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#870255 - 04/09/03 12:02 AM Re: Jolly, Jbryan, and Larry  
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piqué Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by Larry:
Isn't freedom a wonderful thing, Pique?

Aren't you glad that men like Gryphon's son have the courage and foresight to be willing to defend it for us?

I sure am. Thanks, Gryphon, for your contribution. And send a salute to your son for me.

Hooah!
you know larry, you are an unabashed romantic about this whole thing. as you know, we don't see it the same way. to me, this is not about freedom or defending it. i sincerely wish that gryphon's son will stay safe and out of harm's way and be returned to his family unharmed. i wish him and his family the best.


piqué

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#870256 - 04/09/03 07:30 AM Re: Jolly, Jbryan, and Larry  
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DT Offline
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I believe that, for the Iraqi people, this is about freedom.

btw my nephew on the Constellation says that they'll be heading back to the states soon and that the ship will be decommissioned.


Through clever and constant application of propaganda, people can be made to see paradise as heck...
#870257 - 04/09/03 07:59 AM Re: Jolly, Jbryan, and Larry  
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LP,

Quote
to me, this is not about freedom or defending it.
To me, it has everything to do with freedom and defending it. That is the very essence of what this war is all about.

#870258 - 04/09/03 09:59 AM Re: Jolly, Jbryan, and Larry  
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The pictures on TV this morning showing the people of Baghdad tearing down a statue of Sadaam with sledgehammers and ropes say it all. smile


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Over 1.3M (and counting) posts where pianists discuss everything. And nothing.
#870259 - 04/09/03 10:05 AM Re: Jolly, Jbryan, and Larry  
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Yes - it is about freedom. And with all the love and concern I can muster, the fact that you don't see it as being about freedom, Pique, is one big reason why I keep telling you the politics of the Left are bankrupt. All over the Arab world today, they are getting to watch as Iraqi people throw flowers at the feet ot the American and British soldiers, and listen as they praise the men and women who have set them free. As one old Iraqi man was quoted as saying, "We are Americans! We love you America! Thank you for saving us!"


Life isn't measured by the breaths you take. Life is measured by the things that left you breathless
#870260 - 04/09/03 11:26 AM Re: Jolly, Jbryan, and Larry  
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Dwain Lee Offline
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gryphon, thank your son for me!

#870261 - 04/09/03 11:30 AM Re: Jolly, Jbryan, and Larry  
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BTW, did anyone see the man crying, shouting, "Thank, you, thank you Mr. Bush!" and the sign carried by an Iraqi that said, "Go Home Human Shields"?

#870262 - 04/09/03 12:04 PM Re: Jolly, Jbryan, and Larry  
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Quote
Dwain:
BTW, did anyone see the man crying, shouting, "Thank, you, thank you Mr. Bush!" and the sign carried by an Iraqi that said, "Go Home Human Shields"?
Yes, I saw one large banner that read:
"Go Home Human Shields - You Are U.S. Wankers"

What's a "wanker" ??

#870263 - 04/09/03 12:23 PM Re: Jolly, Jbryan, and Larry  
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Dwain Lee Offline
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If no one has emailed you to explain the term yet, I just sent you an explanation.

#870264 - 04/09/03 12:23 PM Re: Jolly, Jbryan, and Larry  
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Interesting that I'm reading a civil war novel where they repeatedly make the point that the US Union soldiers are fighting a war for the freedom of others as opposed to fighting for land, something never before seen. It seems to be an important American trait.

". . .Yes - it is about freedom."

#870265 - 04/09/03 12:41 PM Re: Jolly, Jbryan, and Larry  
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i haven't seen any of the images you all are describing because i don't watch television. just the local paper and the news on the internet. i will check it out and report back my impressions.

i would be absolutely thrilled if it turned out this war was for a good cause!


piqué

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#870266 - 04/09/03 12:59 PM Re: Jolly, Jbryan, and Larry  
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Larry,

Quote
Quoting Larry in response to Pique. Yes - it is about freedom. And with all the love and concern I can muster, the fact that you don't see it as being about freedom, Pique, is one big reason why I keep telling you the politics of the Left are bankrupt.
Considering that I am a Democrat, who voted for Al Gore, and in light of my support for the war in Iraq, would you call me one of those "bankrupt" Lefties? wink

#870267 - 04/09/03 01:27 PM Re: Jolly, Jbryan, and Larry  
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Dwain,

Received your email with the definition.

I can see why this word did not show up in my dictionary. . .

