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Just when I thought I made my mind up for a digital piano for my 5 year old daughter, another teacher we visited advised against the digital piano. It seems like every piano teacher we speak to, other than young instructors with only 5 or so years teaching experience, always strongly recommend the acoustic.

So I thought I would ask the teachers on this forum what they thought of a 5 year old learning on a Yamaha CLP-170 vs something like a low-end new Yamaha or Kawai acoustic upright? I'm referring to something in the $3000-$3500 price range. My intention is to have this instrument last her 5-10 years.

Thanks for your comments.

3000-3500 should be fine. I've been workin with a $150 yard sale one all my life lol and it hasn't imo hurt my playing or anything. But yes acoustic is the way to go. That way you can bring out dynamics and it has a more realistis feel.

Acoustics are better. The sound and the action make it a more visceral experience.

I feel this is a critical decision and you absolutely should buy an acoustic piano. I've been playing piano for 30 years. I've sold both types of instruments but only the acoustics with joy and conviction. PLEASE don't buy electric. It's the worst mistake you can ever make. They depreciate in value. In 10 years, you'll only get a couple of hundred bucks for it. Your children will quit earlier on an electric piano. Their technique will be sloppy. They will lose interest in the sound they create. And the acoustic piano is the most beautiful instrument in the world.

Hi David,

I am a teacher with about 50 or so students, and I have found electronic keyboards are good for the first two years of learning. After that, when their technique improves then they would need a weighted keyboard instrument, e.g. acoustic piano.

There is ONLY one advantage of an electronic keyboard, it is MUCH cheaper than an acoustic piano. also it is a safer option especially if its for a 5 year old kid, because alot of kids do give up because they have no interest in it after a couple of months, and if you're going to buy a piano, it would be like a good piece of furniture without ever being used.

My advice is to get the cheapest casio keyboard you can buy, and if the teacher is experienced enough, they would recognised if your kid is a natural in the first couple of weeks/months, THEN you should consider buying an acoustic piano.

Another option is renting a piano for the first year to see if your kid is interested it. Then maybe you can buy a piano after that? Just dont spend alot of money first up, because ALOT of kids DO GIVE up within the first year or so.

Hope this advice helps you.

I agree wholeheartedly with Kreisler and Candyman.

I have taught over 150 students of all ages and abilites over the past 18 years. I will not teach a student who only has access to practice on an electric keyboard.

The keyboard doesn't offer the same experience as an acoustic piano. Your child needs weighted keys and pedal. Having an eletric keyboard as a second instrument for fun is a great addition, but not as the main instrument.

I respectfully disagree with Animato. Your child should learn proper technic from the beginning, not after a couple of years.

charlene

I completely agree with the acoustic piano proponents. Once, when I had both Yamaha and Bösendorfer ~7' grands in my studio, these little students of mine would march right past that Yamaha to play the Bösendorfer. Children recognize quality at an early age. They just don't have the vocabulary to talk about it. My little students know when their pianos are out of tune, or need work. They will appreciate the respect you have both for them and for the job of learning to play. It's a win-win. You can rent, or you can buy, and pianos hold their value for a long time. (So I agree with Charlene--but have been teaching twice as long lol!)

Quality Digital Pianos nowadays do have very sophisticated hammer driver weighted actions that simulate the feel of an acoustic( albeit not 100% accurately) and have all 3 pedals( with half pedaling capabilites). The higher end digitals even have wooden keys( the CLP-170 being one of them). For a 5 year old, I think a quality digital piano would be one of the better options as the financial commitment is not huge, and a quality digital is much better than a poor acoustic IMHO( I went through the whole acoustic vs digital on a budget thing recently). Plus what you lose in depriciation will be gradually made up by the money you save on maintenence. Perhaps some of the older teachers have written off newer digital pianos without trying them based on their bad experience with older ones. Maybe not though.

Oh, btw, I'm just some piano schmuck. I'm not a teacher. I just went through a similar experience as you is all.

I almost bought a Yamaha digital piano 7 or 8 years ago. I am so glad that I didn't, and never will. Yes, you can have weighted key action and the sampling of the best Yamaha acoustic piano's sound, however, no matter how many speakers it has, a digital piano will never make the real piano sound.

There are only two advantages I can think of when you buy a digital one:
1) it offers a interface that you can play it with your computer.
2) you don't have to test drive it when you buy, having the convenience of buying on line or through mail order.

I always believe that a good used acoustic piano will be sufficient for a young beginner's needs. But it is going to be a somewhat painful time-consuming experience if you don't have any expertise of pianos. But I know many teachers are willing to screen used pianos for their prospective students.

