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Please Help with my Schiedmayer

Posted By: amelia k

Please Help with my Schiedmayer - 11/04/08 03:19 AM

Hello,

I'm new to the forum and relatively new to the world of pianos. I'm hoping I might get some advice on pricing and selling my Schiedmayer. It is a 7'3" model B grand piano, ebonized case, serial #124517. I believe it may have been built in 1969 or soon thereafter. It was purchased new by my family and has been played very little. It has never been refurbished and is believed by the regular piano tuner to be in excellent condition.

In spite of the gracious advice of Steve Cohen I've not been able to interest local dealers, so, also at Steve's suggestion, am thinking of listing on the internet. The piano has had a recent appraisal for estate purposes of $30,000, but other than the tuner's notion that it's worth closer to its original purchase price (approximately $75,000) I've been unable to track prices on comparable Schiedmayers. The dealers I spoke with weren't optimistic they could sell it at all. Any thoughts on what might be a reasonable and realistic asking price or other selling strategies?

Thanks very much. Pictures follow:

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image] [Linked Image]
Posted By: Supply

Re: Please Help with my Schiedmayer - 11/06/08 01:42 AM

I am sure it is a very fine piano, although I would be very surprised if the original price was anywhere near where you suggest.

Maybe you mean value of replacment with a new piano today...
In any case, the piano is almost 40 years old. Where are you located? Scheidmeyer is a fairly unknown brand in the US, that makes it harder to sell, especially a large ticket item. Add to that the current situation, where pianos are not moving very well... If you really want to sell you may be forced to reduce your price expectations.
Posted By: Marty Flinn

Re: Please Help with my Schiedmayer - 11/06/08 02:15 AM

J. & P. Schiedmayer, Stuttgart ended production in 1969 with serial numbers about 70000. Your serial number is materially higher than this. The Schiedmayer name was purchased by Kawai and used on some Kawai pianos distributed in Europe.

Schiedmayer & Soehne, also in Stuttgart, shows serial numbers that would match your estimated age, but this company is completely separate. Yours shows on the plate the J. & P. imprint.

You may have a Kawai produced instrument.

Pianos of this size back in the late 1960's would have sold for under $10000. A retail value in the So. Cal market would be under $10k in spite of the German cache. The market for used 7'+ grands that do not say Steinway & Sons on the front is very small in the U.S. Nearly non-existant for those with no brand name recodnition.
Posted By: amelia k

Re: Please Help with my Schiedmayer - 11/06/08 05:55 AM

Thanks to you both for the informative replies. The piano is in the Washington, D.C. area (Bethesda, Md.). And no, I don't actually know the original purchase price, only the family legend. I would be surprised if it was under $10,000, but anything is possible. It may well be moot anyway. I do know that the piano was sold within the family for $25,000 in 1996 after being appraised at that value by a reliable technician. As for my selling expectations, it's the sort of information you're providing that will help me set them. That the size and relatively unknown Schiedmayer label are problems echoes comments I've received from dealers. I guess I should try to find out if it is Kawai manufactured. Any tips on that? Is a Kawai product of lesser value? I should mention that I don't necessarily have to sell the piano at this time and could decide to postpone or look into donation.

Thanks again for the help,
Amelia
Posted By: schwammerl

Re: Please Help with my Schiedmayer - 11/06/08 06:45 AM

amelia k,

Perhaps that these two older threads might be interesting reading?

http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/1/12791.html

http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?/topic/1/12312.html

schwammerl.
Posted By: David-G

Re: Please Help with my Schiedmayer - 11/06/08 08:39 AM

A question to those that know:

Is it really possible that the piano might have been made by Kawai, even though it has "Schiedmayer Pianofortefabrik Stuttgart" embossed on the plate?
Posted By: Steve Cohen

Re: Please Help with my Schiedmayer - 11/06/08 03:41 PM

Quote
Originally posted by David-G:
A question to those that know:

Is it really possible that the piano might have been made by Kawai, even though it has "Schiedmayer Pianofortefabrik Stuttgart" embossed on the plate?
As Amelia has said, she and I have discussed her piano at length.

It is almost undoubtedly a fine hand-made German instrument. It was evaluated by a very highly regarded RPT who is familiar with high-end pianos.

It is a shame. I beleive that the piano is a Tier 1 instrument. However it lack of name recognition severely limits its market value.
Posted By: guest1013

Re: Please Help with my Schiedmayer - 11/06/08 04:54 PM

ameliak, Consider contacting the German Embassy, perhaps they can put you in touch with a target audience who already knows the brand, or other similar organizations that would be interested because of its origins.
Posted By: BDB

Re: Please Help with my Schiedmayer - 11/06/08 10:13 PM

Or try contacting Schiedmayer directly. Perhaps they have more information.
Posted By: amelia k

