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Re: Supersecret message for homosexuals #869785
09/12/04 09:53 AM
09/12/04 09:53 AM
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Posts: 135
Netherlands
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pqdtw Offline
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Great post, 'I am Gay." I agree with you 100%.

Now, can someone tell me why there are so many homophobes on the Piano Forum???? When I went to Conservatory, we were hard pressed to find any straight gays in the Piano Department--faculty or students!

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Re: Supersecret message for homosexuals #869786
09/12/04 09:55 AM
09/12/04 09:55 AM
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Posts: 135
Netherlands
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pqdtw Offline
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laugh laugh oops! ha

I meant straight GUYS! not gays... that would be another thread...

Re: Supersecret message for homosexuals #869787
09/12/04 10:04 AM
09/12/04 10:04 AM
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Posts: 5,934
Tom--K Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by pqdtw:


Now, can someone tell me why there are so many homophobes on the Piano Forum????
We all don't live in Holland and have the opportunity like you do to put our finger in a dike. laugh

Re: Supersecret message for homosexuals #869788
09/12/04 10:11 AM
09/12/04 10:11 AM
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Posts: 135
Netherlands
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pqdtw Offline
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Quote

We all don't live in Holland and have the opportunity like you do to put our finger in a dike.
Ha, ha. Touché, Tom.

Incidentally, I am an American and did spend my first 33 years of life in America and the story that we all know about Hans Brinker and the finger in the dike is completely not known by Dutch people. If you mention that story to them, they have no idea what you're talking about. Or, those who have been asked this by every American tourist know of the story, but only because the American tourist told them the story....

Re: Supersecret message for homosexuals #869789
09/12/04 10:15 AM
09/12/04 10:15 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,838
Canada
katie_dup1 Offline
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Canada
I am gay:
I appreciate what you say. Thank you for posting your thoughts & feelings.

Re: Supersecret message for homosexuals #869790
09/12/04 10:20 AM
09/12/04 10:20 AM
Joined: Dec 2003
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Tom--K Offline
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pqdtw,

Lucky you're an American. That is a pretty good story. smile Well, welcome to the Piano Forum.

Re: Supersecret message for homosexuals #869791
09/12/04 10:42 AM
09/12/04 10:42 AM
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Posts: 135
Netherlands
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pqdtw Offline
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Thanks for the welcome, Tom. smile

I've been here for awhile on the Piano Forum. I've just been passing under the radar for a long time, which is something we gay people are used to... :rolleyes:

Re: Supersecret message for homosexuals #869792
09/12/04 10:46 AM
09/12/04 10:46 AM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 5,934
Tom--K Offline
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Tom--K  Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by pqdtw:
Thanks for the welcome, Tom. smile

I've been here for awhile on the Piano Forum. I've just been passing under the radar for a long time, which is something we gay people are used to... :rolleyes:
Cool, I'm gay too, but I'm more of the self hating kind. laugh

Re: Supersecret message for homosexuals #869793
09/12/04 11:07 AM
09/12/04 11:07 AM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,731
Indiana
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lb Offline
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Indiana
I am gay,

Great post!!

"The second theory is that everyone I have met, no matter how perfect their life seems to be, has a cross to bear. A friend of mine has severe arthritis in his mid-thirties. If God gave me the choice of being gay or having arthritis, I'd pick being gay. He would pick arthritis. We may get comfortable with our crosses? Or maybe they aren't crosses at all?"

This is my opinion. We all have a cross to bear, how we bear it is what counts.

lb

Re: Supersecret message for homosexuals #869794
09/17/04 10:43 AM
09/17/04 10:43 AM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 11,678
Okemos, MI
gryphon Offline OP
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Well, it's been a week and only one response so far. "I am gay" has chosen to reply incognito, but that is okay. It doesn't matter who you are, I just wanted truthful answers.

I ask because I don't understand homosexuality issues. And despite what some think here, these discussions do help.

For example, "Is homosexuality a lifestyle choice or are they born that way?" Now many have said that a person is born that way, that no one would choose it. Yet not too many years ago the homosexual community said the exact opposite. Specifically it was when the subject of being able to find a homosexual gene was in the news. Were they honest or did they just fear that if something like that could be identified then those babies would have an increased likelihood of being aborted? And of course there are the stories of those who have left the homosexual lifestyle. Yet some have said those who leave weren't homosexuals to begin with.

