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Re: Supersecret message for homosexuals #869795
09/17/04 09:57 AM
09/17/04 09:57 AM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,749
Chicago
kluurs Offline
3000 Post Club Member
kluurs  Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,749
Chicago
I can understand homosexuals having some biblical problems - but so does virtually everyone else... Jesus is pretty clear that thinking lustful thoughts is sinful. Masturbation is sinful. Birth control is sinful. Our nature is one of sin. Making sex a priority before one's relationship with God is sinful -- but how many heterosexuals worry about this? So if I'm sinning on a similar plain as others, why should I get my briefs in a bundle over this issue?

Some heterosexuals assume that whatever feels good is good - and will certainly be good with God - because..."uh..afterall, God's a reasonable guy - just like me...and heck, why would he let me have all this sexual desire of a woman if he didn't want me to act on it?"

Why can't homosexuals think similar thoughts?

Maybe it is sinful to put lust before one's relation with God - but is that the exclusive provence of gays? I think not.

Loving one's neighbor...as one's self, as one would love one's own child. How many of us achieve this? How many of us put our relationship with God ahead of the search for wealth and confort for ourselves and our families?

I don't see the need to worry about others' sins when I'm on such a good rampage by myself.

Ken

Piano & Music Accessories
Re: Supersecret message for homosexuals #869796
09/17/04 10:17 AM
09/17/04 10:17 AM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,484
Improviso Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Improviso  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,484
Quote
Originally posted by kluurs:
Jesus is pretty clear that thinking lustful thoughts is sinful. Masturbation is sinful. Birth control is sinful. Our nature is one of sin. Making sex a priority before one's relationship with God is sinful
Ahh cursing Not only am I going to heck, I'm going to heck's basement. eek

Re: Supersecret message for homosexuals #869797
09/17/04 10:24 AM
09/17/04 10:24 AM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,749
Chicago
kluurs Offline
3000 Post Club Member
kluurs  Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,749
Chicago
Quote
Originally posted by Improviso:
Quote
Originally posted by kluurs:
[b]Jesus is pretty clear that thinking lustful thoughts is sinful. Masturbation is sinful. Birth control is sinful. Our nature is one of sin. Making sex a priority before one's relationship with God is sinful
Ahh cursing Not only am I going to heck, I'm going to heck's basement. eek [/b]
Fortunately, Prambergers are seasoned for that climate...

wink

Re: Supersecret message for homosexuals #869798
09/17/04 10:42 AM
09/17/04 10:42 AM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 6,964
The Evergreen State (WA)
jodi Offline
6000 Post Club Member
jodi  Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 6,964
The Evergreen State (WA)
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

You guys are cheering me up already.

smile Jodi

(Oh, and awesome post, Ken - the one before the heck's basement one. thumb )

Re: Supersecret message for homosexuals #869799
09/17/04 11:56 AM
09/17/04 11:56 AM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 5,934
Tom--K Offline
5000 Post Club Member
Tom--K  Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 5,934
Quote
Originally posted by kluurs:
Fortunately, Prambergers are seasoned for that climate...

wink
That Ken, was brilliant. laugh

Re: Supersecret message for homosexuals #869800
09/17/04 06:13 PM
09/17/04 06:13 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 11,678
Okemos, MI
gryphon Offline OP
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
gryphon  Offline OP
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 11,678
Okemos, MI
Quote
Originally posted by kluurs:
I can understand homosexuals having some biblical problems - but so does virtually everyone else.
While I would disagree with a few of your examples, the larger point is that I think most Christians, and non-Christians alike who define a particular wrong, would admit to doing the wrong, not rationalize it. But I am only replying to your post and this is going in a direction that I did not intend for this thread to go--I wanted to stay away from something argumentative, from a debate.

I want to try to see the issue from their various points of view (again, within the framework of my question). That's why I only asked for their input. I was hoping that they would be interested in explaining their positions.


