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#88967 - 01/03/05 12:12 PM George Steck / America Sejung Pianos  
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 153
kraniak Offline
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SW Florida
In the early days of my piano quest, I played the various Dongbeis: Nordiska, Story & Clark, etc., and found them to be below my threshold of acceptability. Today I was looking for a Pramberger and called a distant dealer. He was out of the Prambergers but began extolling the virtues of yet another Chinese piano. He made some pretty strong claims about it, not the least of which that it was every bit as good as an RX or C series (Kawai & Yamaha respectively). Pretty bold claim.

Before I drive a couple hours to go see/hear this piano, does anyone have any opinion on George Steck pianos? These are reportedly made in the new Sejung factory in China. The dealer's asking price is $8,500 for the 5'-8" in polished ebony. If these pianos are even remotely as good as he claims, it would be a great deal.

Thanks.

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#88968 - 01/03/05 12:43 PM Re: George Steck / America Sejung Pianos  
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Jolly Offline
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While I don't mind driving a couple of hours to look at pianos, the claim is too good to be true.

A lot of the guys on the board do like the Sejungs, and think they have made remarkable progess in a short time.

But I wouldn't compare them to a RX or C piano.


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#88969 - 01/03/05 01:05 PM Re: George Steck / America Sejung Pianos  
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justme Offline
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I definitely wouldn't compare them to an RX or C piano.

But, if I'm spending under 10K for a piano and if I'm a player I would definitely see as many as I can in that price range. They are all going to be similar in quality IMHO.

If you do drive there, DO take a look at the quality of the soundboard if it's solid spruce. Down here the "inferior" solid spruce soundbaords have problems.

#88970 - 01/03/05 01:23 PM Re: George Steck / America Sejung Pianos  
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Larry Offline
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Deep in Cherokee Country
I wouldn't even consider the Sejung product to be on par with the Dong Bhei product, much less Kawai.


Life isn't measured by the breaths you take. Life is measured by the things that left you breathless
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#88971 - 01/03/05 01:26 PM Re: George Steck / America Sejung Pianos  
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mikhailoh Offline
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Kraniak,

If that's all you are going to play, don't bother. They're on a par with the others you played,if that.


Michael

====

He is so solemn, detached and uninvolved he makes Mr. Spock look like Hunter S. Thompson at closing time.'
#88972 - 01/03/05 02:38 PM Re: George Steck / America Sejung Pianos  
Joined: Sep 2003
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Del Offline
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Del  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 5,523
Olympia, Washington
Quote
Originally posted by kraniak:

Before I drive a couple hours to go see/hear this piano, does anyone have any opinion on George Steck pianos? These are reportedly made in the new Sejung factory in China. The dealer's asking price is $8,500 for the 5'-8" in polished ebony. If these pianos are even remotely as good as he claims, it would be a great deal.

Thanks.
Just remember that the piano you will be looking at will be a Sejung piano, not a George Steck. Mr Steck bears no responsibility for either the design or the build quality.

Del


Delwin D Fandrich
Piano Research, Design & Manufacturing Consultant
ddfandrich@gmail.com
(To contact me privately please use this e-mail address.)

Stupidity is a rare condition, ignorance is a common choice. --Anon
#88973 - 01/03/05 03:53 PM Re: George Steck / America Sejung Pianos  
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iyi bir piano Offline
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iyi bir piano  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 664
USA
kraniak:

Don't waste your time!
or money in the worse case.

George Steck and all Senjung pianos are JUNK.

Call a few piano technicians and you'll hear the true.These pianos are incredible rubbish!

#88974 - 01/03/05 04:43 PM Re: George Steck / America Sejung Pianos  
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 50
Gary Egger Offline
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Gary Egger  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 50
San Francisco, CA
Being the Western States Representative for Sejung products I felt it necessary to respond to some of the comments in this thread.
I recently visited the factory in China and took a lot of pictures which I put into a powerpoint presentation for my existing dealers and one for their customers. I will let the powerpoint speak for itself as far as the build quality.
For you that know my past retailing experience with some of the finest pianos in the world can vouch for my integrity that it is not a spin but an accurate representation of what is being produced there. I will be happy to send the powerpoint through email if any of you want to PM me with your email address. If Piano World can provide me the way to do it, I will certainly post it on the site here.

