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Hi everyone. New member here.

I took piano lessons about 20 years ago (for only about a year or so) when I was in my mid twenties.

Throughout the years, I've played off and on, but just for my own enjoyment. Although many years have now passed, I still play at the same level as I did when I was taking lessons.

Recently, I've had a renewed interest in taking piano lessons again and am in the process of trying to find a good piano teacher.

Considering the amount of time investment involved, its important to me that I find a teacher that is right for me. My plan was to take one lesson each with five to ten different piano teachers to hopefully find one that I can connect with.

I was wondering if any piano teachers out there can offer me some advice on selecting a good piano teacher.

A few questions to the forum, if you don't mind.

- How important is a formal music education? I've taken lessons (actually, at this stage its more like an interview) from three different piano teachers, all of whom have a Masters Degree in Music (Performance). I understand there is Masters of Music Education. Does this type of education provide a significantly better probability that I'll get a good teacher. Are they able to better conceptually grasp, understand and communicate solid teaching principles.

- Should I ask them to play something for me? I've done this on my past three lessons, and frankly, as I expected, they all can play (I don't know if this is a waste of time). My ear isn't sufficiently trained to tell if they can play well, but it sounded good to me.

- What kinds of questions would you ask, if you were in my shoes (and knowing what you now know about teaching)? What kinds of questions would raise red flags (i.e. what types of teachers should I avoid).

Your insights in helping me through this process would be gratefully received.

Welcome,akira,

May I suggest you look at the MTNA (Music Teachers National Association) website at the certified teachers list for people in your area?

I think interviewing 10 teachers is overload and unnecessary. Most teachers would want to think that you were selecting them for their reputation and expertise - not being one of a melting pot of choices.

These days many teachers have websites on which you can get acquainted with the studio policies, tuition fees, and background, before meeting them. I think they should be willing to play for you if requested to.

I think that you might work just a little bit in thinking about what kind of student you can be, and offer a commitment as to your practice, discuss goals and interestes you might have, and come up with a plan together, so that you each deserve each other and will cooperate together.

If you go to Martha Beth Lewis's website there is lots of information for students looking for teachers, and information in general about piano lessons. Dr. Lewis is a pedagogue and leading teacher in the world of music. Her website is very realistic and personable and has been visited by many thousands of people, teachers and students and parents.

Good luck and keep asking questions to define your interview, it will be by quickly, you know. Not all teachers give free interviews.

Betty

I agree that perhaps the BEST place to look for a qualified teacher would be on the Music Teachers' National Association website: www.mtna.org

Regarding the type of degree a piano teacher holds, a performance degree doesn't necessarily make someone qualified to teach, only perform. There's a big difference. A degree in music education usually means they are band or choir directors (which is why I didn't do the music ed route at my school). Ideally, it would be good to find someone who has a piano pedagogy degree. However, few schools offer such degrees.

What kind of music do you want to play? That will also help you decide what kind of teacher you need. Do you want to learn strictly classical music? Do you want to learn how to improvise and read chord symbols and lead sheets?

"Regarding the type of degree a piano teacher holds, a performance degree doesn't necessarily make someone qualified to teach, only perform"
This is not true, all of my teacher's diplomas and degrees are for performance. I'm doing my performance degree and i'm qualified to teach.
Even Grade 7-8 piano students are qualified to teach, the only question is whether anyone's gonna want to be your student.

You should'nt interview teachers. You should pick a few teachers who will audition you and talk to you, teacher's who need to do that are usually one of the better ones.

Amelia, you may have misunderstood what dumdumdiddle meant. Your teacher may have only performance degrees and still be an excellent teacher - it sounds like she is, from what you've said. The point was that someone with a performance degree may have had no training in education or pedagogy and you can't assume that because they perform brilliantly, they will be able to teach.

I have been in a similar position to you and I would advise the following:

Personality counts for a lot. Good rapport is essential to me and should be evident shortly after meeting.

