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Lets keep this to pre-college. Describe the best and/or worse teachers who have taught you.

One teacher that really stands out in my mind was a high school English teacher. On the first day in each of her classes she literally put the fear of God in her students accompanied by some very smart psychology.

She began by telling us about herself.

"I'm married. I have no children. I don't want any children. As a matter of fact, I don't even like children. I get all the exposure to children that I can take working 8 hours a day in this classroom."

"You will be in this class, at your desk, quiet, and ready to begin when the bell rings. Not 3 seconds after. I do not put up with talking, cheating on tests, or bad behavior of any kind. I will be happy to escourt you to the principal's office now, if you do not feel you can play by these rules or later if you have a lapse of memory."

"In addition you should know this up front. I have rarely given an A. I can't even remember the last time I gave an A. In my class you are going to have to be really smart to even get a B. I can count on one hand the 'A's I've given in 10 years of teaching. Now open your books to page 3 and let's get started.

You better believe this new teacher was the talk of the school! Virtually every student left her classroom shaking their heads knowing without a doubt that this teacher and this class was going to be tough. We were doomed. In essense, what she did psychologically, was issue not only a warning, but a challenge to each of us to make an A.

After scaring the wits out of us, she turned out to be one of the nicest, toughest, best teachers that I ever had. We found out that she really did like us and that some of us could get an A. I did. I also had to work for it.

Since this was so long, I may add worse teacher later.

This must be something taught in teacher's college. My university english/lit prof said the same thing. Ha ha. You can guess what I received.

sounds like my kind of teacher.

my most favorite of all my teachers growing up was my sixth grade teacher. she gave me a D in math. i was completely stricken, truly heartbroken, devastated.

i held back my tears all day, the day we received our report cards. i waited in silence at the end of the day until i was the very last student left in the classroom and mrs. c. was at her desk, working.

without looking up she asked me why i was still there. i immediately burst into tears and wailed "why did you give me a D in math?" i could hardly get the words out. i could hardly breathe. (i wasn't a straight A student, but i worked hard, and had never gotten a D before in my life. and this was my most favorite teacher, ever. the world was coming to an end!)

she looked up and smiled at me very warmly and reassuringly. "but isn't what you really want to be a writer?"

i was dumbfounded. no one had ever suggested such a thing to me before, even though i had written the all-school play that year, had written tons of poetry, and had won the award for being the most prodigious reader in the school.

i wish i had listened to her. it would have saved me a lot of time. i didn't figure out i wanted to be a writer until i was 27. (i always was stubborn, but also had too many interests).

meanwhile, in seventh grade, i got straight A s in algebra.... i guess i needed to prove something to myself. dumb.

My favorite teachers were both English teachers, but at the opposite ends of the spectrum.

Teacher A was "cool," wore long gauze skirts, and was a great friend and mentor. She taught English and Humanities, and wasn't at all afraid to introduce our grubby band of high schoolers to almost anything: music, poetry, philosophy, art, the Classics, gourmet cooking (!), etc. She was also not one to flinch away from controversy: she sponsored both the before-school Bible Study group and passed out anti-Nixon rally flyers (this was during Watergate). It was possible to try out almost anything in her class, which was a great freedom for many of us who were trying on a lot of personalities, trying to figure out who we would ultimately be.

The second teacher left school after my senior year to join the Army. She was a taskmaster of the first degree, had incredibly high standards, and assigned a lot of homework. She was my teacher for College Composition, and she taught us all how to write. She would take our "compositions," put them on one of those overhead thingies, and critique everything in front of the class. She spared no one-- and as a result, no one felt "picked on." We ended up working as a true writer's workshop, where we all discussed each other's efforts with compassion, and intelligently. I learned how to write from her. (Don't take my posts as evidence of her craft; you should read my "real" writing!).

As an aside, I was taking Freshman English at the local uni while taking her College Comp class. I turned in the same papers in both classes as much as possible. I got an "A" at university, and a "B" in my high school prep class!

