posted By: chernobieff
New pictures of the Schimmel-Nelson piano factory!
http://antiquepianoemporium.com/schimmel-nelson-2/
_________________________
Get It. - Got It? - Good!


When you wrote that the link had information about the Fridolin, I assumed you meant the Fridolin piano, not Fridolin the person. It's unusual to refer to a person as the __________

Anyway, you needn't think I was scolding you. I thought (and still think) your question about whether Schimmel had designed the piano was answered to a reasonable degree of certainty on the thread, at least for the time being.

You have a tendency to ask a question and then, when an answer is supplied, retort that you were perfectly aware of that or that you understood all that already, which leads to the question of why the devil you're asking the question in the first place.

"Perfectly aware" is a very high standard. i don't think I've been perfectly aware of anything in my entire life.

On the other hand, the link is interesting in its own right, and it nudged this old turkey over the 30,000 page view threshold. How that can be right is still incomprehensible to me,but like I mentioned, I don't have perfect awareness.



But thanks for the link. In my left-Coast ignorance I had though the only thing in Faribault was a wooleln mill.
Posted By: Minnesota Marty

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 09/17/14 09:06 PM

I did mean the piano. I went to the site thinking there was more info. There wasn't. I asked the owner of the site if he had further info. Most can understand the process.

Originally Posted by turandot
In my left-Coast ignorance I had though the only thing in Faribault was a wooleln mill.


What is a wooleln mill?
Posted By: ando

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 09/17/14 09:14 PM

Originally Posted by Minnesota Marty


What is a wooleln mill?


Something to do with sorting wheat from chaff. I think Adno and Adrean work there.. wink
Posted By: turandot

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 09/17/14 10:26 PM

I don't know if you two are distinguishing yourselves by picking on a typo, but if it fulfills an inner need, I guess it's harmless. I bought a blanket at the Faribulat Woolen Mill factory store several years ago. It's pretty nice.
Posted By: ando

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 09/18/14 01:10 AM

Originally Posted by turandot
I don't know if you two are distinguishing yourselves by picking on a typo, but if it fulfills an inner need, I guess it's harmless.


There's really no room for a joke in your world, is there?
Posted By: Retsacnal

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 09/18/14 04:57 AM

Originally Posted by ando
Originally Posted by turandot
I don't know if you two are distinguishing yourselves by picking on a typo, but if it fulfills an inner need, I guess it's harmless.


There's really no room for a joke in your world, is there?


Oh, ando, you don't get it... Turandot's allowed to make jokes; it's just that the rest of us aren't. At least in this thread. Apparently policing this one fulfills an inner need, and he's appointed himself an honorary moderator.

In fact, I was really getting nervous until I read the comment below:

Originally Posted by turandot
Originally Posted by Minnesota Marty
I cannot understand why you can't accept the fact that I would like to know more about the instrument.

Okay. I'll assume your interest is legitimate...

By that point, there was probably a SWAT team assembling outside Marty's house! Thanks, Tur, for issuing them the order to stand down. wink

All un-approved joking aside, I really see an obsession with this thread--for example, a quick review of his posts shows that it's almost the only thread he's posted in for nearly a month! And when I say "posted," I mean posted and posted and posted!

The vigilantism would be offensive, if it weren't just so pathetic. All-in-all, I guess it's harmless...

It's clear that Turandot has some sort of "connection" with this topic, and feels compelled to take "ownership" of it. In all seriousness, I have a question for him. I want to put it in his own words, so that there'll be no misunderstanding:

Originally Posted by turandot
Are you trying to say something or just looking for attention?

Posted By: Rickster

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 09/18/14 11:40 AM

I thought this thread was about a new piano brand coming?

I hope we can keep it OT (on topic) and not divert attention to individual PW members.

Rick
Posted By: PhilipInChina

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 09/18/14 11:45 AM

Originally Posted by Rickster
I thought this thread was about a new piano brand coming?

I hope we can keep it OT (on topic) and not divert attention to individual PW members.

Rick


+1
Posted By: Retsacnal

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 09/20/14 06:36 PM

Originally Posted by PhilipInChina
Originally Posted by Rickster
I thought this thread was about a new piano brand coming?

I hope we can keep it OT (on topic) and not divert attention to individual PW members.

Rick


+1


I get it... I have no more business "policing" this thread than anyone else does.

I'd delete my post above, but the edit link is gone now.

