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#965370 - 10/01/04 03:15 AM Chopin op.10 no.1 & no.3  
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Stahlbrand Offline
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I would like to share two recordings which I have published at the following URL:
http://www.pianosociety.com/index.php?id=37

Hope you like them even though no.3 is a bit faster and more brutal than most recordings. My view is that no.3 is played too slow by most pianists and if you look at the metronome indication, it is 8:th=100 in beat=2/4.

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#965371 - 10/01/04 03:50 AM Re: Chopin op.10 no.1 & no.3  
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Quote
Originally posted by Stahlbrand:
I would like to share two recordings which I have published at the following URL:
http://www.pianosociety.com/index.php?id=37

Hope you like them even though no.3 is a bit faster and more brutal than most recordings. My view is that no.3 is played too slow by most pianists and if you look at the metronome indication, it is 8:th=100 in beat=2/4.
I personally can't stand the Op. 10 No. 3 etude. I suggest you not take the metronome markings too seriously, though. They weren't necessarily put there by Chopin.

#965372 - 10/01/04 04:31 AM Re: Chopin op.10 no.1 & no.3  
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Stahlbrand Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by cziffra:
I personally can't stand the Op. 10 No. 3 etude. I suggest you not take the metronome markings too seriously, though. They weren't necessarily put there by Chopin.
Chopin metronome marked all his pieces up to op.27 where he changed his view to (according to some biographes) as he did not want his interpreters to be so hard stuck to a tempo. In his Etudes, he was very careful about the use of metronome and it might suprise you to learn that Chopin never let the metronome escape his piano.
I made a short research on the area of interpretation of Chopin's music which I posted at:
http://www.chopinforum.com/interpretation.html

In all of version I know, the tempo is marked 8:th=100 while there is some other etude are wrong metronome marks. One example of this is the op.10/6 which is often marked b.=60 while it should be b.=69 which actually makes a big difference.
One early edition (1833) of op.10 no.3 is located here:
http://www.lib.uchicago.edu/chopin/images/047/chopin047-043q.jpg

Still, you are of course allowed to not like my interpretation wink

#965373 - 10/01/04 08:25 AM Re: Chopin op.10 no.1 & no.3  
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I liked them!

You are an excellent pianist!

Mark

#965374 - 10/01/04 12:25 PM Re: Chopin op.10 no.1 & no.3  
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Oh thank you very much!

And to add something about the no.3, I play this without pedal but for where it is marked and that is only for one bar. This makes this etude, which is considered as one of the more easy on the the set of op.10, a real challange!
I play it as the exercise of legato it is, and the use of sutstain pedal will ruin the exercise but performing is a something else so I understand that pedal makes it sound better.

#965375 - 10/02/04 08:28 PM Re: Chopin op.10 no.1 & no.3  
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I didn't like the Etude No.3 simply because there wasn't a lot of legato. I don't think the pedal markings should tell you where to play with the pedal - different editions have different sections for the pedal. I think you should only use the pedal in areas that cannot be played with legato but must have a resonating sound.

The op.1 and op.11 I liked very much. Are these three the only etudes that you have learnt so far?




____________________

"... It is a skill you go on learning all your life: the more you write, the more you learn."

Harry Freedman on the craft of composing
#965376 - 10/03/04 04:12 AM Re: Chopin op.10 no.1 & no.3  
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I haven't as yet been able to listen to your recordings, Stahlbrand, but I think the opening 20 measures of Op10 #3 are just beautifully lyrical. Lyricism isn't generally what I think of when I hear the term "Etude" but this section really stands out, at least to me. While the rest of that piece (and the remaining 27 or so etudes) are demonstratively way over my head, I enjoy playing that opening section.

I've wondered if anyone has every tried to put words to that portion of the piece, as it does have a very "song-like" quality about it.

Bob

#965377 - 10/03/04 09:07 AM Re: Chopin op.10 no.1 & no.3  
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Well played, Stahlbrand! I liked the first op 1 etude, how long have you been playing it?

I noticed that you are from Sweden, just as me. Where do you live?

#965378 - 10/04/04 03:08 AM Re: Chopin op.10 no.1 & no.3  
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Thanks for the responses.
I am from Sweden indeed and a bit north of Gothenburg. I have been studying the first etude for about a year and it took my about 6-8 months to get it into correct speed. There are some mistakes in the recording but it is almost impossible to perfect which even Horowitz onces stated (and that is why he never recorded it). So fnork, where are you from?

I agree with Googlism that the pedal indications vary a lot between different editions. Cortot really did make a lot of them in his study guide while the Urtext edition only mark it in one passage.
My belief is that etude no.3 should be played unpedaled during legato practise but be performed with delicious use of pedal at a performance. Like for example as Mr. Pollini did.

