Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Adult Beginners Forum Study group: Liebestraum #3 (Liszt)

Hi Yuri,
I'd love to join a Liszt Devotee thread! As a performer, composer and human being, he was incredibly gifted and so generous. I'm not working on the Liebestraume, but starting Consolation #3 and struggling with the 3 vs 4 rhythm..
I love listening to his music even if I can't play it!

Sophia

Yuri,

Thank you for adding me to the Liszt Liebestraum 3 study group. I want to caution everyone not to have unrealistic expectations for my performance once I get it recorded and posted. The times that I’ve had a clean performance in the past have been very few.

I'm listening to your recital performance of the Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No. 5 as I write this post. Your playing of this rhapsody is magnificent. Based upon this performance, I see no problem with you mastering the Liebestraum. Wow, this is beautiful!

I'm happy that you formed the "ABF Liszt Devotees Society." Would it be asking too much of you to post a short history of your piano study on the Devotees thread? I believe this will lend enthusiasm for the thread and perhaps encourage others to post background information as well.

Once again, thank you for your prompt reply and the inclusion in the group. Pardon me for the oversight in not paying attention to your avatar. At both ages of these avatars, it’s no wonder Liszt made the ladies swoon.

sophial,

I'll post some information to you concerning the Consolation 3 in the Devotees thread.

kawaigirl1,

I'm excited to see your name in the list. With your keyboard knowledge and playing prowess, we will all be beneficiaries of your counsel.

tvpiano,

Thank you for your kind comments.

I wish you and all others in the group much enjoyment with this magnificent work of art by the greatest pianist of his time.

Sincerely,

Lisztener

Hi Lisztener, I'm so happy you had joined in and in fact I will need all the Liszt fans out there to help and guide me through this piece.

Just to report my progress, I'm still trying to learn the notes. The version I'm using is from the free-score.com. I just found this version easier to read where the notes are not all cramed together. I'm starting on the last 2 lines of p5 and the 1st line of p.6 as well as last line of p 2 and first line of p3. This is a very challenging piece and I'm going to say I will be under the slower group in terms of progress.

Greetings:

I am a bit puzzled, what does "poco allegro con affetto" mean in plain terms? I mean, as in b=xxx? This numerically oriented soul (me) is having difficulty translating "a bit fast with affect" into numbers...

Any guidelines for proper tempo in differnt parts?

The reason I ask is that I was bringing the first portion up to speed and got a passing comment "is it really supposed to be played that fast?" So I turned the metronome on and measured my tempo at quarter=180. It sounds fine to my ear, but maybe I just got too much time with this piece and am out of touch with the outside world.

kawaigirl1,

If there is anything I can do to help, please let me know. I'm excited to be in this group and look forward to getting my memory in high gear to post something, soon, so all of you will know how I interpret the piece. I'm glad that you found some sheets that are spread out so you can read them without squinting because the notes are so close together. I'm certainly eager to hear you get this piece up to performance level (no pressure intended) because I know how sensitive your touch is, and to have you playing this beautiful melody will, I'm sure, be a joy to all of us.

Good luck with your practice and remember it's when you least expect it that you have a breakthrough where you jump to a new level of practice in a piece. I'm sure you know this, but I want to help keep you motivated just as I'm sure you want all in the group to stay motivated.

Best of luck,

Lisztener

Yuri,

I always stay up late unless I have something planned for the early A.M. that forces me to retire at an earlier hour. Before taking early retirement in 2001, my work schedule for twenty-eight years was beginning 5:30-6:00 P.M. and ending 2:00-2:30 A.M. (newspaper bidness) Then I would get home and have to unwind for a couple hours before going to bed. Therefore, over the years my metabolic clock has made me a night person. I practice the piano between 7:00-800 P.M. to 10:00-11:00 P.M. My wife and I live in a condominium with common walls between our neighbors on both sides. We have concrete walls that do a good job of noise insulation and I've asked the neighbors if my practicing bothers them and they all say, no. However, there are times that I feel they are being kind, so, tonight I've been over in the digital piano and synthesizer forum trying to get some info on buying a good digital that I can practice on with headphones all through the night if I wish.

I've been procrastinating all day (Saturday) and still have twelve comments to write on the last twelve performers in the most recent recital.

I did not intend to tell you about my sleeping habits, but there you go. Once my mind begins to wander, everything and everywhere is a possibility.