Your teacher must be able to demonstrate sections of what you aspire to play. I am not sure what level you are at, but this was a problem for me as I had a couple of teachers who were unable to sight read sections of advanced pieces and hence could not demonstrate. Take some music with you, find a section you struggle with, play it for the teacher and then get the teacher to show you how it could or should be done.

Teachers who have been or still are active concert pianists will often have at last a passing familiarity with an enormous amount of repertoire. This can be very helpful.

I find that a teacher that has a good theory understanding helps a lot as coupled with good playing skills the teacher can then provide insights into the music that you miss.

Personally, and this may not be a popular view, I could not care less about qualifications. I have no idea of the qualifications of the best teacher I have ever had. She is an active CP and has an amazing knack of getting ideas and techniques across.

The best teachers have a remarkably sharp eye and keen ear. I have often been astounded at the tiny errors that my teacher spots, even when I am playing difficult scores at tempo.

I would be wary of teachers who do not teach other adults. Children have different learning needs and teachers who focus exclusively on children cannot always accommodate adult attitudes.

if I were you I would make contact with the musical director of a good school nearby, and ask for a recommendation for a good piano teacher. There is always a network and the best teachers/performers generally know each other.

Good look in your search.

I just typed in my zip code to try to find a teacher using the MTNA web site. Two teachers popped up, and one was 65 miles away. None of the recognized people with active studios and excellent students in my greater geographical area is in their data base. This doesn't mean that I think the MTNA is not useful. I'm just not sure that its membership necessarily catches a random sample of the best teachers available.

[A follow-up: I typed in other zip codes and saw some recognizable names. On the other hand, when two or three names pop up in a metro area of almost a million people you know you're only hitting a tiny slice of the teaching power out there.]

Yes, you did misunderstand. Being able to perform at the highest level means that you know a great deal about music and how to play a particular piece, but to convey that knowledge to a young student is something different. I knew several performance majors in college that were mediocre teachers... they weren't knowledgeable about learning styles, childhood development, the myriad of piano methods out there, etc... That's where piano pedagogy is so important.

I once had a woman with a performance degree teach a few group piano classes for me. She had wonderful qualifications and had studied with important people. But she didn't have the personality or training to deal with preschool and elementary age kids. Of the 16 students that began lessons only 4 remained after 3 months. Her performance degree was of little value to me.

I'm not bashing getting a performance degree, but realize that there's more to being a good teacher. Some of the best piano teachers I know don't have a performance degree at all.

Piano*Dad,

The list you were looking at is for "certified" teachers only who meet select standards of MTNA. There are lots and lots of members in addition to that list. For instance, MTNA has 24,000 members, and Washington State has 1,000 members, one of the larger states in membership, exceeded by Texas and California, I believe.

If you go back to MTNA and look for State MTA's you can probably connect with local chapters in your area. If it's not obvious, you might try e-mailing or calling the State President to query local chapter President's names. Some chapters have websites with teacher directories on them.

For instance my local chapter has one http://www.rainier.wsmta.net/. They are very helpful for referral reasons.

And, of course, the local music store should know who the "players" are in local teaching circles.

If it is still difficult, please let me know.

Betty

i think teachers with performance degree in piano are at least qualified technically, if you want the teachers with solid techniques and performance experience. searching for teachers with such backgroud, you probably have a better chance to get a good teacher than those who doesn't have such degrees.

i got my teacher through internet basically, and emailed him and got his response back and went to the 1st lesson and liked him pretty much then and have been taking lessons with him since. i did check his background on net, and knew he has a couple of MM in piano performace and was then studying at CIM for both solo and collaborative piano. so, technically, such a background attracted my attention and after 1st couple of lessons, i knew i made a good choice.

What a delightful community you have here. My many thanks for the warm reception and advice given.

I'll share some of my experiences with my first lessons to give you a better understanding of what is running through my mind.

