Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.5 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
What's Hot!!
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
(ad)
Piano Tuning
How to Tune Pianos
(125ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Piano Buyer Guide
Piano Buyer Spring 2017
(ad)
4th Finger Enigma Resolved!
Schumann's 4th Finger Enigma Resolved!
Who's Online Now
43 registered members (Beemer, alfredo capurso, AZNpiano, Agent88, ando, 5 invisible), 1,778 guests, and 1 spider.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 68 of 277 1 2 66 67 68 69 70 276 277
#979454 - 06/01/07 09:47 AM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin  
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,428
Mary-Rose Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Mary-Rose  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,428
Essex, England
Quote
Originally posted by La Sylphide:

To all Chopin fans: today is Mme.Sand's 203 birthday...I was thinking of something special whome ....Just kiddin' smile
Actually her birthday is 1st July, not June. When that day comes perhaps we can plant this on her grave, as a gift from Those Totally Devoted to Chopin laugh

[Linked Image]

(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
#979455 - 06/01/07 09:55 AM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin  
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 51
La Sylphide Offline
Full Member
La Sylphide  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 51
Egypt
Oooops! sorry..I have a REALLY bad memory frown


Sarah

"Time is still the best critic,and patience,the best teacher." Chopin
#979456 - 06/01/07 10:29 AM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin  
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,921
-Frycek Offline
5000 Post Club Member
-Frycek  Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,921
SC Mountains
Ya'll have poison ivy in England?


Slow down and do it right.
[Linked Image]
#979457 - 06/01/07 11:43 AM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin  
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,428
Mary-Rose Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Mary-Rose  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,428
Essex, England
Quote
Originally posted by La Sylphide:
Oooops! sorry..I have a REALLY bad memory frown
Sylphide - don't apologise. I had to look it up.

Frycek - I don't think we do have poison ivy. You'll have to take some to France from America.

(ad ) MusicNotes.com
sheet music search
#979458 - 06/01/07 11:59 AM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin  
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,696
loveschopintoomuch Offline
4000 Post Club Member
loveschopintoomuch  Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,696
Illinois
WOW, Mary Rose, I love you!! 3hearts 3hearts Where did you find these precious gems??

As probably everyone knows, Rubinstein is it, for me...when I was a kid, now and forever. I know he wasn't perfect in his playing and was noted for dropping a lot of notes. But the notes he played were from the soul of a true poet and one who had such a respect and love (and understanding) of Chopin's music that no one, in my opinion, has yet to even come close.

I am in the middle of a garage sale (can't believe I'm doing it again...one last chance at clearing out all the junk in the basement before I die, if this doesn't kill me)...so I won't be able to watch them as I would like (over and over) until tonight. But I wanted to thank you...so THANK YOU!! smile

So funny about Sand and some poison ivy. That's a good idea totally, also do you think we have time to find one of those "man-eating" plants?? I've seen them, if you get too close, one of the petals (or something) opens like a mouth, and grabs at you. I believe it even has teeth! eek

BTW, not that I am in the least bit interested, but just in case I do find one of those plants, where is she buried? I'm a little concerned because Hershey said someone moved into her old apartment in Paris. Just want to be sure she is, indeed, in the ground!! laugh

MaryRose...so grateful to you,

Later all,
Kathleen


After playing Chopin, I feel as if I had been weeping over sins that I had never committed, and mourning over tragedies that were not my own." Oscar Wilde, 1891
#979459 - 06/01/07 12:30 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin  
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 6,163
sotto voce Offline
6000 Post Club Member
sotto voce  Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 6,163
Briarcliff Manor, NY, USA
Thanks to all for your kind thoughts as I still try to shake the remains of last week's virus.

YD, the "Revolutionary" is a piece I haven't taken up since I was a teenager. (It's one of those that I wouldn't have even attempted back then were it not for the encouragement I found in the pithy writing of Alfred Mirovitch, whose Chopin edition I've gushed about recently here .)

