Piano World Home Page Forums Restricted and Archives The Coffee Room Something that really troubles me

That was a great post Larry; everything you said makes sense to me.

Even though I don't see it as such, I get the feeling my upbringing would have been nightmarish or barbaric by current standards. Between the ages of 5 and 10 or so I was smacked/beaten/yelled at on a fairly regular basis when I misbehaved or disboeyed. Had I developed OCD, ADD or something similar, I am pretty sure my father would have knocked it out of me in an afternoon.

David

Dear Larry, I am actually surprised that your child(ren?) grew up past 18. I am also a bit put down by your response, since my fear really isn't all that funny or childish or stupid or idiotic or silly or weird (well, maybe) or dumb or crazy or just completely whacko. In fact, it's something that really bothers be and I'm not really seeking attention at all; I started this thread because I was worried about animals, and didn't want to hurt them. You may call my fear silly and childish but if your son thought that his bowel movements would drown then I guess you should have more compassion for my fear. Well, I don't know what to say. I guess I'd prefer if your didn't post in this thread, or at least think about the expression "if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all." I obviously respect your opinions and see what you have to say but I am so glad Ariel is reaching out to me and really, I find that so kind.

Ariel,
Thank you so much for your reply! I truly appreciate, I really do, your replies. As for the disease you talked about, I don't think I have it. I just have this fear that I indirectly hurt other creatures and thought that here might be a good place to say it, because people may also have similar thoughts, like Jgoo for example. I never really thought that as you said there may be something deeper, and as Larry said it might only be something I developed to hide some greater problem in me, but I've done a lot of thinking and can't think of anything!! After all, I love my family SO much and they are as kind as a family can be. It's hard talking about things like this with somoeone you know so well, so I thank you for reaching out to me.

I will post another response later today when I have more time to think, because soon I have to sign off. But Ariel, once again, thank you for caring (and thank you ALL for caring) and for writing such a long response! Life is so complicated sometimes! AAAARGH!

My warmest regards to all here,
BeePhlat

P.S. as for more about ME, I just turned 16 a week ago, and I live in the United States. Yes I'm in High School, in 10th grade. If there's anything more I can tell you, please don't hesitate to ask!!

Ariel-
You are a very thoughtful and thought-provoking poster.

However, your are treading on dangerous territory in this thread. The propensity is much greater for harm then would be your intention. I don't mean harm to you but to Bflat and perhaps even lurkers. IMO you shouldn't even continue along this path you have started here.

Great post Larry.

The greatest challenge of parenting is instilling common sense into your kids. Rational thinking is not something innate in humans--it has to be learned. Encouraging irrational thought in children leads to unhappy and unproductive lives as kids grow older.

A good kick in the pants could solve 99% of the ADDS problems (and put 99% of the child psychiatrists out of business.)

Dear Gardener and others,
I don't understand why you are not taking me seriously! I have this problem concerning animals and I only wanted some advice on how to not worry so much about them.

Gees everybody, don't get so upset. All I posted this thread was because I ws looking to see whether other people shared the same fear or perhaps help me in trying to overcome it, which Ariel is really helpful in doing.

Really, I meant no harm but to ask about animals and I don't want to harm anyone- that's all.

I did not mean to offend anyone and if you are offended then I apologize- but I meant no harm!

Thank you Ariel, once again!

BPM,

Nobody is "ticked" at you. In fact, the response of this thread is generally positive - people want to see you overcome your fear, they just have different ways of trying to accomplish it.

As for growing up in a difficult time - horsefeathers! There is no such thing as a wonderful time because every era has its' own unique worries and fears.

The key to living a decent life is to worry about the things you can change, and not let things you cannot change overwhelm you. Couple that with a good belief system , and you've about got the problem whipped.

Simple to write, hard to execute. But it can be done.

And look at the bright side about your worries about steak - at your age, I helped kill my own.

The grocery store is much more convenient!

My son was 3 years old. You're 16. Get your head out of your ass and use it. *That* is compassion.

I guess I'd prefer if your didn't post in this thread, or at least think about the expression "if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all."

Did you ask the question because you wanted an answer, or did you ask the question because you wanted everyone to sit around saying "nice things" to you? I don't care whether you want me to post in this thread or not - it's a public forum. You asked for advice, and I gave it to you. You want to ignore the advice, and bask in all the touchy feely stuff. In other words, you're a user looking for attention. Get over it. Just view me as yet another one of those "complications in life".