Thank you and I very much appreciate everyone's comments. My wife and I have really been strugling with this. A decision either way has its advantages and disadvantages. With the higher end digital pianos such as the Yamaha CLP-170, I wish to believe that sound quality and action are not the deciding factors for making the decision of this specific digital piano vs. a low end acoustic.

Some have said the CLP-170 will absolutely sound more like an acoustic grand piano and have better touch than a low-end new upright in the $3500 range. My Yamaha dealer said whe would much prefer playing on the CLP-170 rather than any of their used uprights, and they have several models.

So I feel it comes down to the following:

(1) The CLP-170 still isn't a "real piano", and if we can live with that stigma than so be it.

(2) Digital pianos lose value much more quickly than a good acoustic, but if resale isn't important, than it's a non-issue. However, I've seen some later model low end used uprights that nobody wants (Baldwin, Pearl River for example). And forget the spinets.

(3) My daughter will learn fine with either one. Later in life if she's serious we can spend the money for a decent new or used acoustic that isn't the bottom line model.

(4) With a digital I don't have to deal with twice a year piano tunings, and it's always in tune and always sounding its best.

(5) The CLP-170 has midi, usb, etc. and offers much more flexibility and value for learning and entertainment options. Not to mention my involvement with her with the computer and the piano.

(6) The CLP-170 has many voices, which at this point could be a deterrent to my daughter strictly learning to play the piano rather than play with the sounds as if it were a toy. Maybe there would be a way I could disable some of these extra functions.

(7) An acoustic has a feel, richness or certain authenticity that will be lacking in the CLP-170.

(8) The CLP-170 could easily be moved from her music room to our living room for family "performances".

Would you agree or disagree with my summation? (I know this is subjective because some of you may not be familiar with the CLP-170 but rather digital pianos in general).

Thanks again.
Dave

Yamaha have a Disklavier Series which is both an acoustic and an electric piano. Does anyone have any experience with these instruments.

It appears you have fallen in love with the CLP 170 despite the reasoned advice of seasoned professionals. That's why you and your wife are struggling with this decision.

I agree with Candyman that you have fallen in love with the CLP 170. In your original post you say you'd like to use this instrument for 5 - 10 years and that your daughter is 5. Does this mean that you only expect her to be able to play well enough for a digital instrument when she's 10? When she's 10 she could easily be playing simpler Chopin and Mozart--not something you'd want to do on any digital piano. (And although I've been teaching for a long time, I'm not too old to have recently played--and owned-- the more sophisticated digital instruments. They're great and all, but they are what they are: not acoustic. Not the instruments for which this music was written.) I assume you will want your daughter to play as well as she has potential to--get her the best acoustic instrument you can afford. Or else get her a less expensive digital for a few months so you can look more exhaustively. Some of my students have started on digital pianos, and somewhere in the middle of the second year we come straight to a grinding halt until they can get some kind of acoustic instrument. And it's not that I'm even remembering that they're practicing on keyboards. It becomes clear that something is holding them back; the parents get called and we hash it out and it turns out they're practicing on a digital. Happens every time. (And the better the acoustic, the better, as well. An adult student of mine, who'd been progressing as well as I thought I could expect of him, recently bought a beautiful new Grotrian and he sounds wonderful. The instrument is bringing out the best he has, musically--what a difference!)

David--

Candyman is again correct.

I have taught with the Yamaha disclavier as well as on a clavinova when I was teaching adjunct with a university 4 years ago. Both do a fine job, but are not the best choices for daily practice unless the models have changed significantly in the past 4 years.

It appears that you have made your choice regarding the piano as well as what age is best appropriate to begin lessons (although that is beside the point at the moment)and you just want validation for your choices. I can't with clear conscience give you what you want.

You would be wise to listen to what seasoned teachers say regarding this as opposed to a sales rep. No one here has anything to gain by suggesting you purchase the acoustic, for what it's worth.

Good luck,

Charlene

Hi all

I think we as teachers are all missing the point here. If finances is not an issue, then I would definately get an acoustic piano. However the child in question is only 5 YEARS OLD!

Of all the students that you have taught at 5 years old, how many have actually stay? From my experiences I have had about 10 or so 5 year olds and under, and I can only think of only two who actually are stilled with me.

The others have given up or their mind wasnt mature enough to grasped the concept of music. So i told them to come back when their 7 or 8 years old. By that time, they have lost interest in it all together.

