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Just found out, by accident, that one of my students has been playing in another teacher's recitals for the last 3 years! Just to clarify, my student gets absolutely no instruction from this other piano teacher whatsoever!

Also, there's no recognition that he's not his student. No announcement at his recitals that he's a guest! Nothing!

Maybe I should be please that my student gets an extra opportunity to perform publicly, which he loves doing? Maybe I should be flattered. But I have just never heard of this ever.

Totally confused about the whole thing at this point! And I'm speechless!

Any of your thoughts about what you would do in this situation would be very much appreciated.

I would have a "conniption" and in fact I'm having one right this minute in your behalf!

I'm amazed that this is a 3 year old happening and they - the other teacher - the parent - the student - have not thought that you would want to know about this - and should know.

The issue is ethics on the other teacher's part.

I would feel "ill" from discovering this as well as not understanding the secrecy of it.

Do you know the other teacher? Are you both MTNA members? Does it happen in her private studio, or through MTNA recitals? This could be grounds upon which acomplaint to the "ethics" chair could be made.

I'm speechless too. It makes me feel crazy imagining how ever do you work this out without fracturing your own integrity. The angry words inside block my ability to speak.

I, the advocate of a quiet mind, am sizzling at each person involved in this and consider it to be a gross problem. Obviously, they haven't seen it from your perspective. I would be offended and I would suppose that it might not be able to be worked out since it's some kind of a relationship to the other studio.

How did you find out about it?

What are you going to do?

In my book, this is pretty outrageous!

And, it would make me wonder what else I don't know.

Breathe deeply! Restore yourself to calm.

(Betty take your own advice!)

With best wishes, Diane!

Betty

My reaction as student did not go beyond Is it possible at all that this teacher thinks she has a guest student who has no teacher and is teaching himself? Is it possible at all that he may also be taking (occasional) lessons from this teacher? How utterly strange! If one "guest student" is there, might there be other students of other teachers appearing as unannounced guests too?

Diane, honestly my reaction is, if he didnt tell you that he was performing for 3 years what else dont ya know? he could very well be taking lessons from the other teacher also, so you cant jump to conclusions of the other teachers ethics. the kid obviously loves piano which is a plus, the parents probably thought nothing of it. the other teacher might not even know about you, if you didnt know about him/her. so i wouldnt jump to conclusions about the other teachers ethics until you actually talk to the other teacher and find out whats really going on if it is bothering you. just my 2 cents:)

It is certainly a compliment to you...and to your student. However, depending on how the other concert is billed, it is potentially misrepresenting the other teacher's abilities and roster. Not your problem, perhaps not in your student's best interests to halt it, and almost certainly not worth a confrontation with him, his family--all willing participants.

Why not stop by one of these concerts someday and compliment him?

Wow! I'm shocked, too.

Is this other teacher "claiming" your student as his/her own? And the parents let this happen? That is so unprofessional.

Some suggestions--

1) Dump the student. Now.

2) Complain to your chapter of MTNA or whatever professional association you've joined. Over here in California we can file a written grievance to the State Board of Directors. If found to be unethical, a teacher can be dismissed for violating the Code of Ethics. No more state-sponsored programs for that unethical teacher.

3) Call up this other teacher and interrogate over the phone.

4) If nothing else provides you with a clear answer, sue. (Just kidding) But seriously, you should publicize the incident and let other people know what has happened.

I've encountered some "cloudy" people in our line of business. Whatever you do, stick with the bylaws and rules of your professional association. Do not associate yourself with people who engage in unethical behavior.

:p

Great idea! There's this music school that stole two of my students. I'll just show up at their next recital and make everybody feel uncomfortable. :b:

My thoughts exactly. I'm surprised so many here are immediately taking offense and jumping to conclusions about this.

Maybe the student just wants to be in a recital with their friends. Their family could know the other teacher and want to socialize together. The student may want more performing opportunities. Maybe the teacher has already informed the other students/families that someone they do not teach will be preforming. There are many possibilities that could explain this without negative thinking and most would be compliments.

Unless the student signed a contract stating that they would not perform without their teacher's permission and that they could not seek out a second teacher whether for lessons, feedback, etc, I'm not sure what the problem is.

:t: :t: :t: Whoa!

First, I would contact the parents and student and confirm whether any instruction had been received by this teacher, and if the teacher knew the student was studying with you.

I would also pointedly ask if, somewhere in the recital, the student's teacher was acknowledged.

Then, as AZN has stated, I would cancel lessons immediately, explaining to the parent that this behavior is unethical, and hurts both teachers, not just you. It unfairly represents the other teacher as well, good or bad (we hope good!).

I would do all this first, before contacting the other teacher, because I have known students and parents who have been extremely deceptive about this and both teachers were totally ignorant about what was going on.

John

Is it possible at all that the student doesn't know the ins and outs of these kinds of ethics. I would not think of doing such a thing, but I know that over the last few years I have discovered a few things that were expected or taken for granted that I would not have thought of. I would explore this in a neutral way at first with the student - parents if they're involved and depending on the student's age, to find out what the thoughts were. What was his thinking and why?

The teacher is another matter. Wouldn't this teacher wonder where the student's skills were coming from? But again the prudent thing would be to find out exactly what has been going on.

Good point! I need to add that to my September contract update. Thanks for filling that loophole.

However, the Code of Ethics in our state's association states that a teacher cannot claim another teacher's student as his own, not even for the first six months since the transfer. Some cloudy teachers don't bother following this rule.

