Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.5 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
Find a Professional
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Advertise on Piano World

What's Hot!!
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
(125ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Piano Buyer Guide
Piano Buyer Fall 2017
Who's Online Now
49 registered members (AprilE, caduceus, Anil Kalagatla, AZNpiano, 10 invisible), 1,284 guests, and 2 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
#997155 - 11/24/08 06:48 AM Triplets and Notation  
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 201
Gary001 Offline
Full Member
Gary001  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 201
UK
I've only encountered one piece with a triplet so far and I'm not sure if I'm playing it correctly, so before I form an incorrect habit can someone shed some light on the timing of triplets.

If the counting for two eighth notes in 4/4 time is "1 and" and a triplet is "3 notes in the space of 2", would the counting then be "1 e and"?

That's how I initially thought the timing would work, however if that's the case, doesn't it mean the first 2 notes in the triplet are shorter in duration than the 3rd? Which leads me to believe my timing is incorrect. In fact, wouldn't that counting suggest two sixteenth notes and an eighth?


[Linked Image] XIX, XIV, XII, XI
(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
#997156 - 11/24/08 07:15 AM Re: Triplets and Notation  
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 15,172
keystring Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
keystring  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 15,172
Canada
I think of triplets as being three of them that fit evenly in the space of the next largest note value. So three eighth note triplets fit evenly into the space of one quarter note. I've heard some people say things like "cho-co-late" or "mi-ni-mum" or any other 3-syllable word.

#997157 - 11/24/08 10:38 AM Re: Triplets and Notation  
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 321
wj3 Offline
Full Member
wj3  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 321
Salem, Or/Las Vegas, Nv
I was taught to use "1 ta ta, 2 ta ta"


wj3

2010 Roland KR-115m, Yamaha clp-430
Working on Alfred Adult AIO 3 Super Special sorta song,Simply Joplin Bethena,Solace,Burgmuller, Stardust
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
#997158 - 11/24/08 11:12 AM Re: Triplets and Notation  
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 267
Manndrew Offline
Full Member
Manndrew  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 267
Massachusetts
Gary, my take on this is similar. If I have a measure with two triplets and two eighth notes my counting would be: One-and-a, Two-and-a, three-and, four-and. The triplets get the One(or Two)-and-a and the eighth notes get a three (or four)-and count. My tendency would be to accent the first note of each triplet, but give them equal duration of time.


[Linked Image]
(ad ) MusicNotes.com
sheet music search
#997159 - 11/24/08 01:31 PM Re: Triplets and Notation  
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 4,896
Betty Patnude Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Betty Patnude  Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 4,896
Puyallup, Washington
Yes, to the metric counting for everyone who likes using it.

But if you have problems in keeping steady beats, it is possible to do a different, I think greatly improved counting system involving note values.

For instance: the above measure in Manndrew's post, could easily be counted like this -

chocolate, chocolate, ti ti, ti ti

TA TA TA TA
0 0 0 0 (clap)
1 2 3 4
These (0) are steady beats (quarter notes TA's) they equate to four beats stablizing the counting.

The payoff is that you have used only two words "Chocolate" and "ti" to count with.

The counting word in every case is equal to the length (the duration) of each note symbol.

Some people love doing music math to meetric counting which is very important in ensemble work, but a pianist with 88 keys to play and only 10 fingers, needs something more simple to pulse with.

If you want to know how to count other note values I'd be happy to post that info.

Betty

#997160 - 11/24/08 03:02 PM Re: Triplets and Notation  
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 62
mydnyt Offline
Full Member
mydnyt  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 62
Philippines
what if you have a quarter note triplet on the treble staff and a quarter note and 2 eight notes on the base staff?


