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In theory rudiments I learned the characteristics of different kinds of scales, and how to form them. I would like to see and hear where these are actually used. I understand that a scale just gives us a general pattern and isn't necessarily plonked down in pure form in music. But as a general idea I would like to know where these fit in music.

The ones I learned are whole tone scales, pentatonic, octatonic (has 8 different notes, intervals of WHWHWH or HWHWHW, diminished chords throughout).

Would it make sense to ask this in the pianist corner?

IMHO if you are playing the established tune of a piece of music then 99% of the time the Major or natural minor scale is really all you need.

The "other" scales, dare I say modes, are used, as you say, for their characteristic sound or ease of playing.

Pentatonic comes into the ease of playing - in that just the "good notes" have been kept. This comes in handy when improvising. Like I love to improvise with the white keys, not a lot of bad can be done with just white keys. Or for that matter with just the black keys. It's when we start mixing them .....

I ramble --- the blues scale works great because we added the blue note to the minor pentatonic. That blue note makes it have a character of its own. As does the #4 in Lydian or the b7 in Mixolydian.

I think different scales came about because someone liked what the "added character" produced. You asked; "But as a general idea I would like to know where these fit in music." My take on that is anything beyond the Major or natural minor scale is an extension of those scales and meant to satisfy a personal preference.


Now that and $1.62 will get you a gallon of gas in East Texas. If it keeps dropping a gallon of gas and a cup of coffee will be the same price. Think about that for a moment, Coffee is the one that is now really over priced. I ramble...

Malcolm

So are the demagogic idiots in Congress going to investigate the "conspiracy" that's responsible for the falling price of oil or the one responsible for the rising cost of coffee? My guess is both. Anything to keep them from their jobs, I guess.

Of course, it's not a stretch to say that being a Congress person isn't really a job or work by any definition. They're about 99% a collection of people who've never worked a day in their life and probably couldn't hold on to a real job if they had enough initiative to get one..

Keystring,

I think there are essentially 4 ways to improvise, or create melodies over a chord progression:

- Play what you hear
- Play Riffs
- Use Chord tones (& neighbors)
- Use Scales

Many modern pianists choose the scale approach.

To see and hear it, an example is these extraordinary videos:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIjQUxs88rU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Zhzon5qtRc

These are in one particular style, and it's obviously very advanced. But nevertheless, it shows a scalar approach to improvisation.

Take care

Thank you Majones and Knotty. The two links are awesom, Knotty. What a wonderful idea of highlighting the keys while labeling chord & scale type above. I'm still getting used to that kind of notation and have just gotten my feet wet so to say, but I can see and hear roughly what is going on. I do see a number of pentatonic scales (system?) being used, and a couple of modes.

So essentially in improvising music, and I suppose writing music, the musician draws on these as best suits him. That makes sense. After all, we don't make music by playing a major scale, but by playing notes within that structure. Major and minor themselves are sort of modes creating moods and which let other things (harmony, chords) happen inside them.

You have given me a different way of looking at it.

Originally I was taking off on the little bit that I had.
"Octatonic: appears in some 19th century music, esp. Rimsky-Korsakov; in 20th century: Scriabin, Stravinskiy, Bartok; also in jazz" (my dry theory book pontificates.) I scribbled in a small note: minor thirds (giving dim7's) only, what will this do to harmony?

Whole tone: "Debussy: Voiles uses pentatonic + wh. tone - vagueness of tonality'"

Blues: "African-American, bent pitches"

That's what I have. I'm not happy with having just memorized these things. They're not real for me. I can write them down with pencil and paper, and I can play them as a scale. That is rather meaningless in and of itself.

Thank you both for your input.

Good grief! Those are some fast fingers! I think I almost had a seizure watching those.

He sure is good but WAAAAAAY beyond anything I could even imagine doing at this point.