Saturday evening I got in some good practice time with the Liebestraum. I'm not too far away from the dreaded "Red Dot" on my Zoom H4 recorder. I have almost all of it under my fingers (sans cadenzas as you are aware) and the time schedule looks good for maybe less than two weeks before feeling comfortable recording it. Last evening I broke from my usual habit of just waiting for my brain to remember and associate my fingers to the proper notes. I got into the piano bench and retrieved the music for this beauty. It's been so many years that the notes look like ancient hieroglyphics, but there are a couple places that I couldn't get back into memory so I looked at the score and it was (as should be) a helpful thing to do. Wow, I am running on and on. My original purpose was to bring up your puzzlement about the meaning of "poco allegro con affetto."

I have a wonderful link for you and all to a site with much information on musical notation:

http://www.dolmetsch.com/musicalsymbols.htm

Coincidentally, I looked up that very phrase. I didn't find the phrase as noted in the piece, but by putting together the words I came up with an interpretation that reads "Rather quick with emotion." I don't know how quick that may be and I don't play with a metronome. It's 3:30 A.M. here, so I can't go downstairs and play a passage with the metronome or the police will be here post haste. Your setting of 180 sounds fast to me, however, over the years I've heard so many different tempos that my conclusion is to play it at a dreamy pace where the dream has time to develop rather than jumping in and racing as though a posse is on the heels of your horse as you flee through the moonlit woods trying to escape them. I believe you stated earlier that many tempi are permissible and sound good with this particular piece. I would rather take it soft and reasonable than hurry it like a Lang Lang or others of his ilk who play as fast as they can trying to impress an audience with their so-called virtuosity. If this is Love's dream, then I want mine to sound dreamy and lovely. Sorry I can't help any more than this. If I don't post my own, soon, for you to gauge me, I'll look for a piece that is in the public domain that's close to my preference and I'll post it.

My goodness, look at the hour. My recital comments will have to wait for another day.

I have a lovely dream to contemplate with my eyelids closed.

After hearing your Hungarian Rhapsody, I'm confident you will find a tempo to fit your love dream state as well.

Have a good day,

Lisztener

PS I happened onto another thread last night where you introduced yourself and spoke of your hand injury. I am extremely happy that your little daughter inspired you to take a chance again after twelve years. The good book speaks of this in a passage: Isaiah 11:6
The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.

Progress report:

Well, this is where I am now: I can play 1st part at pretty much any tempo up to 180. I recorded myself several times, and indeed, as Lisztener suggested, 180 sounds a bit too fast, but not by much. So far the optimal tempo for measures 1-22 to my ear seems to be about 150. Here is my rendition from practice session (a few missed notes, but in a piece of this length I probably will never play it note-perfect, so this is not too far from the best I'll ever be at this):

http://www.box.net/shared/441efi4uci

Libestraume is sure wide open for interpretation; I always hear is a sort of song of joy; I've heard some say that it is a sad piece - not to my ears!

Lisztener: Thanx for the kind words. I am eagerly awaiting your recording. I want to comment on the digital - will do so later, as I have to run now (hear "Daddy, daddy, we are in the car already!!!")

Yuri,

Your play is beautiful just as I anticpated. Your tempo may be a little faster than mine. but it sure isn't too fast to miss the beautiful melody. Thank you for posting this section. You are a fast learner, my friend. If I can get a good take, not perfect, I'll try to upload it and make it available for constructive criticism later on, today.

Have fun with the family,

Lisztener

Yuri,

Your take of first part is lively, for my progress report, I can only play first part in supper slow mode, just too slow to post any recording. Good job man.

tvpiano,

Good to hear that you are making progress even though it may be slower than you wish. Hang in there!

Lisztener

I've been working on the Liebestraume No. 3 again for the past six days. Sunady evening I recorded it and heard myself play it in a recorded state for the first time in my life. I bought a Zoom H4 in October, 2006 after letting the Liebestraume fade out of memory. Here is a link to the rough version I recorded last evening:

http://www.box.net/shared/kxbrjh5bss

I intended to cut everything away except the first section, but then reconsidered and uploaded the entire piece with its numerous mistakes.

I'm seriously considering putting some hours into the cadenzas after I get the major sections better controlled. The cadenzas will give me fits, I'm sure, but if I don't give them a serious effort now, in this study group, I may never again have the motivation to do so.

I hope you enjoy the portions of the recording that are not hacked to pieces.

Have fun everyone,

Lisztener

tvpiano:

I am sure we'll all have difficult time with some portions of it. I, for once, am absolutely terrified by the parts IV and V. Part I was particularly easy for me as I played tons of Bach preludes (I played almost all of the WTC eons ago), and right hand arpeggios are something that is still deeply embedded in my fingers.