"Does God believe that engaging in homosexual behavior is a sin? If so why would He create homosexuals?" Is that question analogous to, "If God is against sin [lying, stealing, cheating] why does He create us with a sinful nature?" God does, yet he tells us not to sin.

So as I try to understand homosexuality in the context of God and religion I wanted input from those who identified themselves as homosexuals. I suspected that most, like Kenny, would not be religious or believe in God. And in the few cases where they said that they did believe in God, I wanted to know where their notion of God came from. If the Bible, how their position could be reconciled with the Bible as they understand it. Unfortunately my sample response here of n=1 is much smaller than I had hoped for, but I do thank "I am gay" for responding sincerely.

As an aside, since writing the original post that started this thread, I learned of a book entitled Slaves, Women & Homosexuals: Exploring the Hermeneutics of Cultural Analysis by William J. Webb that looks like it might be interesting. As I understand it, it attempts to explain and delineate between Biblical passages that are culturally dependent and those that are trans-cultural. From an amazon review, "Every verse dealing with the question of the role of women, slaves and homosexuals has been analyzed." I do not know what the book's conclusions are, though.


"If we lose freedom here, there's no place to escape to."
MSU - the university of Michigan!
Wheels
Re: Supersecret message for homosexuals #869795
09/17/04 10:57 AM
09/17/04 10:57 AM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,748
Chicago
kluurs Offline
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Chicago
I can understand homosexuals having some biblical problems - but so does virtually everyone else... Jesus is pretty clear that thinking lustful thoughts is sinful. Masturbation is sinful. Birth control is sinful. Our nature is one of sin. Making sex a priority before one's relationship with God is sinful -- but how many heterosexuals worry about this? So if I'm sinning on a similar plain as others, why should I get my briefs in a bundle over this issue?

Some heterosexuals assume that whatever feels good is good - and will certainly be good with God - because..."uh..afterall, God's a reasonable guy - just like me...and heck, why would he let me have all this sexual desire of a woman if he didn't want me to act on it?"

Why can't homosexuals think similar thoughts?

Maybe it is sinful to put lust before one's relation with God - but is that the exclusive provence of gays? I think not.

Loving one's neighbor...as one's self, as one would love one's own child. How many of us achieve this? How many of us put our relationship with God ahead of the search for wealth and confort for ourselves and our families?

I don't see the need to worry about others' sins when I'm on such a good rampage by myself.

Ken

Re: Supersecret message for homosexuals #869796
09/17/04 11:17 AM
09/17/04 11:17 AM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,484
Improviso Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by kluurs:
Jesus is pretty clear that thinking lustful thoughts is sinful. Masturbation is sinful. Birth control is sinful. Our nature is one of sin. Making sex a priority before one's relationship with God is sinful
Ahh cursing Not only am I going to heck, I'm going to heck's basement. eek

Re: Supersecret message for homosexuals #869797
09/17/04 11:24 AM
09/17/04 11:24 AM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,748
Chicago
kluurs Offline
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kluurs  Offline
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Chicago
Quote
Originally posted by Improviso:
Quote
Originally posted by kluurs:
[b]Jesus is pretty clear that thinking lustful thoughts is sinful. Masturbation is sinful. Birth control is sinful. Our nature is one of sin. Making sex a priority before one's relationship with God is sinful
Ahh cursing Not only am I going to heck, I'm going to heck's basement. eek [/b]
Fortunately, Prambergers are seasoned for that climate...

wink

Re: Supersecret message for homosexuals #869798
09/17/04 11:42 AM
09/17/04 11:42 AM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 6,964
The Evergreen State (WA)
jodi Offline
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jodi  Offline
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AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

You guys are cheering me up already.

smile Jodi

(Oh, and awesome post, Ken - the one before the heck's basement one. thumb )

Re: Supersecret message for homosexuals #869799
09/17/04 12:56 PM
09/17/04 12:56 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 5,934
Tom--K Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by kluurs:
Fortunately, Prambergers are seasoned for that climate...

wink
That Ken, was brilliant. laugh

Re: Supersecret message for homosexuals #869800
09/17/04 07:13 PM
09/17/04 07:13 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 11,678
Okemos, MI
gryphon Offline OP
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Quote
Originally posted by kluurs:
I can understand homosexuals having some biblical problems - but so does virtually everyone else.
While I would disagree with a few of your examples, the larger point is that I think most Christians, and non-Christians alike who define a particular wrong, would admit to doing the wrong, not rationalize it. But I am only replying to your post and this is going in a direction that I did not intend for this thread to go--I wanted to stay away from something argumentative, from a debate.

