Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Adult Beginners Forum Just for those totally devoted to Chopin

Kathleen,

Can you please describe what you mean when you say you run out of space? Does the page go blank? On my screen, when I reach the bottom of the text box where I write, a scroll bar appears on the right, so I can write more (although usually I don't write very long messages... )

CA

Now that you mention it, I've had to sort this out in my head. It must have been about a grade 3 version - there were really spooky tombstones printed on the top of the page and it sounded just like on the cartoons - I remember that vividly. (I was probably more about 8.) I learned the whole real thing later probably at about 13. I was a big kid for my age and I've got pretty stretchy hands from playing hymns (?)-always have had.) I think my subconsious has combined the pieces. I've never done anything phenomenal in my life.

Elene: As much as I would like to, I would not have the nerve to write to Siepmann. He might think I was more knowledgable than I really am.

Frycek: That's good news about his book being fairly accurate. Now I just have to figure out how to get it...from Oxford Publishing? But which one? That's funny about your playing the Funeral March, with the tombstones on top of the page. You should try to find the music again, record it, and play it through speakers for all the little kiddies to listen to on Halloween. Though I doubt they would even know what it is.

And on that subject, the more I thought about Chopin's most recognizable compositions, I have to agree with Steven. Not to sound so negative, but I think the average 30 year-old today (and I said average for there are always exceptions), would not recogniize ANY music by Chopin. Just where or when do they listen to classical music? It's rather sad, but I think that's pretty much the situation. I remember going into Target a few months ago and trying to find the "Classical" section in their huge music department. When I asked the clerk where it was, he said they didn't have one. I guess they only display what will sell, and obviously classical does not sell. The same went for Barnes and Noble. Good grief, you would think they would have a large classical sectiotn. Not the case at all.

CA: I don't know why I am the only person who seems to have this trouble. When I come near the end of the box, I switch to Full Reply Screen and hit that scroll arrow, which gives me another half of inch. I have to do this a few times, and then I can't see what I am writing as the screen keeps bounching around.

Well, I'm bouncing agin, so that's it.

Kaithleen

I don't remember seeing this image before:



It's from the Cortot edition of the Preludes (in French).

Steven

"I guess they only display what will sell, and obviously classical does not sell. The same went for Barnes and Noble."

Actually, Classical is a good, steady seller--- not with the flash, glamour and hormone overload of the pop, rock, and country charts (and its ready turnover), but very respectable. The B&N music dept. manager told me the other day that the sales are going to downloads, rather than to people in the store buying pieces of plastic (except, of course, for old fuddy-duddies like me who have lived through any number of OS and platform changes and who know what it is to have their hard drive go south, or their record collection become useless).

Even in a big chain like B&N, every store is not the same, and some managers do a better job stocking the classical section.

It may be a losing battle. Their business model features a built-in disincentive to buy anything in the store (it costs a lot more compared to ordering for home delivery), but of course you have to know, in advance and sight-unseen, the nature of the content you're ordering--- and tolerate the suspense of seeing if UPS is going to get it there, when they gt good and ready. That may be fine for the older, already-educated and jaded sort of person, but it cuts off the feet of the market for the up-and-coming listener.

But, who am I to tell them how to do their business, or to persuade them that cash sales are worth their while.

If it's any consolation, their selection of books about music is an even worse train wreck, and I think, frankly, the managers and buyers just don't have any clue what to stock.

Hmmm, I may have worked my way around to agreeing with you...

I took a trip to my local HMV just the other day and they did have a reasonable selection of classical music on offer (not that I was looking for it at the time), though I do prefer to download it onto my iPod (that I'm using right now to write this as a matter of fact). That way I can take it anywhere, use headphones so I don't disturb other people, but I can also use a 'docking station' to play it without headphones. The wonders of modern technology. It's a win win situation in my case.

Kathleen - if it's any comfort, which it probably isn't, I bounce around when writing replies too.

Sotto - I'm not sure if I've seen that portrait or not. I am wondering if it is a very poor reproduction of this one - what do you think?

Wouldn't it be exciting if it were a hitherto unknown photo! I know that Cortot did collect Chopin memorabilia.

Mary-Rose, the portraits seem so similar that I do reckon they are the same. But I'm not sure I recognize the one in your link, either.

It's confusing! I know the more familiar images by virtue of having seen them repeatedly; in the case of less known ones, it becomes hard to recall if I've seen them and forgotten or really am seeing them for the first time.

Steven

I don't think I've seen that portrait either. Will wonders never cease? It isn't coming out very clearly on my screen; it's awfully dark. At first I thought it was the angelic one that was by Rubio? or just attributed incorrectly to Rubio, I can't remember? but it's not. (Too lazy to look up the other portrait.) It doesn't appear to be a photograph.

Frycek, I think playing the whole Funeral March at age 13 is pretty fine too. I'm still challenged a bit by those hefty chords, which push my own stretchiness to its limits.

I love to play that for Halloween and Day of the Dead (unoriginal though that may be), but haven't looked at it yet this season.

Borders has a pretty good classical music section, and also a decent number of books about music-- at least they did last time I looked. Unfortunately I tend to help wreck the local economy by buying online like so many others.