Nina

For the most part my teachers must have been good otherwise I would not have followed the path I did following grade school. My good teachers were Social Studies teachers, English teachers, Art teachers and all subjects that did not involve numbers.

I can honestly say that I have nothing but bad recollections about Math teachers other than perhaps one or two. To me they always seemed impatient and authoritarian. As a result, I was dismally poor at math and remain functionally innumerate (as opposed to illiterate)to this day. Indeed were it not for the pocket calculator- IMHO, the greatest invention since the boomerang and wheel- I am not sure how I would cope with all but the simplest of mathematical functions.

If I were to rate a particular teacher as bad it would have to go to my grade 6 teacher- an hysterical sadist who believed psychological terror was an effective tool to reinforce learning retention. Needless to say that I am proud that I did very poorly in her arithmetic classes in an effort to elicit her rage.

Lots of good ones. And I can forgive all the bad teachers except one...

Rugby/Football

Between the ages of about 8 and 11, I was subjected to regular humiliation and pointless laps of the school grounds, before practice, after practice, and at any other available opportunity. At the time, I wanted to crush his head to a pulp.

He still lives very near me. I have never reduced a grown man to a snivelling wreck, but they say you should try everything once...

David

There is a trend here if anyone cares to see it emerge. Interesting to say the least, given the recent discussion on education in public schools.

When all is said and done, is it not the teacher who might have a greater influence over your child's life, secondary to yours as a parent? You would hope not but look at the statistics.

Ask yourself, how many waking hours per day your child spends (excluding weekends) with you, a parent (working or not) versus the time your child spends with teachers?

You might be surprised just how much influence that teacher in the classroom has, and how little you have! Would this not prompt you to place greater influence over WHO that teacher is and WHAT they are doing with your child in the classroom?

And whether they are among the best or the worse that you remember?

Bcarey, you make a very good point, the teacher has (or can have) tremendous influence. The caring nature of a teacher is an implicit requirement for excellence, especially at the elementary through middle school years. Kindness, empathy, fair-but-firm, understanding, earned respect, love of learning, love of fun, love of people -- can educate more than a math problem. The teacher is indeed In Loco Parentis based on contact hours per day.

I found Renauda's comment on the "Conservative" thread disconcerting. I may have misunderstood, but this does not strike me as the kind of teacher I would prefer for any child or adult:

Renauda, from the many other posts of yours I have read, the above seems like. . . a different person. I find it hard to believe you would miss out on the wonderful relationships you could enjoy, at a teacher/student level.

rvaga,

I cannot speak for Renauda (whose other posts I too have thought showed a gentle nature), but I wonder if he was reacting to the word "friendship" as meaning between peers. I know I was, when I replied to Kurim (lots of guilt pangs about that one, but that's another story).

So many parents and other adults try to meet the student as a buddy, including the use of first names on both sides and so on. In a very few cases it works and the kid doesn't lose out on what I see as a much needed authority figure - an adult not afraid of acting like one and willing to try to provide both security and guidance (and a good role model) to the child. I don't think, for the most part this is possible, if the adult is trying to meet students as one of them.

There's a big difference between squatting down to talk to a little kid eye-to-eye (but still remaining "Dad" or "Ms. Smithers" or whomever) - and asking to be called "Suzy", refusing to enforce rules, making off-color jokes...

Again, I don't know if this is what was going through Renauda's mind, but it sure went through mine as a parent. I would also imagine that in many classrooms, maintaining discipline becomes much more difficult with the "I'm just one of you" approach.

But real caring - better still, "liking" - that's a sine qua non. That's not the same as friendship. Gosh, many's the time in working on IEP's for my two sons (the first for ADD and giftedness, the second just giftedness, as if anything were so simple), I've wanted to have it include, "put your arm around his shoulders once in a while"(younger kids), "Smile at him"...like him!. Or if you can't, admit it and find a teacher who will!

Say, on another subject - how did the meeting go?

bcarey -

Great thread!

Perhaps the education system is not so fraught over there, but over here a primary or secondary school teacher would be lucky if he/she had the time to form such a relationship without detracting from the education of the other 25-30 pupils in a class and however many 100's in a year group...