And I know Etude 1, 2, 3 by heart and have played 4, 5, 6 and 12 and know them rather good.
No.11 is not by me at the site I made a link to but by a person I know. I am planning to learn them all and a dear friend of mine wrote complete study guides for me which I put up at:
http://chopinforum.com/etudes.html
If you plan to learn any of these, take some time to check this link out. There are downloadable (for free of course) PDF's to each of them.

#965379 - 10/04/04 10:21 AM Re: Chopin op.10 no.1 & no.3  
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Quote
Originally posted by Stahlbrand:
Thanks for the responses.
I am from Sweden indeed and a bit north of Gothenburg.
Wow, really? Well, guess what, I live in central gothenburg, around Korsvägen smile So, are you studying somewhere in Gothenburg or nearby? Right now, I'm studying at Hvitfeldtska gymnasiet..

Quote
I have been studying the first etude for about a year and it took my about 6-8 months to get it into correct speed. There are some mistakes in the recording but it is almost impossible to perfect which even Horowitz onces stated (and that is why he never recorded it).
I don't think it's impossible to play it perfect, and some other etudes seem far more difficult to me than this one. Try to play op 10 no 4 in the right tempo for instance... Seems more difficult to me, but I haven't studied that one so much. I've heard some pianists play it with the right metronome marking, not totally without errors but very well played still. I heard Richter play it on CD recently though, and he plays it really slowly... comparing to the other versions.

I've been practicing this etude for over a year, and I can play it in a good tempo now, but wouldn't manage to do that some months ago. Perhaps I'll record my version someday too, and put it up here smile

#965380 - 10/04/04 09:10 PM Re: Chopin op.10 no.1 & no.3  
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I am currently working on op 10 no 1 and enjoyed listening to your recording. Just picked it up a few days ago so I have quite a way to go.

By the way, what kind of piano were you playing on? It has a very bell-like upper register.

#965381 - 10/05/04 12:57 AM Re: Chopin op.10 no.1 & no.3  
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I can tell by your recording of Op.10 No.1 that you are a decent pianist, but that Op.10 No.3 is terribly awkward - it sounds like a march. It made me want to quit playing the piano. Forever... laugh

How about a little more Legato and Pedal to help maintain the melodic line. A little rubato wouldn't hurt either.

This etude is capable of making grown men cry, but your recording is literally without emotion.

Sorry to be so harsh, but your interpretation is not something I'd want to listen to more than once.


♪♫♪♫
#965382 - 10/05/04 01:56 AM Re: Chopin op.10 no.1 & no.3  
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...but well done, nonetheless! I enjoyed your Op.10-1.


"See?! The Cliffs of Insanity!"
#965383 - 10/05/04 09:50 AM Re: Chopin op.10 no.1 & no.3  
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Quote
Wow, really? Well, guess what, I live in central gothenburg, around Korsvägen smile So, are you studying somewhere in Gothenburg or nearby? Right now, I'm studying at Hvitfeldtska gymnasiet..

I don't think it's impossible to play it perfect, and some other etudes seem far more difficult to me than this one. Try to play op 10 no 4 in the right tempo for instance... Seems more difficult to me, but I haven't studied that one so much. I've heard some pianists play it with the right metronome marking, not totally without errors but very well played still. I heard Richter play it on CD recently though, and he plays it really slowly... comparing to the other versions.

I've been practicing this etude for over a year, and I can play it in a good tempo now, but wouldn't manage to do that some months ago. Perhaps I'll record my version someday too, and put it up here smile [/QB]
I work in Gotheburg (Mölndalsvägen) with computer security and it was a long time since I was in school as I am currently 33 years old.
I have seen the video of Richter playing op.10/4 and playing in his tempo, the etude is very difficult. He plays with fury and looks almost wild in his eyes.

#965384 - 10/05/04 09:56 AM Re: Chopin op.10 no.1 & no.3  
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Quote
Originally posted by iamcanadian:
I can tell by your recording of Op.10 No.1 that you are a decent pianist, but that Op.10 No.3 is terribly awkward - it sounds like a march. It made me want to quit playing the piano. Forever... laugh

How about a little more Legato and Pedal to help maintain the melodic line. A little rubato wouldn't hurt either.

This etude is capable of making grown men cry, but your recording is literally without emotion.

Sorry to be so harsh, but your interpretation is not something I'd want to listen to more than once.
Maybe I make a performance recording of it with pedal and lyrics involved but the poor Chopin are very often played with too much of romantism as he lived in that era. Recent, researches ideas and views by for instance J.Kallberg talks of Chopin's music as baroque reincarnated in a romantic style. I like the idea of Chopin played in strict tempo and with sparingly use of rubato (but for the exception of his Mazurkas). LH act as the conductor while RH sings more freely. I cannot stand when for example his Nocturnes are played with a very liberal use of rubato in the LH with uneven tempo within even a single "chord" which I have heard many times. Practise LH to metronome is my advice.
Pollini is my master of his Etudes. He plays them as the exercises they are!

#965385 - 10/06/04 02:24 PM Re: Chopin op.10 no.1 & no.3  
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Ok, I will agree with most of what you say, but playing with NO pedal is just wrong.