I just have this fear that I indirectly hurt other creatures and thought that here might be a good place to say it, because people may also have similar thoughts, like Jgoo for example.

Jgoo has his head on straight. Don't try to transfer your psychosis onto others. Deal with it. Go out and beat a rat to death.

I never really thought that as you said there may be something deeper, and as Larry said it might only be something I developed to hide some greater problem in me, but I've done a lot of thinking and can't think of anything!! After all, I love my family SO much and they are as kind as a family can be. It's hard talking about things like this with somoeone you know so well, so I thank you for reaching out to me.

I will post another response later today when I have more time to think, because soon I have to sign off. But Ariel, once again, thank you for caring (and thank you ALL for caring) and for writing such a long response! Life is so complicated sometimes! AAAARGH!

My warmest regards to all here,
BeePhlat

P.S. as for more about ME, I just turned 16 a week ago, and I live in the United States. Yes I'm in High School, in 10th grade. If there's anything more I can tell you, please don't hesitate to ask!!

Apparently no one has taught you how to deal with life. If you think "life is complicated" because you aren't able to figure out that dead meat can't feel things, you are going to have a *real* problem when you have to fend for yourself.

The most compassionate thing I can think of to help you is this: You need your butt kicked. You need someone to make a man out of you. I am willing to do this for you, if you really want to be helped. After I have taught you what it *really* means for meat to hurt, here's what I will do to help you:

I will take away all your possessions, except for the clothes on your back. You will get a corner in the barn to sleep in, and some nice clean hay to make a bed with. Every morning at 5 am I will get you up and take you to work at the local slaughter house gutting hogs. Every night you will get your one meal for the day - one pound of raw hamburger, two pieces of bread, and a match. You will follow this routine until you learn to think like a man, and act like a man.

Every time you complain, I will kick your butt. Every time you mention dead meat feeling pain, I will kick your butt. Every time you act like a little sniveling worm, I will kick your butt. Once you start acting like a normal 16 year old, I will throw you a party, and let you quit your job and go home to momma. I assure you that you will have a completely different view of life when it's over. I will do all this because I am compassionate, and care about what happens to you.

By the way - the party will be at Longhorn's Steakhouse. You'll have the T-bone, rare.

DISCLAIMER: I don't want to get onto anyone's bad side. What I say here is simply my opinion, not fact, and I DON'T want to start any wars with this.

Now that that is said, I would like to say something. BPM, I understand your phobia. I myself have had similar phobias, and some other phobias that are actually (believe or not) more strange. When I was in 8th grade, I refused to eat meat for a very similar reason. I have just been trying to accept to myself that, while I am against animal cruelty, I am not against eating meat. There are ways for animals to be put to death before they are eaten that just simply aren't as cruel as others. Some companies (like the one that McDonald's buys their chicken from) use extremely cruel methods of animal genetic altering: the chickens from that specific farm are injected with a chemical that sky-rockets their growth, and they are kept in cages so small they can't even open up their wings. On top of that, the growth enhancer causes their bodies to grow out of proportion with their legs, causing them to break when they can't hold the weight of the body. If you are REALLY concerned about this issue with animal cruelty, but don't want to discontinue eating meat, I suggest that you find out how different brands deal with their livestock. Then, based on your research, choose the one that you find least cruel.

Larry, I can understand your viewpoint, and I'll probably be flamed for saying that. Some people, like you, I'm guessing, were raised with the slaughter of animals, on a farm, and were "beaten up" every time they whined. I can see that with your posts you are using an underlying theme of humbleness. And perhaps humbleness is a problem with a lot of vegetarians, but probably not any more than any other sub-culture. This is my opinion: most of us (including me) on this post probably live at least decently comfortable and manageable lives. Therefore, it can be difficult for most of us to comprehend the crux and hardships of a *truly* poverished life. However, it doesn't make any sense to me that you should be preaching so harshly to someone who may have a problem with meat, considering, in other venues of your life, you probably have just as many personal preferences, and most of them probably a lot more shallow than an eating habit. Maslow, with his Hierarchy of Needs, stated that the foremost level of human development that needs to be met before any sort of more highly developed emotional stage can be met, is food and shelter. So, even though we all probably have the means to provide for that level, it's no problem, right? Well if BPM is having trouble with that level, it's possible for that problem to be inhibiting or stunting his ability to appreciate other things. Therefore, I don't believe that such a problem is something as shallow and unimportant as you believe.
As for this, I don't think it's necessary to get so rude about it. I'm sure you're enough intelligent to think of a better way to put this, and if not, then you could have just left it out.

