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Do all of the pianists who participate in the international competitions attend a conservatory or college at the time of their participation? Are there any pianists who rank that are not in any programs?

I don't understand the question. You mean have all of them attended conservatories? It depends on the competition. Usually not.

Strange isn't it, how someone posts a question, gets answered within 60 seconds, and doesn't bother to even read the reply?

Sorry! I'm quite tired; I was laying down.




Let me put it this way:

Are there any pianists who've taken only private lessons their whole lives and then ranked in international competitions without ever having studied at a conservatory? I mean, they can't ALL have studied in conservatories. Yes?

No problem.



Rare, but possible, I guess, yes.

Yes, I know a couple students who have done this successfully. I think the common denominator between them was studying with someone who can connect them to that level of competition. That is usually what a conservatory is for--like any university, it's about connections and credentials more so than education. You may learn a lot while there, and you probably should, but the primary reason is for connections and credentials. The education can be gotten elsewhere. (Famous "Good Will Hunting" line, anyone? )

Jon Nakamatsu won the Gold Medal at the 1997 Cliburn Competition. He studied with only one teacher privately since the age of six. He did not attend a conservatory or major in music in college. I believe he was teaching high school German when he entered the Cliburn.

At the time of their participation? The age limit at many competitions is 30 or higher. It's not easy to stay in school quite that long, even if you want to. Maybe some enterprising institution will invent a post-DMA degree . . .

What does that have to do with anything? Just because the max limit is 30yo doesn't make a difference to everyone under that age.

Many participants at the big international competitions are already concert pianists trying to make it big, rather than just getting a few engagements at provincial towns here and there. And they (rightly or wrongly) think that if they win a biggie like Tchaikovsky/Chopin/Cliburn/Leeds, they'll get concert engagements all around the world, recording contracts etc. Many have already participated in other international competitions and been finalists there.

For instance, in the current list of finalists for the Van Cliburn, Jayson Gillham and Alessandro Taverna were both finalists in Leeds, and François Dumont was a finalist in the last Chopin Competition. Dumont has already made a CD recording of all the Mozart Piano Sonatas.

Can't you come up with a better example than that?

I think the best answer is that, by and large, the people who compete in international competitions either went to conservatories or universities or studied as youngsters and thereafter with highly-reputed and well-known teachers. Actual conservatory attendance is perhaps not necessary, but something needs to be done to gain notoriety.

Why would one need to be known to enter a huge competition?

That's a good question that deserves a good answer. I never came close to reaching that level, but I'll take a crack at it.

Nothing stops anyone from entering "big" competitions other than the competition rules. That's where the fun starts. The first elimination "round" generally involves audio tapes and written resumes or applications. One must assume that the judges can quickly eliminate applicants who aren't even close. But how are they going to judge as between the rest? That's where subjectivity comes into play.

Piano competitions are not like Olympic sports. Everyone knows that someone who runs 100 meters in 9 seconds is “the best.” But there is no objective measure of what is “the best” in music.

Put yourself in the place of the judges. You have to decide between two contestants. You haven’t seen them live. They both sound very good. One has studied with the best teachers coming along and has an established career as a concerto soloist with regional orchestras. The other is a complete unknown. What are you going to do?

The prize package for major competitions usually includes management and the promise of a busy concert schedule. Competition organizers need to know that the winner can handle that. In addition to being artistically prepared (which at this level is not a problem), they have to be able to work effectively with the administrative staff of these organizations, as well as be able to perform well with the lack of practice that comes with spending all your time in airplanes and hotels.

The only way to guarantee that someone will be able to handle the world of professional engagements is to find people who are already familiar with the world of professional engagements.

If someone is not "known", then they're a huge gamble. If Cliburn admits an unknown and they win, it's possible that while being an excellent pianist, they aren't ready to do 50 concerts a year. They don't pace themselves, the pressure gets to them, they get sick, or turn to drugs to get them through, or whatever, and performance #37 goes really badly. The concert promoters and audience think to themselves "wow...what happened with this guy, what was Cliburn thinking, I thought he was supposed to be good..."

Bad press, bad reviews, they refuse to work with Cliburn in the future, and now the reputations of the Cliburn and the presenter are tarnished and the performer has been reviewed as an unworthy disappointment. It's bad for everybody.

It already exists. Some institutions call it an Artist Diploma or Artist Certificate. It's not post-DMA, people usually opt for it instead of a DMA.

Information about TCU's is here:

http://music.tcu.edu/AD_admissions.asp

Several schools do this. Coursework is minimal, no dissertation is required, and admission usually doesn't require people to pass a TOEFL exam.

You can sit in Peabody's for up to five years while you build your concert career:

http://www.peabody.jhu.edu/conservatory/academicaffairs/ad.html

There are some Olympic sports that don't rely exclusively on quantitative measurement. And the systemic problems that arise as a result are not unlike that of piano competitions.

In other words, you're saying that competitions are a collaboration among the competition organizers, the leading universities and conservatories, their top teachers wanting to serve as judges of the competition, and the students from these schools who are specifically prepared to enter and win the competition. All others needn't apply because, whatever the caliber of their artistry, they aren't trained for the rigors of a professional career (starting with concerto and chamber collaboration).

That makes eminent sense but some unprepared souls break through. People like Umi Garrett, Aimi Kobayashi, Lang Lang, and Benjamin Grosvenor already have international careers and have been performing since they were pre-teenagers because they somehow struck the public's fancy at an early age. Let's call that the amazing child prodigy career track. It must be frustrating for the professionally trained pianists to see career opportunities stolen by children who have been performing with orchestras since age 5 or so, but then Salieri supposedly had problems with the precocious Mozart, so what else is new?

Personally, I agree that it is unfair that some cute-as-a-kitten 9 year old who can't even reach the pedals without help somehow has a full concert career. Part of the public likes novelty, so there is always a question of whether these prodigies can stay the course (many do seem to disappear). A bigger question, perhaps, is why the public takes a liking to only some of the hundreds of competition finalists who would love a career. Is it flashy virtuosity that sells? Novelty programming? A stunning formal dress that shows off the performer's legs? A catchy ad campaign? The right manager? A reputation for competence and consistency when collaborating with an orchestra, conductor or chamber group? An overcome-all-obstacles story (Tsukiji for example)? If someone could figure this out, we wouldn't need competitions.

Why do you think they were unprepared?

I think it's all of those things in one way or another.

And competitions are definitely not needed.

I'm aware of the Diplomas and Certificates. I didn't know that anyone was offering 5 years of shelter these days, but hey that's inflation. When I was a student, they were generally 1-year or 2-year programs. A good way to try out a new teacher or a new city, without the strain of Degree requirements. Although you can use them to stay in school a bit longer, and to extend the student visa, they don't allow you to really max out the academic timeline, not unless you get creative and pick up a couple of them before deciding that you want the DMA too. To reliably keep the pianists indoors past 30, we need something after the DMA, some sort of post-doc "research" arrangement that has yet to be invented, as far as I know.

Though my first post was perhaps too subtle, by now it's clear that I was kidding. I don't think musicians need to be encouraged to stay in school any longer than they already do.