If there's sufficient interest in a study group, I'd like to revisit this piece. I've almost considered doing some Hanon regularly solely for the purpose of left-hand dexterity, and I'd much rather work on something musical instead. Each hand gets something different from this étude, of course, but I remember it being enormously beneficial to me.

To anyone else considering studying it: If you think it might be doable for you, then it probably is—assuming your self-assessment is accurate, and your expectations are reasonable.

Most of us aren't planning to become performing professionals, after all, so perfection at full speed doesn't need to be the goal. Let your reach exceed your grasp!

Steven

#979460 - 06/01/07 12:58 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin  
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 590
YD Offline
500 Post Club Member
YD  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 590
San Francisco Bay Area
Quote
Originally posted by Sotto Voce:
Thanks to all for your kind thoughts as I still try to shake the remains of last week's virus.
Hope you feel better soon!
Quote

If there's sufficient interest in a study group, I'd like to revisit this piece. I've almost considered doing some Hanon regularly solely for the purpose of left-hand dexterity, and I'd much rather work on something musical instead. Each hand gets something different from this étude, of course, but I remember it being enormously beneficial to me.
Well, I am not sure how big the interest is there; so far 3 people are interested. Still, there may be others joining in later. If you are up for the task, I'll start the group (I already committed to studying 10/12 anyway).
Quote

To anyone else considering studying it: If you think it might be doable for you, then it probably is—assuming your self-assessment is accurate, and your expectations are reasonable.

Most of us aren't planning to become performing professionals, after all, so perfection at full speed doesn't need to be the goal. Let your reach exceed your grasp!
It really is true. A few comments: 1) the etude sounds just fine starting at the tempo of about 120, which is manageable by about anyone. 2) it actually sounds nice at 120. There are plenty of amatures on youtube playing it, it is kind of easy to fine a slower one. Here is an example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0YYAVtTb74
(of course, the proper speed is much faster, see here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hOKcdZJJFU&mode=related&search=
)


Yuri
FWIW; YMMV
#979461 - 06/01/07 03:13 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin  
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,696
loveschopintoomuch Offline
4000 Post Club Member
loveschopintoomuch  Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,696
Illinois
Forgive me for jumping over to the Pianist Corner for the following. I thought it would make for interesting reading here.

Would You Fall in Love with Chopin?

Kathleen


After playing Chopin, I feel as if I had been weeping over sins that I had never committed, and mourning over tragedies that were not my own." Oscar Wilde, 1891
#979462 - 06/01/07 03:45 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin  
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,696
loveschopintoomuch Offline
4000 Post Club Member
loveschopintoomuch  Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,696
Illinois
That composition, the 10/12, was the very first Chopin I ever heard. I think I was about 10. Then my uncle told me it was written by a Pole, only 19 or so, as a way of expressing his anger and rage of what was happening in his homeland and to his friends and family after being invaded by the Russians.

I could not believe that such music could come from such a young person and even more importantly, how he could express his emotions so powerfully yet so poignantly. I was dumbfounded, and I admit, hearing it brought tears to my eyes.

This was during the time when dumb Polish jokes were all the rage. Most of you are far too young to remember, but (just like all ethnic groups have sufferred) the Poles were choice pickins' for those of small minds and even smaller hearts. The intitals DP were once meant to mean Displaced Person. But somehow, they became "Dumb Polacks." I won't go into the obvious on how such ridicule and ignorance affected me, but suffice to say my pride in being Polish hungered for something, someone who could prove everyone wrong. Of course, I knew of Marie Curie and Copernicus and Paderewski, but for some reason, they seemed too distant and rather dry for the hero I sought.

But then, there he was, in full glory...and with music that not only lifted my spirits and elevated my pride but spoke to me in a language I had never heard before.

So that particular composition has so much meaning to me that I doubt (even if I had the skills, which I don't) I could ever play it. I just wouldn't be able to get through it.