So, it's "Willy Wonka" and not. . . ?

laugh

#870268 - 04/09/03 04:17 PM Re: Jolly, Jbryan, and Larry  
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Larry Offline
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Deep in Cherokee Country
Quote
Originally posted by bcarey:
Larry,

Quote
Quoting Larry in response to Pique. Yes - it is about freedom. And with all the love and concern I can muster, the fact that you don't see it as being about freedom, Pique, is one big reason why I keep telling you the politics of the Left are bankrupt.
Considering that I am a Democrat, who voted for Al Gore, and in light of my support for the war in Iraq, would you call me one of those "bankrupt" Lefties? wink
No. I'd call you a Democrat - but one with some hope...... wink


Life isn't measured by the breaths you take. Life is measured by the things that left you breathless
#870269 - 04/09/03 04:25 PM Re: Jolly, Jbryan, and Larry  
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Quote
Posted by pique: i haven't seen any of the images you all are describing because i don't watch television. just the---
---Ba'ath Times, Le Monde and the Daily Worker are all I read.

#870270 - 04/10/03 08:07 AM Re: Jolly, Jbryan, and Larry  
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I don't think any of them has written this story yet...
Quote
U.S. Marines have located an underground nuclear complex near Baghdad that apparently went unnoticed by U.N. weapons inspectors.

Hidden beneath the Iraqi Atomic Energy Commission's Al-Tuwaitha facility, 18 miles south of the capital, is a vast array of warehouses and bombproof offices that could contain the "smoking gun" sought by intelligence agencies, reported the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review.

"I've never seen anything like it, ever," said Marine Capt. John Seegar. "How did the world miss all of this? Why couldn't they see what was happening here?"

Marine nuclear and intelligence experts say that at least 14 buildings at Al-Tuwaitha indicate high levels of radiation and some show lethal amounts of nuclear residue, according to the Pittsburgh daily. The site was examined numerous times by U.N. weapons inspectors, who found no evidence of weapons of mass destruction.

"They went through that site multiple times, but did they go underground? I never heard anything about that," said physicist David Albright, a former International Atomic Energy Agency inspector in Iraq from 1992 to 1997.

In a 1999 report, Albright said, "Iraq developed procedures to limit access to these buildings by IAEA inspectors who had a right to inspect the fuel fabrication facility."

"On days when the inspectors were scheduled to visit, only the fuel fabrication rooms were open to them," he said in the report, written with Khidhir Hamza, an Iraqi nuclear engineer who defected in 1994. "Usually, employees were told to take to their rooms so that the inspectors did not see an unusually large number of people."

Chief Warrant Officer Darrin Flick, the battalion's nuclear, biological and chemical warfare specialist, said radiation levels were particularly high at a place near the complex where local residents say the "missile water" is stored in mammoth caverns.

"It's amazing," Flick said. "I went to the off-site storage buildings, and the rad detector went off the charts. Then I opened the steel door, and there were all these drums, many, many drums, of highly radioactive material."

Iraq began to develop its nuclear program at Al-Tuwaitha in the 1970s, according to the Institute for Science and International Security. Israel destroyed a French-built reactor there in 1981 and a reactor built by the Russians was destroyed during the 1991 Gulf War.

Hamza testified before Congress last August that if left unchecked, Iraq could have had nuclear weapons by 2005.

Noting that the ground in the area is muddy and composed of clay, Hamza was surprised to learn of the Marines' discovery, the Tribune-Review said. He wondered if the Iraqis went to the colossal expense of pumping enough water to build the subterranean complex because no reasonable inspector would think anything might be built underground there.

"Nobody would expect it," Hamza said. "Nobody would think twice about going back there."

Michael Levi of the Federation of American Scientists said the Iraqis continued rebuilding the Al-Tuwaitha facility after weapons inspections ended in 1998.

"I do not believe the latest round of inspections included anything underground, so anything you find underground would be very suspicious," said Levi. "It sounds absolutely amazing."

The Pittsburgh paper said nuclear scientists, engineers and technicians, housed in a plush neighborhood near the campus, have fled, along with Baathist party loyalists.

"It's going to take some very smart people a very long time to sift through everything here," said Flick. "All this machinery. All this technology. They could do a lot of very bad things with all of this."

Marine Capt. Seegar said his unit will continue to hold the nuclear site until international authorities can take over. Last night, they monitored gun and artillery battles by U.S. Marines against Iraqi Republican Guards and Fedayeen terrorists.

The offices underground are replete with videos and pictures that indicate the complex was built largely over the last four years, the Tribune-Review said.
Original Pittsburgh Tribune-Review article this was written from:

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/tribune-review/specialreports/iraq/s_128200.html


"If we lose freedom here, there's no place to escape to."
MSU - the university of Michigan!
Wheels
#870271 - 04/10/03 08:50 AM Re: Jolly, Jbryan, and Larry  
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gryphon,

That story deserves it's own thread. You should post it where more will see it.