Re: Please Help with my Schiedmayer - 11/07/08 05:16 AM

Hello again,
This posting has been a really good experience. I'm grateful and pleased, and relieved of the burden of the dark unknown. I've gotten exactly what I needed in terms of more or less pinning down the beast and learning the lay of the land. Not that I don't welcome more information--please continue to send any thoughts. Probably a case of a fine enough piano in serious limbo. Thanks for nailing that for me, Steve. I also loved the Schiedmayer thread I hadn't seen with the wonderful history about a much loved, sacrificed for, and restored piano with great pictures. The notion of contacting the German Embassy is brilliant and perhaps worth doing if only for the adventure. I have sent a email of inquiry to Schiedmayer in the event I could learn something from them. I would certainly keep the piano myself if I had any musical talent, but believe me, that has been tested. My mother was a pianist, a music teacher, and an occasional dealer. She had two grand Steinways of her own in addition to the Schiedmayer, which came from her sister. She considered the Schiedmayer the more valuable, but in certain ways preferred playing the Steinway B, perhaps just out of familiarity and its being broken in by her. I still have to sell the better of the Steinways as well. I always thought there was more than a bit of duelling pianos between them--the sister older, both Smith graduate music majors, etc...

Enough from me for now. If I get anything back from Schiedmayer, I'll let you know. Meanwhile, now that we're getting on the same page, what would you do??

Regards,
Amelia
Posted By: guest1013

Re: Please Help with my Schiedmayer - 11/07/08 05:49 AM

amelia k, that is a very interesting story about your piano. I do wonder if conservatory graduates would be another target, networking with the schools and their alumni, or even the music department at Smith college. It is also interesting to see on the Schiedmayer website that they are celebrating their 200th anniversary in 2009.
Posted By: Gregor

Re: Please Help with my Schiedmayer - 11/07/08 12:47 PM

Schiedmayer Pianofortefabrik v. J&P Schiedmayer Stuttgart was sold 1969 to Schiedmayer & Söhne, Stuttgart. I am quite shure that Schiedmayer & Söhne used the brand name Schiedmayer Pianofortefabrik further on until 1980 when it was sold to Ibach. Look at the serial numbers of Schiedmayer & Söhne: 1969 it was 54.798 and 1970 it was 124.593. And Schiedmayer Pianofortefabrik sold their company at the serial 69.618. So Schiedmayer & Söhne just added the serial numbers of their relatives to their production.

Complicated, but for your piano this means that it was produced in 1970 in Germany by Schiedmayer & Söhne but with the brand name Schiedmayer Pianofortefabrik.
Posted By: Steve Cohen

Re: Please Help with my Schiedmayer - 11/07/08 03:19 PM

Amelia,

Please provide contact info.
Posted By: amelia k

Re: Please Help with my Schiedmayer - 11/07/08 06:22 PM

Here is the reply I received from Schiedmayer:

Hello Amelia,

Thank you for your inquiry.I am glad to inform you that your grand piano
with the serial number 124517 has been built in Stuttgart and sold am
03.11.1969 to the J. Binion company in San Francisco. It could be that the
company still exists.
This instrument has been completely hand made, very high quality. Try to
contact David Vanderlip in Anaheim, if he could help. (714-635-4120)
dvanderlip@sbcglobal.net

Best regards


Elianne Schiedmayer
Posted By: verania5

Re: Please Help with my Schiedmayer - 11/07/08 09:14 PM

75k in 1969 could have purchased a very nice house. It is astonishing that this piano would sell for that much. Only the very wealthy could have afforded it. It does look lovely. Good luck with your sales.
Posted By: amelia k

Re: Please Help with my Schiedmayer - 11/08/08 02:25 AM

Per reqest, here is my contact information:

abkerrigan@comcast.net
(805)9373655

Thanks again to all for such comprehensive and useful assistance. Such a team!

Amelia
Posted By: Marty Flinn

Re: Please Help with my Schiedmayer - 11/08/08 07:13 PM

I stand corrected on my Kawai origins supposition. I still remain skeptical regarding the original selling price and current value. Can anyone document what a new Bechstein B or C would have sold for in 1969. Hamburg C in 1969? I am guessing a new NY B would have run about $12k.
Posted By: BDB

Re: Please Help with my Schiedmayer - 11/08/08 10:51 PM

I do not remember any J. Binion company in San Francisco in the 1970s.
Posted By: amelia k

Re: Please Help with my Schiedmayer - 11/09/08 01:02 AM

Internet research leads me to believe that today the company is JB Piano in San Raphael, Ca. It was founded in 1954 by Jared and Stephen Binion.
Posted By: BDB

Re: Please Help with my Schiedmayer - 11/09/08 01:16 AM

That may be the case. You could contact them.