Elene

The portrait I used in my link was this quite familiar one from 1844; I made it darker to more closely resemble the poor reproduction of the first.

That makes sense. Cortot owned that portrait at one time. He mentions it in his In Search of Chopin. According to Cortot one of Chopin's female students was engaged to the artist. She asked her fiance to paint a linkness of her "beloved maestro" and Chopin agreed to sit for it if the artist could come to his apartment as he was no longer able to manage the stairs to the artist's studio. The artist obliged.

Now that portrait is familiar! (And the one of which the other two reminded me.)

Steven

Hey, remember that "studly" image of Chopin that we were all ga-ga about. Well, at least the ladies were. When I think of that now, I am a bit ashamed.

It is good to know, MaryRose, that I am not the only one who has a ghost haunting my site on the forum.

Now...you all have to tell me how you post those images on this site. I haven't been able to figure it out. I think Frank doesn't want pictures because he has certainly made it difficult.

Thanks, Elene, for letting me know about Borders. I had forgotten that they also sell Cd's. My daughter gives me gift cards for every single holiday, and I have several in my purse, just waiting to be used.

Chopin4life: I had an iPod and have thought of downloading some music but have been a bit hesitant in doing so for fear I will have problems. Does it work well?

Thanks all,
Kathleen

Kathleen, while I kind of hate to support big chain stores, Borders gives me so many good coupons that I go there fairly often. You can easily sign up for their rewards programs, and they often give 30% off or even more, with CDs often included.

The student who married the painter, Rubio, was Zofia Rozengardt. (I think that's the correct spelling.) She's the one who wrote a diary that included descriptions of her lessons, the one that's extremely unflattering to her teacher. Yet, he seems to have been quite fond of her and her husband, and if I remember correctly, he wrote his only piece of sacred music, now lost, for their wedding.

Elene

I'm afraid we may have managed to merge a couple of "reminiscences" like a pair of old gossips at a funeral - according to Cortot the lady student was "Vera de Kologrivoff" and she married Rubio three years after the portrait was done.

This is from In Search of Chopin by Alfred Cortot:

"In a letter to Chopin, dated 1843, she informs him that she has spoken to M. Rubio about a portrait. To save Chopin the effort of climbing stairs, Rubio has for this once consented to depart from his normal practice and come to him with his palette and brushes. Rubio is determined, she adds, 'to finish the little portrait in oils in two sittings.' She ends by urging Chopin to agree to the project because she wishes there to be in existence 'a portrait that is a likeness.' "

Steven: I keep meaning to ask you about that dog in your closing. Care to share?

Elene: Thanks for the tip about Borders. My daughter worked for them for two years as their event planner (at our local store), and she never once mentioned anything about discounts.

Frycek, you're right. Now I'm home and can look things up, and I see that it was indeed Mlle. de Kologrivoff that married Rubio. Zofia Rozengardt married the poet Bohdan Zaleski, and Chopin wrote not just one but two pieces for the couple, and was a witness at their wedding, despite the apparent clashes with the bride during her lessons. See Eigeldinger pp. 188-9.

I'm confused about the portrait; I don't know if there is one portrait that looks subtly different in different reproductions, or two portraits that look very similar to each other. On p. 68 of Ates Orga's Chopin bio, one finds just the head of a very angelic-looking portrait. The caption is "Chopin. Portrait by Teofil Kwiatkowski formerly attributed to Rubio (Alfred Cortot Collection). But in the original edition of this book, the same portrait was captioned "Franz Liszt"! I don't know how trustworthy the second caption is either.

I couldn't find a good view of this portrait (or portraits) this morning when I did an image search, but here is a sort of decent look at the one that's in the Orga book:
http://www.documentamusica.de/html/en-bio-chopin.html
It doesn't say who painted the original.

While looking for that, I came across someone's attempt at reconstructing the Delacroix double portrait:
http://wpcontent.answers.com/wikipe...acroix.jpg/300px-ChopinSandDelacroix.jpg

If you want lurid and not overly accurate writing, you could check out
http://www.sexualfables.com/vampires_in_venice.php
which is mostly about Sand and Musset, but also mentions Chopin as one of the weak, boyish, and easily controllable men Mme Sand was attracted to. Sigh. Don't get me started....

Elene

A good, if not complete, online source for Chopin portraits is this:

Chopin portraits

It was started in the last few months of his life by George Platzman, the University of Chicago professor responsible for acquiring the great collection of first editions housed in the Regenstein Library there (and which, as many of you know, are also available online). He passed away before he could finish the site, so there are several portraits and/or images that ought to be there that aren't.

Jeff

Thanks, Jeff.

All those portraits, and we still barely know what he looked like.

Seeing the Clesinger bust and the death mask directly next to each other made it clear how many little improvements the sculptor made; I'd been thinking that it was more literal than it really is. The bust seems to me like what Our Friend might look like as a sort of perfected heavenly being. Which I guess is reasonable!

Elene

Or if he hadn't just died a protracted death after very debilitating illness.

BTW if Cortot's portrait isn't the Rubio that means it may still be out there somewhere - - -

(if the Russians or the Nazies didn't get it)