David

Another example (story).

My 11th grade English teacher, Miss Edwards. Actually a good teacher. I learned a lot in her class because she could present material in a very interesting manner.

The problem was she liked boys better than girls. She took an interest in their studies and personal endeavors, but only tolerated girls, unless you happened to be dating a boy she really liked. Then you were her friend. In case you're thinking the worse, she would, by most standards be considered elderly. This wasn't a sexual thing.

All the girls knew her idiosyncracies and remained on guard. She especially liked to pick on attractive girls for some reason. She would single out one girl for no obvious or some petty reason, then taunt, ridicule, and humiliate until the girl was in tears. Then she was happy and let up. It was not pretty to watch!

Needless to say, my turn came. My locker lock jammed and it took me an unusual amount of time to get into my locker to get my books. I came into class seconds after the bell rang. When getting the expected "why are you late", I apologized for being late and explained the problem.

It was my turn. She proceeded like this. Miss b, do you realize that some girls aren't all as pretty as they think they are? Slinks into desk. Don't know how to answer that question. "You have on a new dress today, don't you." "Yes, it's new." (Honestly, it was and I thought I was hot stuff.) I sat there steeling myself for the humiliation that I knew was just beginning. She continued to sarcastically criticize my hair, my shoes, my dress, my personality, on and on for about 10 minutes. I sat there determined not to cry. I would rather die, than cry. There was no way was I going to let her break me. I did not cry. Both she and I knew that I had won. She never subjected me to her ridicule again.

bcarey, I believe in respecting teachers, but you should have let her have it with both barrels! Of course, if you lived down south then I suppose it would have been harder for you. Still, I remember when a guy punched our physics teacher in the mouth. Too bad, he was normally a pretty cool guy. Used to come in stoned all the time, though.

Permit me to clarify what I meant for I hold to this statement. I am not referring to elementary schools as I have no experience of dealing with little people ( as a principal acquaintance calls them). My position stems from a classroom management strategy aimed at the secondary level. The ultimate goal is to manage a classroom by means of a referent power base. In otherwords the students learn and maintain order because you as a teacher receive their respect. It is a two way street mutual respect between teacher and class. Essentially the students manage themselves. In order to arrive at this goal a teacher must however demonstrate that 1) their power as a teacher is legitimate- i.e "in parentis locus" in addition to consistent ethical management and 2) expertise in the particualr subject area- teacher as expert. There is a fourth level of management which I DO NOT adhere to; namely an authoritarian management style- the type that I regretably had to put up with through my elementary and Jr. High schooling.

A pitfall of many beginning teachers is that they want to exercise referent power in the classroom immediately before taking the time and effort to establish legitimate and expert authority first. Unfortunately students misconstrue the teacher's intentions and see the teacher as a peer. Teacher as "buddy" or "one of us". The classroom pecking order then determines whether or not anything will be learned. Often these are the teachers who throw in the towel after a few years or worse, end up in some sort of legal mess that often costs them their careers- sometimes justifiably I might add.

With continuing education adults the Legitimate power base is not an issue. Teacher as expert seems to rapidly develop into a referent power base and students and teacher work to towards a mutually agreed upon learning goal.

I regret that I may have implied that I was authoritarian. I am not. But I am also not part of the popular culture of the students. I still often wear a conservative business suit and tie in the classroom. Professionally I regard myself as an ambassador of my generation to their generation and carry myself accordingly. I encourage each student to work cooperatively and collaboratively to the best of each individual's abilities with their peers. Of the 120 students in Grade 11 Social Studies and Grades 10 IB (International Baccalaureate) and 12 IB this past term, I get along just fine with 98% of the students. Granted, this strategy seems to work best with the more academically oriented and learning motivated students. The few that cause me problems are those who demand to be spoon fed or those who are there because their parents insist that they take matriculation stream course work. All know that I am available to help them when needed knowing that my rubric rewards initiative and creativity but provides nothing for charm and guile.

I hope that this clears up any loose ends my earlier statement left.

