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#862889 - 10/22/04 07:48 AM Re: Liberals never win ANY argument!!!  
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RonTuner Online content
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And why is weed more detrimental to society than tobacco?

Why are bribes more detrimental than "incentives"?

Why is stealing more detrimental than legal government land-grabs?

Oh, there's lots of those types of questions floating around

Piano & Music Accessories
#862890 - 10/22/04 07:56 AM Re: Liberals never win ANY argument!!!  
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Phlebas Offline
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New York City
Quote
Originally posted by piqué:

now, is this thread ready to die yet? i can't believe the coffee room has dignified the rantings of this pipsqueak for ten pages. (ok, i can believe it, but can we go on to something else now?)

phlebas, i look forward to debating with you which of us is more brilliant over a good bottle of wine next month in new york. laugh cheers!
Think everyone's pretty much moved on to other things within this thread.

I'll make sure I bring my MENSA membership card, and some brain teasers when we meet. Looking forward to it. Looks like I'm going to Disney World around the 11th though.

#862891 - 10/22/04 07:56 AM Re: Liberals never win ANY argument!!!  
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The 89th Key Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by piqué:
polygamy and incest do harm. homosexuality does not. polygamists and incestuous people have a choice to be monogamous or to find an unrelated partner of their preferred sex.
Where is your proof that they do harm? Do not homosexuals have a higher risk of getting syphilis? Your "harm" argument is pointless.

And this is the main point right here:

Homosexuals say: "I cant help that I love someone of the same sex."

Polygamists say: "I cant help loving more than one person, let us get married too!!!"

Incesters say: "I cant help that I love someone that is related to me, let us marry too!"

confused ???WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE???
confused
According to their rationales, none of them can help who they love, so why, PIQUE, are you going to discriminate against them??

It is a really, really, really simple question.


-The 89th Key [Linked Image]

[Linked Image] www.thecollegecritic.com [Linked Image]
--- Integrity | Loyalty | Simplicity ---
#862892 - 10/22/04 08:01 AM Re: Liberals never win ANY argument!!!  
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ycul - I learnt all about her, what she fought and worked for , the trouble that the UK was in at the time. I didn't grow up ignoring political issues. I've read about her, been taught all the history of her and of her time as prime minister. That is why I know she was our best (in my opinion), and I wouldn't have made that comment if I didn't know who she was, which is what you are implying. No? wink
Just because I wasn't alive at the time of the ancient Greeks doesn't mean I don't have a right to respect them. So why can't I respect her even though I wasn't there for most of her time.
Freedom smile wink


"A print of the score has everything you need to know about the music, except the essential."
#862893 - 10/22/04 08:04 AM Re: Liberals never win ANY argument!!!  
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The 89th Key Offline
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Phlebas, its ok if you cant answer the question, but at least admit it, I dont think MENSA would approve of you running away from a simple question.

Oh, and I could cheapishly mention that I have passed 2 IQ exams falling in the genius/mensa-qualified range too, among many other qualifications that would put you to shame, but hey, I'm not going to drop to that immature level.


OOPS, looks like i just did.. :rolleyes:


-The 89th Key [Linked Image]

[Linked Image] www.thecollegecritic.com [Linked Image]
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#862894 - 10/22/04 08:04 AM Re: Liberals never win ANY argument!!!  
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Larry Offline
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The United States will soon (and i think it is going to be VERY soon) hit their capacity for "freedom"...eventually, if not now, we are going to be standing on the edge of a cliff about to head down an irreversible plunge into unlimited "harmless" freedoms - a plunge that will also tug down our economy, moral fiber, and civilized social structure.


We're already at the edge of the cliff - and the far liberal left that has taken over the democrat party is driving the bus and their foot is on the gas.

It is inevitable, and there must (and I say that with the most critical emphasis on its importance), MUST be a standard set soon.

I agree.


Life isn't measured by the breaths you take. Life is measured by the things that left you breathless
#862895 - 10/22/04 08:06 AM Re: Liberals never win ANY argument!!!  
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piqué Offline
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89th, you are either refusing to look at this with any depth, or you are just too inexperienced to recognize the truth of what i am saying.

you remind me of myself in junior high school, when i insisted to my physics teacher that sex between humans and sex between animals was exactly the same. it's easy to make such assertions when you lack experience and sophistication. (btw, i don't know if i really believed what i was insisting on back then, i just liked making obnoxious and spurious assertions.)

i suspect you are suffering from a similar malady, except that by 22, you should have outgrown it by now. try reading up on the subject and then get back to us.

this ends my dialogue with you on this topic.


piqué

now in paperback:
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Grand Obsession: A Piano Odyssey
#862896 - 10/22/04 08:07 AM Re: Liberals never win ANY argument!!!  
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Larry Offline
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Deep in Cherokee Country
Quote
Originally posted by reblder:
89th key...........