YOUTUBE VIDS
Currently on: Alfred Book 2, Sonatinas Vol 1 (Gail Lew) and random sheet music from the internet smile
MOST WANTED SHEET MUSIC: Maalaala Mo Kaya, Souvenir de Filipinas - I'd also love to have the ability to play them... laugh
#997161 - 11/24/08 03:15 PM Re: Triplets and Notation  
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 6,163
sotto voce Offline
6000 Post Club Member
sotto voce  Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 6,163
Briarcliff Manor, NY, USA
Quote
Originally posted by mydnyt:
what if you have a quarter note triplet on the treble staff and a quarter note and 2 eight notes on the base staff?
That's an issue of polyrhythm, specifically four against three (i.e., four eighth notes in bass clef and triplet quarter notes in treble clef). This is probably as good an explanation as any:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyrhythm

Steven

#997162 - 11/24/08 03:31 PM Re: Triplets and Notation  
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 905
Danny Niklas Offline
500 Post Club Member
Danny Niklas  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 905
Switzerland
Quote
Originally posted by Gary001:
I've only encountered one piece with a triplet so far and I'm not sure if I'm playing it correctly, so before I form an incorrect habit can someone shed some light on the timing of triplets.


Triplets are not so easy.
I've seen them played and counted in the wrong way. It's easy to express them as just three notes and failing to see where each sub-beat would fall.

So you have a 2/4 and a triplet of 3 quarters.
In order not to change the pulse you must turns the 3 quarters into two beats, which would match the 2/4.

This is how you do it:

1) every note of the triplet is divided into as many notes as the numbers of beats the triplet covers

2) you create as many groups, out of these notes, as the numbers of beats the triples covers

3) each group of notes must be comprised of as many notes as the number of the irregulat group or tuplet (in the triplet case, the number is of course 3)

So this is how it works:

[Linked Image]

The triplet covers two beats.
Each note of the triplet is divided by two.
You get six notes. You form two groups of notes.
Each group must contain three notes as the 3 of tre triplet.

The end result, as you can see, is that you've reduced those three notes into two beats.

It might seem rather complex, but it's better to learn triplets theorically the proper way understanding how to "compress" three notes into two beats with mathematical precision, rather than approssimate a "compression" usually with poor results.

Quote
That's how I initially thought the timing would work, however if that's the case, doesn't it mean the first 2 notes in the triplet are shorter in duration than the 3rd? Which leads me to believe my timing is incorrect. In fact, wouldn't that counting suggest two sixteenth notes and an eighth?
I hope you can see now with my scheme, how each note of a triplet is identical in duration.

I have two other tricks.

Alphabetically think of a normal pair of notes in a binary time as the word BABY

BA - BY, BA - BY, BA - BY, BA - BY

Alphabetically think of a triplet in a binary time as the word FAMILY

FA - MI - LY, FA - MI - LY, FA - MI - LY,

Keep repeating "baby" many times then start to say "family" in the same amount of time you said baby. You will notice that with "family", the syllables are kind of dragged, sort of perpetual.

Another perspective which helps to understand how to express triplets in time, is to consider the triplet plus the next note as a binary group.
This also helps to understand that usually the triplet and the next note are kind of "glued" together.

Consider this for example:

[Linked Image]

The triplet covers 1 eight beat.
The triplet is followed by 1 eight F.
Together they form 1 quarter beat.

It helps to think of this triplet as:

G - A; G - F,

but with the F on the next beat.
Sometime, when people think of such triplet as

G - A - G; F

they tend to create an innatural pause between the G and F and ruin the pulse.
On the other hand if they think

G - A; G - F

but remember that F falls on the second beat, it helps them to play the triplet more evenly without pauses. It also helps to think binarily, when dealing with ternary groups.

#997163 - 11/24/08 03:47 PM Re: Triplets and Notation  
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 62
mydnyt Offline
Full Member
mydnyt  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 62
Philippines
sotto voce, thanks for the link... it kinda help me figure out how to play that part. smile


YOUTUBE VIDS
Currently on: Alfred Book 2, Sonatinas Vol 1 (Gail Lew) and random sheet music from the internet smile
MOST WANTED SHEET MUSIC: Maalaala Mo Kaya, Souvenir de Filipinas - I'd also love to have the ability to play them... laugh
#997164 - 11/24/08 05:15 PM Re: Triplets and Notation  
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 244
IngridT Offline
Full Member
IngridT  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 244
Netherlands
My onorthodox method for getting the triplets in your system:

