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Wow! I should try that at the next recital. Are you sure it was a recital? I mean, that sounds like a master class, in which the teacher is instructing the student in front of other students.

"Are you sure it was a recital?"

Well if a person is able to hit her pupils with a ruler I would not be entirely surprised.... I thought I grew up, discipline-wise, in a post-fascist environment, but am thinking of rapidly changing my mind..

Dramaqueen, a question on the side for you: what does it mean "currently working on grade 9 Royal Conservatory"? Does it mean that you can pick up, as a "privatier" so to speak, only a certain discipline (say: piano performance) and being examined on that; or does it mean that you have to cope with all the rest (say: music theory, solfege, composition perhaps, whatever else?) if you want to have your "piano proficinecy" graded in terms of conservatory grades?

Thanks and sorry for the digression.

Another tought.

I was thinking of all the teachers I had.

Funny thing: the best were those who almost never paid me a compliment, and I assure you at school and university I was, I have to say, brilliant by any standard.

It seems some people "sense" that a good teaching work goes together with a kind of reservedness, which lets the pupil work harder to get the desired approval of the teacher. Then, even a little word, once in a while, makes one happier than all the "oh-what-a-wonderful-human-being-you-are-even-if-you-did-all- wrong" talking one hears more often nowadays.

The harder people were, at the end, those who cared most. Only, they had a way to care that was not so easily understandable to my young and impressionable mind.

It's fair to say that time did them, in the end, justice.

Oh yes, definitely a recital. I was 9 when that happened by the way. It was one of the most humiliating and degrading experiences I have ever had. I don't remember her doing this to anyone else though my sister says that she did, but only to a couple of kids. My parents told me she did this because they felt that she was pushing because I was 'talented'. I can't say that I bought that reasoning though I have heard of this approach. The writing teacher pushing the child that writes well to help them improve and so on. I just don't believe that it is necessary to get a good education in any subject.

Innominato, to answer you question. When I started back in piano in my late 20's I had regressed quite a bit. I had injured my shoulder and had a multitude of other issues.When I quit at age 15 I was playing Grade 10 music and was studying for the exam. I am still studying RCM (Royal Conservatory of music) but had to back track to grade 7. I am now in grade 9 and am preparing for my exam next year. I was suppose to do it this year but once again health issues got in the way. I am also doing my beginner pedagogy degree next year which qualifies me to teach beginner to RCM grade 2. I have taken my theory rudiments (though years ago) and did a refresher course this year. Once my pedagogy is finished I will move on to history and harmony and all the others including my next level of pedagogy. My goal is to get my ARCT in teaching. This is an eventual goal because I have many years where I am unable to do exams because of health.

Hope that answers your question.

Wow.
I hope you can use some of the advice everyone has given you. You have a ton of support. What a wealth of experiances there are for you to learn from. My only advice is try not to let anyone take away your love for music.

Hi dramaqueen and congratulations for your re-gained proficiency (well, ruler or no ruler the dame must have been good .. ).

No, you didn't answer my question

I pose it again in a different way:
The RCM exam that you are preparing (not the ARCT exam) has as only content and object *how you play the piano* or are there other things that you must do to pass the exam (example: sight reading; knowledge of music theory etc)?

Or again: if I would like to prepare one day an exam like that, would the simple playing pieces be all there is to it or would I have to be confronted with things I have no interest in, like sight reading?

Thanks again!

Ah, sorry, now I understand.
Yes, there is more than knowing my pieces when I do an exam.
Here is a list of the some of the things technique wise that I need to know for my grade 9 exam

All major and minor scales
Formula patterns
Octave scales in certain keys
Chromatic scales in every key
Octave chromatic scales in certain keys
4 note chords solid and broken in all major and minor keys
Arpeggios in all major and minor keys, root, first and second inversion. (4 octaves)
All of these things of metronome markings with varying speeds.

I also need to sight read a passage
Do playbacks
Clap a pattern
Name intervals, and chords which the adjudicator plays but I don't see
Also name cadences of either perfect, plagal or imperfect. Again adjudicator playing without me watching.

I can't remember if there is more but I don't have my syllabus in front of me right now. BTW, you can pick up a RCM syllabus and have all this info. if you are thinking of preparing for an exam

HTH

Dramaqueen, when I did my conservatory exams they wanted the name of my teacher, and he had a registration number. - I wonder whether a teacher is required. By the way, it is lovely to read your story about your return. My very best wishes.

So I quit. I could not get myself to start the twice a week ordeal. It fels kind of lousy.. But then I have been playing 4 hours or more a day since school pretty much wrapped up. and it feels free and wonderful.I have been listening to Askhenazy's WTC and loving it (no humming!!GG was my only other CD of WTC before this one).. so I am learning a couple of pieces from book 2 that I had not done before with my teacher. I see that I do need the guidance..
My dad has been out of town. he is furious with me..It won't be pretty when he is back, but I hope things will cool off soon. My friend who also quit the same teacher a few years ago (by like lesson 3) gave me the names of new teachers.
I will have to see how it goes.. or not..
Thanks for all the good advice. I know nobody said that I should just quit but .. anyway, I hope the anti-middle school student squad will take it easy on me!).