I would hardly call Solid Spruce soundboards from Siberia, Wet sand cast plates and Birch/Maple rims rubbish.

I have learned that posting on the forum can invite a whole lot of positive and negative commentary which is why most reps dont offer their comments.

I hope the powerpoint can be a constructive bit of information that will help future piano customers make an informed decision if they choose to want to see it.

Gary Egger
Regional Sales Manager for the Western States
America Sejung Corp


Gary Egger
Sales Manager
Music Exchange
San Francisco Showroom
415-552-0445
#88975 - 01/03/05 05:02 PM Re: George Steck / America Sejung Pianos  
Joined: May 2001
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Steve Cohen Online content
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Maryland/DC/No. VA
Welcome Gary.

Don't pay any attention to iyi. He's a troll here who apparently if off his meds again.


Piano Industry Consultant- http://www.linkedin.com/pub/steve-cohen/6/b92/b80

Consultant & Contributing Editor - Acoustic & Digital Piano Buyer

Jasons Music
Maryland/DC/No. VA
Since 1937.

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My postings, unless stated otherwise, are my personal opinions, not those of my clients.
#88976 - 01/03/05 05:08 PM Re: George Steck / America Sejung Pianos  
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mikhailoh Offline
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Cincinnati
Gary,

Thanks for your post. I do not support the labeling of your product, or any piano I played in my hunt, as junk or rubbish.

I would like to view the presentation, if you will be so kind as to email it to me at the address in my profile.

Thanks ,


Michael

====

He is so solemn, detached and uninvolved he makes Mr. Spock look like Hunter S. Thompson at closing time.'
#88977 - 01/03/05 05:13 PM Re: George Steck / America Sejung Pianos  
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Norbert Offline
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kraniak:

You could be in for a surprise - as long as you compare the Sejung 5'6 to the 5' RX1 or C1's not the larger models!

And P.S.: $ 8,500 doesn't buy you either!

Tell us about your experience later!

norbert smile


www.heritagepianos.com
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#88978 - 01/03/05 06:02 PM Re: George Steck / America Sejung Pianos  
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#88979 - 01/03/05 06:23 PM Re: George Steck / America Sejung Pianos  
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John Tudor Offline
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John Tudor  Offline
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Los Angeles, Pasadena, Califor...
Where are RX1's and C1's made?


Pianos Wholesale, Tudor & Co.
(626)442-1150
Complete In-house Rebuilder.
New August Forster & Bohemia Pianos, also personally rebuilt instruments of high quality.
#88980 - 01/03/05 06:31 PM Re: George Steck / America Sejung Pianos  
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Kenpcola Offline
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Kenpcola  Offline
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Pensacola, FL
Very interesting discussion, indeed.
The only thing really matter to me is track record.
Those chinese pianos are new comer in the U.S . No one really knows how they perform or stay strong after 20 yr or so since grand pianos are considered for very long term service and use, not for come and go use like electronics.
I am sure ALL grand piano manufacturers do their best to make their products as good as possible.
Given that, spending $8500 on it does need a lot of considerations.

#88981 - 01/03/05 09:02 PM Re: George Steck / America Sejung Pianos  
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kraniak Offline
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kraniak  Offline
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SW Florida
I guess I'll have to make the drive and try the Sejung myself. Stay tuned...

#88982 - 01/04/05 07:59 AM Re: George Steck / America Sejung Pianos  
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TomFL Offline
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TomFL  Offline
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Oh, no.... IYI's back..... mad

GO AWAY!!!!!

#88983 - 01/04/05 09:08 AM Re: George Steck / America Sejung Pianos  
Joined: Jun 2001
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Jolly Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by Kenpcola:
Very interesting discussion, indeed.
The only thing really matter to me is track record.
Those chinese pianos are new comer in the U.S . No one really knows how they perform or stay strong after 20 yr or so since grand pianos are considered for very long term service and use, not for come and go use like electronics.
I am sure ALL grand piano manufacturers do their best to make their products as good as possible.
Given that, spending $8500 on it does need a lot of considerations.
Here's what you are hoping for...

Believe it, or not, at one time, Yamaha was not considered a good piano, just another piece of Made in Japan junk (that's overstating it, I know, but bear with me).

