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Well, not in this thread, I don't think I think you have me mixed up with someone else, John. In this thread, anyway, what I commented on was students asking questions.

Wait! Is there another jotur?!?

Cathy

But this is precisely the concern that I have tried to express several times. It is not about "rights of property" because if I have missed a lesson you owe me for services not rendered. If these are full, regular lessons and I am forced to miss a lesson for unavoidable reasons, the idea that I cannot make up that lesson is a disturbing thought. I practice 4 hours a day when everything is going as it should, so that means after practicing 28 hours, I have to go another 28 hours before having another lesson. What if I have started to go off track? By the time two weeks have passed I'm really off track, and it may take 2 -3 weeks to undo the damage. If I must, and if I can afford it, I'll pay for a makeup lesson, but it seems important to have that makeup lesson.

What I have been reading is that it is too bad - if you miss a lesson then under no circumstance will it be made up. And if it's urgent for the sake of what is being learned? I doubt that is what is meant, but that is what is coming across.

I have also written repeatedly that the discussion has remained on economics and marketplace realities: services rendered, services paid for, rights and privileges - and that the purpose of lessons is not being seen anywhere in the discussion. It is good to see it being addressed in your post, John.

I am not interested in the question of make-up lessons as a paid-for right. I am interested in them in terms of the function of regular lessons and how they affect learning. Instrument playing is a physical and aesthetic skill - it is not just head knowledge for which one can cram.

Oh please, this is the very reason why I avoid adult students like the plague!

I won't treat adults any different regarding make-up lessons than my students under 18!

Adult students won't get any special treatment! No matter how they try to paint their so called busy lives, I have a busy life too!

Of course, my policy explicitly states that any exceptions are up to my discretion. This means that in certain circumstances (usually with adults) I can be flexible. However, I got caught on the bad end of that when a student got in the habit of not coming rather than coming, then I wondered why I was reserving her time slot. I generally take things on a case-by-case basis, and decide form there. When things get out of line, then I have my written policy to fall back on.

Keystring, Sorry, but I am confused as to what you are saying.

Are you saying that if a teacher has to cancel a lesson... or are you saying if you have to cancel a lesson?

Either way, life happens. And in my studio I very rarely have canceled a lesson. I would think you and others could find a teacher where it is rare for the teacher to cancel.

As far as the student canceling, that is out of the teacher's control. So because of this, you would have to go with the studio policies that your teacher set forth regarding make-ups.

I guess I really do not understand what it is you are saying. Are you saying that if you miss a lesson, you think that the teacher should make it up because a student should not go two weeks without a lesson and that it is the teachers responsibility for this not to happen?

Pianobuff, my thoughts are the same as what John has just written - that a missed lesson can set a student back. My thought is that there are certain times in particular when it is crucial not to wait. I mean a lesson that the student has missed becuase of an emergency or similar that cannot be helped.

If I have missed a lesson I would hope that it would be possible to book a replacement in the event that it is crucial for whatever reason. Paying for such an extra lesson would be fine - just so long as it is not something that is always out of the question in all circumstances because of strict policy.

If it is not crucial, then it is not a concern. For example, if I have been ill I also will not have been able to practice so there is not much of a reason for having a lesson at that point.

KS

Keystring,

I think I am now understanding what you are saying.

But there is no way around sometimes missing a weekly lesson. It is life. You need to get by the best you can. If it is you not being able to make the lesson or the teacher having to cancel, either way it isn't that drastic. Just as long as it happens very infrequently.

I feel by having a no-make up policy makes the student less lilkely to miss the lesson.

Wouldn't you think?

Keystring,

We must have posted at the same time.

If I had a student as serious as you that would be willing to pay me for the lesson missed that week because of an emergency, then I would do all I could to make-up that lesson, and I would try my best to not charge them for it as well.

Like a lot of us teachers have said. There are exceptions.

Although, I remember having one adult student who always canceled and wanted a make-up... it was *so" important to her. But I must say it was annoying to me. And disruptive to the studio as a whole.

But a one time emergency would more than likely be a different story.

Ok, we're on the same wavelength now.

For the other:
I suppose for certain types of individuals this might be a factor. If your lessons are taken for granted, if the individual is not aware of the impact this has on your life, and/or the person has little empathy - yes.

Btw, your mailbox is full.

KS

Well, there is also the option of dropping these students from the studio. Of course, I can't do that until I fill the studio first.

Cathy, aka Jotur, I did get you mixed up with another "J" and I am sorry. Please accept my apologies.

No problem. If there was another me, then *that* would be a problem!

Cathy

I would never charge by the quarter or semester, for a few reasons:

1) A fair number of my student's families have two or three children taking lessons from me.

2) Canadian winters!!!

3) Some students needing extra lessons no matter how you try to avoid that. Therefore I'd lose money!

4) Illness, I couldn't teach for 3 weeks due to bronchitis last winter. Plus I occasionally experience strong side effects from the medication I take for a couple of conditions.

5) I take lessons myself, on two instruments (plus rhythmic training lessons on top of that!), and my own teachers (and even some of my own student's families) have paid for lessons on a twice-monthly basis. Even when I was taking lessons on clarinet a number of years ago, I would not have been able to pay for more than a couple of weeks lessons at a time.

