Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.5 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
Find a Professional
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Advertise on Piano World

What's Hot!!
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
(125ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Piano Buyer Guide
Piano Buyer Fall 2017
Who's Online Now
85 registered members (Alex C, ando, Andy001, anotherscott, alphonsus, Anita Potter, 25 invisible), 1,251 guests, and 1 spider.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
#958560 - 03/09/04 03:09 PM Unison Intervals  
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60
emrys Offline
Full Member
emrys  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60
Toronto
Hello folks,
I feel REALLY embarrassed to have to pose this question but I really need to know.

Is there such a thing as an augmented unison interval and a dimenished unison interval?

C to C is a perfect unison interval.

What is C flat to C natural? Augmented?

What is C sharp to C natural? Dimenished?

And is this the same if C natural is the bottom note?

I am studying Grade 2 Rudiments and I have found this, among OTHER things musical, very confusing.

Thanks in advance.

(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
#958561 - 03/09/04 03:40 PM Re: Unison Intervals  
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 3,192
RKVS1 Offline
3000 Post Club Member
RKVS1  Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 3,192
Topeka, Kansas
Calling all Kreislers, where's a Starmender when you need one, eh?

Don't be embarassed about these oddball situations,emrys. I think they should be called crackpot questions since they are usually centered around the cracks. oh well, one of two I think I can answer.

Cflat to Cnatural. I figure its in the key of Cflat, so next note in scale would be Db. So 1/2 step below that would be a diminished 2nd. That would be my answer of choice, but it could also be called an augmented first, I guess. About this I'm not really sure though.

Csharp to Cnatural, I'd revise to Cnatural to Csharp. In key of C, 2nd scale tone is D, so Db (which is still C#)is 1/2 step down, so Cnatural to Csharp is a dimished 2nd.
I've never known for sure what to do on downward intervals either.

I'm not really confident about this and mainly I posted it so that if a better trained person comes in here they can tell me where I've gone wrong. smile

Bob

#958562 - 03/10/04 05:35 AM Re: Unison Intervals  
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,519
benedict Offline
2000 Post Club Member
benedict  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,519
European Union
Quote
The simplest interval we can consider is the interval between two identical notes - e.g. C and C. The interval is called the unison, the perfect unison or the perfect prime. We can also say that the notes are 'in unison'.
The interval from C to C sharp is called the augmented unison or the augmented prime - 'unison' because the note names are the same (both C's), 'augmented' because the interval is one semitone greater than a 'perfect' unison;
the interval from C to C flat is called the diminished unison or the diminished prime. Although C flat sounds 'lower' than C, the two notes are both C's and therefore the interval remains a variety of unison. If we now consider the interval between our key-note C and any other C, we would say that the interval is one, two three or more octaves depending on which C is the upper note; for example, the eighth degree of the scale is one octave above the key-note.

I found that on google by typing : music theory online

click here

smile


Benedict
#958563 - 03/10/04 09:13 AM Re: Unison Intervals  
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,044
Manitou Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Manitou  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,044
Colorado
Strange stuff. Now why would we call C to C a unison, when there is but one note being played or observed? To have something in unison would require two different things, not simply one, right? Irealise this is symantecs but as a Tuner, I find it confusing to talk of a unsion beween one and the same note. In tuning we talk of a good unison (within a single ntoe) to mean all three strings are tuned perfectly in unison.. notice tough, there are more than one, becoming one.


Manitou - Pianist - Technician
#958564 - 03/10/04 10:19 AM Re: Unison Intervals  
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,519
benedict Offline
2000 Post Club Member
benedict  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,519
European Union
Maybe it is used for two different instruments or voices


Benedict
#958565 - 03/10/04 03:16 PM Re: Unison Intervals  
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 259
caryn Offline
Full Member
caryn  Offline
Full Member

Joined: May 2002
Posts: 259
east coast
Quote
Originally posted by benedict:
[QUOTE]The interval from C to C sharp is called the augmented unison or the augmented prime - 'unison' because the note names are the same (both C's), 'augmented' because the interval is one semitone greater than a 'perfect' unison;
the interval from C to C flat is called the diminished unison or the diminished prime. Although C flat sounds 'lower' than C, the two notes are both C's and therefore the interval remains a variety of unison.
I don't get it. It seems to me they'd both be augmented, because in both cases the interval is one semitone greater than a perfect unison.

Then again, stranger things have happened...

?? caryn

#958566 - 03/10/04 03:34 PM Re: Unison Intervals  
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,519
benedict Offline
2000 Post Club Member
benedict  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,519
European Union
It seems to be algebrical.
The diminished unison is one semitone lower than a perfect unison(- 1/2) and the augmented is one semitone higher(+1/2).


