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Oh, speaking of abusive parents, I had one coming to lessons in tears, but left with smiles. I need to find out what's happening here. From what little she verbalized, I believe there is a sibling rivalry with a younger sibling occurring, and as an 7 year old, she's being asked to be more mature than she can be. I hope it's not an aversion to lessons, as she is hugely talented.

However, OT, at age 4, I was playing records (those are round things that pre-date CDs) and my favorites were The Pirates of Penzance, Mikado, Peter and the Wolf, Mozart symphonies and the Beethoven Emperor concerto. Oh yes, Humperdinck. No accounting for tastes, but some of us just cannot get enough music, and others of us can take it or leave it.

It's always a huge warning signal to me when something like that happens and the parents are clueless about why it is happening. Or when I don't get feedback.

We can only control what happens in the lessons.

One of my best young students, who has never been anything else but all smiles, did not want to continue in September after a bit more than a month off. I got him "hooked again", I think, because he likes me and the way we work together, but what discouraged is that his family was just about ready to immediately cave into what was really a whim.

Music appreciation for a young musician can also include all those (5 Finger Position) Disney songs.

Most kids have seen the movies or DVD's of Disney and enjoy singing along.

The 5 Finger Positions are shown in a graphic example making it easy for kids to follow. Because the songs are often very rhythmic, the student must be a good counter and have a sense of steady beat. There are no phrasings to follow the lyric in most of the Disney's, so we put them in together as we sing, we find a sentence completed, or places to take a breath, so we mark them in. The exchange of LH to RH and back is a good exercise in thinking.

So, the little girl who left here, age 7, who will be age 8 this month, went out the door very happy with her assignment of which 4 were Disney: "Whistle While You Work", "Bare Necessities", "The Most Wonderful Thing About Tiggers", and "When you Wish Upon a Star".

This young girl is also singing along as she plays her songs, and I was delighted to hear a really naturally talented young singer!

We never know unless we give the kids opportunities.

And, songs like this lift the spirit for kids who are motivated from within - playing something they know that makes them happy.

Then, we will add the accompaniment parts in a week or two, and we will sound like a duo of "entertainers". You should see the beams that brings.

Have you ever noticed that in musical events and recitals, it's the little kids that get all the applause and the older kids are expected to be performers.

It's easy to be a "teacher dazzler" with the right music - that's truly music appreciation at it's best.

Betty

Everyone -

In respect to the earlier posters and what they took the time to post, I am going to try to salvage this topic. This means posts are going to disappear that are not appropriate and offensive, as will the answers. I hope this allows the discussion to continue without discussion of inappropriate things.

EDIT: It took some doing, but the offensive post and all discussion and defense of it is gone. The topic is back to what it was before the comments were made and the original discussion has been preserved and can continue.

Sorry if this doesn't float everyone's boat but it was either that OR remove the entire topic.

Ken


Ken

Thank you for the thoughts. I am thinking that since the child was 4 and 8 months when he started, that one mistake was not waiting until he was AT LEAST 5. At the time I let the parent know that I have not taught a child this young and that my own mentor/teacher does not recommend starting so young...but I was willing to teach if the parent really wanted to. I am considering asking the parent to take a break from lessons for 6 months...returning when this little boy is a full 5 1/2 years old. I think he'll progess more quickly at that age and lessen his father's frustration. I do not intend to put myself through the emotional distress of continuing to deal with a frustrated parent. From the beginning there were a couple of lessons where the child had recently been awakened from a nap and clung to his father. In that situation I talked with father and child together, not getting much participation from the child. Since then he has done better. I will think about moving more quickly through these books, but I can see that a 5 1/2 year old who started lessons last month is progessing MUCH more quickly. It may be that 5 1/2 is a better beginning age and I have learned a lot in teaching the first pre-primer student and this second pre-primer student is benefitting from it. Anyway, I think I'll limit new students to a minimum of age 5 1/2. I have seen a dramatic difference between starting at age 4+8months vs. age 5 1/2. But at this point I amconsidering recommending waiting 6 months or even letting parent know I will not be willing to continue until child is 5 1/2.  There is also a mild language barrier with father...we make effort to understand each other.

I'm thinking over the idea that I have moved too slowly through book A, after all this child was reading at 4. I think I'll summarize the end of A and move on to B. If this is not working, or if the child says "I don't want to do that" then I'll return to the idea of a 6 month break. I am not in the business of demanding a child to do something, and if he says he doesn't want to, then I am not the one to teach him.