Parents like to romanticised about their kids being the next Mozart. But not all of us have an iq of over 180. Reality is alot of 5 years old are too young to learn music.

So to suggest a parent to go out and buy an acoustic piano for a beginning student who is 5 years old in my opinion is a very risky investment.

On the other side of the coin you can say that your kid is the 2/10 five year olds who are intelligent enough to understand music at such an early age and therefore would get a better start. Sure, but then again 2/10 isnt a very high percentage.

Im not a fan of electronic keyboards either, but Im not a fan of parents wasting a lot of money on an instrument that isnt going to get used.

So David, be wise about your decision. If money isnt an issue get an acoustic, but if money is an issue then invest in a cheap electronic keyboard, and upgrade later when your child gets better

Good luck

Once again, thanks for your feedback. After I made my post last night I realized I favored the digital. The funny thing is that before I began writing the summation, I thought I was truly neutral. So I'm guilty as charged for favoring the digital.

I really appreciate everyone's comments and I'm considering everything that was said. Either way, I need to decide soon because my daughter already started her first piano class last week and she really loves it.

Dave

Animato--My experience with 5 year olds has been the exact opposite of yours--I've had wonderful success with them, and most of them have stayed with the instrument for many years. This is in no way a reflection on either of our teaching abilities, just different experiences--I don't mean to criticise your teaching--I have been teaching longer than you, and it's just a matter of numbers LOL! (I've been teaching twice as long as some of you have been alive!) So, let's assume that David's daughter is one of those.

I am not a piano teacher or a sales rep, but I am a piano player and a fan of digital pianos. I have played both and I love grand pianos. One advantage not mentioned is volume control and headphones.

I only post because my personal opinion is that Yamaha digital pianos have a very stiff key action and an incredibly hard bottom when you press firmly. I warn against them. I would recommend looking at Roland and Kawai pianos.

There is a night a day difference between inexpensive and more expensive digital pianos. I think you need to spend at least $2500 for one that feels like you are playing a real piano. I expect that most of the digital pianos that parents buy for children are cheap ones, unless the parent plays the piano. The comments about weighted keys not being weighted imply this. I feel that my Roland HPi-7 has a nicer keyboard action than any upright.

Associated Board of the Royal Shools of Music, the Australian Music Examination Board and Converatory Canada have all approved the use of Roland Digital pianos for examination purposes.
Perhaps they have gotten better.

I am definately not a teacher but I do have the oportunity to play several different types of acoustic and digital pianos on a regular basis (I personally have both). I have to say that some of the above ressponses are clearly uninformed to downright laughable.

Modern (less than 2 years old) high quality (no not casio keyboards for children to play with as toys) digital pianos (not portable synthesizers with synth action keyboards) are truely remarkable instruments that are as good or better than most upright pianos in terms of quality of tone and action. Their actions are remarkable, and unlike many acoustics, actually consistant.

The specific model that DavidPJ mentions is Yamaha's top of the line (current) digital that is truely a remarkable instrument, and not some 10 year old keyboard based on obsolete technology.

Go to your the local Yamaha/Roland/Kawai dealer and try their CURRENT top models. I suspect tham many of you might actually change your opinions of digitals.

Sorry for the rant and it isn't my intention to offend anyone but it just appears that many posters opinions are uninformed or out of date.

Rodney

Just here to second Rodney's post, some people's outright dismissal of digital pianos really is laughable, to be frank.
I play the piano myself to beyond Grade 8 standard, I've played most types of acoustic piano, as well as most models in the current digital ranges. These instruments aren't to be snuffed. For the budget mentioned of $3000, I have NEVER encountered an acoustic piano for this price that is as good as the digital for the same price. In my experience, being that the digital is sampled from a $100,000+ piano, combined with a reliable, consistent and responsive action, the digital wins hands down every time.

This isn't just my view, my father is a piano teacher and concert pianist, and had the same view as some of you, until a couple of years ago when I showed him what today's digitals can do. He (reluctantly... :p ) agreed with me!

I also know many other teachers/professional pianists who share a positive view on digitals.

My point is, I don't mind individuals not liking digital pianos, but it annoys me when someone asks for advice and then is mocked for his choice of a digital.

" It appears you have fallen in love with the CLP 170 despite the reasoned advice of seasoned professionals. That's why you and your wife are struggling with this decision."

Also, as Rodney said, you cannot give a useful opinion on this subject unless you have tried the latest models. I suggest you try some of:
Yamaha CLP170/175, Kawai CA-9, Roland HP107, Yamaha GT2/GT20/GT7, and then give us your opinions.