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Joined: Jul 2013
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I need to reattach a piece of sticker cloth to the end of a sticker on my old Ivers Pond upright. What is a suitable glue for this task? Thanks - Rick [img:right] ![[Linked Image]](http://i1261.photobucket.com/albums/ii584/open_market/loose_sticker_cloth.jpg) [/img]
Learning to play the piano, very happy with my 1907 Ivers Pond uprights, and ready to part with my Yamha C7 - not the sound I like.
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yes better have some for the next ones , also. cold hide could do well also. a good one : http://www.oldbrownglue.com/how to use : http://woodtreks.com/?s=edwards&x=0&y=0PVA glue probably would work but hide glue is ideal for felt, does not enter too much inside
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Foo Foo specialist
I wish to add some kind and sensitive phrase but nothing comes to mind.!
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Thanks - You're probably right, more work to follow. Still waiting to see how she holds a tuning. Very nice sound despite the age, wear and tear.
What about a little wood glue for now and hide glue when and if I get ready to do more?
- R
Learning to play the piano, very happy with my 1907 Ivers Pond uprights, and ready to part with my Yamha C7 - not the sound I like.
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it is not that bad, avoid too liquid glue so it does not harden the felt.
hide glue does not hold so well if wood glue (PVA) have been used first
Last edited by Olek; 11/18/13 08:25 PM.
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Foo Foo specialist
I wish to add some kind and sensitive phrase but nothing comes to mind.!
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What about a little wood glue for now and hide glue when and if I get ready to do more? I would avoid this, if possible. As Isaac already indicated, PVA may cause a later application of hide glue to fail. The nice thing about hide glue is that it will always stick to itself. You might as well use that feature to your advantage. No need to remove all the old glue (which you will have to do if you use PVA now!) - just remove loose flakes. I keep a small bottle of ready-made hide glue in the fridge and just warm it up for small repairs like this. If one takes care to work cleanly with the glue, it actually lasts quite long before going moldy. And if it does, I just sterilize the bottle and mix up a fresh batch.
Autodidact interested in piano technology.
1970 44" Ibach, daily music maker.
1977 "Ortega" 8' + 8' harpsichord (Rainer Schütze, Heidelberg)
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On removing the old glue. The person refurbishing my piano 30 years ago used let-off button felt (.186) at the bottom of the sticker as replacement felt. Too thick in my opinion, and he left old original glue and a tidbit of the old felt. End result was that the capstan adjustment was too close to the bottom of its range, and I sometimes feared cracking the key as the capstan began to get hard to screw further in.
I cleaned off the bottom of the stickers completely and used a thin layer of liquid hide glue, pressing a few times to make sure the contact was good as it dried, to glue on home cut felt squares made from spring rail felt (,125), and gosh, does that look better and seems to work just fine. I think the extra old glue and left over felt added about .020" to .040" to the thickness.
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"I keep a small bottle of ready-made hide glue in the fridge and just warm it up for small repairs like this. If one takes care to work cleanly with the glue, it actually lasts quite long before going moldy. And if it does, I just sterilize the bottle and mix up a fresh batch." - Mark R. This is an excellent idea Mark! It never occurred to me to save hide glue in a bottle - I'm forever cooking up a new batch, and always seem to make way more than I need. I'll rewarm it in the pot one or two times, but then after that I scrape it out and start all over. Very wasteful - I go through several pounds of crystals a year. I'll give your idea a try! Thanks, Chuck
Tuner/Technician/Rebuilder/Technical Writer www.pianopromoproductions.com515-212-9220 "The act of destruction is infinitely easier than the act of creation" - Arthur C. Clarke
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On removing the old glue. The person refurbishing my piano 30 years ago used let-off button felt (.186) at the bottom of the sticker as replacement felt. Too thick in my opinion, and he left old original glue and a tidbit of the old felt. End result was that the capstan adjustment was too close to the bottom of its range, and I sometimes feared cracking the key as the capstan began to get hard to screw further in.
I cleaned off the bottom of the stickers completely and used a thin layer of liquid hide glue, pressing a few times to make sure the contact was good as it dried, to glue on home cut felt squares made from spring rail felt (,125), and gosh, does that look better and seems to work just fine. I think the extra old glue and left over felt added about .020" to .040" to the thickness.