I had a young girl whose parents were pretty much wanting her to learn something she couldn't have cared less about. She would spend the time ignoring me, doing summersaults on the floor next to the piano, just all out not interested in taking piano lessons and not afraid to test authority and push the limits. The parents wanted me to be firmer with her and I was trying to get the student to be interested in what was going on. Since their expectations were so different than mine, I dropped her. I didn't want to put that much energy into convincing a young child that she should want to do something for her parents enjoyment. I think the child has to want to be there at least a little.

If the child does enjoy the piano lessons and is wanting to continue, then I would make sure and structure the lessons with certain objectives in mind and check off the progress each week and keep it in a folder, giving a copy to the parents, so they know what has been learned. It can be very hard for an untrained eye to pick up on just how much is accomplished in all the fun.

Golly, I'm an old timer!

When I have a reluctant student I consider that my challenge to find a way to engage him in what is going on. I might in this situation play what is in the book, and sing it if there are words, and just have a good time with a couple of the songs. Just turning a few pages and looking at the illustrations, and saying things like:
1) What do we have here?
2) What a fun song!"
3) I really like this one!
4) What do you think about that song?
5) Harry, look what you are missing!
6) Mary you have to be on the bench to have a piano lesson - cartwheels is another activity called "gymnastics". I teach you piano and we make music together, that's what we do here. Won't you join me?

Speaking to them at their level gets them engaged in conversation where things can be worked out. I think it's like offering little things to get them engaged and then keep them engaged.

Remember when teachers used to tell you to "put your thinking caps on?" And you made the motions and tied it under your chin, completely following something imaginery and invisible, but got compliance from you.

One of the other things I completly believe is that you can't teach a person without their permission for you to teach.

I'm all for teacher and student sitting on the piano bench together - I love those primary/preparatory duets we can share it erases barriers before they have a chance to get started.

Another thing to "bind" you together would be that old saying "Two heads are better than one" or "Let's put our heads together."

I would never let a student dictate to me whether or not something could be done - not because I'm tough as nails - which I'm not - but because doors need to open in minds in order to find the discovery and adventure of music making - and refusing to enter through the door is a complete blockage of the mind. We have to find a way through - permission - and we have to engage the student or he will pull away over everything if given the opportunity.

My grandmother used to tell my mother, "Try coaxing her" which is the only advice I ever heard my grandmother give. That must be where I get such ideas - as I heard a lot of it in my early life experiences.

Betty

This child sits focused at the piano watching and listening but will matter of factly say he doesn't want to play something...so I'll play it, encourage tapping and singing...and perhaps the next week he'll give it a try. Last lesson on rhythm trains he was willing to try it whereas the previous week he was not. And it turns out he played it easily the first attempt and demontrated that he understands note values. He loves coming to lessons and learning in the writing book. I'll try more coaxing as you mentioned Betty, and try not to let the child dictate whether something can be done. Thanks for the advice. Hopefully I'll be able to rise to the challenge. By the way, in our area a parent will have a very difficult time finding a teacher to accept 5 year olds. There is a demand for teachers I think.

Good luck, Ann! I

am glad to see you networking with others to learn all that you can on the things you are experiencing.

Have you ever visited Martha Beth Lewis (google) on her website? Huge amount of advice from a piano teacher and pedagogue with a doctorate whose career includes lots of written advice.

Betty

Thanks Betty, I'll check out her website. I have consulted a friend who is a retired kindergarten teacher and she has given me a lot of useful advice. For example I could say "Would you like to play this with your right hand or your left hand?" Then if the child says he doesn't want to, let him know that's not one of the choices. That sort of thing...giving choices but having clear boundaries. Also she suggested a progress report to give to parent. I would need to make a list of skills, that can be checked off when it is accomplished. That gives the parent a good idea what's being worked on...as in kindergarten often parents would think nothing is being accomplished. Especially helpful for the parent who thinks "The child can read so why isn't he reading novels". Creating a written list of skills at each level (A,B,C) for early beginners will also help me to be more clear about what we are trying to accomplish.

Exactly!

Good advice. About managing the child, and about managing the work load. It also starts a process that helps the student to see the value of what the teacher is asking him to comply to.

Results also happen which is the planned outcome!

Enjoy!

Betty