Just keep up with your rants and raves and see how many people will wish to sustain a dialogue with you..................

Zilch!
I don't think that will be a problem for him, Mark. After all, you rant and rave from an even more extreme position than he holds, and people still talk to you.


Life isn't measured by the breaths you take. Life is measured by the things that left you breathless
#862897 - 10/22/04 08:07 AM Re: Liberals never win ANY argument!!!  
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The 89th Key Offline
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Is it too late to get off the bus?? I know us republicans shouldn't be on this bus anyway....it seems a little short. wink

Early congrats on hitting 7K Larry


-The 89th Key [Linked Image]

[Linked Image] www.thecollegecritic.com [Linked Image]
--- Integrity | Loyalty | Simplicity ---
#862898 - 10/22/04 08:09 AM Re: Liberals never win ANY argument!!!  
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Larry Offline
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i suspect you are suffering from a similar malady, except that by 22, you should have outgrown it by now. try reading up on the subject and then get back to us.

Actually, the kid has a point. You may not like the raw manner in which he has presented it, but he has a valid point, nonetheless. Certainly just as valid as the point you choose to believe.


Life isn't measured by the breaths you take. Life is measured by the things that left you breathless
#862899 - 10/22/04 08:11 AM Re: Liberals never win ANY argument!!!  
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piqué Offline
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hey, larry, it wouldn't hurt you to read up on the topic, too. :p


piqué

now in paperback:
[Linked Image]

Grand Obsession: A Piano Odyssey
#862900 - 10/22/04 08:12 AM Re: Liberals never win ANY argument!!!  
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Quote
Originally posted by The 89th Key:
Quote
Originally posted by piqué:
[b] polygamy and incest do harm. homosexuality does not. polygamists and incestuous people have a choice to be monogamous or to find an unrelated partner of their preferred sex.
Where is your proof that they do harm? Do not homosexuals have a higher risk of getting syphilis? Your "harm" argument is pointless.

And this is the main point right here:

Homosexuals say: "I cant help that I love someone of the same sex."

Polygamists say: "I cant help loving more than one person, let us get married too!!!"

Incesters say: "I cant help that I love someone that is related to me, let us marry too!"

confused ???WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE???
confused
According to their rationales, none of them can help who they love, so why, PIQUE, are you going to discriminate against them??

It is a really, really, really simple question. [/b]
OK, one more time. If homosexuals or whoever get syfilis then it's their own fault. Don't you see the difference??? If two (too) closely related people get a child and it has genetic disorders then the parents are to blame, NOT the child itself.


Some can tell you to go to heck in such a manner that you would think you might actually enjoy the trip, but that is far more polite than civil - JBryan
#862901 - 10/22/04 08:12 AM Re: Liberals never win ANY argument!!!  
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The 89th Key Offline
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Its ok Pique, if you want to keep talking about my age rather than making ANY legitimate point, then you go right ahead...it's just making you look more and more foolish and shallow.

Me: fact
You: AGE!
Me: question
You: Ignorant!
Me: Common sense
You: Age!
Me: fact
You: lets talk about having sex with a horse!
Me: Simple Question
You: When is my AARP letter coming?

Grow up and stop avoiding the subject...dont let the door hit you on the way out.


-The 89th Key [Linked Image]

[Linked Image] www.thecollegecritic.com [Linked Image]
--- Integrity | Loyalty | Simplicity ---
#862902 - 10/22/04 08:13 AM Re: Liberals never win ANY argument!!!  
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Larry Offline
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Maybe it would be good if we *both* read up on it, Pique.


Life isn't measured by the breaths you take. Life is measured by the things that left you breathless
#862903 - 10/22/04 08:14 AM Re: Liberals never win ANY argument!!!  
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The 89th Key Offline
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Nunatax, does that apply to polygamy as well? No.

And what if the incest practitioners decide not to have kids, can they still marry?


-The 89th Key [Linked Image]

[Linked Image] www.thecollegecritic.com [Linked Image]
--- Integrity | Loyalty | Simplicity ---
#862904 - 10/22/04 08:15 AM Re: Liberals never win ANY argument!!!  
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oh geez........

Pique shallow and foolish???????? Stick around 89th you have a lot to learn.

BTW I'm a conservative.