Those who still don't think we should be there need the enlightenment. wink


There are few joys in life greater than the absence of pain.
#870272 - 04/10/03 09:29 AM Re: Jolly, Jbryan, and Larry  
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I thought about it, but too many new posts pushes the threads down towards the bottom where no one reads any more. This seems to be a good, active thread still. I dunno...now I'm so confused. This is a grey area. What do I do?! What do I do?! Ack!!! laugh


"If we lose freedom here, there's no place to escape to."
MSU - the university of Michigan!
Wheels
#870273 - 04/10/03 10:15 AM Re: Jolly, Jbryan, and Larry  
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That can't possibly be true Gryphon, you know this whole Bagdad liberation is a figment of the right. Haven't you been listening to the Saddam's press release guy?


accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)
#870274 - 04/10/03 10:17 AM Re: Jolly, Jbryan, and Larry  
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My bad.


"If we lose freedom here, there's no place to escape to."
MSU - the university of Michigan!
Wheels
#870275 - 04/10/03 12:09 PM Re: Jolly, Jbryan, and Larry  
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What's all this talk I hear about IKEA inspectors? I mean, are these really the people we want trying to find weapons in Iraq? I think our soldiers and scientists are better people to find those sorts of things, aren't they? I'm sure they know all about how smooth those nice laminated tables should be, and whether those cute little cam-lock fasteners are tight enough, or if the meatballs in the cafeteria are fresh. But just what good would they be, wandering around in Baghdad looking for nerve gas and such?

And besides, why are we so worried about these Weapons of Math Destruction anyway? This whole idea is silly. You can't destroy math. My goodness, just because somebody drops a bomb on a set of flash cards, two plus two is still going to equal four!

What? It's not? It's... Oh.

Never mind.

#870276 - 04/10/03 12:41 PM Re: Jolly, Jbryan, and Larry  
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FoxNews verification follow-up:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,83821,00.html

Quote
BAGHDAD, Iraq — U.S. officials are investigating a massive underground nuclear facility that was discovered below the Al Tuwaitha complex of the Iraqi Atomic Energy Commission in a suburban town south of Baghdad.


"If we lose freedom here, there's no place to escape to."
MSU - the university of Michigan!
Wheels
#870277 - 04/10/03 12:47 PM Re: Jolly, Jbryan, and Larry  
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I keep looking for this story in Al jazeera and it just isn't there. confused

We can be fairly certain that these high levels of radiation are not due to pesticides. :p


Better to light one small candle than to curse the %&#$@#! darkness. :t:
#870278 - 04/10/03 01:09 PM Re: Jolly, Jbryan, and Larry  
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No, no, any fool can see it's just an innocent smoke detector factory!

#870279 - 04/10/03 01:17 PM Re: Jolly, Jbryan, and Larry  
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It took me a while to get the IKEA/IAEA connection and the Roseanne Rosannadanna reference. Sometimes I'm just slow. laugh


"If we lose freedom here, there's no place to escape to."
MSU - the university of Michigan!
Wheels
#870280 - 04/10/03 01:56 PM Re: Jolly, Jbryan, and Larry  
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Dwain

LOL!!!

That was excellent!


WMD = Words of Mass Distortion
----------------------
Seek those who seek the truth.
Avoid those who have found it.
#870281 - 04/10/03 02:24 PM Re: Jolly, Jbryan, and Larry  
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I have great admiration for pique but I simply cannot help myself...

If, and I do mean if, that story is true, I'm highly disappointed in Saddam. I never believe anything written on the internet.

Sorry, I just had to say it.

Derick


Don't worry about people stealing your ideas. If your ideas are any good, you'll have to ram them down people's throats.
#870282 - 04/10/03 02:28 PM Re: Jolly, Jbryan, and Larry  
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Quote
Originally posted by gryphon:
It took me a while to get the IKEA/IAEA connection and the Roseanne Rosannadanna reference. Sometimes I'm just slow. laugh
Gryph, I think that was Gilda's Emily Lotilla character Dwain cleverly imitated.

Hey Dwain, could you do a Roseanne Roseannadanna skit? And maybe work in her uncle, Carlos Santana Roseanne Roseannadanna?

Derick


Don't worry about people stealing your ideas. If your ideas are any good, you'll have to ram them down people's throats.
#870283 - 04/10/03 02:50 PM Re: Jolly, Jbryan, and Larry  
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Quote
Originally posted by Derick:
I have great admiration for pique but I simply cannot help myself...

If, and I do me if, that story is true, I'm highly disappointed in Saddam. I never believe anything written on the internet.

Sorry, I just had to say it.

Derick
I apologize for laughing when I read the above. It was inconsiderate of me completely showing my lack of couth.


Through clever and constant application of propaganda, people can be made to see paradise as heck...
#870284 - 04/10/03 03:13 PM Re: Jolly, Jbryan, and Larry  
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Quote
Originally posted by Derick:
Gryph, I think that was Gilda's Emily Lotilla character Dwain cleverly imitated.
I do believe you're right. It's been so long...gad we're getting old.


"If we lose freedom here, there's no place to escape to."
MSU - the university of Michigan!
Wheels
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