Ariel:

Good post. A good teacher develops "friendships" with students based on mutual respect. At the same time, the teacher remains the teacher and must not become a "buddy". It's a fine line to walk and it is better to err on the side of less friendship and continued respect than on the buddy side. That line becomes harder to maintain as students age.

I think my poorest high school teacher was the one I had in calculus. She wrote the assignments on the board and graded papers all class. George and I figured out the material and explained it to the others. I think a line integral would have sent her screaming from the room.

Renauda,

I have to say that I agree with you. I believe it's better for the teacher to be the teacher, rather than a friend. That does not mean that both can't have respect for the other.

The same can be said for the parent child relationship. Many parents try to be the friend instead of the parent. I don't think that's really possible until the child, or student is grown.

When necessary, I often use silence and reframing techniques to maintain classroom order. Humour- not sarcasm or ridicule- works wonders for most classroom situations. Another technique I discovered, quite by accident and out of desperation with a grade 9 class- was using the classroom pecking order. It's particularly effective with grades 8 to 11 on those dreaded last class on Friday afternoon sessions.

It works like this: the class is hovering on the edge of anarchy and the ambient noise level is high. There is really nothing you can say to sustain order. I make a statement or ask a question directed to either the alpha male or female in the class. I am deaf to their response and calmly say "I wish your classmates would be quiet so that I can hear you." The respondent then turns to the class and tells them to "stifle it" and classroom order reigns supreme. I make sure that there is follow up to keep the "alpha" engaged for a few minutes. The lesson is not interrupted and everyone is on task. Works like a charm: instead of creating a duality I just go with the flow.

Memorable teachers. Yes, there are all kinds. There was 2nd-grade Mrs. Ferwerda, who throw a fit if you couldn't pronouce her name correctly. I remember one boy being lifted up, turned upside down, and carried to the back of the room to the sink where his mouth was washed out. And I will never forgive my 5th grade teacher for making the entire class re-take a spelling test on the South American country names (!) because someone had told her I cheated. I didn't. I had written a name out several times to see what looked best, and then erased. I will also never in my entire life forgive Carol Moll for turning me in. Or all the kids who shunned me. Life is rough for a 10 year old. And the STRESS of worrying about whether or not I would again get 100% on that difficult test. I did. Many years later that teacher came to a family memorial service and I just wanted to yell at her. And then there's my 6th grade male teacher who was propositioning the girls. It took us half a school year to get him fired. No one would believe us. But, thankfully, there were all those wonderful, inspiring teachers that made a lasting difference in my life. God bless them.

Renauda,

Your comment reminded me of another good teacher I had in high school. Mr Walker taught as he called it "Jawm ah tree" (geometry, if anyone needs interpretation). He was nearing retirement at the time. Smart as a whip, down-home, no-nonsense, country boy type. He had a sure fire way to bring that "ambient noise level" to the point of being able to hear a pin drop.

Without any warning, he would slam a book down on his desk so hard that is sounded like a gun, adding "y'all shut-up". We did!

To my knowledge he never gave a single conduct to anyone on their report card. Discipline was never a problem in his class. He let us know when we had pushed him to the limit. He was also an excellent teacher.

That same class had a student teacher for 6 weeks that was a basket case by the end of her stay. Some of the guys learned that they could run all over her and they did. They could reduce her to tears at the blink of an eye.

A couple of points:

1. Clothes make the man. Back in the dark ages, when I was in high school, male teachers were required to wear ties, female teachers were required to wear dresses, or pantsuits. I never saw my Principal in less than a suit, or tie&blazer.

They were teachers, we were students, and the line was never crossed, even though many of the teachers in my country school were family. At school they were always adressed as Mister, Mrs, or Miss.

That did not mean they could not be friendly, or helpful. Most of them would have tutored you at their home, if they thought you needed the help that badly.

2. Management styles in the classroom. I believe most good teachers have a variety of management modes to adequately address classroom problems. Sometimes it's humor, or sometimes it's silence, but sometimes it is authoritarian.

I think different tactics, works for different classes, and different students.