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Hi all, thanks for all the great topics here! I've really gained some insight. I'm a new teacher, and I only have one student so far. But I'm having a problem with him, wondering if anyone here can relate to this....

He is 11 yrs. old and started taking piano lessons from me about 4 months ago. He took lessons previously from a friend of mine, but her piano skills are limited and she can only "go so far" with her students. Unfortunately, this other teacher was not structured or disciplined in her approach, and this student of mine now thinks that I am mean because I actually try to make him play things correctly! His progress has been very slow becuase he doesn't practice enough (sometimes not at all), and he has trouble sightreading. But I'm using some note drills to try to help him with his sightreading. At his lesson yesterday, I tried to show him how he should be practicing, that he needs to play each line or measure SLOWLY at first and play them repeatedly until he gets it right. I could tell that he thinks I'm trying to torture him! He thinks that he should only have to play something once, and that's enough.

I don't think I'm being mean at all. I took lessons from 2 different teachers when I was growing up, and both of them expected me to do what I was told. I've also taught children of all ages in other subjects, and the children have enjoyed my instruction.

My #2 concern is that if I take on any more "transfer students" from the other teacher, that I will have the same problems with them! If this is the case, I would rather get beginning students and train them from the get-go. But, my best chances of getting other students right now is from the other teacher. (sigh)

Any suggestions? maybe my first student is just difficult, but it still makes me question myself.

Don't back off from encouraging your student to play slowly and repeatedly. This is absolutely correct. If he wants to be lazy and only play it once no matter how poorly, that does not indicate that you are expecting the wrong thing from him or teaching badly.
I am a regular classroom teacher of 4th, 5th, and 6th grade students during the school day, and I teach 9 piano students of various ages after school every two weeks. One suggestion for encouraging the 11 year old boy to see the importance of correctness (and the fact that it doesn't come from only one try) is to relate it to something else in his life. Is he a sports fan or participant? Discuss the fact that sports skills (in his life or in his favorite professional's life) take a lot of repeated correct practice.
When Michael Jordan was in high school on the varsity team, he used to attend his varsity practice AND the junior varsity practice as well because he wanted to improve his skills as much as possible. He worked to make things correct. He wasn't just born that way.

You know, I had that thought about comparing practicing to sports after my student left! He plays baseball, so perhaps explaining that you don't go out and swing the bat once, miss, and then say you are done practicing. I'll try that next week

Hi Lana, welcome back. Your experience is not unique in any way, so don't feel you're not doing the right thing.

You've stumbled on the "problem with transfer students" with a vengeance. Most students put their first teacher on a pedestal, draped in royal robes, on the top of Mt Olympus. It is very difficult for teachers accepting transfer students to introduce students to a new way of teaching and studying.

You may have to start a lesson soon with a "talk." Or discussion. You might try asking about the differences in classroom teachers the student has had. Explain that just because one teacher's methods are different from another doesn't make one good, the other bad. It makes them different. Further, what helps some students may not help others. You probably have already done so, but if not, you might explain the purpose of your drills. Also, you might play the piece through first the student's way, then your way, and quiz the student on all the differences he hears (you might have to repeat this process several times). Finally, you might explain that different teachers have different learning goals and expectations and review what yours are.

If that doesn't work, try humor. I frequently ask students what they thought we studied in music school. When they answer, I tell them, "Well, yes, we did learn to play the piano better, but the course I enjoyed the most was the one on how to torture students when they are taking lessons from you." Most students will get the ridiculousness of the statement before you even get to the end of it, and then connect the dots that you're really not trying to torture them at all, but help them learn.

Good luck.

Try to find some fun ways to give the student what he needs. Many times, students (especially transfers) don't "want" what they "need." The trick is to convince him that what he "needs" (i.e. solid instruction) is what he "wants."

Something that may help
1. asses the student's strong skills and weak skills
2. Find some "candy" pieces to supplement with his regular material. "Candy" pieces are fun and will keep him happy and interested in music (what he wants). "Candy" pieces are typically right at the student's level or even a little easier. This gives you ample opportunity to give him solid instruction and training for practice at home (what he needs).

Hope this helps.
Also, remember he is an 11 year old boy. Many things become "stupid" at that age, so don't take anything personally. Don't worry....just keep on truckin'

yep, this kid is definitely a pre-teen, and his attitude shows it! Fortunately, his mother is a school teacher and is all too familiar with the "stupid" phenomenon.

So, if I get any more transfer students from the other teacher, would it be wise to warn them beforehand that I do not teach like she does? I don't want to scare anyone away, but I also don't want to get a bad rep from my first batch of students!