Just my two cents' worth.

Larry,

Thank you very much. For those of us in those wayward part of the world who did not understand what on earth compassionate conservatism could mean, now we do now.

There seem to be to approaches on this forum : a compassionate liberal one and a "compassionate" conservatist one.

IMHO, each one of us, compassionates projects big time their need for parenting on BePhlatMinor who seems to be looking for "reparenting".

Let us hope that no harm is done and that no animal is reading this thread. They might have a bad time trying not to laugh and and therefore attract one of their predators (with fangs, claws, guns, you name it!).

BëPhlatMinor and Ariel : watch out you do not engage in a too involved relationship. The goal of the game is autonomy. If a little help goes toward that, well, let us hail Mr Gore who, as everybody knows invented the Internet.

The strange thing seems to be that the most Christians of all seem to be the Old Testament patriarcal, flood them all type and those in favor of meekness and understanding would often be Jewish.

Life is such a weird thing.

Since God seems to have created conservatives and liberals and that each breed seems to find the other one utterly missing one essential part, I would say that God was one who really liked a joke.

And now, ladies and gentleman,...

Steinway ... is that you?

If it isn't then the piano forum are becoming quite the teen age psycho ward.

My friend TomK,

I hope you do not say that because of yourself.

I have the greatest respect for you and your creative personalities. Do not be hard on yourself.



It is true that the idea that BePhlatMinor might be a reincarnation of Steinway crossed my mind.

The Internet has a chilling side : such warmth and opening and such creepy fantasies caused by anonymity.

But it might help most of us (including I hope BePhlat).

The name is Benedict.........Benedictionary, Benedictaphone, Benediction, Benedick test ( a test to determine susceptibility or immunity to Scarlet Fever), Benedictatorial, Benedictatorship of the proletariat, Benedictating machine, Benedictograph, Benedict......... I love your name and I love that you're back Madame la pomme AU bras

Madame la pomme au bras de fer,

I chose that name out of an immense admiration for Baruch Spinoza who chose that name when he was rejected from the Jewish community because he was considered heretical.

I have the same love for Spinoza as for Bach (and I suppose Rembrandt). I am glad you love my name.

I know that you are a very busy woman, but I would like to offer you an important extra job.

Would you accept to be appointed as our sheriff for detecting the incarnations of Steinway ?
The pay is not impressive. But the reward is making this Coffee Room a safer place.

I think it is the last time I will be fooled by Steinway's black hole.

If I thought I could help him, I wouldn't mind the psycho side. But I doubt he is asking for help. Just attention (both negative and positive). And he does get it.

Congratulations, Mrs Wyatt Earp.

Hello BeePhlat,

Just wrote you a letter which like several in the last few days, got accidentally deleted, reminding me that one reason I want to hold back posting here is the evaporative nature of the medium! Poof!

No matter, it wasn’t anything like as long as before.

Which is where I began, in fact, expressing concern that the length of that posting may have led to many basic, and I thought clear, points getting lost in the shuffle. I was thinking especially about my strong hint/request that you think about what responsible adults you might seek out where you are, instead of in cyber-space.

Can you think of anybody to start with? And what are the chances that your family might be able to swing some kind of counseling for you so you have somebody to talk to outside the family? (Even with the most sympathetic parents - sometimes they just care too much to listen objectively!). Is this an option financially? Do you think they would be open to that, if it seemed like a good idea?

I think it is very important for you to explore your feelings with somebody, and having read the astonishing level of attacks on you, I have concluded that it is really not possible or desirable for you to continue to seek out support and understanding here.

Wherever they are “coming from”, these angry posters have certainly highlighted one thing - the main purpose of this Forum is for information and help in the areas of Pianos or Piano Playing/Music. The Coffee Room is kind of a free-for-all, populated mostly by adults who are not there to lend a sympathetic ear to your kind of situation. Quite the opposite, in fact. It is hard for me to tune them out (I guess there is that wanting to “explain” and "defend” - even give tit-for-tat - response that can keep things going, in the wrong way), and I am afraid you may take them too much to heart. It would certainly get to me.

Before coming back to your thread, I spent a little time searching Google, and I see that (as a family member suggested) there are lots and lots of “Mental Health” chat rooms, IRC’s, forums and message boards, some even aimed just at “teens” (which has pros and cons). If you go there, you might want to click onto “Anxiety” or “Phobia” or even just “General topics” (they usually make you choose).

