Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Pianist Corner Fingering for the first cadenza of Liebestraum

The fingering for the right hand is fairly straightforward, but the fingering for the left hand is not.

The two scores I'm using ( http://imslp.info/files/imglnks/usimg/e/ef/IMSLP05979-Liszt_-_S541_Liebestraume_No3__russian_.pdf and http://imslp.info/files/imglnks/usimg/8/8a/IMSLP05980-Liszt_-_S541_Liebestraume_No3__edition_c_.pdf )suggest radically different fingering. I frankly don't like either of them, but I haven't come up with anything better.

I'm interested in knowing how people on this board finger the first cadenza. Which of the fingerings in the sheet music I posted is better?

"Better" is a relative term, because what works "better" for one person may not work "better" for another.

I have always used 2, 3, 2, 3, 2, 4, etc., on the ascending left hand in the first cadenza, but use the thumb on the top A-flat. The descending left hand then becomes 1, 2, 1, 2, 3, 4; 1, 2, 1, 2, 3, 4, etc. Some may not like that suggestion for the descent because it places the thumb on a black note on the first and third notes of each group of six, but it has always worked for me.

That said, I've only worked on this, never mastered it to performance level.

Regards,

I try to avoid placing my thumb on a black key because if I do so, I then have to place (or should I say wedge?) my middle or index finger between two black keys to reach a white key.

Do you think I could just do 2,3,2,3,2,3, etc. for the entire descent? Would doing so sacrifice speed?

I can now play the entire song moderately well, but I still botch the first cadenza almost every time I play it. My biggest problem with the cadenza is playing the last part of the descent, in which the left hand plays Db,Bb,Ab,G,Ab,G,Fb,Eb,Fb,Eb,Fb,Eb,Fb,Eb,Fb,Eb, etc.

I've tried so many different fingerings for this passage, but I can only rarely play it satisfactorily at an appropriate speed.

Can anyone offer advice or fingering suggestions for this section?

I wonder if maybe it isn't the fingering but the way you're 'thinking' of it or the way you're 'seeing' it. Often I find that to be the case with things like this.

The reason I think it might be something like that: The way the two hands are working together in the two cadenzas is OPPOSITE from each other. The 1st cadenza is one way, the 2nd is the opposite way. That can make the hands get "confused" if we don't realize what's going on.

We were talking about this a few weeks ago and maybe this post that I did might help:

What I mean by how the hands are working together

This kind of thing has happened to me in a lot of pieces, and I needed to really appreciate what's going on in order to get anywhere. And I'm not surprised that it's in the 1st cadenza that you're having more trouble, because in that one, the way that the hands are going in relation to each other is the harder way.

Maybe you'll wind up needing to change your fingering, but maybe you won't.

Mark C, I know exactly what you're talking about -- it was one of the first things I noticed about the cadenza. On the ascent, the left hand is easy to play while the right hand is difficult; on the descent, the left hand is difficult to play while the right hand is easy to play. This effect occurs because it easier to run quickly with the thumb rather than the pinky leading.

Also, I can play the cadenza perfectly fine when I play hands separately. Moreover, I think there's a mild psychological aspect to my problem because I've practically convinced myself that I'll never be able to play this cadenza adequately. One way in which this problem manifests itself is the severe palm sweating I experience right before I begin the cadenza.

So where should I go from here? Should I just keep practicing it over and over again? Incidentally, what fingering do you use for the section that's troubling me?

Do you get the part about it being "opposite" for the two cadenzas? I think that's the main issue.

As to where to go from here, I'm suggesting first of all that you really get that the two cadenzas are sort of in 'conflict' with each other, which they are -- and then work with that. IMO it's not something to just see and then say "OK" -- it takes some time and work, and only then can one know if it's a fingering issue. I suspect that it isn't.

I don't follow either one, exactly, but very similar to the second (non-russian) one. For instance, I don't use my right hand pinky until the movement ends, though I don't see how this would be a problem either way. Also, in the second example they use 2-3 etc and I use 1-2 with the occasional 1-3 going up and coming down. My rejection of the Russian example probably has more to do with a persistent numbness in the 4th and 5th digit of my left hand than anything else. I sometimes take the last d flat with the right hand and e flat with the left and play it like a drum. (mostly for fun)