Sorry, I know that I, along with a few others, do seem to get emotionally caught up. But that's what this particular thread was created for. At least, I had hoped that people could use it as a way of expressing what and how they felt about Chopin...not just his music, but also for him, as a man. And...anything else they wanted to write.

So...the above is what I felt like writing right now. smile

Regards,
Kathleen


After playing Chopin, I feel as if I had been weeping over sins that I had never committed, and mourning over tragedies that were not my own." Oscar Wilde, 1891
#979463 - 06/01/07 03:51 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin  
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,428
Mary-Rose Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Mary-Rose  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,428
Essex, England
Etude 10/12 fans: I have several recordings of this and to me the outstanding one is by Angela Lear. Let's face it, this is a bit of a hackneyed piece, an old warhorse. Magnificent as it is we do hear it far too often. But when I first heard A.L.'s interpretation a couple of years ago it was as though I were hearing it for the first time again. It has the passion and drama we have grown to expect, but she also brings out nuances that I hadn't noticed before that I can best describe as a yearning quality. This piece was written by a very young man newly exiled from the home he loved, and that is what she makes it sound like. Her performance is a real ear-opener.

#979464 - 06/01/07 04:18 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin  
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,696
loveschopintoomuch Offline
4000 Post Club Member
loveschopintoomuch  Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,696
Illinois
MaryRose: I've heard of gender changes, but never complete species changes. You've gone from a sweet, tiny kitten to an almost, but not quite, ferocious, large dog. Goodness!!

Care to tell us what brought this on?

Kathleen


After playing Chopin, I feel as if I had been weeping over sins that I had never committed, and mourning over tragedies that were not my own." Oscar Wilde, 1891
#979465 - 06/01/07 05:11 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin  
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,651
gerg Offline
1000 Post Club Member
gerg  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,651
Houston, TX
Quote
Originally posted by maryrose:
He really understood Chopin, I feel, as no other pianist did. He also had a great sense of humour - did you notice he said something like "you must never thump with Chopin - " - looking impishly over his shoulder with his blind old eyes - "not like Liszt!"
Yes he certainly did understand Chopin!

I've devoted... gee, guess it's been a few years now, trying to figure out the Rubinstein "sound" on some of his easier pieces. Trois Mouvements Perpétuels (Poulenc), esp. the first and third movements, is one of my repertoire works - inspired by AR, as are most of the works I pick up. (I dare not deign to attempt this with his Chopin, as I struggle just to play the notes let alone capture the nuances of one of the greatest pianists who ever lived).

With Mouvements, which is a relatively easy work, what is it that provides the unique Rubinstein sound? Was it the Steinway he always used? I don't think so, since having acquired a real grand I can get closer. I think it's a combination of dynamics, pedaling, and phrasing - and the whole is greater than its component parts. In one measure in the third movement (Alerte), he playes a different LH chord progression than in every score I've seen (three scores total). I had to listen to this over, and over, and over until I figured out that chord progression he used, and that is how I now play it even though my score shows something different.

Also, in another Poulenc piece performed by AR, in a passage consisting of steadily descending RH sixths, he plays them all as eight notes. The score has the first two as a dotted eight, then a sixteenth. I will play it AR's way regardless of what the score says - he knew Poulenc personally as they were contemporaries.

Sorry for all this about Poulenc on a Chopin thread. The point is, AR was magical, and easily worthy of imitation (to the extent our pitiful skills by comparison permit).


http://www.ecital.net
Wikicital: A collaborative effort to build a knowledgebase of classical music history combined with examples. Your chance to both perform and write...

Don't click here!
#979466 - 06/01/07 05:20 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin  
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,428
Mary-Rose Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Mary-Rose  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,428
Essex, England
Gerg, on the Rubinstein video we watched I thought it was incredible how just a very slight difference in emphasis within that repeated fragment of melody in the Ballade completely changed its mood - his version immediately sounded "right". I agree with you that Rubinstein's sound is irreplaceable, worthy of emulation yet impossible to recreate.