#862905 - 10/22/04 08:17 AM Re: Liberals never win ANY argument!!!  
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The 89th Key Offline
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justme, the way that Pique has performed in here by talking about my age rather than making a legitimate point classifies her as shallow and foolish in my opinion.


-The 89th Key [Linked Image]

[Linked Image] www.thecollegecritic.com [Linked Image]
--- Integrity | Loyalty | Simplicity ---
#862906 - 10/22/04 08:17 AM Re: Liberals never win ANY argument!!!  
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Larry,

pique doen't have to read up on it. She lived with a gay uncle and some other gay relative and according to her she is a card carrying expert on the issues of gays.

I do like how she will say that homosexuals are born that way , but not give the same courtesy to polygamists and incestors.

In fact, I bet there is more scientific support for men to have many partners, thus furthering the species than there is for homosexuality. Can't say anything about the incest issue though.

#862907 - 10/22/04 08:21 AM Re: Liberals never win ANY argument!!!  
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Larry Offline
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dont let the door hit you on the way out.

89th, most people here will tell you that I am not one to mince words when doing battle with a democrat liberal. So many will find some irony in my telling you to temper your comments a bit.....

I agree with a lot of what you say, and you have a fire in you for your values that I admire - but you need to be a little more selective with the "don't let the door hit you" stuff. Pique may be a political neophyte standing on the far shadows of the edge of reality in her views, but she's one of our friends. We don't want the door to hit her. Save those sorts of remarks for those who truly deserve it, or you'll end up with everyone telling *you* to hit the door. That would be a shame.


Life isn't measured by the breaths you take. Life is measured by the things that left you breathless
#862908 - 10/22/04 08:24 AM Re: Liberals never win ANY argument!!!  
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Quote
Originally posted by Freedom:
ycul - I learnt all about her, what she fought and worked for , the trouble that the UK was in at the time. I didn't grow up ignoring political issues. I've read about her, been taught all the history of her and of her time as prime minister. That is why I know she was our best (in my opinion), and I wouldn't have made that comment if I didn't know who she was, which is what you are implying. No? wink
Just because I wasn't alive at the time of the ancient Greeks doesn't mean I don't have a right to respect them. So why can't I respect her even though I wasn't there for most of her time.
Freedom smile wink
Freedom,
As we both know, opinions on Margaret Thatcher differ enormously.Therefore, I'm very curious to know on what exactly you base your opinion/knowledge of her. What are your sources? My curiosity is increased by the fact that the overwhelming majority of Scots hate the Tories and have consistently voted Labour since the year dot.

P.S. I certainly wasn't implying that you didn't know who she was.


How now, brown cow.
#862909 - 10/22/04 08:25 AM Re: Liberals never win ANY argument!!!  
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She just said she was leaving, so I was trying to hold the door open for her. This is a forum aimed at having intelligent points exchanged, and if she wants to leave, Ill not lose any sleep.

I enjoy an intelligent conversation over a conversation full of opposing distractions.

Thanks for looking out though Larry


-The 89th Key [Linked Image]

[Linked Image] www.thecollegecritic.com [Linked Image]
--- Integrity | Loyalty | Simplicity ---
#862910 - 10/22/04 08:27 AM Re: Liberals never win ANY argument!!!  
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Quote
Originally posted by The 89th Key:
justme, the way that Pique has performed in here by talking about my age rather than making a legitimate point classifies her as shallow and foolish in my opinion.
IMHO, you're too new to this forum to be so judgmental.

You haven't asked for it but I'm going to give you some "friendly" advice. Open up your mind a little. We all have a lot to learn. I'm, at least, twice your age and will tell you that I'm here to learn from everyone. I think it's wonderful you show such an interest in politics and current events. But, lighten up a little. There are a lot of loony lefties on this forum. Unfortunately you're projecting yourself as a loony right. I say this with empathy.

#862911 - 10/22/04 08:28 AM Re: Liberals never win ANY argument!!!  
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Quote
Originally posted by The 89th Key:
Nunatax, does that apply to polygamy as well? No.

And what if the incest practitioners decide not to have kids, can they still marry?
Question 1 : indeed, no. I never said that either. You blame other people that they don't read what you write, but have you read anything that I wrote???

Question 2 : Perhaps if incest practitioners are forbidden to have kids of their own, one might actually consider the legalisation of such a marriage.


Some can tell you to go to heck in such a manner that you would think you might actually enjoy the trip, but that is far more polite than civil - JBryan
#862912 - 10/22/04 08:29 AM Re: Liberals never win ANY argument!!!  
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justme Offline
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89th,
One more thing. IMHO, you've lost the debate. Your arguments were very good but the issue of the debate became secondary when you started going off the deep end.

