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Hello! I'm a beginning level player. I have a (please don't laugh) Jacob Doll & Sons baby grand, 5'1". It is horrible...the sound is loud and shrill, the action is very sluggish and my hands and forearms hurt after I practice. BTW, one day I'll tell you how I was duped into rebuilding this piano...I am still so angry about this.

After numerous tunings and voicings, I have decided that this is it for that piano and will replace it ASAP. I just wanted your advice on what piano to buy. I like the sound of the Schimmel very much and I can fit a 7' easily into my living room. Also, I don't think I can afford a brand new Schimmel, perhaps you can suggest a piano similar to it?

I was thinking of renting, so I was offered a Ronisch 6'4 for $300. a month. What do you think? Is this a good piano? Anybody familiar with the touch and sound?

I spoke to Carl yesterday at Beethoven's and I plan to go over there this weekend to look at other pianos.

One more question, since I'm really a rank beginner, how does one test the piano? Scales? Exercises? What did you play when you were a beginner? I honestly feel kind of shy walking into the showroom and seeing all these advanced players testing the pianos...help!

Looking forward to receiving sage advice.

Welcome to the forum, pandora21. My best advice would be to (a) be patient, (b) try as many pianos as you can, both at and above your budget (many of us revise our budgets upward after getting over the sticker shock), and (c) buy and read the Piano Book by Larry Fine and his latest annual supplement.

"Be patient" is probably the most important advice. You have already had one unpleasant experience with a piano; you want to make sure that this next piano is the right one for you. Fortunately you live in a state where there are lots of shops and choices.

I personally wouldn't recommend renting a grand unless you are not sure you are going to stick with piano. $300 a month will add up quickly.

As for being a beginner, don't let that concern you one bit. Trust me, the salespeople have heard it all. Just don't play "Heart & Soul" or "Fur Elise," and you'll be okay. I had only been playing a year when I was shopping for my grand, and I also felt intimidated. One strategy I used was to go shopping at times few other people would be around (Tuesday morning, say). Usually I had the place to myself. I would encourage you to play pieces that you know fairly well, even if they are simple, in addition to scales. You'll want to hear how the piano sounds when you're playing chords and pedaling. (Does it have lots of harmonics?) Another strategy I used was just to play short snippets of pieces. That way when I (inevitably) made a mistake or had a memory lapse I could just stop and pretend it was just another snippet.

Good luck, and keep us posted.

My piano teacher just got a new Kawai RX1 to replace the Yamaha C2 he had. The bass is very, very impressive for a 5'1" piano. Could be a tad brighter in the tenor, but it will settle in.

My point being you are starting at a pretty pricey piano - a 7' Schimmel, You can go up from there, but there are good options going down as well.

Play as many pianos as you can. Fall in love - don't settle.

In general it's tone, touch, appearance, then price.

Multi-line dealers are good places to audition pianos, so Manhattan's Piano Row is a premier location.

The more pianos that you audition, the more helpful it will be to have written down your impressions of each one. Just what you noticed, liked, or didn't like. Paired auditioning offers an easy entree. When you visit a shop, just tell them that your auditioning pianos and that you'd like to try two that have different tones. Then make notes about each one.

The playing can be finessed. Ask the reps to play for you. Play songs that you're able to play. Listen carefully. It's OK to play slower than usual, because you're auditioning tones. Concentrate on the registers that you'll be using most often, but do also play chromatically and at different strike levels. Write down your impressions. Do you know anyone who plays?

Impatience is your enemy - particularly since you're angry at the current situation. Try to think of your auditioning as an adventure in which you're searching for a piano whose tonal palette is congenial. (Touch can be adjusted, tho not radically changed. Something's just wrong with the current one.)

Choosing a piano is ultimately an emotional decision and we often react differently on different days. Even if you fall in love with a piano, it'd be a good idea to wait a few days, then go back and audition it again.

If you want to learn about pianos, Larry Fine's "The Piano Book" is a good source. Fine's "The Annual Supplement To The Piano Book" contains brand ratings and the prices which most folks on PW consider to be the basis for beginning negotiations.

Patience and persistence.

Hi mikhailoh.

For your info, RX-1 is 5'5"

Cordially,

Bear

Hello everyone! Thank you for the advice you gave. I've printed them out and will start my shopping tour tonight. Will let you know what happens when I return home later...this should be fun wooohoooo.....

HEY! Fur Elise is my best piece right now... :t:

It was damn impressive for 5'5" too.

Hello! I'm back and want to share my experience last night at Beethoven's Pianos. Carl was very nice and patient, he showed me many pianos. I played a Grotrian, Yamaha, Kawai, Mason& Hamlin and a Steinway. Oh, and he showed me a 6'3" Ronisch, which he said I could rent for $300 a month. Does anyone have any experience with a Ronisch? Anyway, my husband and I were pretty impressed with the sound and the action. I must say that it has a better sound than the Grotrians I played. I think though, that the price is pretty steep $300 to rent.

So, I will take the advice of continuing to audition pianos, until I find the one that I love and can afford.

Are the AF's very expensive? I heard that these pianos are very nice as well.

Thanks so much!

Congrats on the auditioning.

The more pianos that you audition, the more helpful it will be to have made notes about each one. Comparing the Ronisch to the Grotrians would be a good exercise. Perhaps see if you can write down your impressions of them. Doesn't have to be scientific, just what you heard and felt.