Incidentally, I hope I didn't come across implying that a music performance degree makes for an unqualified teacher. I personally, think it’s very possible to be a good teacher without a Master's degree in Music Education. I'm very sure that there are people with MME degrees who are impatient, uncaring, unenthusiastic and cold, just as there are people with performance degrees that demonstrate the complete opposite characteristics. My question was actually if there is an 'increased probability' that one with a formal music education degree will likely provide a better learning experience.

Anyway, more about my first lessons.

All of the lessons have been paid for. I'm respectful of these teachers' time, just as I hope they'll be respectful of mine. :-)

All three teachers had a Masters Degree in Piano Performance. Two of them asked me to play 'something'. One did not. I found this extremely odd, wondering how can she assess my starting point (skills) and be able to effectively conceptualize my particular training path.

None of the three asked me what my goals where, which I found extremely odd. How can they effectively guide me, if they don't know where I want to go? Perhaps, they have it predetermined in their minds, but didn't communicate a long-term strategy of my learning path. Again, I found this odd.

One of them offered me a critique of my playing. She said that "I didn't use the right fingering and that parts seemed muddled (but was semi-successfully 'covered' with the pedal)." I'm didn't mind the criticism in the least (in fact I welcomed it), but was discouraged that she didn't make a connection of a problem to a resolution. What was I expected to do with the comment? If just left me kind of dangling. I was hoping she'd say, "Let me play it for you and tell me if you can hear a difference. Here are the right fingers to use and let me explain what benefits you'll get from doing it this way. Here's were you should release the pedal and allow me to explain the concepts of determine the 'right' time to pedal."

Perhaps I'm expecting too much, but these kinds of things seem very basic, not to mention, common sense to me.

Betty, thanks for referring me to the Martha Beth Lewis website. I spent about an hour on there today. Looks like a wealth of information. Will return for more later.

What is the consensus on classical music? All of the teachers I interviewed were classically trained pianist. Is this the necessary path if you want to become a good, solid pianist? To be honest, classical music is not my cup of tea (first choice) and would much rather practice on music I really enjoy (pop and maybe a few jazz pieces). I'll do it if that's what it takes, but was wondering if there were alternative methods. I'd also love to be able to learn improvision or to play buy ear. I've been watching others playing on youtube.com, for inspiration and to listen to the difference between good playing and bad. Some people say, "I don't have the sheet music to give you. My hands just move." Would love to be able to one day reach a level like that? Can that be taught or is it a "you either can or can't" type situation.

But back to my original question.

What kinds of questions would you ask a potential piano teacher, if you were in my shoes.

What kinds of questions would raise a red flag for you?

Again, I really appreciate all the advice given.

What experience do you have teaching other adults? What do you like about it and what do you find most challenging? How is it different from teaching children?

How do you go about diagnosing what someone's learning style is and how do you adjust your lessons to teach to their learning style? What is your own learning style?

What factors determine whether someone can successfully learn to play the piano well? What challenges do you see as being typically encountered by adults? How do you address these issues through your way of teaching?

What kind of music do you play for your own enjoyment? Do you perform as a professional or amateur or do you continue to take continuing education (master classes, diploma exams, workshops, etc.)? Do you see this as having relevance to your success as a teacher?

How would you rank the following characteristics in terms of importance to having lessons lead towards success in playing the piano (supplant list to include your own personal values):

- fun
- discipline
- organisation
- technique
- musicality
- imagination
- achievement
- goal-setting
- talent
- practice methods
- industriousness
- chemistry teacher-student
- desire
- self-expression

What do you see as missing from the list?
Why did you choose this order?
For the item you see as most important, how do you address it in your teaching practice?

How would you describe your ideal student? Your nightmare student?

Would you mind playing something for me that you personally take enjoyment in playing?

Could I please play something for you and get your objective feedback on it?

Could you work with me on this other work in progress piece and help me see what the next step should be in my learning it?