#979467 - 06/01/07 05:32 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin  
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,651
gerg Offline
1000 Post Club Member
gerg  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,651
Houston, TX
Exactly. It completely changed the mood. What a musical brain it took to detect and apply that level of nuance.

A more obvious example of that is in Etude 10/3 - right at the opening of the second theme, measure 22b, repeated but slightly softer. In that case, Chopin explicitly marked it in the score, so it's not difficult to play it that way.

What set Rubinstein apart was his ability to add yet even finer nuance not present in the score yet not contrary thereto. He certainly had the technique for the bravado and brought it out well - but every contemporary pianist seems to have and focus on this. Martha Agrerich is a perfect example, as are many of the young virtuosos coming from the Far East. Louder. Faster. Often, as AR alluded, "thumping away".

Rubinstein's fine control and sensitivity to every nuance I don't believe will ever be duplicated. He seemed to channel the composer's exact intentions which transcendently "click" within the minds of his listeners: they sound so right, yet it is so hard to articulate exactly why.


http://www.ecital.net
Wikicital: A collaborative effort to build a knowledgebase of classical music history combined with examples. Your chance to both perform and write...

Don't click here!
#979468 - 06/01/07 05:57 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin  
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 6,163
sotto voce Offline
6000 Post Club Member
sotto voce  Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 6,163
Briarcliff Manor, NY, USA
I know that we all have very different backgrounds and levels of experience. I'm curious about something that concerns us all, and I wonder to what extent it's already been discussed here and elsewhere: technique, and technique-building.

One often hears someone say that they don't have the requisite skills to attempt a certain piece. Should one have those skills first, or should one look to acquire those skills through the study of the piece in question?

I guess there's no hard-and-fast answer, but the question must be a fundamental one to piano pedagogy—something I know nothing about! My experience with lessons was quite limited as a child (and very brief as a teen), so I don't even know much about being on the receiving end of formal piano instruction.

In my own admittedly anomalous experience, my technique made a quantum leap as a teenager when I pushed myself beyond what had been my limits. Alfred Mirovitch made me feel as though Chopin études should be no more intimidating than Czerny's, and I went along with my instinct that I could "do it."

(Background: As a child, I had been home-schooled in piano before I ever had lessons. Then, I had teachers who skipped all the typical building blocks of technique. My only Mozart was the "easy" sonata in C, my only Beethoven Fuer Elise and the rondo of the sonata pathétique. No Scarlatti, no Clementi, no Haydn. No Schumann, no Brahms, no Liszt. No Bartok or Kabalevsky. After lots of Burgmueller, I was given Rimsky-Korsakov's Flight of the Bumblebee as a showpiece, and learned salon composer Auguste Durand's two-piano Chaconne as a recital piece. My Chopin was on the level of the easier waltzes, easier preludes and nocturnes.)

During the three periods I've returned to piano as an adult, I proceeded with the same confidence I had found as a teen. I've always been drawn to the "advanced" Chopin pieces that I imagined might be within my powers, and I've never had to give up on one because I found it beyond me. Over the years, I've learned the bolero, the tarantella, the polonaise Op. 53, and études 10/1, 10/2, 10/3, 10/4, 10/7, 10/8, 10/12, 25/1, 25/6, and trois nouvelles #1.

When I returned to piano most recently, on the occasion of my 50th birthday in August 2006, I decided that the fantaisie in f minor would push my "technique" (such as it is!) perhaps a step beyond. (At the very least, it's probably the longest piece I've ever studied.) It's coming along fine, and it would be a huge thrill to feel this coming from my own fingers even if it were one of Chopin's hackneyed war-horses!

The most severe challenge I put myself to was probably not the fantaisie, though, but rather the "thirds" étude. I first heard it when I was about five years old on a 78-rpm disc from a thrift shop, got ahold of the score, and pronounced it impossible. When I was 44, I took another look and asked myself how it could be impossible. Why should that be? Lo and behold, the biggest problem was sightreading something so "impossibly" chromatic! Once I had the notes under my fingers at very slow speed, I could play it—never reaching full speed, of course, but who cares?