Hi Elise (I'm a student) I read two things. You are now playing the piano 4 hours a day. This is a good thing for you to do without or with lessons. By trying to do pieces on your own for the first time you are seeing where your teacher's guidance benefited you, which you could not see while you were in the middle of lessons.

I cannot not advise. It is good that you are playing the piano, trying pieces, exploring and understanding your experience.

I think you took a big step in personal integrity. You put a stop to continuing in what was, in your opinion, a bad situation.

You will learn how to open doors and close doors softly to allow reentry.

And you will know when to take an important stand and when something can remain pending.

What else is on the agenda to make things possible for you again?

Good luck!

Betty

Plenty more fish in the sea Elise!

first face paternal music, then hope for a new teacher.
Thanks Betty

What I see, Elise, is that up to now you have never been able to truly choose or evaluate. Each thing has been forced on you. Now you are playing the piano because you want to, and you can see what you can do, and where your teacher helped you, with your own eyes without "all that". It's your own experience.

How would it have been if you had *chosen* to play music, and *chosen* to learn from this teacher? First you must experience music and your musical path as your own. That is what you are doing now.

The expression "paternal music" really jumped out at me.

Regardless of what teacher you study with, when it is a "self-music" and not "paternal music" and a thing you choose the experience will be different in a positive way.

The first thing you did was to play the piano for four hours, where before you had barely managed one. The second thing was to see the benefits of a teacher, meaning that you were not satisfied playing with what you can do now. Real choosing comes from that. Your music is yours. A teacher helps you make it better. Keep playing.

I am an adult student, and parent of someone who chose to study an instrument when close to 13, close to your age. He is now a young adult. The very fact that he was in the studio by choice because he wanted to learn, and then practiced because he had chosen this, made a huge difference.

Your leaving behind "paternal music" and making it yours and by choice seems hugely important. Very best wishes.

KS

Elise,

By paternal music, you mean Dad's wrath or frustration or facing up to going against his advice and opinion of the situation?

What about Mom?

And your older brother who studied/studies with this man?

I think the bottom line for you is that you don't want someone in your life in any capacity, not just as a piano teacher, who you have such an consistently adverse reaction to because of the way he thinks and treats you.

Does he possibly treat all young women like this?

You need to find a piano teacher you really like whom you can't cooperate fully with because music study with this person gives you progress and enjoyment and restores and refreshes the young musician that you are.

Betty

I have guessed "paternal music" to mean that music has always been through father's eyes and father's wishes. Now there will be music through Elise's eyes and Elise's wishes. She will feel her own music. She will choose music because it is her own love of music.

Elise, did I understand this correctly?

"Fur Elise"

All the reasoned solutions by benign-minded bystanders is just so much well meant spinsterish hot air ... the message bandied about when I was your age was ... "GROW UP!!".

To quote the Gershwins
"One of these mornin’s ... You goin’ to rise up singin’,
Then yo’ll spread your wings ... an’ you’ll take the sky.

But till that mornin’ ... there’s a nothin’ can harm you ...
With (tyranical) Daddy an’ (non-est) Mammy standin’ by".

Betty


Elise,

By paternal music, you mean Dad's wrath or frustration or facing up to going against his advice and opinion of the situation?


Both of the above


What about Mom?


goes back and forth. dad calls the shots on this one, I am pretty sure


And your older brother who studied/studies with this man?

my brother is a lot older than me, (28y). He studied with another teacher but takes master classes with my (ex-) teacher and they are major buddies.


I think the bottom line for you is that you don't want someone in your life in any capacity, not just as a piano teacher, who you have such an consistently adverse reaction to because of the way he thinks and treats you.

true


Does he possibly treat all young women like this?

no idea. I stayed around once for the lesson following me. new kid my age, came highly recommended.. (Radu Lupu wanna be, zenn and all..). I did not think he played that fantastically.. if I trilled the way he did, I would be out the window ).. yet the teacher was sort of normal. no major thunderstorms.. but he is unpredictable. so I don't know .

in brief, I was never coerced into piano even though I was home taught at an early age. i love it and it will always be a very important part of my life. I just don't want to be taught like this, whatever the consequences may be. Life for me is now, not in 10 or whatever years.

I think paternal music was meant to be the inevitable storm when the father comes home, please mind this little "coup d' etat" seem to have been staged when the prime minister was on state visit..

But I notice this: if you are ready to step up from one hour to four, why not give the teacher (that is, I must say: yourself) a last chance and see how it goes from there?

From what one has read up to now, apart from shorts and chewing gums the main problems resided with the art the music is played, or if you wish with the level of commitment. Once this commitment is seriously stepped up, this should automatically solve most of the problems.
Not all, of course, but life never does.

Useless to say that if your father now gives in on your desire to have a new teacher after you have unilaterally forced his hand in his absence, this will set a very dangerous precedent of the "fait accompli" as an excellent way of achieving one's aim. I am personally very curious to know how it goes, please keep us posted....

why the fixation on my shortcomings and not this teacher's methods? Is taht not important?