Mostly we avoid the glue to enter the cloth too much. When using white PVA glue , it is left at air contact to thicken, or I use what remain in a small bottle that is there for a few years. That way I could glue mortise cloth without hardening the cloth (when hardened the cloth wear more rapidly and is also noisy, the PVA (?) glue used on modern keyboards is soft even when set. the qualities used for books and fabrics should be better than the wood glue in my opinion.
Professional of the profession.
Foo Foo specialist
I wish to add some kind and sensitive phrase but nothing comes to mind.!
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Thanks. I ordered a bottle of Titebond Liquid Hide Glue from Amazon. In the mean time, I'll work on making-up a bottle from scratch to keep in the frig. I notice some of dry hide glues come in different strengths, i.e. J.E. Moser, 251 gram strength or 164 gram strength. Does it matter?
- Rick
Learning to play the piano, very happy with my 1907 Ivers Pond uprights, and ready to part with my Yamha C7 - not the sound I like.
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You can use Knox gelatin. It is the same stuff, except purer.
I use Elmer's School Glue Gel for this. It stays flexible after it sets.
Semipro Tech
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@ Chuck: The stuff can just as easily be frozen. You might consider to make an ice-tray full of frozen glue cubes. Whenever you need some hide glue, just grab a cube out of the freezer and pop it into your glue pot. And if a batch does go off, dilute it down and pour it out into the garden. It's nitrogen-rich, an organic slow-release fertilizer for green leaf production. @ Rick: Thanks. I ordered a bottle of Titebond Liquid Hide Glue from Amazon. In the mean time, I'll work on making-up a bottle from scratch to keep in the frig. I notice some of dry hide glues come in different strengths, i.e. J.E. Moser, 251 gram strength or 164 gram strength. Does it matter?
- Rick
As BDB indicated, gelatin is the same material as hide glue (hydrolysed collagen), only more highly purified, so that it can be used in food. The "hide glue" supply that I use, is actually a one pound sample of food-grade beef-skin gelatin, rated at a 50-70 mPa.s viscosity and about 150 g gram strength (also called Bloom strength). I spoke to the gelatin manufacturer who kindly gave me this sample, and he said that all gelatins are quite suitable as glues. Higher gram strengths (e.g. 200 and up) gel more quickly, i.e. have shorter working times. Historical hide glues tended to have lower gram strengths, i.e. longer working times. For ease of use, I'd advise you to go with the lower gram strength. But both the 251 and the 164 will do just fine!
Autodidact interested in piano technology.
1970 44" Ibach, daily music maker.
1977 "Ortega" 8' + 8' harpsichord (Rainer Schütze, Heidelberg)
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,230
9000 Post Club Member
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9000 Post Club Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,230 |
@ Chuck: The stuff can just as easily be frozen. You might consider to make an ice-tray full of frozen glue cubes. Whenever you need some hide glue, just grab a cube out of the freezer and pop it into your glue pot. And if a batch does go off, dilute it down and pour it out into the garden. It's nitrogen-rich, an organic slow-release fertilizer for green leaf production. @ Rick: Thanks. I ordered a bottle of Titebond Liquid Hide Glue from Amazon. In the mean time, I'll work on making-up a bottle from scratch to keep in the frig. I notice some of dry hide glues come in different strengths, i.e. J.E. Moser, 251 gram strength or 164 gram strength. Does it matter?
- Rick
As BDB indicated, gelatin is the same material as hide glue (hydrolysed collagen), only more highly purified, so that it can be used in food. The "hide glue" supply that I use, is actually a one pound sample of food-grade beef-skin gelatin, rated at a 50-70 mPa.s viscosity and about 150 g gram strength (also called Bloom strength). I spoke to the gelatin manufacturer who kindly gave me this sample, and he said that all gelatins are quite suitable as glues. Higher gram strengths (e.g. 200 and up) gel more quickly, i.e. have shorter working times. Historical hide glues tended to have lower gram strengths, i.e. longer working times. For ease of use, I'd advise you to go with the lower gram strength. But both the 251 and the 164 will do just fine! strangely , my strongest hide glue on the contrary allows for a long working time then harden so much it chip glass/ Also first grade fish gelatins do stay liquid as long there is some heat, then harden and even can be waterproof somehow. The tack is different, too. nerve glue/gelatin is more supple and gelify faster
Professional of the profession.
Foo Foo specialist
I wish to add some kind and sensitive phrase but nothing comes to mind.!
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![[Linked Image]](http://s1261.photobucket.com/user/open_market/media/loose_sticker_cloth.jpg.html)