Lana, I recommend that when interviewing the parents & student, you focus on what you do, how you teach, a typical lesson's content, etc. I feel it's important not to criticize another teacher or her teaching style, whether directly or by implication. For what the parent was paying, and what the teacher was offering, it was what they agreed upon, and they got what they paid for. Why should they feel badly?

Now that the student is more advanced, has different needs, or what ever, the focus should be on how the student is going to benefit by studying with you. Or as the kids say, not "should've, could've, would've."

Hi Lana

I'm a bit new at teaching too so still trying out new things. I am trying an experiment with just one student who has trouble focusing. We start by analyzing the score of a new piece (this is his second year so not difficult pieces). We find the hard places, the less hard places, the easy places, and circle and label them.
Then I hand him a page or two that I have copied from the book on my scanner. I "think" this is legal since he owns the book and of course I have a copy.
I have him practice NOT from the book but just from the copied sheets.
So if I want him to start at measure 13 and just practice the left hand for 8 measures, that's all he sees on the copy, I block everything else out.
We don't do this on but one piece at a time and we also do what others have called "candy" pieces.
So he really has only one piece that I consider a challenge at any one time.
I'm not going to say he sails through it but I think it is helping. He certainly can play better than he could when we started.

Hi Katie,

This should be perfectly legal under the fair use doctrine. You both own a copy, and you're using excerpts for educational purposes. Anyway, it sounds very creative. Keep us posted on his progress.

Analyzing the score is one thing that I've tried with my student. For his first recital piece, he would practice the easy parts more than the difficult ones, simply because he didn't like "struggling" with the difficult parts. I ended up photocopying only the difficult lines for him and taking his original music away just so he would be forced to play the difficult parts.

It sort of worked, but I found that the thing that really forced him to practice everything was to eventually have him perform the piece in front of a group. I guess the pressure was enough to cure his laziness

I have another thought, since you've received great tips on the actual playing/practicing side.

Often times as piano teachers we have a unique opportunity to teach students (of any age) about long-term goals, how to work towards them, and what practice is -- learning to do something you can't do right now.

Both kids and adults who are bright and quick to learn can many times get through school and jobs without ever learning these skills. Many people respond, "It's just too hard" to anything that takes more than a few tries to master. They're smart -- and fully capable of learning -- but they've never been taught how to break down long-term goals into manageable chunks.

You might try having a next-lesson goal that's completely different than playing the song. For instance, you could assign a different task to each day: one day, read all the notes aloud. From the end to the beginning, to make it like a game. The next day, tap out the rhythm using a homemade percussion instrument of choice (wooden spoons and a pot). The next day, look up the composer's life story on the internet with mom or dad.

Sometimes helping students to see that there are all kinds of ways to learn about music can help them be excited about then doing the actual practicing. If you give up a week or two of actual routine practice to give unusual "practice assignments" and then come back to the practicing issue, you might be able to sort of get in the back door and get him practicing and enjoying it in spite of himself.

Just a few ideas!

Best,

Kim

Katie,

Like they have said in other posts, he is worshipping his other teacher. You may want to back off until he trusts you more and then slowly introduce those things again.

Also, he probably doesn't realize he is playing it that bad, if his other teacher thought it was good, it must be. Try tape recording him and have him listen to it and critique himself. If he doesn't hear anything wrong, you play it the right way and see if he notices it then. If he says he doesn't notice, he is probably not being honest. Tell him you will being playing that recording for people he knows or at the begining of a recital. If he finally gives in and says he hears it, ask him to keep recording over and over, until he has a version he likes and if he needs help, tell him you can be there for him to give him a better version of it. Makes sure you can really play it for who you are telling him you will play it for, he may get proud of it and want you to show it.

If he can never hear that something is wrong with it, than you have a different problem.

I don't have any suggestions about technique, and others have already covered that. But I wanted to comment on the part I quoted above. There are definitely other ways of getting students and you shouldn't have to feel like you have to rely on this teacher's transfers. I would suggest:
calling or writing school music teachers to let them know you are available for piano lessons, craigslist (not sure if it works but it's free!), asking local music stores if you can post a flyer or leave business cards, or just talking yourself up. I can't tell you how many times I just mention that I play piano and people (without knowing anything about my qualifications) say "oh do you teach? I want my kids to learn!!!"

Good luck with everything! I know all about self-doubt but it sounds like you are doing a great job trying to do right by your students.