I know I tuned a fairly new Schiedmayer concert grand in Orinda back in the 1980s so they were around. (I also tuned another smaller one for a couple in Berkeley a long time ago, but they have died. They told me that they bought the piano new about 1918.)
Posted By: Supply

Re: Please Help with my Schiedmayer - 11/10/08 06:37 PM

Quote
Originally posted by guest1013:
ameliak, Consider contacting the German Embassy, perhaps they can put you in touch with a target audience who already knows the brand, or other similar organizations that would be interested because of its origins.
Dear Guest, why settle for the Embassy? Go straight to the top.
Call the United Nations!!!


laugh ha
Posted By: guest1013

Re: Please Help with my Schiedmayer - 11/10/08 10:35 PM

Supply, I like that idea, too. wink
The embassies are often in contact with their ex-pats, and there may be professional musicians as well. The embassies have cultural receptions for a variety of audiences that may be interested in Amelia K's piano. The German embassy advertises on National Public Radio as well. A promotional event of German culture/instruments/art could be arranged.
Posted By: JohnDuPerry

Re: Please Help with my Schiedmayer - 02/25/10 06:50 AM

Hello Amelia,
I own this piano now and I truly love it. It is funny that I bought it from JB Piano in San Rafael where it was originally sold in 1969. Other accomplished pianists have played this piano and were equally enamored. I just thought you would like to know that she found a good home.

jd
Posted By: James Senior

Re: Please Help with my Schiedmayer - 02/25/10 08:49 PM

Hey jd,

Great to know that this fine instrument has found a good home! When you say 'other accomplished pianists' can I then assume that you're an accomplished pianist yourself? If so can we look forward to a video perhaps?
Either way, I hope you get many years of inspiration out of it :-)
J
Posted By: master88er

Re: Please Help with my Schiedmayer - 02/26/10 01:15 AM

Actually, I believe most of the postings above are incorrect!

Your piano WAS built by IBACH, who owned the Scheidmeyer name during the period that your piano was produced. My company actually sold the Scheidmeyer pianos built by Kawai, but that wasn't until the mid 1980's. I think your piano was built in 1970 by Rud. Ibach!

Ibach made very nice pianos, and the Scheidmeyer was on the level of Schimmel and Seiler at the time.
Posted By: Lady Bird

Re: Please Help with my Schiedmayer - 08/16/19 12:08 AM

I thought the story of this Schiedemeyer grand tells an interesting story about confusing history of the final years of that companies piano making.
There were 2 companies (relations)Schiedemeyer and Schiedemeyer .$ Sohn .The "original" manufacturer Schiedemeyer sold to the relative Schiedemeyer & Sons .Later IBACH piano manufactures owned the Schiedemeyer name and .made the pianos . At the end of this thread we discover that in the mid 1980's Kawai made Schiedemeyer pianos .
This grand piano was possibly made by IBACH in Germany.
Posted By: Lady Bird

Re: Please Help with my Schiedmayer - 08/16/19 02:32 AM

Another source mentions the 2 Schiedemeyer factories combining in 1969 into one.Thier combined output numbered 126,700 by 1980.It does not mention Ibach pianos at all ?
(The Piano ,The New Grove 1988)
Posted By: Lady Bird

Re: Please Help with my Schiedmayer - 08/18/19 11:37 AM


Originally Posted by verania5
75k in 1969 could have purchased a very nice house. It is astonishing that this piano would sell for that much. Only the very wealthy could have afforded it. It does look lovely. Good luck with your sales.

Surely they could not have bought this piano for $75,000 US in 1969 ???
Posted By: dogperson

Re: Please Help with my Schiedmayer - 08/18/19 01:14 PM

Originally Posted by Lady Bird

Originally Posted by verania5
75k in 1969 could have purchased a very nice house. It is astonishing that this piano would sell for that much. Only the very wealthy could have afforded it. It does look lovely. Good luck with your sales.

Surely they could not have bought this piano for $75,000 US in 1969 ???


Do you realize these posts were from 2008 through 2010?
Posted By: johnstaf

Re: Please Help with my Schiedmayer - 08/18/19 05:14 PM

Originally Posted by Lady Bird

Originally Posted by verania5
75k in 1969 could have purchased a very nice house. It is astonishing that this piano would sell for that much. Only the very wealthy could have afforded it. It does look lovely. Good luck with your sales.

Surely they could not have bought this piano for $75,000 US in 1969 ???


That money would have bought 9 Steinway concert grands in 1969!
Posted By: Lady Bird

Re: Please Help with my Schiedmayer - 08/18/19 05:35 PM

Actually do you think even a Steinways concert grand would have cost $75,000 in 1969 ?
I would have thought you could buy a small house at that time with that kind of money.
Posted By: NobleHouse

Re: Please Help with my Schiedmayer - 08/18/19 06:37 PM

Originally Posted by Lady Bird
Actually do you think even a Steinways concert grand would have cost $75,000 in 1969 ?
I would have thought you could buy a small house at that time with that kind of money.


That is very true.
Posted By: johnstaf

Re: Please Help with my Schiedmayer - 08/18/19 06:39 PM

A Steinway concert grand was around $8,000 in 1969.
Posted By: David-G

Re: Please Help with my Schiedmayer - 08/18/19 07:56 PM

$8,000 in 1969 was equivalent to about £2,900. At that time you could buy quite a large house in the London suburbs for £5,000.
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