I guess my point is that you can't know what you can, and cannot, accomplish unless you push yourself. I'd never want to encourage anyone to do anything potentially harmful, or not to follow the advice of a teacher, but I think that sometimes our very reverence for certain composers and certain pieces—which, of course, they deserve!—can make us feel like we're not worthy even to attempt them ourselves.

In the late 1980s, I had an experience with Charles Cooke's Playing the Piano for Pleasure that mirrored my previous one with Mirovitch. Cooke is an amateur (in the truest, most literal sense), and his words speak to all of us here with their common-sense encouragement and wisdom. But Cooke is quick, too, to acknowledge—emphasize, even—that even he considers certain pieces to be out of his reach.

I forget which pieces Cooke described as his personal massive oak trees—unyielding to even the most determined persistence, given what he considered his own limitations. But Chopin's b minor scherzo, Op. 20, was not among them! He tackled it, and learned it to his satisfaction—on his own. My oldest friend learned the barcarolle with the same determined perseverance.

There will be unbending oak trees for all of us, but I believe we gain the technique required for the more modest "trees" by attempting to learn them. And if we can't, then we put that piece down, either for now or forever. Trying to learn a really hard piece is sort of a self-filtering process: If it's truly beyond you, you'll soon know it. If not, you will thereby gain the skills needed to play it.

By the way, these are among the "oak trees" in Chopin that I still wouldn't dare approach: the sonatas (and I love all four of them), the fourth ballade, the allegro de concert, the second piano concerto. And there's plenty of stuff in the standard literature that I wouldn't attempt, either: much Liszt, much Scriabin, most Prokofiev, certainly anything by Ligeti or Sorabji. But never say never!

That's just my two cents' worth. I'd love for others to share their feelings about our own limitations (and how we might impose them upon ourselves), and the whole nature/nurture thing (i.e., innate talents vs. learned abilities).

Thanks for reading!

Steven

#979469 - 06/01/07 07:42 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin  
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,651
gerg Offline
1000 Post Club Member
gerg  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,651
Houston, TX
Quote
Originally posted by Sotto Voce:

One often hears someone say that they don't have the requisite skills to attempt a certain piece. Should one have those skills first, or should one look to acquire those skills through the study of the piece in question?
This dovetails very nicely with the AR discussion above.

The second - with a caveat: A young child or teenager (usually male) studying a (difficult) piece so he can play it just to show off will likely lead to bad technique and bad habits. The piece played by this performer will too often end up butchered, even assuming the correct notes are played. The artistry of the piece - even an etude - will also in all likelihood get lost. Been there, done that.

Quote
Originally posted by Sotto Voce:
In my own admittedly anomalous experience, my technique made a quantum leap as a teenager when I pushed myself beyond what had been my limits. Alfred Mirovitch made me feel as though Chopin études should be no more intimidating than Czerny's, and I went along with my instinct that I could "do it."
There ya go smile Attitude meets reality, patiently but relentlessly pushing the latter ever toward that final goal.

Quote
Originally posted by Sotto Voce:
I guess my point is that you can't know what you can, and cannot, accomplish unless you push yourself. I'd never want to encourage anyone to do anything potentially harmful, or not to follow the advice of a teacher, but I think that sometimes our very reverence for certain composers and certain pieces—which, of course, they deserve!—can make us feel like we're not worthy even to attempt them ourselves.
Bingo! In my experience most of the obstacles are mental.

Quote
Originally posted by Sotto Voce:
There will be unbending oak trees for all of us, but I believe we gain the technique required for the more modest "trees" by attempting to learn them. And if we can't, then we put that piece down, either for now or forever. Trying to learn a really hard piece is sort of a self-filtering process: If it's truly beyond you, you'll soon know it. If not, you will thereby gain the skills needed to play it.
If these arboreal giants are not counted among the works that speak so sweetly and earnestly to our hearts... then who cares? I believe this gets back to motivation - are we playing to showcase skills, perhaps to compensate for personal insecurities... or are we playing from the heart, as a gift of love to our listeners, a glimpse into our innermost being?


http://www.ecital.net
Wikicital: A collaborative effort to build a knowledgebase of classical music history combined with examples. Your chance to both perform and write...

