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Good morning Kathleen:

I would certainly play a "pure" Chopin version, exactly as he wrote it. But how can you tell the Chopin version, from the Fontana one?

The other day, I was playing Chopin's mazurka Op.67#2 in Gm, also published posth.,and I had that terrible sensation that from bar 34 to 41, they were like incomplete..you know...as if he wanted to say something, but never had the chance (or time) to say it.
Or do you interpret it differently?

Regards,,,

Good morning, Sarah:

I have to admit that I not as sophiscated as you in noticing anything missing from Chopin. I just sort of take it for granted (or at least, this has been my feeling in the past) that the music I'm playing is his.

Now, much to my surprise and deep disappointment, I have become aware that this is not always true. From what I've read about his habit of changing his music, so many times, from one publisher to another, I am now not so sure what I am playing is true Chopin. And even Fontana, editing the way he did and so many other people....yikes, who knows what's real or not.

So even if his music has been altered, there is enough of Chopin in it, I believe, that appeals to me so deeply. His spirit is there, somewhere, among the notes. And that's enough for me.

I should add, of course, that Chopin left strict orders that his "unfinished" work not be published. Of course, his wishes were not granted. So, yes, I can see that when you are playing something...there could very well be sections that you feel are not finished or not quite what they should be.

Thank you, Sarah. I appreciate your comments.

Kathleen

If you played from the 1835 "Warsaw" manuscript dedicated to Mme Marie, you would not be playing what Chopin wanted. There are obvious mistakes, such as the natural sign omitted from the A in the right hand in measures 3 and 12.

The Paris Conservatoire has another manuscript of this waltz, also in Chopin's hand, dated 1842 and dedicated to Charlotte de Rothschild. It also has omissions.

I use the Paderewski Edition, and play the version I like best.

Mel

Hi Mel:

I have the 1835 version, which is in Warsaw. It DOES have a natural sign for the A's in the RH in measures 3 and 12. So?????

Any other errors that you think it might have? As the Alfred book says this version is THE real one. What can I say? What do I know?

Regards,
Kathleen

Yikes! Thanks for the info on the Berceuse Kathleen - VA, as I had thought it might be in spite of the relatively simpler left hand - think I'll just stick to the opening page or so for now!

On another topic- what are peoples thoughts on Chopins most memorable moments. I read a review on the net recently and the reviewers opinion was that bars 42-45 of the 27-2 nocturne was some of Chopin's most inspired and memorable writing. I think this is definetely up there. I've not listened to nearly as much of his works as I should, but I also think the following are ;

- The trill section in the Nocturne op 62-2.

- The final 3 chords in the E Minor prelude

- the opening of Heroic

- The final 20 or so seconds of the grand polonaise brilliante

The entirety of 10/12

> what are peoples thoughts
> on Chopins most memorable
> moments

That I like: the Doppio movimento section of the 5th Nocturne (Op 15/2) and the Op 10/3 study (esp the 4ths section).

That I don't like: the 'death march'.

Some favorite Chopin moments of mine:
http://www.box.net/shared/urpzqevbas

Most of them are by my favorite artists for these pieces

GREAT question, Stephenc: Now I have to think about those pieces that bring tears to my eyes or shakes me in my shoes. Whether these are examples of Chopin's greatest genius come to light might be another matter, but, for me, they are.

I'll be back later with my list.

Oh, remember that documentary called: Chopin's Afterlife? I e-mailed the producer asking if it would be permissible (legally speaking) if we "shared" a copy made by one of our Devoted members. I got her response yesterday.

Here it is:
+++++++++++++++++

Sorry for the delay in reply, I have been working around the clock on my new project on Liszt, filming and practicing.

I do not know if you looked at it, but a lot of information on my film is on the website: www.chopinsafterlife.com

I express some thoughts there. Feel free to ask questions.

Now is my turn to ask you about getting my DVD: if you really like Chopin and people devoted to him, rather than recycle one copied-from-television DVD wouldn’t it be nice for you and a tribute to me to order copies from my distributer? I have worked on the film six years, on my own and from my own funds, all the wonderful musicians came on board volunteering. We did it for Chopin.

You wouldn’t ask a writer if it is OK to circle around one copy of his book!

While I cannot prevent people copying I am writing you because you sent me this heartfelt story of your group.

My distributer is FILMAKERS LIBRARY (open please both pages of attachment). For those who mention that I sent them the special price is $39.

I even have a challenge for you: If there are enough of you in Chicago, I would love to come next fall and talk about making the film, things that did not get in, and answer questions, even give examples from the piano (if there is one). All you need is a screening room, maybe at the University? There is someone John C. Tibbetts who has a series of films on music biographies in Chicago (he wrote a book on Biography of Composers in Film)

All the best,

Ophra
++++++++++++++

Of course, she has a very good point, and I understand it completely. While I would love to buy a bunch of copies and distribute them to all of you who would like one, I simply can't afford it. So, I guess this means "no." Unless, of course there are some of you who would like to order one. Please fill us in on the details.


