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Re: So, how good are you?....(honest assessment) #972586
07/22/08 11:13 PM
07/22/08 11:13 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,091
Richmond, VA
plays88skeys Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by Oxfords Gal:
I don't know about these rating systems. This is classified as early intermediate but it looks more like beginners to me. If this is early Intermediate then I'm in the Intermediate category.

From what I've seen so far, lots of people are really underating themselves. Some of the people who say they're beginners are really Intermediate. They play like someone who has had at least 3 years of lessons.

http://www.sheetmusicplus.com/store...cm_mmc=smp-_-detail-_-lookinside-_-image
Yes, that definitely looks like early intermediate to me, because of all the intervals. Intervals are not usually introduced until the rudiments are in place.


There are no shortcuts to any place worth going. - Beverly Sills
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Re: So, how good are you?....(honest assessment) #972587
07/22/08 11:26 PM
07/22/08 11:26 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,091
Richmond, VA
plays88skeys Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by sotto voce:
I don't believe that the guideline to levels at Sheet Music Plus should be taken too seriously. It reads as though someone took a traditional scale, lopped the advanced portion off entirely and then redistributed the remainder (i.e., what should be intermediate is now inflated to advanced, and what should be advanced is off the chart entirely).

I didn't glean this immediately from the skills or musical devices cited for the various levels, as I know nothing about pedagogy. It's more apparent from the repertoire cited in the "Examples" column. Just to mention a couple dubious ones: Burgmüller's Opus 100 is listed as intermediate (!), and Brahms' Rhapsodies Op. 79 are in the most advanced spot (10 on a scale of 0 to 10).

I can understand that it might be unrealistic to include virtuoso showpieces on the scale (because, after all, how many people reach that level?)—but a big range of difficult music that's a standard part of the piano repertoire (and to which serious, skilled students can reasonably aspire) is simply ignored here.

FWIW, here\'s a link to a chart of graded classical pieces in which the standards are much more aggressive.

Steven
Thank you for posting the link to that chart. When I have time (and can remember to get a new ink cartridge!) I'll print it out. Where did it come from? I like it far better than the RCM syllabus I sometimes refer to.

NO WONDER I struggled so much with LvB's Andante Favori before abandoning it altogether - it's rated an 8, while his Pastorale sonata is a 7. NO WONDER my current piece, Schumann's Vogel als Prophet, is coming along very s-l-o-w-l-y. It's also an 8. Schumann is really very easy...as long as you have three hands. :rolleyes:


There are no shortcuts to any place worth going. - Beverly Sills
Re: So, how good are you?....(honest assessment) #972588
07/22/08 11:30 PM
07/22/08 11:30 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 175
Singapore
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Bihua Offline
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Singapore
Looking at all the different definitions of the levels, I think I am in the "Intermediate" category.

To me, is more like, if you know how to read the score and you keep practising that same piece over and over again, slowly perfecting it. Then you are advanced in that piece. But when a new piece comes, you are back to beginner... or is it because I have poor sight reading ability and my fingers just refuse to cooperate.

Is like drawing a circle with left hand and a rectangle with right hand, and keep practising. But once I switch over, I am back to beginner.

Re: So, how good are you?....(honest assessment) #972589
07/22/08 11:38 PM
07/22/08 11:38 PM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 6,163
Briarcliff Manor, NY, USA
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Quote
Originally posted by plays88skeys:
Thank you for posting the link to that chart. When I have time (and can remember to get a new ink cartridge!) I'll print it out. Where did it come from? I like it far better than the RCM syllabus I sometimes refer to.
There was a link to it in a previous thread about levels and grades, and I had bookmarked it. I don't even who compiled it or if it's consistently credible (since my own knowledge of repertoire outside of my own narrow experience is so limited), but it seemed to provide a useful contrast in the context of this discussion.

