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8va question #963175
07/06/08 01:59 AM
07/06/08 01:59 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 622
California
koiloco Offline OP
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koiloco  Offline OP
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when 8va is written over the treble clef, does it mean play both treble and bass clefs an octave higher or just the treble clef ?

Coming from violin, i never deal with 2 clefs and often get confused.

Thx ahead.

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Re: 8va question #963176
07/06/08 02:05 AM
07/06/08 02:05 AM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 7,646
Orange County, CA
AZNpiano Online happy
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AZNpiano  Online Happy
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Just treble.


Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member
Re: 8va question #963177
07/06/08 02:12 AM
07/06/08 02:12 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 622
California
koiloco Offline OP
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koiloco  Offline OP
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thx so much.

so when it's both , it will say

"8va both" or something similar , correct?

Re: 8va question #963178
07/06/08 03:29 AM
07/06/08 03:29 AM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,595
Pacific Northwest
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pianobuff Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by koiloco:
thx so much.

so when it's both , it will say

"8va both" or something similar , correct?
If both hands play an octave higher a lot of times the left hand notes will be written an octave higher... in the treble clef, if need be, along with RH notes written in treble where they are to be played.


Private Piano Teacher,
member MTNA and Piano Basics Foundation
Re: 8va question #963179
07/06/08 10:59 AM
07/06/08 10:59 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 7,639
Olympia, Washington, USA
John v.d.Brook Offline
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John v.d.Brook  Offline
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koiloco - you didn't ask, but you'll frequently find 8va written under notes in the LH, and that means go down an octave.

15va means up or down 15 tones, which is, of course, two octaves.


"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann
Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com
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Re: 8va question #963180
07/06/08 11:03 AM
07/06/08 11:03 AM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,077
Canada
keystring Offline
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A possible question: Logic would suggest that you would rarely have an 8va above the bass for going up an octave, since such notes would fit more easily into the treble clef, and vice versa. So generally the 8va would be to raise notes in the treble with the sign placed above the staff, and lower notes in the bass with the sign below the staff. Would this seem to be correct? (I never thought about this before or took conscious note.)

Re: 8va question #963181
07/06/08 11:28 AM
07/06/08 11:28 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
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Boynton Beach, FL
Morodiene Offline
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Keystring: yes, which is essentially what pianobuff & John wrote. laugh


private piano/voice teacher FT

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Re: 8va question #963182
07/06/08 11:45 AM
07/06/08 11:45 AM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 222
Northern California
Knabe26 Offline
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Knabe26  Offline
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Northern California
Koiloco, some method books in early levels do use "both hands" after the 8va instead of changing the other clef.


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Re: 8va question #963183
07/06/08 12:17 PM
07/06/08 12:17 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,077
Canada
keystring Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by Morodiene:
Keystring: yes, which is essentially what pianobuff & John wrote. laugh
Having drawn some weird conclusions in my past life and then basing myself on them, I thought I'd double check anyway. laugh Thx

Re: 8va question #963184
07/06/08 12:55 PM
07/06/08 12:55 PM
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Posts: 458
Abitibi
ddh Offline
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Abitibi
Quote
Originally posted by John v.d.Brook:
koiloco - you didn't ask, but you'll frequently find 8va written under notes in the LH, and that means go down an octave.

15va means up or down 15 tones, which is, of course, two octaves.
More often, though, 8vb (ottava bassa) will be used to go down an octave.

Cheers


Daniel (Pramberger JP 208B)
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Re: 8va question #963185
07/06/08 05:26 PM
07/06/08 05:26 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 7,639
Olympia, Washington, USA
John v.d.Brook Offline
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My vision is so poor, I've never noticed that the va was a vb! Live and learn!


"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann
Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com
Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA
Re: 8va question #963186
07/08/08 03:55 PM
07/08/08 03:55 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 399
Chicagoland
tickler Offline
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tickler  Offline
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Chicagoland
I've seen plenty of sheet music that uses 8va (or 15va) to go down 1 (or 2) octaves in the left hand. This includes music published recently and going all the way back to the 1950s, and from major publishers.

I can't recall seeing a 8vb (or 15vb), but it's certainly possible I missed an occasional one. My eyesight's just fine smile


Mary


Music should strike fire from the heart of man, and bring tears from the eyes of woman. -- Beethoven
Re: 8va question #963187
07/08/08 04:03 PM
07/08/08 04:03 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 379
Kansas City
eromlignod Offline
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Kansas City
8va is just short for "ottava". If it's two octaves, it's written 15ma, for "quindicessima". The bass version of ottava is sometimes written 8vb, but I've seen it both ways.

Don
Kansas City

Re: 8va question #963188
07/09/08 09:44 AM
07/09/08 09:44 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 7,639
Olympia, Washington, USA
John v.d.Brook Offline
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Olympia, Washington, USA
Thanks for the info . . . I thought maybe my vision was in serious decline. I went back and checked various manuscripts and what I discovered is that new music, set using computer programs, tend to use the 8vb notation, and the older engraved versions used the 8va.

I had been taught, and had taught, what eromlignod stated, that 8va was shorthand for ottava, meaning 8 notes/tones.


"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann
Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com
Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA
Re: 8va question #963189
07/09/08 11:20 AM
07/09/08 11:20 AM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,085
Virginia, USA
T
TimR Offline
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Virginia, USA
Quote
Originally posted by John v.d.Brook:


I had been taught, and had taught, what eromlignod stated, that 8va was shorthand for ottava, meaning 8 notes/tones.
I've discussed this subject often with brass players, for whom it is more common to go an octave down than up.

8vb is often seen, but the purists insist on 8va b as more correct, for ottava basso. If no b, then up is assumed.


gotta go practice
Re: 8va question #963190
07/09/08 11:41 AM
07/09/08 11:41 AM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 379
Kansas City
eromlignod Offline
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Kansas City
I have always thought that the 8vb notation for ottava bassa was sort of silly, since the notation itself is located above or below the staff, indicating in which direction the octave should be played. I have even seen the two-octave bass version written "15mb" for "quindicesima bassa".

Most music indicates the duration of the ottava with a dashed line, but some old music terminates the octave passage with "loco" instead.

Now, has anyone ever seen "c.8va" (coll'ottava) for the piano? This one is really rare!

Don
Kansas City

Re: 8va question #963191
07/11/08 05:25 PM
07/11/08 05:25 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 622
California
koiloco Offline OP
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koiloco  Offline OP
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California
You guys rock ! Thx all again.


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