Could you provide me with a piece that, based on what you have just heard, you think would be within my reach and, after seeing me attempt to sight read it, give me a short lesson in how to take the next right steps in learning it most effectively?

Assuming I am serious in wanting to learn to play the piano at a much higher level than I am now capable, what would your advice be to me?

-- Hope this helps
Asking the questions is easy. Paying attention to their answers, trusting your intuition and being willing to take a gamble on someone where the first-moment chemistry might not be there but where you think you could learn a lot; that is the hard part left for you.

akira,

Since you mention classical piano is not your cup of tea, and you wish to be able to do pop/jazz, perhaps you need to be searching for the teacher who can deliver this to you as the major part of your program.

What have you played with your previous teachers?

I think you are very observant about what went on and didn't go on - when you thought some things were strange. I would encourage you to speak up as it's happening by asking questions such as: "Would you have anything to add to help me understand how to work on improving what you noticed about my playing?" Or, "What should I direct my attention to?"

The one who critiqued your playing certainly had enough of a track to teach for several weeks followup for giving you instruction on what she identified at your lesson.

About Martha Beth Lewis - there is so much on this website I found myself interested in everything (as a teacher) and there was a lot of profound advice there from Martha Beth. She is a unique, talented communicator, with enthusiasm and energy galore for piano teaching. She is also strong on business practices for teachers, and she has realistic advice. Did you also find her "Chocolates" and "Embroidery" interests? She's a mix of humor and wisdon. Enjoy!

Betty

one thing you have to talk a potential teacher is that what is your goal in piano, and if the teacher can help you. if you don't ask such a question, teachers wouldn't know what to say to you.

when i emailed my teacher, i told him exactly what i want and what i have been playing or learning (including a list of pieces i had learned), and i told him exactly what type of music i'm interested in (classical exclusively) and asked if he can help me or else i'd look for someone else. so, when my teacher email back, the 1st thing he said is that he can help me.

therefore, it's important for you to raise questions to any potential teacher and ask if he/she can help you to achieve your goal. if the teacher cannot or don't show you in what possible ways he/she would teach you, then find another teacher. but the point is that you're looking for what you want in a teacher and you have to ask questions to verify if the teacher is good enough to teach you to reach your goal.

also, my teacher told me in email before our 1st lesson that what i would be expected to do: playing a few pieces i know. so, i did that although i played pretty badly and was nervous. but after that, my teacher told me that he's happy with my basic techniques, my hand position etc. regardless how i played and even demo'ed a little bit on piano to explain what he's saying, and then told me what to work on for next lesson... just to give you an idea about my 1st lesson.

No, you are not expecting too much. A good piano teacher right from the start even from the 1st lesson will ask to listen to a piece, critic it, sit down, discuss your goals with you and present you various options. That's what my present teacher did.

Perhaps I'm expecting too much, but these kinds of things seem very basic, not to mention, common sense to me.

Not only is this 100% reasonable, I would add my two cents worth, which is to run, not walk, away from any teacher who does less.

What boggles my mind are transfer students who come to the studio for an interview, and are not prepared to play something for me, who forget their music, or who brings illegal copies of music to play!

Many younger students seem to think they are having an exam, and are quite nervous. This is understandable, and we have to bend over backwards to put them at ease. In truth, we need to have an idea of where they are, so we can begin the process of determining their study needs.

I keep a portfolio of sight-reading pieces at hand for transfer student interviews. I cannot tell you how many students I've interviewed over the years who have come in, played something quite nicely, and then, when given some reading slightly below the level they just played, haven't a clue. This becomes an embarrassing situation for everyone.

I myself can't imagine not asking a new student what brings him or her to the piano. For a beginner I ask why he or she wants to play the piano, and for a transfer I ask what they want to do with the skills they hope to acquire.

I'm in agreement with John. Any teacher who does not try to assess what your goals are is not thinking of your long-term progress, and probably will not do such a great job of guiding you towards it.