6) Think if it from the customer's point of view: if they had a choice between a teacher who charges monthly and a teacher who charges by the quarter or semester, many would probably go to the monthly. I myself would never go to a quarter or semester plan. Students and their families can have all kinds of problems in their lives, I had one very good family that had to miss some lessons last year for various good reasons. After all, there is a saying to do unto others what you would like to have them do unto you! And sometimes a family may need to move on short notice, which would make coming to you for lessons totally unfeasible!

Meri

While it appears we're in agreement that it's important for the student to have regular instruction, the subject of who is responsible for "making up" the missed lesson seems is quite open for debate.

Is it the parent's responsibility to get students organized and to lessons, or is it the teacher's?

If you reply that it's the parent's responsibility, then why does the responsibility for the missed lesson suddenly shift to the teacher? The teacher didn't miss the lesson.

Consider the organ teacher who must rent a facility, usually a church, and drive there herself to give a lesson. If the student doesn't show up, is it the teacher's responsibility to underwrite the expenses involved, and then to expend the same expenses a second time for the student, so he can have a make-up lesson?

Or how about if I rent the local concert hall for an afternoon so one of my students can come and practice for a recital, but the student fails to show. Does the expense involved belong to the student or to me?

Teaching out of a studio in a home only changes the venue, not the circumstances. The teacher's overhead remains; the teacher's lost time remains. The only thing which didn't occur was the actual lesson, and that was the fault of the student, not the teacher.

Although I am willing to reschedule lessons in advance, obviously, make-up lessons is just another way of saying the parent wants something for nothing, at my expense.

Here are some examples I've encountered:

- Schools closed for snow. Student doesn't show. I call on cell phone and student is at mall. Guess what, no makeup lesson.

- Best friend is having a birthday party. Parents, make a choice - piano lessons or partying.

- Trip to Disney Land. Sorry, this isn't educational. In fact, I'm hard pressed to come up with a single redeeming feature of such a trip.

I try to impress upon my students and their families that when they study music with me, they are studying in exactly the same circumstances as if they signed up for a class at the local college. I am not providing a day care facility with "fun" activities for children. I'm engaged in a serious business to help parents educate and enrich their children's lives.

Meri, your post left me gasping. Do you really teach? Your profile doesn't specify.

Let's go through your points.

1) A fair number of my student's families have two or three children taking lessons from me. So what? I have 3 cars. Should the gas station give me a lower gas prices?

2) Canadian winters!!! So what do other businesses do during inclement weather?

3) Some students needing extra lessons no matter how you try to avoid that. Therefore I'd lose money! Ask yourself why do they need extra lessons? Are you assigning material which is too difficult for them? Are they not preparing lessons at home properly?

4) Illness, I couldn't teach for 3 weeks due to bronchitis last winter. Plus I occasionally experience strong side effects from the medication I take for a couple of conditions. Almost every teacher who has participated in this discussion has some sort of provision for when they must miss a lesson.

5) I take lessons myself, on two instruments (plus rhythmic training lessons on top of that!), and my own teachers (and even some of my own student's families) have paid for lessons on a twice-monthly basis. Even when I was taking lessons on clarinet a number of years ago, I would not have been able to pay for more than a couple of weeks lessons at a time. I wonder - do you pay your rent by the month? How about your utilities? If you can budget for these, why couldn't you budget for your lessons?

6) Think if it from the customer's point of view: if they had a choice between a teacher who charges monthly and a teacher who charges by the quarter or semester, many would probably go to the monthly. I myself would never go to a quarter or semester plan. Students and their families can have all kinds of problems in their lives, I had one very good family that had to miss some lessons last year for various good reasons. After all, there is a saying to do unto others what you would like to have them do unto you! And sometimes a family may need to move on short notice, which would make coming to you for lessons totally unfeasible! It's true that there are some parents who lead such irresponsible lives, that being able to pay by the month is beyond them, but why does that make you their banker? Moving necessitates a withdrawal, and most teachers have provisions in their policies for needing to quit before the term/semester/year ends.

You also quote the Golden Rule, but I wonder, wouldn't you really want a teacher to deal with you professionally rather than haphazardly? Wouldn't their professionalism inspire you to work harder?

John, are all student such frivolous frik fraks? What you are describing is inexcusable behaviour and I would hope these attitudes would be the exception rather than the norm. Is there nobody who displays both character and responsibility, which until recently I thought was the norm. If true, what a sad state of affairs.

The only point of John's I disagree ith is....the week at Disneyworld. I believe this would qualify as a vacation, which would be a "planned" abscense. I would get plenty of advanced notice for this.

Everything else is spot on.

H1

KS - no, all students are not such "frik fraks." But judging from comments relayed by other teachers and my own experiences, far too many parents support missing a lesson for a friend's birthday party. I'm usually taken off guard when a parent offers that up as an excuse. I really don't want to insult them, but it's hard not to.

By the way, has anyone else noticed that the "system" clock has been reset to Peking time, but yesterday?