Don't click here!
#979470 - 06/01/07 07:52 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin  
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,651
gerg Offline
1000 Post Club Member
gerg  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,651
Houston, TX
To follow up on that (and to bring this back to Chopin) - Op. 20 (B-minor Scherzo) is sadly not one of those pieces that speaks to me. The Op. 31 Scherzo, by contrast, may be slightly easier but is a piece I absolutely love and, having listened to it since a young boy, has become a part of my very personality. It is a piece I will devote years to, when ready. I learned the first three or four pages in youth, but have never really given it the full attention it deserves.

Ditto for the #3 Ballade, Op. 47, followed closely by the #2, Op. 38. #1 I also love but since it is so widely played (granted #3 is as well) I would rather play #2 because it deserves more exposure.


http://www.ecital.net
Wikicital: A collaborative effort to build a knowledgebase of classical music history combined with examples. Your chance to both perform and write...

Don't click here!
#979471 - 06/01/07 09:18 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin  
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,696
loveschopintoomuch Offline
4000 Post Club Member
loveschopintoomuch  Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,696
Illinois
I don't know where to begin, but since when has that ever stopped me?? laugh

I viewed not only Rubinstein's master class video but also watched/listened to the 2nd concerto.

I agree with MaryRose that the sight of that "angel"...his hair, almost a halo was a bit emotional. The reason, of course, is seeing this absolute genius having to fumble to find his way on the piano. But, then, I think of the 8+ decades, that he soared like the giant that he was, and the heart is somewhat lighten. Yes, his humor was still here (perhaps that's what helped him live as long as he did, for he loved his wine, women and cigars!).

I loved the way he used his arms to sweep out the melody for the young pianist. It is, after all, Chopin...and Chopin was all about the melody. I doubt if there are more than a handful of his compositions that I can't hum or la la all the way through. They're singable!! thumb How he loved the human voice and wanted to reproduce it as much as possible in his music. It was the song, pure and relatively simple.

How AR tried to explain that a certain section was the melody, not an embellishment and how delicate the nuance is between the two in one particular case. And to play noble means to play with dignity, which he did his whole life. He has proven that he was NOT the sentimentalist or rubato king that many claim him to be. He was an absolute purist, I believe, in his approach to how he played Chopin's music. Just like Chopin, himself...always in good taste, never anything overly done or ostentatious. I hope to watch it many times, for I missed a lot of what he said, my hearing and my lousy laptop speaker are to blame.

Then, along with Andre Previn (whom I think is great) he played my favorite concerto. What a difference in, if nothing else, how he sits at the piano and the expression on his face. No wild body language with flinging the arms up in the air and the body swaying, head rolling, eyes open then closed then clinched. Perfect dignity again. Just goes to show that all that silly stuff does not add one single thing to the quality of the performance. All it does is make the performer look ridiculous. Oh, I think I did see him raise his eyebrow, ever so slightly, in the second movement. Otherwise, absolute deadpan of a face, eyes down, except when looking at the conductor.

I didn't move for the whole concerto. It was magic. I opened a new topic, entitled...And you wonder why we love Chopin...and then included a link to the second movement. Maybe a few will find the beauty so obvious here and will hop aboard our "wagon."

