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advice on upright purchase here in NJ (Petrof, Perzina, Bohemia?) #93014
02/12/08 08:33 PM
02/12/08 08:33 PM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 11
Green Township, NJ USA
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Kiyonami Offline OP
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Kiyonami  Offline OP
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Green Township, NJ USA
We are on a quest to purchase our first piano and it will be an upright.

I had the opportunity to listen to approximately 30 pianos over the past couple of weeks in showrooms. I came to the quick conclusion that I am only interested in the European sound. Maybe it is because I listen to mostly classical piano on a high end audio system where 90% of the performances use either a Steinway or a piano of Bavarian origins in the recordings?

I like what I heard from the Perzina and the Petrof brands. But through research I am going to listen to a Bohemia model this coming weekend.

I have my eye on a used 1999 Petrof P118 that appears to be in at least perfect cosmetic shape. The dealer gave me a serial number, but as a consumer, how can that help me? Is there a way to track down if there was a problem w/ that specific piano or that 'production run' in that serial number range?

At the end of the day, no matter how many times I look at Larry Fine's book, I am still a novice at purchasing. I've been reading the postings on this site late in to the night and I can say w/o doubt, the writers are very opinionated n what they like or don't like. I guess that is why there are so many "names" in piano choices out there. It's those opinions on pianos I seek and any advice on dealers.
Thanks!!

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Re: advice on upright purchase here in NJ (Petrof, Perzina, Bohemia?) #93015
02/13/08 11:29 AM
02/13/08 11:29 AM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,885
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Rank Piano Amateur Offline
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I regularly play on a Schimmel upright that is a fabulous piano. The owner bought it used from Cunningham Piano Company in Philadelphia--have you spoken with them yet? The Schimmel upright gives a wonderful European sound and has incredible dynamic range as well.

Re: advice on upright purchase here in NJ (Petrof, Perzina, Bohemia?) #93016
02/13/08 12:14 PM
02/13/08 12:14 PM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 11
Green Township, NJ USA
K
Kiyonami Offline OP
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Kiyonami  Offline OP
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Green Township, NJ USA
I know Schimmel's reputation and would love to afford one. I will check w/ Cunningham to see if they have any used versions in stock.

Re: advice on upright purchase here in NJ (Petrof, Perzina, Bohemia?) #93017
02/13/08 12:29 PM
02/13/08 12:29 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,362
Surrey, B.C.
Norbert Offline
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Quote
piano of Bavarian origins in the recordings?
You're making me hungry.... wink

Only *Seiler* and *Feurich* left in that state.

My hunch for you would be the Perzina. Go check it out again, they're highly rated pianos by their owners.

Norbert


www.heritagepianos.com
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Re: advice on upright purchase here in NJ (Petrof, Perzina, Bohemia?) #93018
02/13/08 02:50 PM
02/13/08 02:50 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,439
torrance, CA
turandot Offline
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torrance, CA
Quote
I like what I heard from the Perzina and the Petrof brands. But through research I am going to listen to a Bohemia model this coming weekend.

I have my eye on a used 1999 Petrof P118 that appears to be in at least perfect cosmetic shape. The dealer gave me a serial number, but as a consumer, how can that help me? Is there a way to track down if there was a problem w/ that specific piano or that 'production run' in that serial number range?
Kiyonami,
I once paid a tech to inspect a Petrof 118 (vintage 1999 - 2000) for me. For $130, I found out what I already knew...the action was not weighted correctly and would require an expensive correction. There were also a host of other problems. Now, similar to the one you're referring to, it was cosmetically perfect. It had the bookmatched mahogany veneer with decorative wood applique....stunning really.

Of course I've played other Petrof verticals where the action was smooth and very satisfying, but IMO with both the Petrof and Perzina hand-weighted actions, you should be very careful that the action is the way you want it before you buy it.

In terms of what to look out for in a particular Petrof, in general the newer the better; the older the more cautious you should be.

I've never played a Bohemia with a less than satisfactory action.

To me the tone of Perzina, Petrof, and Bohemia are all quite different. That's up to you.


Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier
Re: advice on upright purchase here in NJ (Petrof, Perzina, Bohemia?) #93019
02/13/08 03:52 PM
02/13/08 03:52 PM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 262
California
M
M&B Offline
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Posts: 262
California
Kiyonami,

Petrof are wonderful instruments and not easy to find in the used market. This is my advise as a piano dealer: A consumer who puts too much energy such as yourself deserves a reward to his/her efforts. But usually scrapping some much around makes it hard for you to make a decision and at times stressful.
Reward yourself by buying a new Piano if you realized you liked Petrof, go to a Petrof dealer find your cup of tea, report back to us to check the price and be happy.
In regard to the Perzina; I have to tell you that pianos change and deteriorate over time. Petrof has proven in the market, I think most Chinese pianos still in the process.