Pollini's performance is quite good, but he uses Rubato(however subtle) and pedal all the way through.


♪♫♪♫
#965386 - 10/08/04 03:34 AM Re: Chopin op.10 no.1 & no.3  
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Yes he does as any pianist. I repeate, lets use no pedal for practise so that the pedal does not ruin the legato exercise but for performing in public, use pedal and even rubato.

I even practise op.10 no.1 without pedal, just to make sure I hit every key perfect.

#965387 - 10/17/04 03:01 PM Re: Chopin op.10 no.1 & no.3  
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eh im always up for weird interpretations, but i really didnt like how you played 10/3. 10/1 was wonderful though, really enjoyed the actual sound of the piano too

#965388 - 10/19/04 07:04 AM Re: Chopin op.10 no.1 & no.3  
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I wonder why there are so much wrong notes in the Etude Op.10 No.3!
and...so little pedal...
Also, the melody sometimes is not smooth, especially at the end of a phrase in the middle of the etude.

#965389 - 10/19/04 11:01 PM Re: Chopin op.10 no.1 & no.3  
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No.1 was awesome very diffucult piece no.3 was also good great job


cdbob
#965390 - 10/26/04 07:27 AM Re: Chopin op.10 no.1 & no.3  
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Wow! I can never play his no 1 like that. You must have very big and strong hands.
Hmm... But I didn't really like the third. Ha ha.. smile You're right. Your interpretation was too brutal for me. smile I prefer the more subtle and 'wet' way of playing. I would have used more discern pedalling. Hmm, but nevertheless BRAVO!!!!
BRAVE!!!
BRAVASSIMO!!! smile

#965391 - 10/26/04 07:35 AM Re: Chopin op.10 no.1 & no.3  
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By the Way, what piano are u using for your recording? The op 10, no 1,2,3? I like the tone. Must be a steinway.
But I really like the lower register...reminds me of a Bose.
Deep and powerful. smile

Yeah, I don't use the pedal when I'm praticing or rather still at the 'hitting all correct notes' stage. I think it's wise not to indulge in the pedal when you are aiming for no false notes ... it really makes a huge difference in your final presentation... with the pedal of course. smile

#965392 - 11/28/04 12:11 PM Re: Chopin op.10 no.1 & no.3  
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I also have a recording of op 10 no 1, from a recent concert. Not perfect yet, perhaps I should have played it a bit slower...

Here's the link: www.angelfire.com/music6/pianostuff17

#965393 - 12/02/04 09:11 AM Re: Chopin op.10 no.1 & no.3  
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How can one walk out on a concert and be certain to perfect the op.10 no.1? Just keep the flow and only a very well trained ear will hear your mistakes.
Just make sure you the the top keys perfect together with left hands octaves.
By the way, uploaded a new version of no.3...like everyone expects it to be ;-).

#965394 - 12/02/04 09:24 AM Re: Chopin op.10 no.1 & no.3  
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Aside from the (many) wrong notes in Op.10 No.1, I think you play it quite well. One criticism though, is that I feel you hammer the top note of the arpeggios too hard at times.

I've only heard the "new" recording of Op.10 No.3 and I like it.

#965395 - 12/08/04 02:54 PM Re: Chopin op.10 no.1 & no.3  
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I do it to cover up of course! ;-)

#965396 - 12/23/04 04:43 PM Re: Chopin op.10 no.1 & no.3  
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Quote
Originally posted by Stahlbrand:
...By the way, uploaded a new version of no.3...like everyone expects it to be ;-).
I'd like to hear the original version, if you still have it. I think most pianists rely a bit too heavily on the pedal, especially me, so I'd like to get a good idea of how it would sound played (by a good pianist) with no pedal.

Great job, by the way!

-----


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#965397 - 01/22/05 03:18 AM Re: Chopin op.10 no.1 & no.3  
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For this second recording of Op.10 No.3, it is a good work!

#965398 - 01/22/05 02:21 PM Re: Chopin op.10 no.1 & no.3  
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Quote
Originally posted by Stahlbrand:
I would like to share two recordings which I have published at the following URL:
http://www.pianosociety.com/index.php?id=37

Hope you like them even though no.3 is a bit faster and more brutal than most recordings. My view is that no.3 is played too slow by most pianists and if you look at the metronome indication, it is 8:th=100 in beat=2/4.
Beautiful recordings. I think that the Opus 10/3 speed is just right this time around (didn't hear the first recording). I also don't understand how anyone could not like this Etude, it's one of my favorites. Opus 10/1 sounds great--very smooth, very clear. I'm not used to hearing the high note with so much emphasis, though. Either way, I liked it. The Opus 10/2 recording is nice, but a little too slow, I'd say. Then again, my standards are probably too high--I know that this piece is incredibly difficult to play, and I'm used to hearing recordings from people like Yundi Li and such.

Great work, tell us when you have the rest of the etudes recorded.


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