Now Sotto Voce: This is about the 4th time you have posted something that was right on the tip of my fingers. We are definitely on some kind of weird wave length. What's your sign?? wink Just kidding. thumb

Hey, I'm even an inspiration to myself, when I come to think of it. yippie

Good night all,
Kathleen


After playing Chopin, I feel as if I had been weeping over sins that I had never committed, and mourning over tragedies that were not my own." Oscar Wilde, 1891
#979472 - 06/02/07 05:33 AM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin  
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,651
gerg Offline
1000 Post Club Member
gerg  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,651
Houston, TX
That's the spirit, Kathleen!!! thumb

Clicking around in YouTube found a VERY SOUND interpretation of Op 38 by Zimmerman:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=MsoUIBcl7iw


http://www.ecital.net
Wikicital: A collaborative effort to build a knowledgebase of classical music history combined with examples. Your chance to both perform and write...

Don't click here!
#979473 - 06/02/07 10:19 AM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin  
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 368
DeepElem Offline
Full Member
DeepElem  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 368
USA
I know I've seen some comments along the lines of "Martha Argerich butchers Chopin", but I watched the videos of Martha Argerich plays the Chopin Preludes (there are 4 parts) and I don't get the reason to dislike her interpretations. Note there is a really annoying buzz in the audio. I watched it all the way through despite the buzz, but I can understand if you can't get through even 30 seconds, that buzz is really annoying.

Now, I know very little about classical music, and certainly do not have much experience listening to different performers interpret the Chopin Preludes, so I ask as a matter of educating myself a bit - What is wrong with the way Martha Argerich performed the Preludes ?


------
If you knew what you were doing, you'd probably be bored.
- Fresco's Law
#979474 - 06/02/07 10:26 AM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin  
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,696
loveschopintoomuch Offline
4000 Post Club Member
loveschopintoomuch  Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,696
Illinois
Now that we've watch Rubinstein and his utter lack of emoting while playing, I find (although perhaps unfairly so) myself judging other pianists, like the obviously very talented Zimmerman, to Rubinstein's approach. Again, I know this is purely a personal opinion and certainly highly biased in nature. But what's with all the drama here? It's bad enough that his good looks make watching him distracting, but add the body language and such...gee. It's difficult to concentrate on his performance.

But I did manage to get ahold of myself and listen. He's wonderful!!

Kathleen


After playing Chopin, I feel as if I had been weeping over sins that I had never committed, and mourning over tragedies that were not my own." Oscar Wilde, 1891
#979475 - 06/02/07 10:55 AM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin  
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,428
Mary-Rose Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Mary-Rose  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,428
Essex, England
I find the same, Kathleen - Zimerman is better listened to with the eyes closed smile

DeepElem - my personal view of Argerich's playing of the 24 Preludes is that she performs the rapid, dramatic, fiery ones beautifully (I love her version of number 12, for instance). But if you would only listen to them being played by Rubinstein you will hear the difference in a way that is clearer than words could describe.

#979476 - 06/02/07 11:36 AM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin  
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 368
DeepElem Offline
Full Member
DeepElem  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 368
USA
Quote
Originally posted by maryrose:
if you would only listen to them being played by Rubinstein you will hear the difference in a way that is clearer than words could describe
Any particular prelude where you think the difference is the most dramatic ?


------
If you knew what you were doing, you'd probably be bored.
- Fresco's Law
#979477 - 06/02/07 11:43 AM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin  
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,696
loveschopintoomuch Offline
4000 Post Club Member
loveschopintoomuch  Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,696
Illinois
Hi Buck: I'll just drop in my 2 cents here. Since I am just trying to polish the 17th, I've listened to five different performers..Rubinstein, Askenazy (sp), Brailowsky, Ohllson (sp?) and Argerich. Without a doubt, she plays this beautiful piece like she's late for dinner. No comparison to the other performers. So sorry about spelling. I'm out in the garage tending to my garage sale, so I can't leave to look up the correct spelling.

Anyhow...

Kathleen


After playing Chopin, I feel as if I had been weeping over sins that I had never committed, and mourning over tragedies that were not my own." Oscar Wilde, 1891
#979478 - 06/02/07 02:49 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin  
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,428
Mary-Rose Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Mary-Rose  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,428
Essex, England
Yes Kathleen, I agree that the performance of number 17 is a case in point. It has a lushness that needs to be lingered over, not stampeded. Although Cortot somehow managed the same time as Argerich (two and a half minutes as opposed to three and a third minutes by Rubinstein) whilst still attaining a satisfying tenderness. Oh, it's so difficult to put these things into words!