Steven

Re: So, how good are you?....(honest assessment) #972590
07/23/08 12:30 AM
07/23/08 12:30 AM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,417
funburger Offline
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how good am i???

hmmm, better than i was 2 years ago :p


If it ain't fun I ain't doin' it:)
Re: So, how good are you?....(honest assessment) #972591
07/23/08 02:20 AM
07/23/08 02:20 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 399
Chicagoland
tickler Offline
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Chicagoland
Beginning Advanced -- based on the links to various grading systems.

Mary


Music should strike fire from the heart of man, and bring tears from the eyes of woman. -- Beethoven
Re: So, how good are you?....(honest assessment) #972592
07/23/08 07:23 AM
07/23/08 07:23 AM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,553
Jacksonville, Florida
Oxfords Gal Offline
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Jacksonville, Florida
Quote
Yes, that definitely looks like early intermediate to me, because of all the intervals. Intervals are not usually introduced until the rudiments are in place.
Ahhhh I see now. Thanks for the explanation.


Fuzzy Wuzzy was a bear, Fuzzy Wuzzy had no hair.>>> Herman Munster
Re: So, how good are you?....(honest assessment) #972593
07/23/08 08:56 AM
07/23/08 08:56 AM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 17,220
Canada
keystring Offline
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Canada
I haven't posted because I haven't a clue. I do like the chart, though.

Re: So, how good are you?....(honest assessment) #972594
07/23/08 09:14 AM
07/23/08 09:14 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,462
Denver, CO
DragonPianoPlayer Offline
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DragonPianoPlayer  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,462
Denver, CO
Oxford's Gal,

SheetMusicPlus rates it as early intermediate because
Quote

Independent movement of the left hand. Multiple chords in a measure, and the introduction of triplets.
I don't see the independent movement of the left hand on the first page, it might be on a later page. I do however, see the left hand chords being held for multiple measures - which to me implies that a certain degree of stamina is required.

The description of the piece indicates that the publisher considers this late elementary.

This just goes to show that there is no one way to determine the level of a particular piece.

Rich


[Linked Image] [Linked Image]
Re: So, how good are you?....(honest assessment) #972595
07/23/08 09:40 AM
07/23/08 09:40 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,462
Denver, CO
DragonPianoPlayer Offline
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,462
Denver, CO
Soto Voice,

The levels on sheet music plus are aimed at educators or students. This scale corresponds pretty well with the skills introduced at each level in an older book on teaching piano written by James Bastien. (I can't remember the name, but you can probably find it from that info. I believe there is a newer edition still in print.) I think it is a very valid scale from an educational stand point.

The chart you posted, which I also use, seems aimed at classical repertoire from an examination standpoint. IMO, there is an assumption of 1 - 2 years experience mastering basic technique before it starts in at level 1. It also stops with only a limited number of pieces it grades a U. It does not go up to a point where someone is able to play Islamey by Balakirev - a notoriously difficult piano piece. Nothing wrong with these limitations, it just has a different set of goals.

I have two other books I use for comparing levels of pieces. Jane Magrath "The Pianist's Guide to Standard Teach and Performance Literature" is set up with levels from 1 to 10. This is aimed at helping a teacher find suitable repertoire for a student. It also cuts off the very advanced pieces and does not really allow for the experience needed to get started playing piano.

The other book I have is "A Practicatl Guide To Solo Piano Music" by Trevor Barnard. This book grades by four levels - Level 1 is "intermediate" described as already fairly proficient, level 2 is the level of a undergraduate college piano major, level 3 is the level of a graduate college piano major or advanced upper graduate, and level 4 is labeled virtuoso.

The point is that all of these different scales are valid. They are just different viewpoints based on how we choose to view our progress. If my goal was to play Islamey, and I was using Trevor Barnard's scale, I would be about a -10. laugh

Rich


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Re: So, how good are you?....(honest assessment) #972596
07/23/08 08:15 PM
07/23/08 08:15 PM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 358
Hampton, Virginia
piano4 Offline
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Thanks for the chart! It is interesting to see what pieces are included. And I thought Serenade from String Quartet, Op 3 was difficult for this early intermediate/intermediate player.