I apologize to anyone who was offended by my post above.
Posted By: JayGVan

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 09/27/14 10:57 PM

Well as potentially the ONLY person on the Piano World Forum to have played two of the Fridolin Grands, I can say the 185 is a FANTASTIC instrument that really spoke to me. It allowed me to pull every dynamic out of it at first play, and I was very very very impressed. The 157 for its size has an outstanding tonal range and power, and I enjoyed it too. But the 185. WOW. It was the first piano I sat at when I walked in the store this morning. And I didn't get up for a long while. So, I would say that Steve Cohen could amend the thread title to be "A New Piano Brand is Here, and its really good value. And worth checking out." Jay
Posted By: JayGVan

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 09/27/14 11:06 PM

Oh and if Anyone cares, the Fallboard on the bottom right corner reads "Selected by Schimmel" And whatever that means, it doesn't matter. The pianos are all VERY nice. Soundboard is stamped "Fridolin" the Plate has "Fridloin" branding. And all that means zero, zilch, nada if the instrument didn't sing. And the 185 Grand did. Muchly. Hugely. An impressive instrument that was priced just under 20K CAD if I recall correctly. Jay
Posted By: Del

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 09/28/14 12:23 AM

Originally Posted by Jay Roland
Well as potentially the ONLY person on the Piano World Forum to have played two of the Fridolin Grands, I can say the 185 is a FANTASTIC instrument that really spoke to me. It allowed me to pull every dynamic out of it at first play, and I was very very very impressed. The 157 for its size has an outstanding tonal range and power, and I enjoyed it too.

But the 185. WOW. It was the first piano I sat at when I walked in the store this morning. And I didn't get up for a long while.

So, I would say that Steve Cohen could amend the thread title to be "A New Piano Brand is Here, and its really good value. And worth checking out."

Jay

Do you mind if I quote you on that? (I'm not selling the pianos, nor do I make any commission on their sale but, obviously, I do have an interest...)

ddf
Posted By: turandot

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 09/28/14 02:12 PM

Jay Roland:

"Oh and if Anyone cares, the Fallboard on the bottom right corner reads "Selected by Schimmel"

And whatever that means, it doesn't matter. The pianos are all VERY nice. Soundboard is stamped "Fridolin" the Plate has "Fridloin" branding."




"Selected by Schimmel" seems to me to be a fair description of a piano that a European maker chooses to fill a niche in its product line that it is ill-equipped to furnish from its own factory production at equal cost. The fact that the piano was chosen from a large number of alternatives is a compliment to Hyundai, Young Chang, and of course to Del, who suggested a while back that it just might be possible that Schimmel chose the piano on its merits.

Kudos to Del as well for remaining silent until all the ignorance and posturing on this thread ran its course.

Jay, Thanks for the review.
Posted By: Retsacnal

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 09/28/14 04:46 PM

Has the posturing really run its course? That's an ironic posture...
Posted By: JayGVan

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 09/28/14 04:46 PM

Del, Quote away.

Maybe leave the "Roland" out of it for me. I don't believe that there's any political entanglements here, but I'm a cautious soul.

Jay

Posted By: Del

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 09/29/14 12:40 AM

Originally Posted by Jay Roland
Del, Quote away.

Maybe leave the "Roland" out of it for me. I don't believe that there's any political entanglements here, but I'm a cautious soul.

Jay

Thanks. I understand.

ddf
Posted By: DallasJazz

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 10/06/15 04:18 PM

Originally Posted by Minnesota Marty


One of the few giraffes that I have played was a Schimmel-Nelson at the National Music Museum in South Dakota. Well, it was old and tall and didn't speak German, or even 'Sotan, eh?



This raises a number of questions, the first being, "Marty, have you played more than one giraffe?"

I've never even seen a giraffe outside of a zoo. The mtr.arcade-museum.com pictures I've seen are intriguing, though.

I would love to see what the action looks like. I'm imagining a drop action like a spinet, but extended to strike the strings way down near the pedals, where I imagine the pin block must also be. Does anyone know?
Posted By: Retsacnal

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming - 10/06/15 06:54 PM

Originally Posted by DallasJazz
Originally Posted by Minnesota Marty


One of the few giraffes that I have played was a Schimmel-Nelson at the National Music Museum in South Dakota. Well, it was old and tall and didn't speak German, or even 'Sotan, eh?



This raises a number of questions, the first being, "Marty, have you played more than one giraffe?"


Welcome to PW, DallasJazz.

Don't look for an answer from Marty. Sadly, he passed away almost a year ago. You can read about him in this thread:
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