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Hi Sandy,
Basic anatomy and kinesiology are behind what you're saying about the flat hand and finger positions versus the "ball in hand" curved positions, and explain the difference in stresses at the fingers and wrists. When you curve the fingers, the wrist naturally pulls into a flexed position as well. This will then crimp, and restrict movement of, the tendons of the wrist and finger flexor muscles located in the forearm that control the downward pull of those structures. Three of those tendons travel through the carpal tunnel on their way into the hand. This is where the crimping and restriction will take place. Also, when you bring the tips of the fingers down on the key, in a piston like fashion, from this curved position, the compressive forces on the finger joints eventually will wear out the cartilage on the surface of the bones that protects these joints (osteoarthritis). Additionally, you will have less accuracy because a smaller portion of the finger actually comes in contact with the surface of the key, therefore, fewer positional, touch and pressure sensory nerves in the fingertips are relaying information to the brain about where the finger is in relation to the keys. The above shortcomings are absent when one positions the fingers and wrist into a more neutral position, close to horizontal with the keyboard.
Dan

Thank you Dan... This is excellent information and I will continue to use the flat hand method now... I only perform for fun now...Should I rest my hands one day a week as I have often read? Thank you so much again...Sandy B

Rest and stretching of the fingers, wrist and forearms can be beneficial, and prevent repetitive injuries. Glad I could be of assistance Sandy.....make music and enjoy!!!

Thank you so much Dan...Your information is so valuable...I plan to play piano until I am very old ...Your suggestions will long be remembered...Thank you again...Sandy B

Dan... you are on the ball as I was going to suggest the wrist problem person come to this Teacher's Forum for your info and I read the previous posts ...you were already onto this one...Great...Sandy B

May I make a small comment or two?

I watch as much film as possible (not because I want a close up of someone sweating profusely, as most camara-men seem to think!!) but to study the fingering and having never had lessons myself it was always my natural requirement to get the precision correct.

Two examples of jazz pianists, 'Erroll Garner' stabbing down fingers plus curved, never flat. Art Tatum flat fingers and the exponent of the most fantastic runs over 4/5 octaves down the piano of any pianist ever (IMO)

Art was taught classically. Erroll, self taught, jazz mostly, never clssical but used some of the traditional runs up and down the keyboard never flat hands. In fact he sat high above the keyboard on two telephone directories to gain sufficiant height! These are true facts.

Alan

I had two very fine teachers who 'demanded' a developed hand, i.e., firm knuckle bridge that did not cave in and strong fingers. One showed me early on, as Signa suggests in her post, to let the hands drop naturally by the side and, holding that position, put them on the keyboard which results in a very natural position. He did mention that the hand assumed various positions as the music sometimes required what might be considered unorthodox positions. But the higher bridge and somewhat curved fingers is a 'basic' position.

My teacher in Chicago had studied the two Russian schools of playing--one that developed facility but was not as prominent on tone and one that developed strength and tone.

On my music she would mark 'low wrist, flat fingers' or 'high wrist and play on the tips' which would achieve different tone coloring. Sometimes in a run/scale passage she would suggest low wrist to start and ending with a high wrist. She mentioned in an article she wrote that Horowitz played with a high wrist at times. I think this must have been in his early years as his later playing shows something different. She, my teacher, disliked percussive playing and from her experience with Gabrilowitsch (noted for his beautiful tone) and Safonoff, tried to inculcate that same quality in her students--rich, full sonority in heavier passages and utmost delicacy in softer passages but with projection that would reach the 'gallery' usually achieved by flat fingers and low wrist.

And as other posters have mentioned, relaxation is most important and she referred to that primarily as 'repose.'

Varcon, you say:- "She, my teacher, disliked percussive playing"

On an acoustic piano, surely all use of the piano keys is percussion? They are said to be percussion instruments? Unlike their nearest and root design, the Harp, which is plucked.

I realise that we should not dab our fingers at the keys in some cases, but that is a 'splitting hair' thing, yes?

Finally, it's not easy to tell someone to play in a certain way as most pianos have their own action touch, which then dictates the playing at the time.

That is a fundemental part of mastering any piano surely?

I have been playing for a long time and have never ever thought about how my fingers are used.

One adapts to the instrument perhaps?

Alan

Have a look at signa's link to "Genius of the Piano" (Pianist Corner) for the most revealing expose on correct use of the fingers of the hand ... largely based on the teaching of Chopin and the "natural" ball-shape of the hand on the keyboard. Pages 74-79 of Alan Kogosowski's book give a rivetting explanation of this approach.

Chopin is on record as teaching his pupils to accustom themselves to the ideal five-finger configuration at the the keyboard ... resting their hand upon it gently ... RH thumb on E and the next three fingers gently resting on the set of 3 black notes with the little finger on the upper C ... "getting used to connecting with the keyboard in this manner, then easily, without any force or strain, depressing each of the notes one by one."

The author has got a lot to say about the correct use of the thumb in advisadly returning to the "natural" hand position after brief extended thumb stretches for octaves ... he's so right in saying that any continued holding of the big stretch puts a rigid strain on the wrist and should be avoided.

Swingal: You're quite right that the instrument is percussion as the general definition of that is something that is hit or struck and, of course, the hammer hits the strings. However, some pianists have a rather blatant, harsh sound, while others seem to draw out beautiful sonorous qualities and on the same instrument.

While saying she disliked percussiveness, it might be lacking in precision of expression but I'm sure you understand that she was interested in getting a pleasing tonal result rather than a harsh, unpleasant quality.

She also disliked what she referred to as 'wiping the keys' and 'slapping the keys' which I think you refer to as 'dabbing'?

Of course, as you suggest, each instrument has it's own peculiarities which require the pianist to adjust the playing mechanism to it.

As to thinking about how the fingers work, it seems to be important, especially for those who might not have as 'natural' a position and use of them as others. Perhaps they need some direction to overcome movements that a teacher would consider deleterious to the student's progress. I've been playing a long time too and have never had wrist or finger problems which some have and I credit this to intelligent instruction from my best teachers and, perhaps, to some natural feel and use.

Thank you for your observations.

I had a little trouble reconciling the conflicting information on the different hand postures, but do appreciate the wealth of knowledge and experience being shared.

The above states that the wrist naturally pulls into a flexed position. It seems to me the wrist is free to sit where it wishes, high, low or in between, regardless of the shape of the hand. Am I missing something?

I have learned with curved fingers and teach this way, and am interested in analyzing the different approaches, both to understand varying students/physiques and for my own playing.

Secondly, with flat fingers.... is shifting not hindered smoothly as suggested in an above post (re: not being able to play a scale evenly at faster tempi)

Thirdly, does anyone know of any "exercise" that can help a young student build the necessary finger strength to maintain the curved finger shape? (assuming this post has not thusly rendered this approach invalid )

Kind regards,

Mike

I may have missed it but I cannot see any reference to the arm position and I always have to have my arm down at an angle towards the keys. Otherwise you are sitting at the piano like a child might or as a dog begs, with the hands almost curving at the wrists to reach the keys.

I remember past topics/posts on the matter of arm height (elbow) angle, relative to the hands. That is also a relative to the height of the bench to the key tops.

People complain about wrist pain after long playing sessions but I never get it. I would rather play standing up than struggle to sit too low if that's the option. I can recall a friend of mine who is about 6" shorter than I'm, yet she sits on a bench that is at least 6" too low for me!

Anyone else had this experience?

Alan