I second John's advice about talking to the parents first. You need to get your facts straight. Kids sometimes don't really have it all straight in their minds. First talk with the parents (face to face if at all possible) and simply say that this was brought to your attention, and that you need to know if the child is taking lessons from this other teacher, and why they are performing in this other recital. Then I would call the teacher in question and ask them the same thing. Do all this without any accusations or anger, as you really don't know if there's any wrong doing at this point.

Then when you have a better idea of what's going on, you can decide if you should stop teaching this student and raise ethical questions about the teacher.

Thanks everyone!

How I found out about this was he brought me a DVD that I could keep of him playing the piano at this teacher's recital. Pieces, I taught him. When I asked him where this was, cause he was dressed up and everything, he said a family friend (the other piano teacher) of theirs always invites him to play at his recitals.

This other piano teacher was his piano teacher before me, but he transerred to me 4 years ago. I know for sure that this other teacher is not teaching him now. So maybe because he is a family friend, I just keep quiet and let this go.

My student gets lots of positive feed back from performing there, which I'm grateful for, but I still just don't think this is right!

It sounds like he wasn't being devious since he gave you the CD and even expected you to be please. Could this first piano teacher be more the casual sort, the kind that knows how to play piano and so teaches a couple of kids but isn't into the formality of the situation? If it is known that he is no longer her student, is it possible that people might ask him "Who is your piano teacher?" If your teaching is superior, then his playing would stand out by contrast, and that is an advertisement in your favour (and not in the other teacher's favour). Those are a lot of ifs.

Courtesy is still courtesy to the teacher.

Let the teacher know your plans to perform elsewhere.

The other teacher should have called and express their interest in welcoming him to perform there as a "graduate" of his studio, and now a student of __________Diane...

They might even have invited you.

I am still strong on ethics.

However, I always hope not to embarrass anyone on problems like this. It is hard to remain cool when you hear or see something and it's an absolute surprize to you.

Communicate with them.

My fit lasted only until the next subject came to my attention, and life has gone on. However, I did find it upsetting that this would happen to any piano teacher.

Betty

I would definitely NOT drop the student--the student did nothing wrong (in fact, the student may have thought that you would approve of him finding outside performance opportunities!).

What I think I would do is send an e-mail to the other teacher if possible (I'd prefer an e-mail to a phone call so that there would be a record of exactly what was said). I would tell him or her that while I appreciated my student's having had the opportunity to participate in another teacher's recitals, I believe that it's in everyone's best interests if an acknowledgement is made clarifying that you are his regular teacher. And I would mention that should one of his/her students wish to perform on your recital, his/her name will be listed as the teacher.

Since the other teacher is a family friend, I wouldn't necessarily assume that the students' parents knew there was something "fishy" going on. But after e-mailing the teacher and explaining your position, there should be no doubt in that teacher's mind what your expectations are--and if your student performs again without an acknowledgement that YOU are his teacher, I would consider a direct confrontation with the other teacher (possibly with another teacher for reinforcement or "backup"!).

I'd be a bit careful about putting that type of verbiage in the contract. I'd be very disinclined to go with a teacher whose contract had that type of language. Seems to me that this oversteps boundaries (e.g. I can't even get someone elses opinion, hmmm).

I do understand the issue here first hand. My wife and my kids have two different teachers, my kids were invited to play at my wifes first recital (her teacher is new to the area and her studio is still small). We did indeed let our kids teacher know that we were doing this (not to get permission, but as a courtesy), even though the two teachers actually know each other personally. I'm not sure exactly how we'd react if the kids teacher had some type of problem with this.

I completely understand the courtesy and respect issue involved here (from a parents/students POV, I won't speak to the teachers ethics POV), but putting official language in a contract takes it to a completely different level. Having language that _asks_ that the teacher be told of these events makes complete sense to me, but dictating what the student can/can't do outside the lesson times (other than requiring some minimum amount of practice time) seems to me outside the scope of such an agreement.

Of course this is just my opinion and there are probably plenty of teachers that can and do have clauses like that in their contracts and have nice full studios so YMMV.

The only one in error was the original teacher, who probably is the bumbling more casual sort for whom these recitals are happy occasions and nothing more. Stupidity and lack of awareness does abound in the strangest corners. If no deviousness was intended, warm emotions of friendship the motivator then nothing was "done" to anyone. Just a breach of etiquette.

The child's gesture of handing the DVD to his teacher speaks of inclusion, not exclusion. I would see his attitude as being something like pride of representing his teacher in this other place. He might be proud of his present teacher and what she has given him, which he wants to show off. Misguided, sure. Perhaps you could invite the other teacher to one of your recitals. Get to know her.

Ditto here. In my mind, the larger "ethical violation" is a teacher who attempts to control the student's playing to the extent of making the student ask permission before playing in public anywhere.

I'm still gobsmacked over that concept.

I personally don't see anything wrong in a student playing in another recital. Yes, it would be nice for the student and other teacher to acknowledge the hard work and good training provided by the real teacher. But if you believe that playing in recitals is a good experience for a piano student (you do, don't you?) then surely it's a good thing for a student to get as much experience playing publicly as possible?

I agree that the recital handout should list the student's teacher -- so that the wrong assumptions aren't made.

But, it seems VERY wrong to not allow a student to perform without their teacher's permission. Does that mean the student can't play the piano for a school play? Or perform at a hospital or nursing home?

Not being able to contact another teacher for lessons is also wrong. What if a family friend is a teacher and offers a lesson while visiting? Does this mean the student can't take master classes elsewhere?

Personally, I wouldn't sign a contract with clauses like that. I'd find another teacher.

Mary