Piano Dealer
Representing Kawai, Mason&Hamlin.
Re: advice on upright purchase here in NJ (Petrof, Perzina, Bohemia?) #93020
02/13/08 04:16 PM
02/13/08 04:16 PM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 11
Green Township, NJ USA
K
Kiyonami Offline OP
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Kiyonami  Offline OP
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 11
Green Township, NJ USA
Thanks to Turandot and M&B. Yes, the more information, so much of it that is counter to other information I pull in, is becoming somewhat stressful. I guess the stress is caused because in the back of my mind I know if I make a mistake on this purchase it will not be easily or inexpensively remedied.
I told my wife last night, (very sarcastically), that I wish we had 80k to spend on a piano. Then we would be guaranteed a fine instrument. (my wife looked scared for a moment).
I will definitely check out the Bohemia line and hear a new Petrof. Cunningham suggested I check out the Charles Walter too. If I can find a used Schimmel, that would be of great interest too.

Re: advice on upright purchase here in NJ (Petrof, Perzina, Bohemia?) #93021
02/13/08 04:31 PM
02/13/08 04:31 PM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 262
California
M
M&B Offline
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California
Kiyonami,

Don't get more confuse. wink C. Walter pianos don't have a European sound and originally you said that is what you want.
I sell both brands stick to the Petrof.
Making your life easier is a "life skill" wink


Piano Dealer
Representing Kawai, Mason&Hamlin.
Re: advice on upright purchase here in NJ (Petrof, Perzina, Bohemia?) #93022
02/13/08 09:07 PM
02/13/08 09:07 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 11,880
Georgia, USA
Rickster Offline
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Georgia, USA
Hi Kiyonami,

I have a Petrof P-118 studio piano that I like very much. The clarity of the tone is exceptional; the touch is medium/light and it is a wonderful instrument. The upper treble notes are so clear that you can actually distinguish the sound of the C8 note (last hi note) instead if just hearing a "plink" sound.

Although there are many nice pianos out there, the Petrof is a gem.

Best regards and good luck with your search.

Rickster


Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel
Re: advice on upright purchase here in NJ (Petrof, Perzina, Bohemia?) #93023
02/13/08 09:26 PM
02/13/08 09:26 PM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 11
Green Township, NJ USA
K
Kiyonami Offline OP
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Kiyonami  Offline OP
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Posts: 11
Green Township, NJ USA
I have no concern about the quality of a Petrof. My true concern is just w/ the used 118 I am considering due to my novice experience purchasing a piano. At least w/ a new piano I know what to expect in terms of e.g. tuning as it acclimates and breaks-in so to speak.
Also if I decide to purchase a new Petrof I can request the Renner action that is so highly regarded.

Re: advice on upright purchase here in NJ (Petrof, Perzina, Bohemia?) #93024
02/13/08 09:41 PM
02/13/08 09:41 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 11,880
Georgia, USA
Rickster Offline
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There are lots of choices out there and even more advice on the PW forums laugh .

The main thing is to enjoy and appreciate the piano you get.

Best regards,

Rickster


Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel
Re: advice on upright purchase here in NJ (Petrof, Perzina, Bohemia?) #93025
02/13/08 09:56 PM
02/13/08 09:56 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,439
torrance, CA
turandot Offline
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turandot  Offline
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torrance, CA
Kiyonami,

If you think you would like to buy that one particular used Petrof, spend the money to have a tech look it over. It should cost you around $100, perhaps a little more. The tech will be working for you and will give you a detailed report. After that you can either take it(the piano) or leave it.
You won't have all the uncertainty in your mind.


Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier
Re: advice on upright purchase here in NJ (Petrof, Perzina, Bohemia?) #93026
02/14/08 01:10 AM
02/14/08 01:10 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 668
Louisiana, USA
swampwiz Offline
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Louisiana, USA
I can recommend the Petrof. The action is nice and the tone is truly amazing for a piano that is not one of the expensive brands. However, be warned that currently there is some legal limbo concerning the Petrof, with the manufacturer making claims that some Petrof named pianos in the USA could be counterfeit! (This is almost certainly not true, but just be a bit careful.) Of course, this legal limbo has made the Petrofs a great buy at this time.

OTOH, I can also recommend the Charles Walter. It is a very solidly built American piano.

BTW, I have owned both brands.