But guys who plunked down their money, and took a chance, got more value for their dollar, than almost anything else in the market. I think that is where we are with the Chinese.

Undoubtedly, some brands are better than others. Some are going to hold up much better than anticipated. Some will not. Some are eventually going to climb the quality (and price) ladder, and a rising tide will lift all boats, making the earlier pianos hold more value simply because of the name on the fallboard.

The hard part for the consumer, is to try to make the right choices.

Just like those Yamaha buyers, over 40 years ago....


www.coffee-room.com

Over 1.3M (and counting) posts where pianists discuss everything. And nothing.
#88984 - 01/04/05 09:23 AM Re: George Steck / America Sejung Pianos  
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Posts: 230
Terry_dup1 Offline
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Terry_dup1  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 230
CT
Mr.Egger:

I realize some in a position similar to yours would be reluctant to post here, but I for one appreciate your comments.
Your post was well taken, and i hope we hear from you again, but rest assured few neede to hear from you to realize that your instruments are not junk.

The crudely written remarks in an earlier post don't lend credence to the assertions within them- from posts such as the previous to occasional posts concerning the poster's philosophy of music education and his resulting advice to others, little evidence has come forth regarding the intellect, musicianship, or technical knowledge of the author.

#88985 - 01/04/05 09:55 AM Re: George Steck / America Sejung Pianos  
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 698
WynnBear Offline
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WynnBear  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 698
Dallas, TX
Quote
Originally posted by John Tudor:
Where are RX1's and C1's made?
AFAIK, all C series Yammies and RX series Kawais are made in Japan.


Wynne
#88986 - 01/04/05 12:51 PM Re: George Steck / America Sejung Pianos  
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 153
kraniak Offline
Full Member
kraniak  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 153
SW Florida
Quote
Originally posted by Jolly:

Here's what you are hoping for...

Believe it, or not, at one time, Yamaha was not considered a good piano, just another piece of Made in Japan junk (that's overstating it, I know, but bear with me).

But guys who plunked down their money, and took a chance, got more value for their dollar, than almost anything else in the market. I think that is where we are with the Chinese.

Undoubtedly, some brands are better than others. Some are going to hold up much better than anticipated. Some will not. Some are eventually going to climb the quality (and price) ladder, and a rising tide will lift all boats, making the earlier pianos hold more value simply because of the name on the fallboard.

The hard part for the consumer, is to try to make the right choices.

Just like those Yamaha buyers, over 40 years ago....
Now this, ladies and gentlemen, is hitting the nail precisely on the head with regard to summing up my entire shopping experience. The only thing that could be added to the "Chinese Piano" equation concerns the chronology of it all. What I mean is that at one time, Japanese pianos were junk and went through a period where they transitioned into good pianos. With the Japanese, if you bought too soon, you got a good price but inadequate quality. Too late and the quality was there but the price had come up.

The Chinese are clearly in the midst of such a transition as we speak. The question to me is one of chronology, determining where the Chinese are in this transition, i.e., not buying too soon or too late, but being in that chronological sweet spot where the prices are still great and the quality has arrived. I suspect that while we're not quite there today, it could be as soon as this NAMM show.

Thanks for the insight, Jolly.

#88987 - 01/04/05 01:18 PM Re: George Steck / America Sejung Pianos  
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justme Offline
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justme  Offline
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Englewood, FL
Did you go play it?

#88988 - 01/04/05 01:22 PM Re: George Steck / America Sejung Pianos  
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Norbert Offline
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Kraniak, good post, but it goes even one step further.

Basic fact is that we're simply not getting the gist here in America what's happening over there right now!

My grandfather called it " die gelbe Gefahr" decades ago.

And when the *wake up* call will come one day it's gonna be late!

Much too late. frown

Meantime, keep on all shopping for your *best deals* out there, folks........

norbert


www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642 www.eliteheritagepianos.ca Edmonton, Alta dealers for Estonia,
Brodmann 780-405-8908
#88989 - 01/04/05 04:01 PM Re: George Steck / America Sejung Pianos  
Joined: Aug 2003
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Axtremus Offline
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Axtremus  Offline
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Mr. Gary Egger,

I belief you can upload your PowerPoint presentation using this "file uploader" service: http://www.pianoworld.com/Uploads/fileuploader2.html

After that, simply post the web address (URL) of the uploaded file and we should be able to access it using that web address (URL).

