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Re: Best Editions #916058
11/20/03 04:30 PM
11/20/03 04:30 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 25,603
New York City
pianoloverus Online content
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Quote
Originally posted by Hank Drake:


For Beethoven I prefer the Schenker edition, which is not only reliable textually, but recreated the visual layout as Beethoven wrote it (but a lot neater!). One edition I would avoid is the Schnabel edition, which alters Beethoven's phrase marks and generally imposes the pianist's ideas on the performer (ironically, Schnabel's own recordings are often poles apart from his own editions!).
My opinion on the Schnabel editions is different. I would say that unless one is at the professional level (and possibly even for professionals), what you can learn by carefully examining the numerous markings in the Schnabel edition far outways any negatives. I believe most of his editorial ideas (with the possible exception of the phrasing) are written in a way so that they can be distinguished from Beethoven's original markings.

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Re: Best Editions #916059
11/20/03 07:32 PM
11/20/03 07:32 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,971
Maine
kathyk Offline
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I've always used the Paderewski Chopin compilations. I was a little dismayed when my son's teacher (the Cortot student) gently poohed-poohed them. Just for the fun of it, I bought Cortot's version of the impromptus, and I don't believe she ever commented. My comment - they have a ridiculous amount of commentary which makes page turns way too frequent.

I, too, like (or learned to like) Henle's versions of Bach.

For Beethoven sonatas, Tovey.

Re: Best Editions #916060
11/21/03 10:50 AM
11/21/03 10:50 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,654
New York City
Phlebas Offline OP
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Thanks again everyone.

Kathyk, you should grill your son's teacher ot find out why she doesn't like the Paderewski editions.
As for Cortot, I have the edition of the etudes, and some of the exercises and commentary are interesting.
The Tovey - Beethoven - has a lot of commentary too. Tovey had a good sense of humor.

Re: Best Editions #916061
11/21/03 11:08 AM
11/21/03 11:08 AM
Joined: Nov 2002
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Kreisler Offline
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A word about heavily edited editions (like Schnabel or Von Bulow Beethoven...)

The concept of what an edition should be is very different nowadays than what it used to be. In the past, editions served the same purpose as recordings do today. That is, they are a record of one possible interpretation.

Paderewski Chopin is similar. It's not really "urtext," it's a record of the manner in which the leading Chopin interpreter of the day played his works.

So, it's not so much that Schenker Beethoven or Vienna Urtext Chopin is "better" than Von Bulow Beethoven or Paderewski Chopin, it's just that the philosophy behind the editions is very different. The former seeks to clarify the composer's original intentions, and the latter presents an interpretation.

Also, it should be noted that in the case of Chopin, there were a couple of different "first" editions. (I'm typing from memory so I'm not 100% sure of the facts, but the idea is solid.) There was a French first edition, an English first edition, and a German first edition. The three versions do not agree. (This is why you'll often find different versions of the b minor waltz, for example.) Which version is better? It's hard to say - Chopin authorized all of them, and all of them are considered "first" editions.


"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

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Re: Best Editions #916062
11/21/03 11:36 AM
11/21/03 11:36 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,971
Maine
kathyk Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by Kreisler:


Paderewski Chopin is similar. It's not really "urtext," it's a record of the manner in which the leading Chopin interpreter of the day played his works.

Phlebas, I think that was the gist of her criticism, that Paderewski had some quirky interpretations, particularly on embellishments.

Re: Best Editions #916063
11/21/03 04:15 PM
11/21/03 04:15 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,654
New York City
Phlebas Offline OP
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Phlebas  Offline OP
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Thanks again kathyk.

Also, thanks Kreisler. That's a good point about editions - Schnabel, e.g. , vs an Urtext.

Re: Best Editions #916064
11/22/03 08:25 AM
11/22/03 08:25 AM
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 46
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kawai9046 Offline
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If anyone in the forum has seen or used the Stewart Gordon edition (Alfred Pub.) of eight Beethoven sonatas, I would appreciate comments. It's supposedly heavily researched in terms of performance practices. For an Alfred publication, it comes with a price tag of $24.95.

Re: Best Editions #916065
11/22/03 09:53 AM
11/22/03 09:53 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,971
Maine
kathyk Offline
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Maine
I will have to go back and read some of Tovey's comments. I bought the 3-volume set of B's sonatas as a student and at my teacher's promting and never really paid much attention to the commentary. I have always admired the handsome, hard, cloth-bound, red covers, though. I wonder if they still come that way.

Re: Best Editions [Re: Phlebas] #2796214
12/28/18 03:08 PM
12/28/18 03:08 PM
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 17
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Azariah Offline
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Posts: 17
I have mixed feelings on Henle. It really depends upon the musical knowledge level of the student and also whether they are taking lessons. If the student has strong musical knowledge and/or a teacher to guide them then I think henle is best. However, for a student still learning how to interpret music the Henle editions can be much more challenging. I personally own Henle editions of about 2/3 of my music. There are some times when I will also bring notes over to my Henle book from an edited version I own. The Palmer masterpiece series is nice because it puts a lot of the editing in grey.

Re: Best Editions [Re: Phlebas] #2866454
07/06/19 01:21 AM
07/06/19 01:21 AM
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 78
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rmns2bseen Offline
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Posts: 78
If you can afford it, I think it's good to have an urtext and at least one performing edition. For Bach, the Bärenreiter editions are excellent except, in my opinion, for the Goldberg Variations. For that I still prefer the old Kirkpatrick edition. Whatever textual inaccuracies there may be in Kirkpatrick are outweighed by his Preface, which still holds up pretty well. For the English Suites, Bärenreiter; but I do have a soft spot for the old Czerny edition (I've found the fingering and dynamics suggestions to be more useful than the suggested phrasing). For the WTC, Bärenreiter exclusively.

Similarly, I have a soft spot for the seemingly oft-maligned von Bülow-Lebert edition of Beethoven's sonatas. But hey that's what I grew up with. But I think Henle is a must-have there.

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