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Re: The Left Hand of the Pathetique #915645
01/21/08 07:09 PM
01/21/08 07:09 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 667
Toronto
M
Mr_Kitty Offline
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Mr_Kitty  Offline
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M

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 667
Toronto
Mac knows more than you guys give him credit for (except for Kreisler).

I hope he enjoyed his fishing trip.

Seriously. Fishing is a wonderful way to relax...............and catch fish!

"His" ideas DO warrant attention. Do not dismiss them because of his combative style.

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Re: The Left Hand of the Pathetique #915646
01/22/08 05:45 AM
01/22/08 05:45 AM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 3,755
England/Switzerland
AJB Offline
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AJB  Offline
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England/Switzerland
The problem is, or perhaps was as mac777 has seemingly vanished, is that he was not really expressing his ideas. Rather, he was mainly being derogatory about others and then throwing a few snippets of information out. He then concluded this limited range of postings with some remarkably silly remarks about how we could benefit from his expertise for $500 an hour.

He does not seem to have grasped the purpose of a public forum.

He may have some good ideas, or at least be capable of repeating the ideas of those who taught him, but his method of expressing them is so abrasive that any gems that he may have to impart are largely obscured by the rather childish invective.


Currently playing 2017 C212 with carbon fibre soundboard, WNG action. Working on Bach, Beethoven, Grieg mainly.
Re: The Left Hand of the Pathetique #915647
01/22/08 08:38 PM
01/22/08 08:38 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 667
Toronto
M
Mr_Kitty Offline
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M

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 667
Toronto
Vanish? He just went fishing...

Re: The Left Hand of the Pathetique #915648
01/23/08 04:02 PM
01/23/08 04:02 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 3,755
England/Switzerland
AJB Offline
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AJB  Offline
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England/Switzerland
And has not returned. We must send out a search party.

Maybe in the meantime the ideas touted could be explored?


Currently playing 2017 C212 with carbon fibre soundboard, WNG action. Working on Bach, Beethoven, Grieg mainly.
Re: The Left Hand of the Pathetique #915649
01/24/08 12:05 AM
01/24/08 12:05 AM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 667
Toronto
M
Mr_Kitty Offline
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Mr_Kitty  Offline
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M

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 667
Toronto
....or the ideas trouted?
lol I shouldn't be allowed such opportunities for PUNishment.......

Re: The Left Hand of the Pathetique #915650
01/24/08 02:21 AM
01/24/08 02:21 AM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 3,755
England/Switzerland
AJB Offline
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AJB  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 3,755
England/Switzerland
Not to carp on about it do you think mac777 would take his payment COD? Maybe he only gives lessons at his plaice. I must say I am beginning to feel like a fish out of water in this thread, so maybe it is time to tuna up my guitar and crab a beer.


Currently playing 2017 C212 with carbon fibre soundboard, WNG action. Working on Bach, Beethoven, Grieg mainly.
Re: The Left Hand of the Pathetique #915651
01/24/08 12:37 PM
01/24/08 12:37 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 667
Toronto
M
Mr_Kitty Offline
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Mr_Kitty  Offline
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M

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 667
Toronto
Okay you win, hands down. wink

Re: The Left Hand of the Pathetique #915652
01/24/08 08:26 PM
01/24/08 08:26 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,178
Minnesota
Marty in Minnesota Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014
Marty in Minnesota  Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,178
Minnesota
WOW! This is my first visit to this forum. Is this how it always goes?

When I saw that the tread was in reference to the "Pathetique", I opened it immediately as I am currently pulling this sonata out of mothballs.

I was reading Kreisler's suggestions with interest and then wham. Not good - not good.

I am still wondering if anyone has any further, and civilized suggestions on practicing the tremolo passages. For the most part, keeping relaxed and practicing in rhythms seems to be the most effective for me, but I welcome all suggestions.

Haven't we all decided on the proper bench height long ago?

Since I'm not a fisherman and don't drive a Harley, I might as well hang around here in hopes that this was an aberration.


Marty in Minnesota
Re: The Left Hand of the Pathetique #915653
01/25/08 08:28 AM
01/25/08 08:28 AM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 26
Australia
mario 08 Offline
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mario 08  Offline
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Posts: 26
Australia
This movement of the piece is all about total relaxation. Slow and steady rehearsal is the key. Shoulders need to be relaxed and wrist resting comfortably on the keyboard. Think relaxation. Think floating along. Remember your Left hand is free to ' float ' at all time arround the bass end of you piano.
Try to think of both hands working as one cohesive unit. Remember the metronome. Most important in rehearsing a piece of this nature. Remember to make much of the dynamics in this piece - this also gives you a chance to slow up a little. Remembeer that this piece ( like all pieces ) is the composers expression of his thoughts and feelings. You must adopt this approach when you are playing at all times.. Each movement of this work brings its own challenges. Just as the first movement presents the challenge of the left hand so the third movement presents a challenge of a different nature for the left hand throwing regularly to the right. The second movement has the challenge of the right hand as balanced against the left hand in sound.

Just relax and above all think of the music effect you are stricing to create. Lots of rotary exercises will help you to limber up before you start to play the first movement. Some scale to ready your fingers.

Enjoy the piece. I am doing a revision of this piece after some 20 years. I selected an Associated Board edition ( for editorial markings and clarity of print and a fine illustration of ornaments used in this piece ).