Re: advice on upright purchase here in NJ (Petrof, Perzina, Bohemia?) #93027
02/14/08 08:51 AM
02/14/08 08:51 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 11,880
Georgia, USA
Rickster Offline
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Quote
Swampwiz: However, be warned that currently there is some legal limbo concerning the Petrof, with the manufacturer making claims that some Petrof named pianos in the USA could be counterfeit! (This is almost certainly not true, but just be a bit careful.) Of course, this legal limbo has made the Petrofs a great buy at this time.
It seems to me that a Petrof would be difficult to counterfeit. If it has the individual string agraffees for each note and the distinctive Petrof emblem made into the plate as well as other distinctive markings, how could it be a counterfeit? Of course, anything is possible I guess. After all, my Tokai G-180 is a counterfeit Steinway “O”. laugh

Best regards,

Rickster


Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel
Re: advice on upright purchase here in NJ (Petrof, Perzina, Bohemia?) #93028
02/14/08 11:27 AM
02/14/08 11:27 AM
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Dave Stahl Offline
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I'll throw in a good word for Bohemia. Nice action, full tone, good value. I work on lots of them, and have seen a steady improvement since I saw my first Rieger-Kloss (the old name) around 11 years ago. Worth a look, for sure.


Promote Harmony in the Universe...Tune your piano!

Dave Stahl, RPT
Piano Technician's Guild
San Jose, CA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAniw3m7L2I
http://dstahlpiano.net
Re: advice on upright purchase here in NJ (Petrof, Perzina, Bohemia?) #93029
02/15/08 11:29 PM
02/15/08 11:29 PM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 11
Green Township, NJ USA
K
Kiyonami Offline OP
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Kiyonami  Offline OP
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Green Township, NJ USA
Tonight I went to see & hear all sizes of the Bohemia uprights at a dealer in Elizabeth, NJ. I came away very impressed by their build and especially their sound. Can I say they had a lot of emotion or is that color? Loved the 125 and liked the 123. Higher than I wanted to spend (by about 1.5k) but will make a decision next week. My guess is the Bohemia will keep up its value better over the long run too.
Went back to see the used Petrof on the way home but it had a red 'sold' ticket on it. I had arranged for a tuner to check it out next week, but I wasn't ready to pull the trigger this week. It was a risk I was willing to take.
Went back to hear the Perzina's, didn't care for them as much as the Bohemia, but they are less and assembled in China, but with decent construction and parts.
Heading out to another shop this weekend that has the Chinese made May Berlin by Schimmel (though sent back to Germany for final inspections/prep before shipping to distributors).

Will keep you posted...

Re: advice on upright purchase here in NJ (Petrof, Perzina, Bohemia?) #93030
02/16/08 12:02 AM
02/16/08 12:02 AM
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Posts: 788
Massapequa, NY
hotkeys Offline
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Welcome to the forums Kiyonami.

I heard good reviews about all three pianos. What I do is make a list of what criteria is important in the piano you want to own, and how it responds to staccato, quick touch, and sustain of all notes. Playing a mix of classical, popular and scales can give hints. And go by the tone of each instrument. Best wishes!

- Mark


...The ultimate joy in music is the joy of playing the piano...
Re: advice on upright purchase here in NJ (Petrof, Perzina, Bohemia?) #93031
02/16/08 12:17 AM
02/16/08 12:17 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,439
torrance, CA
turandot Offline
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Quote
Can I say they had a lot of emotion or is that color? Loved the 125 and liked the 123.
It is tough to describe, but I know what you mean. The Bohemia sound is robust, that's for sure. My favorite of all the Bohemia verticals is the 125P. The Concert 132 is just too rich for my taste in sound although I certainly wouldn't turn one down.

Don't sweat the Petrof. For whatever reason, there are a lot of used Petrofs on the market right now, and if you prefer the Petrof sound (quite different from Bohemia wouldn't you say), I think you'll find another. There are some pretty substantial discounts on new Petrofs too depending on where you find them.

I think your comments about the Perzina are very fair.

Be sure to update again.


Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier
Re: advice on upright purchase here in NJ (Petrof, Perzina, Bohemia?) #93032
02/17/08 07:16 PM
02/17/08 07:16 PM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 11
Green Township, NJ USA
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Kiyonami Offline OP
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Green Township, NJ USA
OK, definitely leaning towards the Bohemia line. Are there any Owners or Tuners of the Bohemia 123 or 125 uprights out there who would like to express their opinion and/or experience w/ either of these models? Thanks...

Re: advice on upright purchase here in NJ (Petrof, Perzina, Bohemia?) #93033
02/17/08 07:50 PM
02/17/08 07:50 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,178
Minnesota
Marty in Minnesota Offline

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Kiyonami,

You are using your hands and ears, and most importantly your heart, in your selection of your piano. It is the only way to choose an instrument that is the perfect fit for you.