#979479 - 06/02/07 04:09 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin  
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,117
Ragnhild Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Ragnhild  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,117
Norway
I think the way Argerich plays the prelude no 6 is very beautiful, and who says there are only one "right" interpretation of a piece ? ?

Ragnhild


Trying to play the piano:
http://www.box.net/public/dbr23ll03e
#979480 - 06/02/07 04:53 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin  
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,696
loveschopintoomuch Offline
4000 Post Club Member
loveschopintoomuch  Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,696
Illinois
No one says there is only one correct way. smile

And who ever believes this is foolish. It's all a matter of preference. Of what the music is saying to us personally, how we feel it should be said, and how we are moved by a certain interpretation, and not by another...even if it is the same piece.

So, it's just opinion, that all. There's an old song...one line in the lyrics goes...

You say to ma toes.
And I say to may toes.


thumb Kathleen


After playing Chopin, I feel as if I had been weeping over sins that I had never committed, and mourning over tragedies that were not my own." Oscar Wilde, 1891
#979481 - 06/02/07 04:58 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin  
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,366
playadom Offline
1000 Post Club Member
playadom  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,366
New Jersey
Quote
Originally posted by gerg: A young child or teenager (usually male) studying a (difficult) piece so he can play it just to show off will likely lead to bad technique and bad habits. The piece played by this performer will too often end up butchered, even assuming the correct notes are played. The artistry of the piece - even an etude - will also in all likelihood get lost. Been there, done that.
[/QB]
Hmm... That sounds just like me and my Hungarian Rhapsody 2.


Practice makes permanent - Perfect practice makes perfect.
#979482 - 06/02/07 04:59 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin  
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,651
gerg Offline
1000 Post Club Member
gerg  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,651
Houston, TX
Don't worry, it was me too when I was your age. Nothing to be ashamed of. Fact is, you will probably achieve musical maturity sooner and not waste as many years.


http://www.ecital.net
Wikicital: A collaborative effort to build a knowledgebase of classical music history combined with examples. Your chance to both perform and write...

Don't click here!
#979483 - 06/02/07 05:29 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin  
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,428
Mary-Rose Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Mary-Rose  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,428
Essex, England
Quote
Originally posted by Ragnhild:
I think the way Argerich plays the prelude no 6 is very beautiful, and who says there are only one "right" interpretation of a piece ? ?

Ragnhild
Hei, Ragnhild! I just had a listen to Argerich's interpretation of the 6th Prelude and it is indeed lovely.

Page 68 of 277 1 2 66 67 68 69 70 276 277

Moderated by  BB Player, casinitaly 

Piano Acc. & Gift Items in
Piano World's Online Store
In PianoSupplies.com ,(a division of Piano World)
our online store for piano and music gifts and accessories, Digital Piano Dolly, party goods, tuning equipment, piano moving equipment, benches, lamps Caster Cups and more.


Free Shipping* on Jansen Artist Piano Benches, Cocoweb Piano Lamps, Hidrau Hydraulic Piano Benches
(*free shipping within contiguous U.S. only)
(ad)
Pearl River & Ritmuller
Pearl River Pianos
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq 6 Out now
(ad)
Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restorations and sales
ad
Pierce Piano Atlas


New Topics - Multiple Forums
Can I Run Roland RD700nx Through Stereo Speakers?
by ClsscLib. 10/20/17 09:19 PM
Improve your sight reading series
by Scottswald. 10/20/17 06:34 PM
Piano with a harpsichord lever?
by Upex. 10/20/17 06:26 PM
Forum Statistics
Forums44
Topics182,406
Posts2,666,096
Members89,007
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Check It Out!
There's a lot more to Piano World than just the forums.
Click Here to
Explore The Rest of Piano World!!
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2017 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0