I enjoy the challenge of learning and playing:-)


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Re: So, how good are you?....(honest assessment) #972597
07/23/08 08:19 PM
07/23/08 08:19 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,527
Jersey Shore
M
Mark... Offline
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,527
Jersey Shore
Quote
Originally posted by funburger:
how good am i???

hmmm, better than i was 2 years ago :p
I have seen and heard you play Funburger and you truly have a gift to play and play very well...

Re: So, how good are you?....(honest assessment) #972598
07/24/08 03:05 AM
07/24/08 03:05 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 588
West Australia
Late Beginner Offline
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Late Beginner  Offline
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West Australia
Hi,

I'm a terrific all round musician. It just doesn't show yet. laugh

As far as piano playing goes, I'm still in short pants clutching a teddy bear and sucking my thumb.

As far as other instruments, and general musicianship goes I'm probably at the surly, pouty, spotty teen stage. Just look out when I'm grown up enough to get my Artistic Licence though..... Boy, I'll be laying down some rubber then for sure...watch out world I'm comin' to get ya... :rolleyes:

Chris


Who needs feet of clay? I can get into enough trouble with feet made of regular foot stuff...
Re: So, how good are you?....(honest assessment) #972599
07/24/08 09:32 AM
07/24/08 09:32 AM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 102
California
Ovaltine Offline
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California
I think I'm solidly intermediate. I'm told I'm musical, but it takes me a long time to learn a piece such that I can express that musicality.


Estonia L190 #6826 [Linked Image]
Re: So, how good are you?....(honest assessment) #972600
07/24/08 09:41 AM
07/24/08 09:41 AM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,674
Spokane WA
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gmm1 Offline
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,674
Spokane WA
Quote
Originally posted by keystring:
I haven't posted because I haven't a clue. I do like the chart, though.
Me too. Not a clue. Some intermediate seems "easy" (relative term), and some beginner is still beyond me.

But, after a little thought, I guess I am the best I've ever been up to now. Tomorrow starts a brand new assesment.


"There is nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself." Johann Sebastian Bach/Gyro
Re: So, how good are you?....(honest assessment) #972601
07/24/08 10:05 AM
07/24/08 10:05 AM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,192
Torquay, Devon, England
cruiser Offline
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Torquay, Devon, England
Quote
Originally posted by LisztAddict:
I am in the I-suck-big-time category. I am totally incapable of performing in front of people.
...ok, who are you kidding LA? Just take a listen to LA's stuff in the member's recordings forum folks - you'll see what I mean... he's off the scale, at the advanced end! smile

...as for me - intermediate-ish


Michael
Re: So, how good are you?....(honest assessment) #972602
07/24/08 10:47 AM
07/24/08 10:47 AM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,921
SC Mountains
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SC Mountains
I want to be Liszt Addict when I grow up.


Slow down and do it right.
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Re: So, how good are you?....(honest assessment) #972603
07/24/08 11:18 AM
07/24/08 11:18 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 7
Mass
J
Jeff C Offline
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Jeff C  Offline
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J

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 7
Mass
Newbe who's been lurking for along time.......

I'm at "cheerful bumbling hack"...lol...

If there was a "king of intos" choice..that would be me... I never finish anything....

Re: So, how good are you?....(honest assessment) #972604
07/24/08 11:32 AM
07/24/08 11:32 AM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 753
Abbotsford, BC, Canada
pianoexcellence Offline
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Good enough to teach


Music is the surest path to excellence

Jeremy BA, ARCT, RMT
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Re: So, how good are you?....(honest assessment) #972605
07/24/08 12:08 PM
07/24/08 12:08 PM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 8,483
Ohio, USA
signa Offline
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i might still be intermediate, which i said about 2 years ago to my teacher. since i have improved, i might be roughly advanced intermediate.

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