"If we lose freedom here, there's no place to escape to."
MSU - the university of Michigan!
Wheels
Re: Supersecret message for homosexuals #869801
09/18/04 08:11 AM
09/18/04 08:11 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2
Q
QuietGuy Offline
Junior Member
QuietGuy  Offline
Junior Member
Q

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2
Quote
Originally posted by gryphon:
Three questions:

a) If you are homosexual, do you believe there is a God?

b) If you are homosexual and believe there is a God, from where do you get your notion of a God? (e.g. the Bible, the Koran, an innate feeling, etc.)

c) If you are homosexual and believe there is a God, why do you think God made you this way?

(FYI, I will not denigrate any opinions).
I generally avoid the Coffee Room, but some recent threads have prompted me to dip my toes into the pool, so to speak. Unfortunately, I do not feel comfortable revealing myself, so I am using a pseudonym.

A. Yes, I do believe in God. Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior, as I accepted Him into my heart when I was eleven. So, I am the rare creature, an evangelical who can admit he is homosexual. My father is a retired pastor, so I grew up in a strict, but loving, Christian home.

B. The Bible is my primary source for my beliefs about God. In addition, I just feel inately that God exists.

C. I have absolutely no idea why God made me this way. I simply accept this is who I am.

As a gay man, I try to avoid the "We're Here, We're Queer" crowd. That is not my style. I have a wonderful job. Like my father, I had a calling. My calling is to the classroom and for more than 20 years I have helped educate young minds to prepare them to be productive citizens.

Sadly, if it were discovered I am gay, I could possibly lose my job, even though my sexual orientation has nothing to do with my job performance. No, the administration wouldn't use "gay" as the excuse for termination, but they would find a way to let me go. It has happened to a couple of gay colleagues in the past, so I just keep my private life private from co-workers, as well as my students. [Plus, I don't believe that anybody's personal life should be shared in the classroom! Just my 2 cents, thank you.]

Would I change who I am? I don't think so. Since childhood, I knew that I was "different" but I didn't know what it was called until I was a teen. I've been through counseling and had many people pray for my "rescue" from the "homosexual lifestyle." But, sadly it doesn't work, at least for me. I truly believe I was born this way and will die this way. The one thing that makes me sorrowful is my father. I love him very much, but I don't feel reciprocal feelings. He has called me a vile, wicked person. In his mind, he cannot fathom that his son is gay. We only see each other briefly a couple of times a year, and the meetings can be quite tense. I guess THAT would be the one thing I would change -- that my father accept me for what I am.

I live a quiet life, for the most part celibate.
I go to church each Sunday. In fact, I am one of the pianists. I keep in the closet, out of respect to my father (as he is well-known within the denomination).

Re: Supersecret message for homosexuals #869802
09/18/04 08:29 AM
09/18/04 08:29 AM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 6,964
The Evergreen State (WA)
jodi Offline
6000 Post Club Member
jodi  Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 6,964
The Evergreen State (WA)
Quote
Originally posted by QuietGuy:
I guess THAT would be the one thing I would change -- that my father accept me for what I am.

I live a quiet life, for the most part celibate.
I go to church each Sunday. In fact, I am one of the pianists. I keep in the closet, out of respect to my father (as he is well-known within the denomination).
This makes me cry. I am so sorry.

Jodi

Re: Supersecret message for homosexuals #869803
09/18/04 08:35 AM
09/18/04 08:35 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2
Q
QuietGuy Offline
Junior Member
QuietGuy  Offline
Junior Member
Q

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2
Quote
Originally posted by jodi:
This makes me cry. I am so sorry.

Jodi
Thanks, but no need to cry. I've done enough of that over the years. frown

Re: Supersecret message for homosexuals #869804
09/18/04 10:44 AM
09/18/04 10:44 AM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 7,051
K
kenny Offline
7000 Post Club Member
kenny  Offline
7000 Post Club Member
K

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 7,051
Quiet guy
I feel for you.

I hope you are able to make the happiest life possible for yourself.

Thanks for opening up.

Re: Supersecret message for homosexuals #869805
09/18/04 11:46 AM
09/18/04 11:46 AM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 2,948
New York
Jeffrey Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Jeffrey  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 2,948
New York
Quiet Guy - You don't have to live like this in your father's shadow. You can move elsewhere, to a different job where you don't have to hide, and to a different community. I hope you look at your choices fully. American offers a lot of choices in where to live, what job to have, and who to associate with. Take some chances. You don't sound happy with your current situation.

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