Back, later, with my list..
Kathleen


Regards,
Kathleen

No, we'd just do it. It's called a public library. As far as I know once one owns a book or a DVD or anything else one may pass it back a forth between as many friends as one likes as long as it is not copied and sold for profit. This is in the interest of the author as well because more people are exposed to the work, people who might never have even heard of it much less bought it thus establishing a "fan base" for future work. I very seldom spend my money on the work of an author with whom I am not already somewhat familiar.

Frycek: I had to laugh at your first sentence.

That's what we get for asking for permission. And, you are right...in all the comments you made. It would certainly be to her advantange for as many people as possible to know of her work, especially now that she is working on Liszt.

I am going to see what I can do about this. Will let you all know later.

Thanks, Frycek
Kathleen

Hi Bassio: What a great job you did in recreating "The Greatest Chopin Moments." I totally agree with you on Chopin's two concerti. The Romance in Concerto F is enough to bring one to one's knees. It's indescrible. And those mazurakas!!

You have all the very greatest playing also...Hofman, Corot, Rachmaninoff, Rubinstein (he was born to play the mazurkas). Wow, such a collection.

I loved all the "moments" you chose.

Wouldn't it be great if, when we had the time, we could do what Bassio did. True, it takes some effort, but it would be a very nice "project" to work on. Just a thought. After I do the laundry (life does get in the way sometimes) I have going to create my own list as Bassio did and post it.

Thanks again for the huge effort. So nice to listen to. Some gave me the chills...and some others a "ping" to the heart-strings.


Kathleen

Thank you Bassio for sharing your favourite Chopin moments.

For me there are so many great moments of Chopin, I can not make a list. But special to me is the Mazurka op.17 no 4 (played by Andsnes of course ). I wanted to share part of it but did not know how to make an excerpt.

Ragnhild

Ragnhild: Do you have a microphone (any old cheap one will do) that you can plug into your computer? You did one so you can get the music into the computer. Some computers have built-in mics.

Let me know and then I can walk you through it.

Kathleen

Im sure it's possible Kathleen, but the sound will be bad, I guess.
I think Bassio has done it in another way ...?

Ragnhild

Yes...I was just thinking about it. Is your music on a CD? Can your computer play CD's.

If so, let me know.

Kathleen

Bolero (!): Starting at bar 192 there's a four-bar "Chopinesque" breakdown in broken diminished seventh chords, then another four-bar passage—this one a very lean tenor melody under the right hand's bolero/polonaise ostinato. I love the economy of these transitional bars from 196-199, ending as they do in a spare, staccato cadence over a trill in the bass and ceding to the main theme's return at b. 200.

Concerto #2, the coda of the finale: The tutti modulates from f minor to F Major, a distant trumpet echoes the second theme of the movement ... and then the piano re-enters brillante. It is so exuberant, so triumphant—it's not an overstatement to me to say that Chopin's soul is positively soaring here. This whole passage through the end of the movement contains some of the most pure, exultant, boundless joy to be found anywhere in Chopin.

Etude 10/7, measures 48-51: I just love how this progression sounds, and it is a lot of fun to play, too.

Etude 10/10: The modulations in key at various points give me goosebumps!

Fantaisie Op. 49: Those wild cadences that start at measures 101 and 268 and culminate in the octaves in contrary motion! That jumping bass line and those slurred eighth-notes! I can't quite explain why, but these irresistible twin passages caught my ear at the age of, like, four on a 78-rpm record that I bought at a rummage sale. Decades later, I can finally verify that they are a blast to play, too. (Is there a term for that left-hand pattern of octaves on the downbeats and block chords on the upbeats? It reminds me of ragtime or stride patterns—to the extent I'm familiar with them, anyway—but I thought maybe there was another way of describing this in a classical context.)

Nocturne 9/2: The climax and ensuing leisurely coda. I believe this must be one of Chopin's finest endings, and in such a youthful piece, too! (Edit: I meant 9/3, the B major!)

Polonaise-Fantaisie: Wow, how to narrow it down? Okay, how about the eight-bar passage starting at 108 (marked agitato in my edition). It's ingenious to me how the polonaise rhythm is created by the interplay between the left hand's triplets and the syncopation of the right hand's lower voice. I also must mention the galloping lead-up to the climax, the spectacular climax and that rollicking coda. Doesn't this piece have one of the most satisfying closes in all Chopin?

Prelude 28/7: Well, it's perfection in 16 measures. Is there a lovelier miniature in all the piano repertoire?

Prelude 28/17: In the development passages beginning at bars 19 and 43, I find the characteristically Chopinesque chromatic harmony totally exquisite.

Great thread!

Wait wait .. use this: mp3Directcut

it is a free program that cuts mp3 into pieces

just highlight the segment you want to cut and from the File menu --> Save selection

You can download it from here
http://www.softpedia.com/progDownload/mpDirectCut-Download-4880.html

hmm .. is the music on a cd???

Like this we will have to try another approach (we will rip the cd first to mp3 then we will cut it)

Let us know

Here it is in the special "Kathleen-way" of sharing by mic

Andsnes Mazurka 17.4
http://www.box.net/shared/kdutpjsivy

The file is on my computer as .wma - and I don't know how to make an .mp3 from it.

The 2. sonata was on the same cd, so nowI'm listening to the funeral march, which I should not - it will ruin my sleep tonight

Ragnhild