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Anyone have experience with getting a new piano at a greatly reduced price because of a cosmetic defect?

I'm considering a proposal on a grand that has cracking like defect in the high gloss finish (the polyester lacquer). It is five years old but never used.

I'll say for now that it is a low-Tier 1 or high Tier-2 manufacturer.

I wouldn't be able to look at the instrument unless I flew out to a warehouse a third of the way accross the country.

If it were just the finish, it wouldn't bother me. Maybe you could get recommendations for a good tech in the city where the piano is, and have him/her inspect the piano before you fly out there?

A while back, brazospiano bought a new M&H at a VERY attractive price that had water damage from a fire. Some of the strings were a bit rusty, but I believe he is very happy with it. You can read about his experience on this thread here.

I probably would've been too risk-averse to go for it myself, but dang those pianos were being offered very cheaply.

This is second-hand information only. A technician who does a lot of rebuilding told me that the high gloss polyester finishes will sometimes develop long cracks that go with the grain. And that they cannot be fixed. He said you can't "refinish" these cases if the finish cracks. Again, I don't know, just passing on what I was told.

I guess it would depend on where the cracking was and how extensive or noticable? I think I would want to see for myself before I made a commitment.

Anything is possible to fix (refinishing),it is whether it is practical $
Polyester in the asian countries is much cheaper and easier to do in a factory setting. In the states, polyester is much more labour intensive and the material cost is more expensive than lacquer. Long cracks in polyester is the veneer underneath expanding in which polyester has no give. The early asian pianos displayed these symptoms due to the wood veneer being still green/wet therefore cracking the polyester.
It all depends on how bad it looks. It might just need for scratches and cracking to be sanded and buffed. Polyester on asian pianos is very thick so repairs and touch up are remediable to a point.

Asian polyester pianos are more heavy duty than European polyester pianos from past experiences. Asian pianos can usually take a hit whereas european polyester pianos tend to shatter. Just an obsevation over the years.

What is the piano, how much are they asking, and how bad is the finish on it (is it very noticeable and does that bother you?)

If we are referring to a European piano, the finish has probably not cracked from improper moisture content. It was probably from one of three things:

1) cold cracking - The piano went through a huge fast change in temp. which resulted in the finish contracting and, as a result, cracking.

2) a blow or drop - the piano was dropped or the crate was hit, etc.

3) movement of the veneer or problem with adherence to the veneer - If the piano has inlays of different woods or a brass inlay, it is possible that these can move underneath the poly finish (very small movements, usually invisible to the eye). Then if the poly becomes at all stressed, like during moving of the piano, it will crack.

An adherence problem is pretty elementary and I would not expect this on a better piano, but sometimes things happen.

By the way, poly can be refinished. We do it all the time for several different manufacturers. It needs experience and technique, but it can be done.

One other thing to keep in mind - the cracking may not be complete. IOW, the factors that made the cracks in the first place may still be there and the crack may continue to get worse over the following years. Without seeing the piano, I could not tell you more.

I hope that helps,

This is a Bechstein made 5 years ago. I was told it predates the academy series line; but is also probably not a C. Bechstein.

I was also told that some repair work was done.

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The [factory] dealer said they will honor the Bechstein 5 yr warranty on everything but the finish.
If I have them ship it I think I have to buy it.

However, I wonder if they'll guarantee its ability to perform mechanically & musically or I get a full refund (after they have a technician go over it).

I would think, being the factory dealer for a world renowned manufacturer, it would not be in their best interest for me to get 'screwed over'.

You need to go evaluate this piano. Bechstein's are wonderful instruments and, if the cosmetics don't bother you, I would snatch it up.

Bechstein is still warranting the piano so I would feel pretty confident, however I would not buy a piano in that price range without playing it first.

I would make an appointment to evaluate the piano and ask that a voicer be standing by. If it is a tad too bright (common with Bechsteins), they can voice it down while you wait.

Deals on Bechsteins are few and far between.

In an earlier post you said that $23,000 was out of your budget. Has your budget gone up considerably?

BTW, I would NOT describe Bechstein as a "Low Tier 1 or high Tier 2". Despite Fine's placing it in Tier 1B, it is arguably one of the finest pianos in the world.

Rich, this is very useful. Could you (or anybody else) tell us whether it is possible to discern from an inspection which of the three potential causes are involved, and whether the cracking is complete?

If it were me, I wouldn't mind buying a piano at a good deal if the cracking were cosmetic only and caused by the adherence issue. But I'm not sure I'd want a piano that had been dropped and/or underwent a huge drastic change in temperature.

Bear in mind, that if you buy this it will probably be next to impossible to sell it on should you decide it is not for you. Most people value cosmetic aspects highly, especially in new or nearly new instruments, and hence will walk away.

Before you go any further, get the serial number and model number and check it out. Can you play a similar Bechstein model more locally to confirm you like the brand?

from Steve Cohen
Just a thought. It might be time to add the Bechstein gig to the signature.

The only information I have on what it looks like is that it has a pyramid mahogany veneer and lines/cracks in the lacquer.

I'm hoping to contact Bechstein with a serial number and the person who inspected the piano some years ago.

I was told that someone did go and inspect it at one point in the past few years and there was some repair work done.

The woman doing this inspection claims that the defects would not be noticeable if you were, say, standing across a room; you would have to be up close.

I think the "woman" in this case is likely Sally Phillips. She is VERY highly respected and has earned that respect over her many years in the industry.

AJB advised, Buy the piano, not the deal.

If the instrument that you buy will be placed where others will see it, you'll spend a fair amount of time explaining that cosmetic defect. If this were, say, an old Knabe with a lumpy lacquer finish, sure why not. But a nearly new grand? Not a good idea IMO.

I dunno - it kind if depends on HOW MUCH of a discount. If I could get a pyramid mahogany C.Bech 210 for 23K with one finish defect in the lid, I'd be awfully tempted. Put a blanket over it.

But I would want it gone over with a fine tooth comb.

I agree that this would be the sentiment. Thus, it would be a risky deal for me. I would instead pick a used model but cosmetically clean. Whether we like it or not, Pianos are beautiful furniture.

Unless of course the defect is not that visible. In the age of digital cameras, surely they can show you photos before you fly.

Michael, yes - for you. But you're a serious, experienced player who's auditioned numerous pianos and is still pleased with his informed choice. Based on chemefire's posts, I'm guessing that he's new to piano. You probably know Bechstien's tone. Chemefire appears to be buying a deal, not a piano.

Chemefire, apologies if I've misjudged your experience.