Re: the younger students, John, when I get new transfers that are in the beginning or intermediate level, I ask them to play for me a recent piece they think they can do best. I find this sometimes alleviates some of the nervousness, and they want to show me what they can do, rather than be afraid of what I'm going to say to them.

You're very right on that point. In my (non musical) professional career I've interviewed hundreds of job applicants. In more than a few cases, I've hired some people who very polished during the interviewed, but failed miserably on the job. The best person for the job is not 'always' the one who presents themselves the best. Intuition is a tough thing to master. Thank you, for all your thoughtful suggestions.

I think this is where our thinking differs, Betty. I normally ask a ton of questions when I am trying to make an informed decision about a particular situation. Of course, with a limited understanding (on any particular subject matter) and without any point of reference, the dilemma becomes "What questions am I not asking?" This is where I am relying on an experienced music teacher to offer the information to me, so I can gain a full understanding of both the problem, and more importantly, the solution. So, in a way, I am purposely trying not to pry the information out of them, but rather, look at these first interviews as sort of a test to see if they will offer it and if they are problem solving oriented in their thinking.

I'm a little confused by your comment. Perhaps, you can elaborate more as why you feel this way. Not trying to be combative, but it almost sounds like you're saying that via these auditions, the teacher would be picking the students, rather than the other way around. I don't know whether you found my use of the word 'interview' offensive, but maybe phrase 'information gathering meeting, so I can make an informed decision' might be more palatable. :-)

I studied for only about a year (or maybe a year and half), so my background is very limited. My teacher was a co-worker I used to know when I worked at a retail store. She was Juilliard trained in piano (and voice, I think) and mentioned that she'd like to start giving piano lessons. Having always wanted to play piano as a kid (but never did), I jumped at the chance. My gut feel was that because I was one of her first students, she was not very experienced (at that time). I didn't learn from any method book (like Alfred's, which is what all the teachers I'm talking to now are recommending), but rather, I just bought pop music I like. Looking back on it, I think the some of the material was far too difficult for a beginning piano student, but because I was determined to learn, practiced like crazy and was eventually able to perform it without people running for their lives (that's another way of saying, it was mediocre, at best).

But to answer your question, some of the pieces I played were:

- Fur Elise (Beethovan) - some parts easier than others, some parts very difficult for me
- Nocture in Eb (Chopin) - VERY difficult for me
- Memory (from the musical Cats) : Andrew Lloyd Webber - somewhat difficult
- What I Did for Love (from the musical Chorus Line) - easier
- Love Story - easier

The two classical piece I learned was to please my mother. Whoah. A lot of work, and not too much enjoyment.

Would appreciate more opinions on whether learning with classical music will give me a better probability that I'll become a stronger pianst (all other things being equal - e.g. amount of practice, desire, determination, etc.).

Thanks again for your continued contributions to this thread.

"I just typed in my zip code to try to find a teacher using the MTNA web site. Two teachers popped up, and one was 65 miles away. None of the recognized people with active studios and excellent students in my greater geographical area is in their data base. This doesn't mean that I think the MTNA is not useful. I'm just not sure that its membership necessarily catches a random sample of the best teachers available." --PianoDad

The teachers whose information comes up when you search on the MTNA website are only the teachers who have gone through the certification process. The list of certified teachers does not show all of the many members that may be in your area that have not gone through this process. It would be a good idea for someone looking for a teacher to call one of the certified teachers on the list, because he/she would have access to the names and numbers of all of the other MTNA members in their area, most of which are excellent teachers. Many great teachers don't go through the certification process because it is very detailed and costly, and very difficult if you don't have a degree in music. If you do have a degree in music, it is much easier -- although still costly -- , although it is a good indication that the particular teacher takes their teaching seriously, is well-trained, and is qualified. (I am currently beginning the certification process myself).

Most teachers who are even somewhat serious about teaching are members of MTNA (and subsequently their local chapters) with the exception of teachers who are connected with colleges/universities/conservatories/prep. departments for conservatories/etc.