The Bohemia keeps calling you and it is a fine instrument. I am sure you will be delighted with your selection and also in the years to come.

Have fun and keep us posted.


Marty in Minnesota
Re: advice on upright purchase here in NJ (Petrof, Perzina, Bohemia?) #93034
02/17/08 09:47 PM
02/17/08 09:47 PM
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Posts: 1,645
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Dave Stahl Offline
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Kiyonami,

I tune lots of both models. I like them quite a bit. They are consistently good, but each one is different. Definitely buy the one you like rather than one that you've never heard before, i.e. out of the crate.

The tuning usually gets stable after a couple of years. Having it serviced 4-5 times in the first couple of years will help stability along immensely.

As I stated before, there has been a marked improvement in the overall quality of the entire line. I don't know if that has anything to do with Bechstein's ownership. I've met the former owner/current general manager (?), Ms. Marecela Schramlova, and she seems genuinely interested in making a quality piano rather than just a quick profit.

I believe the 125 has a Renner action while the 123 has the Bohemia action. Both actions function well. And I think both are equipped with Renner hammers with red underfelt. They can get kind of bright, but are workable with voicing.

Hope this helps! Enjoy!


Promote Harmony in the Universe...Tune your piano!

Dave Stahl, RPT
Piano Technician's Guild
San Jose, CA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAniw3m7L2I
http://dstahlpiano.net
Re: advice on upright purchase here in NJ (Petrof, Perzina, Bohemia?) #93035
03/12/08 12:24 PM
03/12/08 12:24 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 674
Chicago
Always Wanted to Play Piano Offline
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Chicago
I wonder how this turned out?


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Re: advice on upright purchase here in NJ (Petrof, Perzina, Bohemia?) #93036
03/12/08 05:51 PM
03/12/08 05:51 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 128
Delaware
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Delaware
Hi Kiyonami,

You asked Bohemia owners to respond, so here I am. Last winter I was piano shopping and I played some of the instruments that you are or have considered. I tried the Petrof and thought they were very nice. I tried the Schimmels and they were very, very nice but out of my price range. I also tried Charles Walter and they were ok. However, many people on the forum love this piano. I eventually found and tried the Bohemia and I fell in love with it.

Good Luck, John


Bohemia Concerto 132
Re: advice on upright purchase here in NJ (Petrof, Perzina, Bohemia?) #93037
04/12/08 10:03 PM
04/12/08 10:03 PM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 11
Green Township, NJ USA
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Kiyonami Offline OP
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Green Township, NJ USA
I just wanted to thank everyone for their time. We [finally] purchased a new Bohemia model 123 upright today.
I was in the midst of wrapping this process up in late February, but then came down with the flu. I was knocked down for almost 2 weeks. First time I had the flu in 20 years! I then changed jobs in May and decided I would wait a month and make the purchase. It worked out well and I was able to bundle this purchase together as an award for my daughter's continuous stellar report cards.

Thanks again and can't wait to report back after a couple of months with it in our home.

Re: advice on upright purchase here in NJ (Petrof, Perzina, Bohemia?) #93038
05/18/08 07:58 PM
05/18/08 07:58 PM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 11
Green Township, NJ USA
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Kiyonami Offline OP
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Green Township, NJ USA
Update on Bohemia: Today I decided to upgrade our Bohemia 123 purchase to the 125 Professional. Altenburg Piano House had a 125 on the floor when we were auditioning the Bohemias in April. The difference in sound to my ears has been nagging me since that day. At the time I didn't want to spend that much more for it, but I keep rolling it over and over in my head that the 125's sound just offered so much more. So today I gave in and called over to Altenburg and arranged the delivery of the 125 to our house this coming Friday. I know I will have no regrets w/ the 125 and now won't have to look at the 123 (still a fine sounding piano! with any regrets.

Re: advice on upright purchase here in NJ (Petrof, Perzina, Bohemia?) #93039
05/18/08 09:58 PM
05/18/08 09:58 PM
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Posts: 44
New York, New York
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New York, New York
Congrats on your new piano! I would have done the same and gotten the piano that truly sings to me. What a relief that the process is over and now your family will be able to enjoy the fine instrument. smile

Re: advice on upright purchase here in NJ (Petrof, Perzina, Bohemia?) #93040
05/19/08 07:07 PM
05/19/08 07:07 PM
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Posts: 11
Green Township, NJ USA
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Green Township, NJ USA
I [they] couldn't agree more!


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