I want to try to see the issue from their various points of view (again, within the framework of my question). That's why I only asked for their input. I was hoping that they would be interested in explaining their positions.


"If we lose freedom here, there's no place to escape to."
MSU - the university of Michigan!
Wheels
Re: Supersecret message for homosexuals #869801
09/18/04 09:11 AM
09/18/04 09:11 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2
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QuietGuy Offline
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QuietGuy  Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by gryphon:
Three questions:

a) If you are homosexual, do you believe there is a God?

b) If you are homosexual and believe there is a God, from where do you get your notion of a God? (e.g. the Bible, the Koran, an innate feeling, etc.)

c) If you are homosexual and believe there is a God, why do you think God made you this way?

(FYI, I will not denigrate any opinions).
I generally avoid the Coffee Room, but some recent threads have prompted me to dip my toes into the pool, so to speak. Unfortunately, I do not feel comfortable revealing myself, so I am using a pseudonym.

A. Yes, I do believe in God. Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior, as I accepted Him into my heart when I was eleven. So, I am the rare creature, an evangelical who can admit he is homosexual. My father is a retired pastor, so I grew up in a strict, but loving, Christian home.

B. The Bible is my primary source for my beliefs about God. In addition, I just feel inately that God exists.

C. I have absolutely no idea why God made me this way. I simply accept this is who I am.

As a gay man, I try to avoid the "We're Here, We're Queer" crowd. That is not my style. I have a wonderful job. Like my father, I had a calling. My calling is to the classroom and for more than 20 years I have helped educate young minds to prepare them to be productive citizens.

Sadly, if it were discovered I am gay, I could possibly lose my job, even though my sexual orientation has nothing to do with my job performance. No, the administration wouldn't use "gay" as the excuse for termination, but they would find a way to let me go. It has happened to a couple of gay colleagues in the past, so I just keep my private life private from co-workers, as well as my students. [Plus, I don't believe that anybody's personal life should be shared in the classroom! Just my 2 cents, thank you.]

Would I change who I am? I don't think so. Since childhood, I knew that I was "different" but I didn't know what it was called until I was a teen. I've been through counseling and had many people pray for my "rescue" from the "homosexual lifestyle." But, sadly it doesn't work, at least for me. I truly believe I was born this way and will die this way. The one thing that makes me sorrowful is my father. I love him very much, but I don't feel reciprocal feelings. He has called me a vile, wicked person. In his mind, he cannot fathom that his son is gay. We only see each other briefly a couple of times a year, and the meetings can be quite tense. I guess THAT would be the one thing I would change -- that my father accept me for what I am.

I live a quiet life, for the most part celibate.
I go to church each Sunday. In fact, I am one of the pianists. I keep in the closet, out of respect to my father (as he is well-known within the denomination).

Re: Supersecret message for homosexuals #869802
09/18/04 09:29 AM
09/18/04 09:29 AM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 6,964
The Evergreen State (WA)
jodi Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by QuietGuy:
I guess THAT would be the one thing I would change -- that my father accept me for what I am.

I live a quiet life, for the most part celibate.
I go to church each Sunday. In fact, I am one of the pianists. I keep in the closet, out of respect to my father (as he is well-known within the denomination).
This makes me cry. I am so sorry.

Jodi

Re: Supersecret message for homosexuals #869803
09/18/04 09:35 AM
09/18/04 09:35 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2
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QuietGuy Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by jodi:
This makes me cry. I am so sorry.

Jodi
Thanks, but no need to cry. I've done enough of that over the years. frown

Re: Supersecret message for homosexuals #869804
09/18/04 11:44 AM
09/18/04 11:44 AM
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kenny Offline
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Quiet guy
I feel for you.

I hope you are able to make the happiest life possible for yourself.

Thanks for opening up.

Re: Supersecret message for homosexuals #869805
09/18/04 12:46 PM
09/18/04 12:46 PM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 2,948
New York
Jeffrey Offline
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New York
Quiet Guy - You don't have to live like this in your father's shadow. You can move elsewhere, to a different job where you don't have to hide, and to a different community. I hope you look at your choices fully. American offers a lot of choices in where to live, what job to have, and who to associate with. Take some chances. You don't sound happy with your current situation.

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