Oh, and about the repetition part, a teacher told me once "if you're driving your family crazy, you're probably practicing correctly" - that might help motivate because it there's one thing pre-teens enjoy more than making teachers crazy, it's making their parents crazy

Elaine

lana lang,

I always get the feeling of great patience of teachers, when reading these posts about difficult students of the piano.

It is to your credit that you can persist against the odds with some pupils. I would soon loose all interest in them if they were not keen to learn. This is a privilege that they are being taught music. However I would get the distinct feed back that piano is not for them. Or is that a fallacy, and as teachers you press on with it regardless of your inner thoughts, which may well be proved correct in due course.

Alan (swingal)

I don't think my student doesn't want to learn, I think he really enjoys playing music. The problem is, he doesn't like to play something if he can't do it perfectly the first time. "Messing up" tends to discourage him, and I think this may be a personality trait of his. On top of that, his former piano teacher didn't teach him to strive for accuracy, so he has some stumbling blocks to get over.

I used to teach painting and drawing classes for children, and I had a 9 yr. old boy who had no interest in any of my art projects. He never seemed to want to be there, and he complained all the time. After several classes went by, I spoke with his mother in private and suggested that perhaps her son should stop coming to my class because he seemed so unhappy. I'll never forget her response... she said that if she stopped taking her son to extra-curricular activities based on his negative attitude, that he would never do anything and just end up watching TV all the time!

As piano teachers, we should be instilling a work ethic in our students, not just teaching them how to play. At some point, everyone has to learn to work hard at something...it's part of life. But hopefully, as they progress, every piano student will learn to enjoy piano and appreciate how music enriches their lives.

Have you tried improvising with him? I recommend starting out with something very easy where it can't possibly sound bad, like all blakc keys. You play an accompaniment while he makes up a melody (one note at a time to start). He can't play a wrong note, because he's making it up, and it will help develop a little confidence in himself. Change up the improv sessions as he gets more comfortable to keep it fresh and exciting. Once he can trust himself more, he will feel better about his own mistakes in other pieces. I tried this with a student I interviewed who told me in front of his parents that he hated piano (he was there to take voice lessons). I had him come sit next to me at the piano and improvise on black keys, and from then on he was hooked! Now he's one of my most dedicated piano students.

Also, I highly recommend you read the book "The Perfect Wrong Note" by William Westney. He has tons of great ideas on how to deal with this very issue, and actually encourages students to make thsoe "juicy" mistakes, because those are the ones we learn from.

It is the isolationist teaching the piano which is “the fly in the ointment”.

Outside the ghastly piano lesson studio ... the 11 year boy’s life is like Tom Sawyer ... full of fun ... endlessly trying to duck chores.

All the adult rationalizing about “transfer students” and finding dull reasons for slow progress ... is just so much pussy-footing around the problem.

Unless a piano teacher can respond to the tugs which motivate a boy’s lifestyle ... all the “talking-to” in the world is going to fall on deaf ears.

The schools have been designed with their mass intake to raise standards by the simple format of COMPETITION ... which later tempers all our lives.

Put the boy in competition with his peers and watch him grow ... how the piano teacher gently engineers this process is the path to success.

btb, how right you are. I remember being half-party to a conversation between 2 very prominent teachers about a boy. His teacher was complaining how she couldn't get him to finish this or that. That he always wanted to play this or that but never finished anything. Her frustration was obvious and, knowing the teacher, I knew that was being put across to the child.

I felt so sorry for him. His piano lessons should have been a joy but instead both he and presumably his teacher, got guilt and frustration instead. Whatever approach a teacher takes the pupil must have a rewarding experience. One that suits their individuality. Or do we go back to rapping their knuckles?

Oh, I always have my student compete, as soon as they are old enough. Having those goals really help motivate, and if a student competes unprepared, they generally make sure the next time they are ready! But generally the "competitions" aren't really competing against anyone but themselves. Not all students are suited for high-pressure stuff like that.

I absolutely agree with the competition idea. My student learned his last recital piece very well, but only after I told him the date for his recital! Granted, a recital isn't quite the same as a competition, but it seems to have the same motivating effect.

I gave my student a new, 2-page recital piece to start learning 2 weeks ago. I went over the first couple of lines with him and established how he should be practicing it. I drilled him on the first line and he was able to play it perfectly. I told him to try to learn one line per day. Last week, I was so dissapointed at my student's piano lesson because he had only practiced the first line. The rhythm was incorrect and he was struggling to sightread the notes. I don't know what happened! His mother said he practiced it, so I guess he just forgot what I told him.

I guess I will have to set a date for his recital to motivate him more.