There are two drawbacks to continuing to seek support on the Internet, however - in the framework I suggested. The first is that everybody there has problems, and that’s the main thing they have in common (instead of say, music, or current events). However, lots of people have problems - most do, in fact, at some point in their lives (I mean mental health kinds), and at least there, you won’t attract so much flak.. Then, as a musician, you can stick to less emotional issues at Piano World…There is the danger too that you will get “known” here for this fear thing, and it will influence your ability to be listened to about your musical interests.

The other drawback is the one I keep harping on (please glance at my earlier post, Gardner, if you are around and still concerned) - that the Internet is not a replacement for real-time, flesh and blood contact with somebody on the spot where you are!!! Please take this seriously, even if you shift your original question to one of the ‘Net spots where you will find a far more understanding and knowledgeable community to deal with this fear and others. You can, of course, also get incorrect information and advice, as well as meeting with other unruly or unhealthy posters - but no worse, I feel sure, than here.

I was writing at such length before, because I was trying to cover as much territory as possible, hopefully, prior to “easing out“ - to a large extent because of my other responsibilities.

I know your worries are very real, so, please let me (and other concerned visitors to your thread) know what direction you are taking! But overall - please get out of the way of the missiles aimed at you on this Forum. I’ll be waiting to hear…

Ariel

Ariel,

If BePhlat is Steinway (which I am convinced of), you cannot understand till you have been swallowed in a black hole.

I have been involved and tried sincerely to help as I would have done to my children or anybody looking really for help.

And then there was an incredible freak out in the Coffee Room which made the whole forum fear for its survival.

You think I am exaggerating ?

Ask the survivors.

There is something phony about BePhlat.

If I am wrong, BPhlat, please accept my apologies.

If I am not wrong, I hope nothing bad happens to you.

I feel sorry that you do not really want help but choose to act out on us instead.

I hope you outgrow this cybermadness and become the person you would like to be.

And please, do not take advantage on Ariel's kind heart. Unless it is to teach her the delicate balance between intimacy and self protection.

Ariel, I would like you to allow your wicked and selfish side to show more on this forum. It would give even more "relief" to your goodness which we all appreciate a lot.

PERSONAL STORY
Many years ago, I went to a chinese butchery and saw a dead pig getting cut up; I resolved to never eat meat again. I thought becoming a vegetarian was good morally and for health reasons (47% of Australians die from Heart Disease).

Next day I was eating lasagne and veal.
Taste vs. Animals & Personal Health...
Taste vs. Animals & Personal Health...

Sometimes you just have to prioritise.

As one wise man said "I'd rather die early than to eat tofu"... not that I mind tofu, but you get the picture

Ariel....dear..... I like you a lot, I really do. You have so much fun here, and that's what it's all about. I like reading your posts, because you put so much thought into them - you're a good person.

But you're being sucked in by a troll.

I know from what you've said previously that you are fairly new to internet forums, so you don't have a lot of experience with them. Most of us do though. There are no "angry posters" here..... we just see what's going on, and are making fun of it.

That said, if in fact the guy *was* really this nuts, while your intentions are good, you are doing the wrong thing by enabling him. I enjoy reading your posts and seeing you having fun here. I don't want to see you being taken advantage of by a troll, because you are putting your heart into this thing, and he's laughing at you for it. Think about it, Ariel..... he claims he thinks meat can feel him eating it...... how phony can you get?

Sit back and watch this one unfold.

Just for the record, I was never "beaten up" as a child, nor did I "beat up" my own children. But they knew what I meant when I said I was going to "kick their butts". Go back and read the list of things I told this kid I would put him through. Does any of it describe my physically beating on him? No. Is his butt getting kicked? Yes.

The kid is a troll. If he's not, he's nuttier than a fruitcake, and we can't help him here. And if he's that nuts, he needs cold water thrown in his face and he needs medical attention, *not* a bunch of well meant but misguided "touchy feely" hand holding rewarding him for his actions.

Now.... as far as the farm and animal killing thing..... I'm half Cherokee. We buy our meat at Kroger......

Larry,

Half a Cherokee is better than no Cherokee at all as we say here.

But I keep wondering : what is the other part ?
Cossack ? Prussian ?



And please do not tell us that you understood first that it was a trollish thread.

You were fooled as much as we liberal compassionates were.

The winner is Iron Arm Apple: she should be our sheriff.

This troll is a very bright kid.
I suppose while he is trolling us, he is not putting viruses or Trojan horses in millions of companies or top security agencies.

Every cloud has a silver lining
(old Sioux saying)