#88990 - 01/04/05 04:59 PM Re: George Steck / America Sejung Pianos  
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 50
Gary Egger Offline
Full Member
Gary Egger  Offline
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Posts: 50
San Francisco, CA
Thanks Axtremus

I did try to upload the powerpoint show but the uploader rejected it because it has extensions.

If the Forum will allow a powerpoint to be uploaded in the future I will certainly try again.

Gary


Gary Egger
Sales Manager
Music Exchange
San Francisco Showroom
415-552-0445
#88991 - 01/04/05 07:02 PM Re: George Steck / America Sejung Pianos  
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 153
kraniak Offline
Full Member
kraniak  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 153
SW Florida
Gary was kind enough to email me the PowerPoint file and he is correct, PW will not allow the upload of this file type. It will, however, allow uploads of Acrobat files, so, I converted it.

Here it is:
http://www.pianoworld.com/Uploads/files/tour.pdf

Use your ENTER key to advance frames.

I hope to see/play one of these tomorrow...

#88992 - 01/04/05 07:22 PM Re: George Steck / America Sejung Pianos  
Joined: Aug 2003
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Axtremus Offline
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Axtremus  Offline
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Thanks to Gary Egger for providing the slides. Thanks to kraniak for doing the conversion and uploading. I enjoy seeing the pictures of the Sejung factory. smile

#88993 - 01/05/05 08:33 AM Re: George Steck / America Sejung Pianos  
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markallen Offline
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markallen  Offline
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Posts: 460
Stanwood, WA
What a wonderful and educational presentation. Thank you Mr. Eggers and big thanx to kraniak as well.


Mark

New sig line in the works....
#88994 - 01/05/05 08:44 AM Re: George Steck / America Sejung Pianos  
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Posts: 153
kraniak Offline
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kraniak  Offline
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SW Florida
Wouldn't it be great to have more of these from different manufacturers? Anyone have any photos from other tours? Perhaps we can start a new thread for tours.

#88995 - 01/05/05 11:08 AM Re: George Steck / America Sejung Pianos  
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Jolly Offline
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Louisiana
There's some M&H stuff floating around somewhere...


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#88996 - 01/05/05 08:58 PM Re: George Steck / America Sejung Pianos  
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Posts: 153
kraniak Offline
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kraniak  Offline
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SW Florida
OK, so getting back to the original subject of George Steck pianos. Remember, it was the owner of the piano store, an hour's drive away, that insisted that these pianos were far better than DongBeis and Pearl Rivers - the best Chinese pianos he'd played. In fact, he emphatically stated that these were in the same class as Kawai RX series and Yamaha C series pianos, a tall claim that garnered much scepticism on this thread. Nevertheless, if this was even remotely possible, it was worth the mileage.

Well, I made the trek this afternoon but I thought it best to stop at another showroom around the corned from the Steck place and play a few Kawai's as a benchmark. This experience furthered my notion that a Kawai of some sort will eventually be my choice.

I then escaped the clutches of the hard-sell sales guy at the Kawai place and went around the corner for the moment of truth at the Steck place. I played the 5'-4" and found it to be precisely in the league of the previously mentioned Chinese pianos, but hey, are we surprised?? :p

I then moved over to a YC PG185 (Pramberger signature series) and was very surprised at this piano. It's tone seemed very unbalanced, having an extreme brightness, even harsh, in the upper mid-range. Most disappointing about this Pramberger was the action. I tend to play with much dynamic range, much of the time in the very soft side of that range. The YC was very inept, compared to the Kawai, not able to deliver the control I needed, ultimately dropping those notes that I wanted to whisper. I suppose that wouldn't matter much if I were a "banger".

So there you have it. Don't get all excited like I did, thinking you can buy a Chinese RX1 for $6500 :rolleyes: The dealer made it up to me though. He invited me to play a really big M&H that sat in a large, dedicated room. Playing this thing absolutely ruined it for everything else I have been evaluating. Monster bass, luscious tone, a wonderful sustain and a real pleasure to play. It made me consider playing the lottery laugh

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