Also, a little suggestion: don't push tempo too much at this stage. As long as you can play it super slowly with correct rhythmic pattern so that the melody stands out from accompaniment, your task for stage 1 is pretty much accomplished - as you'll play this part at least once daily while working on the other parts, it'll come up to speed eventually. Are you memoryzing this as you study? I find it much easier to bring things up to speed once I memorized it completely.

Lisztener:

Coming from you the review of my playing is flatterings. Your own playing of Scriabin was IMHO way more musical. Really, I mean it.

Now, I promised to comment on digital. When I restarted my piano playing, I had Roland digital (13 years old, KR-something), which was quite inadequate, especially with my daughter starting her piano lessons (I wanted her hands to feel the right keyboard from the start). So, I went looking for a piano. Due to space constraints, I was looking for uprights only. After browsing for a while, I ended up liking ab upright Bohemia. But, right at that moment I saw a Roland HP-7 in the same showroom, and, without any intent on buying it, just played a few chords. Wow! The keyboard touch was way better than Bohemia, more like a grand piano. So, I took a pause, did lots of research, tried many digitals, and ended up buying Kawai MP8 + good speakers (Yamaha HS80M) + good headphones (Sennheiser HD-280Pro). I could not be more satisfied. Not only I can play when everybody is asleep, but I actually enjoy the keyboard more than the two acoustics I also play (Yamaha upright and Kawai grand) - I play those at my teacher's studio. I must tell you: digital has come long a way. So, if you can afford it, please, do yourself a favor, and get a digital - I am almost sure it will significantly enhance your piano life.

Yuri,

Thank you for the heads up on the digital piano. Now, you have me concerned that I'll abandon my recently purchased acoustic in favor of the digital. I can't let that happen. Seriously, as you mention the advancements in digital keyboard technology have given the good ones a beautiful piano tonal quality. I still believe that the acoustic holds sway overall because of the harmonics generated by the strings acting in concert within the case. Digital sampling cannot, at this point, imo, match the richness achieved on a good acoustic. I am aware, however, that with the feature set and the convenience of a digital one could spend many hours with learning and entertainment.

I'll keep you informed about my decision. A recommendation coming from you to get a good digital with good speakers and headphones cannot be ignored.

Thank you,

Lisztener

Yuri, thanks for the encouragement. As you can see, its been afew days since my last post, I have been away for 5 days with the grandson. One more day, and things will be back to normal. Then I can get back to work.

Lisztener and Yuri
Thanks for your encouragement and advice, update progress: part 1 is getting better but the jump LH is till hit and miss, I like to practice my sight read, so the reason to delay the memorized process. I plan to post part 1 recording sometime next week if I am lucky. Follow your advice, I begin to touch part 2, and a few measure of part 3, HS and very slowly.

Hi all,

I'm so glad that I retrieved the score from my piano bench. Aside from not having it polished in the recording I posted here, I see quite a few instances of wrong notes or incorrect execution in my long ago memorized version. I've been pencilling in the English equivalent to the Italian notation which has led me to go back to the beginning of the sheets to review and change those badly memorized portions.

Hang in there boys and girls,

Lisztener

I am so glad you uploaded entire piece, despite it obviously being work in progress. Your playing of 1st part (up to 1st cadenza) is close to perfect; the rest needs some minor polishing/speeding up; however, even in its present form your play does convey your style and expression pretty well.

You are way ahead of the rest of us; your playing is a reminder that it is a rather significant undertaking.

Quote

I'm seriously considering putting some hours into the cadenzas after I get the major sections better controlled. The cadenzas will give me fits, I'm sure, but if I don't give them a serious effort now, in this study group, I may never again have the motivation to do so.

You'll get these cadenzas; I am positive. They are not much harder than the rest. Please forgive me if the suggestions below sound trivial. Here is how I will approach the 1st cadenza (I was not planning on learning it until much later in the study, after sections III, IV and V):

EDIT: Content removed (superseeded by further commentary below) to avoid confusion.

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I hope you enjoy the portions of the recording that are not hacked to pieces.

I certainly did; thank you very much!

Yuri,

Thank you so much for your encouraging words. It's comforting to have someone with your expertise as part of this group. Your graphic of the fingereing is fantastic and I hope that you get a chance to post the revised version for sections 4,5,and 6 at your earliest convenience.

It's very gracious of you to take the time out of a busy day to help us.

We appreciate your interest and the motivation you provide,

Sincerely,

Lisztener

PS I'm off to practice for a couple hours, I hope.

Well, I've decided that I no longer wish to continue working on this piece. It's not that it's too hard for me, I just don't have the time.

Due to certain comments received in the past week, I've decided to quit anything difficult that I am working on in order to clean up sloppy technique.