Most people on PW recommend using the List Prices in Larry Fine's, "The Annual Supplement To The Piano Book" as the basis for beginning negotiations. You can get a downloadable PDF copy by clicking on this link.

The AF's are wonderful, my favorite piano (I have one too!). They have dynamic range, wonderful action, are resonate, beautiful bass, and tonal range as well (much more so than Schimmel in my opinion, but Schimmel has amazing action), oh, and the sustain.... Do try them just for the sake of hearing them. I'll bet that it will blow you away!!! Have fun on your piano shopping journey!!!

Hi Gav. What size AF do you have? I am going today to Piano Clearing House in Peekskill. They carry AF's, Bluthner, Steinway, M&H, Broadman, Yamaha, Kawai, and will be getting Schimmel's in. I will make sure I pay particular attention to the AF's..."sounds" like my kind of piano!

I can hardly wait to go and test the pianos. I spoke to the owner yesterday and he will be showing me the pianos.


And Fogvillelad, I just got the copy of LF's Annual Supplement and will review it. Thanks for the download though...what kind of piano do you have?

Okay, well better get ready! Stay "tuned" (get it??hahaha) for my next post.

Ciao.....

Michael, what piano down from Schimmel do you suggest is a good one to work with? I am serious about my piano, I really want to progress in my playing.

Oh Monica, I forgot to pedal! Will remember to do that today.

Cheers.

Just wanted to let you know that on Sunday, I went to Piano Clearing House, and found a very nice Kawai KG 2D. It was practically brand new, owned by a singer and maintained beautifully. I like the tone very much, it has a great sounding bass and very clear and nicely rounded treble. So, I traded in my old piano and bought this one. Oh, the casing is also perfect...not a single scratch. I bought the piano for $9000. It arrived today and it sounds wonderful in my living room. I am confident that this piano will serve me well for the next few years! Thank you to all for your great advice. Best regards!

Congratulations, pandora21! Please do come join us on the Adult Beginners forum.

Congratulations on your Kawai Pandora21! I started auditioning pianos at the piano crawl January 12th when pique (Perri Knize) was promoting her book "Grand Obsession". I did not find the "one" piano that spoke to my soul that day, but I thought all the instruments I played were outstanding. Kawai is next on my list to try out!

Best wishes. I am sure everyone will want to see a photo or two of your new piano!

- Mark

Pandora,
First, congratulations on the purchase of your KG2D. I hope you will enjoy it very much.

However, the remark you made above is incorrect.
While I'm not really familiar with the "piano clearing house" I can assure you that they do not represent almost all of the lines you mentioned.

In fact, we at Allegro Pianos exclusively represent some of the brands you mentioned as being “carried” by the said outfit within that geographical area.

I can tell you that the "piano clearing house" does NOT carry new Bluthner, Forster, Mason & Hamlin, Steinway, Yamaha or Brodmann pianos.
I do not know what pianos they "will" be getting in the future, but more likely than not, none of the above will be available for them to carry anytime soon...

Perhaps they had/have some used/old pianos by some of these makes, but then it is not accurate to say that they "carry" these brands.

I doubt that whomever runs this outfit intended to mislead you intentionally, but if you were under the impression prior to your visit that they were carrying these brands, then perhaps you would like to communicate with the salesperson that somehow you were led to this false impression.

Ori,

Is this really about the word 'carry' or is the distinction really between new and pre-owned?

For example, I would say that you 'carry' Steinway in that you make it your business to have a selection of Steinways in stock for customers at all times. Certainly your description of the size and scope of your rebuilding operation would tend to support that assumption. Also the home page of your website gives equal billing at the page top to Steinway along with the brands you represent. Obviously, it's clear from your Steinway page that your Steinway pianos are pre-owned and by and large rebuilt.

Are you saying that Piano Clearing House does not 'carry' the brands mentioned because they have no new inventory? In that sense, do you 'carry' Steinway?

Ori,

I own the Piano Clearing House of Westchester.

My communications with my customers are straightforward and honest as is my representation of what is new and used in my inventory. Pandora21 was fully aware of what she was coming to see and she had a wonderful afternoon exploring my inventory with one of the top technicians in the area.

If you feel that it is to your benefit to give lectures on Piano World to other dealer's customers concerning the semantics of their posts then so be it.

To be clear Piano Clearing House carries a broad range of used and rebuilt pianos as well as new Grotrian, Shigeru Kawai, Kawai, Charles Walter, Kemble, and Ritmuller pianos.

I hope this clears up any misunderstanding.

BC

The semantics as for dealer marketing is an interesting issue. I would say 90% of dealers whom represent Steinway or Mason & Hamlin in their store signature do not sell "new" ones and only have an occasional consigned rebuilt or used one. Yamaha or Kawai is always a common insertion in every dealer's signature. Let's face it, it's all apart of ways to entice the prospective piano buyer to your place only.A one stop shop. It may be stretching the truth but all dealers do it. Now for newer piano manufactures like Broadman,Hailun etc.it is a bit misleading in that if you're not an authorized dealer,who's gonna have preowned ones.
I'll have to side with Ori (believe it or not)on the Steinway /Mason and Hamlin legitimate claim in his signature in that they do inhouse restoration and most always wiil have a steady availability of inventory. As for Bluthner, I know no dealer that would input it in their signature unless they were an authorized dealer selling new ones.