Maurice
Re: The Left Hand of the Pathetique #915654
01/25/08 08:35 AM
01/25/08 08:35 AM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 13,837
Iowa City, IA
Kreisler Offline OP
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Kreisler  Offline OP
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Iowa City, IA
Quote
Originally posted by Marty_2:
WOW! This is my first visit to this forum. Is this how it always goes?

Since I'm not a fisherman and don't drive a Harley, I might as well hang around here in hopes that this was an aberration.
This was definitely an aberration, and I plan to clean up the post pretty soon.

Welcome to the forums!


"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

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Re: The Left Hand of the Pathetique #915655
01/25/08 09:57 AM
01/25/08 09:57 AM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 3,755
England/Switzerland
AJB Offline
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AJB  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2005
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England/Switzerland
Mario - what exactly do you mean by "rotary exercises"?


Currently playing 2017 C212 with carbon fibre soundboard, WNG action. Working on Bach, Beethoven, Grieg mainly.
Re: The Left Hand of the Pathetique #915656
01/25/08 10:57 AM
01/25/08 10:57 AM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,178
Minnesota
Marty in Minnesota Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014
Marty in Minnesota  Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,178
Minnesota
Hi Maurice,

Thank you for your insights and suggestions.

I am not familiar with Associated Board editions. Can you provide any further info. I see that you are from Australia and wonder if these are available in the US. I would love to check out their editions.

Thanks,


Marty in Minnesota
Re: The Left Hand of the Pathetique #915657
01/25/08 11:21 AM
01/25/08 11:21 AM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 667
Toronto
M
Mr_Kitty Offline
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Mr_Kitty  Offline
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M

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 667
Toronto
You (or anyone else for that matter) will never be able to play the first movement using rotation techniques with as much speed, fluency, and control as a someone who keeps their hand still and lets the fingers do the work.
However, to achieve this level of technique takes many many hours at the piano.

If you do not practice 2000 hours a year (i.e. you have a day job) then using rotation will probably work just fine.

Good luck with this difficult sonata. Please post recordings of your progress!

Re: The Left Hand of the Pathetique #915658
01/25/08 02:47 PM
01/25/08 02:47 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 3,755
England/Switzerland
AJB Offline
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AJB  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 3,755
England/Switzerland
This was why I asked the question above really. If it what I understand by rotation, then I would not have thought it the best way forward.


Currently playing 2017 C212 with carbon fibre soundboard, WNG action. Working on Bach, Beethoven, Grieg mainly.
Re: The Left Hand of the Pathetique #915659
01/27/08 02:21 PM
01/27/08 02:21 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 34
D
dreamtime Offline
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 34
What happens if you start piano after 30? I guess you must be really done by that time smile S

"TECHNIQUE is not understood by many ... in fact MOST college / uni famous professors haven't got a clue .... TECHNIQUE is taught to YOUNG people .... it should all be in place by age 12 or so ... improved for the next couple of years ... then it's all done ... "

Re: The Left Hand of the Pathetique #915660
01/27/08 11:31 PM
01/27/08 11:31 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 667
Toronto
M
Mr_Kitty Offline
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M

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 667
Toronto
Who said that?

Re: The Left Hand of the Pathetique #915661
01/30/08 01:02 AM
01/30/08 01:02 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,035
Texas
Loki Offline
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Loki  Offline
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Posts: 1,035
Texas
Mac777 said that at the beginning of the thread if you take a look on the bottom of page 1.


Houston, Texas
Re: The Left Hand of the Pathetique #915662
01/31/08 07:31 AM
01/31/08 07:31 AM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 3,755
England/Switzerland
AJB Offline
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AJB  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 3,755
England/Switzerland
However, if a pianist began piano after the age of 12, or did not acquire perfect technique before then, that is no reason to despair! We learn better and faster as children. But we can still learn effectively as adults.

To make statements that most college professors have not got a clue seems a bit wild as it is unlikely that anyone will have checked out more than a few. It is a bit like saying that most apples have maggots in them ....on the basis that one has bitten into the occasional imperfect apple. Such generalizations often dilute otherwise interesting arguments.


Currently playing 2017 C212 with carbon fibre soundboard, WNG action. Working on Bach, Beethoven, Grieg mainly.
Re: The Left Hand of the Pathetique #915663
02/08/08 05:56 AM
02/08/08 05:56 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 28
P
Poor Dave Offline
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Posts: 28
Mac777 is a laid back Queenslander from Australia wink Relaxation techniques must be a natural thing for him laugh


I have a Kawai RX-5G... it sounds like a coffee maker.
Re: The Left Hand of the Pathetique #915664
02/19/08 06:59 PM
02/19/08 06:59 PM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 483
Connecticut/Cincinnati
C
computerpro3 Offline
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Posts: 483
Connecticut/Cincinnati
Quote
Originally posted by Mac777:
blah blah blah am so great I like fishing blah blah blah kiss my feet blah blah blah
Sorry, but your statement that you have to have technique in place by the time you are 12 is simply ridiculous. I started piano when I was 16 and am doing just fine at the Cincinnati College-Conservatory of Music. I hope nobody takes you seriously, you might ruin a lifetime of enjoyment for someone.

And I'll trust my teacher's advice over yours anyday when it comes to technique. I don't think YOU won the Naumburg International Piano Competition.

I am certainly open and receptive to what you have to say, but can you at least avoid dissing people who are experienced, competent musicians (like Kriesler and "all the college professors" out there)?

On a side note, I just got assigned the Pathetique. Will be interesting to see how it goes with the infamous tremolo's. It doesn't look that bad but I haven't played through it yet.

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