Step on your bike. Moving your feet around the pedals gives you a very nice constant 2/4 or 4/4 rythm. Keep on counting 1-2 or 1-2-3-4 for a while, and then try a nice 1-2-3 3/4 beat fitting into the rythm of yor feet moving around. Once you can handle that, try alternating between the 4/4 or 2/4 beat and the 1-2-3 of the triplet. It's a certain 'feeling' you have to develop. And the bike helped me a lot to 'get it' (walking probably works as well, but on the bike it's easier. Your feet kind of continue the basic 'beat' on their own, at a nice, constant speed, while you can concentrate with your head on getting the 1-2-3 fitting in. After a while it becomes kind of easy, and you can hardly understand what the problem was.

Does this sound real weird?? I struggled terribly with the triplets, but for me this was the trick!

Ingrid (from the Netherlands, the bicycle coutry.)

#997165 - 11/24/08 05:39 PM Re: Triplets and Notation  
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 4,896
Betty Patnude Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Betty Patnude  Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 4,896
Puyallup, Washington
Great idea Ingrid!

Using your leg motion in biking to measure triplets with! It produces a side to side gait too, which really helps.

Maybe the problem, too, is in the mind when someone says trip-lets (a 2 syllable word) but needs the syllabication of "tri-ple-ets).

Tri = 3

I can almost feel the wind on my face, and I don't bike, never have!

Thanks so much for a good idea!

Betty

#997166 - 11/24/08 06:21 PM Re: Triplets and Notation  
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,366
playadom Offline
1000 Post Club Member
playadom  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,366
New Jersey
Take your left hand, playing any octave on the piano.

Just say for example that you're beating 8th notes.

You'd put the stress on the bottom note -- like thus:

DOWN - up - DOWN - up - DOWN - up

Now, say that we're doing triplets.

Stressing the 1st of the 3 notes -- it would be something like this:

DOWN - up - down - UP - down - up - DOWN - up - down - UP - down - up

With every note having the same duration.


Practice makes permanent - Perfect practice makes perfect.
#997167 - 11/26/08 07:21 AM Re: Triplets and Notation  
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 201
Gary001 Offline
Full Member
Gary001  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 201
UK
Thank you for the suggestions, especially Danny for providing such detail.

It looks like I've been playing triplets as 2 sixteenth notes and an eighth with "1 e and" counting rather than 3 equal durations as Danny points out. I'll have to spend a bit more time working on the rythm of these notes, but on a good note, the piece I'm looking at playing next uses quite a few groups of two sixteenth and an eighth note smile

Thanks again.


[Linked Image] XIX, XIV, XII, XI
#997168 - 11/26/08 10:17 AM Re: Triplets and Notation  
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 201
Gary001 Offline
Full Member
Gary001  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 201
UK
Danny, I tried to respond to your PM but it says your message box is full. PM me again once you've had a clean out and I'll get back to you smile


[Linked Image] XIX, XIV, XII, XI

Moderated by  BB Player, casinitaly 

Piano Acc. & Gift Items in
Piano World's Online Store
In PianoSupplies.com ,(a division of Piano World)
our online store for piano and music gifts and accessories, Digital Piano Dolly, party goods, tuning equipment, piano moving equipment, benches, lamps Caster Cups and more.


Free Shipping* on Jansen Artist Piano Benches, Cocoweb Piano Lamps, Hidrau Hydraulic Piano Benches
(*free shipping within contiguous U.S. only)
(ad)
Pearl River & Ritmuller
Ritmuller Pianos
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq 6 Out now
ad
Pierce Piano Atlas


New Topics - Multiple Forums
Price for 1968 Yamaha console
by twocats. 12/13/17 01:24 AM
Another which to buy Charles Walter vs Vose
by lydecker. 12/12/17 11:15 PM
Sawtooth ST-DCP-61 61-Key Digital Console Piano
by ThePawn. 12/12/17 10:09 PM
Key Top Replacement
by Mickey24. 12/12/17 05:18 PM
Forum Statistics
Forums44
Topics183,248
Posts2,678,839
Members89,267
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Check It Out!
There's a lot more to Piano World than just the forums.
Click Here to
Explore The Rest of Piano World!!
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2017 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0