#862913 - 10/22/04 08:36 AM Re: Liberals never win ANY argument!!!  
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Wisconsin
Quote
Originally posted by ..the 89th key..:
You could argue being gay increases the chance of getting syphilis, just as you argue that polygamy could leave to domestic violence.

But the potential for something to happen doesn't mean you can outlaw it. Do we outlaw driving because many more people die in car accidents than most other causes? No.
89th,

So, based on that statement, gay marriage should not necessarily be outlawed. Right?

I am about as far from liberal as one gets except when it comes to religion, and civil rights. I subscribe to a mostly libertarian viewpoint.

Based on your statement above, one could surmise that just because allowing gay marriage could lead to the allowance of polygamist and incestuous marriage doesn't automatically mean that it would if fact lead to that.

Quote
Originally posted by ..the 89th key..:
SIMPLY ANSWER THIS:

If you allow gay marriage, and incest practitioners and polygamists have the EXACTY same rationale, then tell me why its still ok to "discriminate" against them.
I will answer your question flat out.

It is OK. Polygamy is a crime. You would need to legalize polygamy first. Incest is a crime in a genetic sense but I am unaware of specific laws against consenting adults from engaging in incest. If there are in fact laws against this then those would also need to be changed. Is homosexuality illegal? I know there are probably many old laws on the books in several states regarding this but I am not about to go researching the law. I have much better things to do with my time.

The federal government has no business meddling in these affairs anyway. It should be a state by state decision to allow or recognize any type of marriage.

In fact, the idea of amending our constitution to deny rights to any citizen or group of citizens, makes me shudder in fear. It only proves how we appear to be so willing to yet again ignore the founding principles of this country.

MarkJ

#862914 - 10/22/04 08:40 AM Re: Liberals never win ANY argument!!!  
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Freedom Offline
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ycul - OK, ok I know. all I was saying was that, from what I know of her, that she was a good leader, thats all. I really don't want to list a whole load of situations that Margaret Thatcher was in and the decisions she took, as we could do that with Labour as well, I was just saying I though she was a good leader. I really don't want to get into a debate about it, if you didn't like her, thats fine enough with me.
I don't think that most of the Scots hate the Tories, but it's true enough that Labour is popular around here.
Freedom smile wink


"A print of the score has everything you need to know about the music, except the essential."
#862915 - 10/22/04 08:47 AM Re: Liberals never win ANY argument!!!  
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tcmod Offline
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Just an aside.....incest, while completely disgusting, has only a slightly higher chance of producing defective offspring than a "normal" union.


one more....89th....a member was recently drummed out of here and banned due to an off color remark. Hopefully the warnings you are receiving are related to the content and not the tone of your messages.

#862916 - 10/22/04 08:48 AM Re: Liberals never win ANY argument!!!  
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Phlebas Offline
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New York City
Quote
Originally posted by The 89th Key:

Oh, and I could cheapishly mention that I have passed 2 IQ exams falling in the genius/mensa-qualified range too, among many other qualifications that would put you to shame, but hey, I'm not going to drop to that immature level.


Don't dislocate your shoulder patting yourself on the back.

Hey, can we all get together, and buy this guy a sense of humor?

#862917 - 10/22/04 08:51 AM Re: Liberals never win ANY argument!!!  
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The 89th Key Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by Nunatax:
Question 1 : indeed, no. I never said that either. You blame other people that they don't read what you write, but have you read anything that I wrote???
What are you talking about? I never said that you said it.

Read it again if you dont mind.

You were talking about incest and reasons against it, but didn't talk about polygamy, so I asked if you thought it applied to polygamy as well.


-The 89th Key [Linked Image]

[Linked Image] www.thecollegecritic.com [Linked Image]
--- Integrity | Loyalty | Simplicity ---
#862918 - 10/22/04 08:56 AM Re: Liberals never win ANY argument!!!  
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The 89th Key Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by markjpcs:
[QB]In fact, the idea of amending our constitution to deny rights to any citizen or group of citizens, makes me shudder in fear.QB]
Do you have any idea how many doors are going to open if you dont want to deny rights to any citizen?

There is chaos-free, and there is civilized-free.

CHAOS-FREE: you are allowed to do anything you want, you shouldn't be repressed by any government in anyway

CIVILIZED-FREE: There are laws that might offend a few people, but it is for the better good of society, the long term.


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[Linked Image] www.thecollegecritic.com [Linked Image]
--- Integrity | Loyalty | Simplicity ---
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