Benedict
#958567 - 03/10/04 06:46 PM Re: Unison Intervals  
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 259
caryn Offline
Full Member
caryn  Offline
Full Member

Joined: May 2002
Posts: 259
east coast
Benedict,
Yes, I think I understand now. You just have to keep thinking of C as the lower note in the interval.

Further, you can look at how the inversions behave. A minor interval becomes a major interval in inversion and vice versa; an augmented interval becomes a diminished interval in inversion and vice versa. Inverting C-C# (augmented unison) becomes C#-C (diminished octave). And now, drum roll please, Cflat-C (augmented octave) inverts to C-Cflat (*diminished unison*!).

Now it seems only logical!

:-) caryn

#958568 - 03/10/04 11:07 PM Re: Unison Intervals  
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 461
starmender Offline
Full Member
starmender  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 461
Australia
Yes, you can have an augmented unison. c to c# is an example. It is not a diminished second, that is c to d double flat.

Can you have a diminished unison? No, because the bottom note becomes the foundation note for the interval, so if you have c and c flat, you regard the interval as being in the key of c flat, and it is augmented.

Sorry, inverting an augmented octave does not give you a diminished unison.

Inverting an interval usually means, I think, taking the top note down an octave. That means that the principles pertaining to the change of quality when you invert the interval do not apply to intervals greater than an octave.

I must admit that I have never considered the idea of inverting an interval larger than an octave before. But doesn't the inversion of the interval refer to what is left of an octave when you take the interval out of it? In which case the inversion of intervals greater than an octave would be a null set, unless we are going to get into "negative" intervals.

#958569 - 03/11/04 11:12 AM Re: Unison Intervals  
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 259
caryn Offline
Full Member
caryn  Offline
Full Member

Joined: May 2002
Posts: 259
east coast
Quote
Originally posted by starmender:
Yes, you can have an augmented unison. c to c# is an example. It is not a diminished second, that is c to D flat.

I thought c to D flat would be a minor second, not a diminished second.

As for the rest of your post, I think you are too smart for me!!! smile

caryn

#958570 - 03/11/04 11:19 AM Re: Unison Intervals  
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 461
starmender Offline
Full Member
starmender  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 461
Australia
Absolutely right. Someone was talkin at me, but no excuses. I'm shocked!

#958571 - 03/11/04 12:21 PM Re: Unison Intervals  
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 3,192
RKVS1 Offline
3000 Post Club Member
RKVS1  Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 3,192
Topeka, Kansas
Benedict, thanks for the BryanBlood link. I stumbled upon that site a couple of years ago (at Dr.BloodDotCom or some similarly interesting name) and thought it was well done, but the link went dead and I never found it again.
When I first explored it, I found some little mistake in one of his examples and wrote him an Email asking about it. He sent me a nice "thank you, now leave me alone, ya little snot" smile response and fixed it within a week. No,actually he was very gracious about it. Proof-reading a site that large would be a major headache. (or would that be proof-sighting? or sight-proofing? I'll have to go back and review your posts on this subject laugh or would that be sight-reviewing?

Bob

#958572 - 03/11/04 02:10 PM Re: Unison Intervals  
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,519
benedict Offline
2000 Post Club Member
benedict  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,519
European Union
Bob,

You are the grand master of improvisation. laugh

I am glad my site-finding was helpful. cool


Benedict

Moderated by  Ken Knapp 

Piano Acc. & Gift Items in
Piano World's Online Store
In PianoSupplies.com ,(a division of Piano World)
our online store for piano and music gifts and accessories, Digital Piano Dolly, party goods, tuning equipment, piano moving equipment, benches, lamps Caster Cups and more.


Free Shipping* on Jansen Artist Piano Benches, Cocoweb Piano Lamps, Hidrau Hydraulic Piano Benches
(*free shipping within contiguous U.S. only)
(ad)
Pearl River & Ritmuller
Pearl River Pianos
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq 6 Out now
ad
Pierce Piano Atlas


New Topics - Multiple Forums
Petrof IV - before and after tuning
by BobTB. 12/12/17 06:22 AM
Velocity Sample Switching
by memtrix. 12/12/17 05:29 AM
Samick 121 Action issue
by vibavi attigala. 12/12/17 03:45 AM
The "HUM" of my piano
by Weiyan. 12/12/17 02:37 AM
Forum Statistics
Forums44
Topics183,235
Posts2,678,589
Members89,264
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Check It Out!
There's a lot more to Piano World than just the forums.
Click Here to
Explore The Rest of Piano World!!
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2017 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0