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So your kid tells you he or she is gay... Now what? #839335
11/01/04 01:12 AM
11/01/04 01:12 AM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 3,290
New York
Derick Offline OP
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Derick  Offline OP
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New York
This isn't meant as flame bait, I'm just curious what Tom K., Jolly, Gryphon and Renauda would say if their 20 something year old kid told them they were gay. What would you do?

I'm curious as it happens in, arguably, the best of families; the Cheney's for example. Therefore it could happen in yours. So what would you do?

Derick


Don't worry about people stealing your ideas. If your ideas are any good, you'll have to ram them down people's throats.
Piano & Music Accessories
Re: So your kid tells you he or she is gay... Now what? #839336
11/01/04 03:16 AM
11/01/04 03:16 AM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 276
Stresa, Italy
Mozart1969 Offline
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Stresa, Italy
Take it in my stride.


Je lieber moecht'ich in Himmel sein!
Re: So your kid tells you he or she is gay... Now what? #839337
11/01/04 04:45 AM
11/01/04 04:45 AM
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 871
London
D
Diarmuid2 Offline
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London
God help that kid.

Re: So your kid tells you he or she is gay... Now what? #839338
11/01/04 05:27 AM
11/01/04 05:27 AM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 160
Paris, France.
Ghost of Zephyr Offline
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Ghost of Zephyr  Offline
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Let your kid make his way through life, help him, whether he's gay or not. He's still your kid, you just have to accept what he feels.
That's how I would react, I think.

Re: So your kid tells you he or she is gay... Now what? #839339
11/01/04 06:25 AM
11/01/04 06:25 AM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 808
Bristol, England
sarah_blueparrot Offline
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They'd be lucky in that this is 2004, not 1884. I think in this age, with so many stereotypes being shattered of gay people, the parents themselves should have it in their best interests to forget what it was like to grow up in the 50's, and realise that there is nothing wrong with it, and to support them wherever they can - especially because there will always be those who do not support.


Every time you play a funeral march, the devil grabs a soul.
Re: So your kid tells you he or she is gay... Now what? #839340
11/01/04 06:30 AM
11/01/04 06:30 AM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,340
Massachusetts
BeeLady Offline
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BeeLady  Offline
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Massachusetts
Give him a big hug, kiss him and tell him I love him. In other words, nothing would change. smile


BeeLady

Life is like a roll of toilet paper...the closer you get to the end, the faster it goes!
Re: So your kid tells you he or she is gay... Now what? #839341
11/01/04 06:44 AM
11/01/04 06:44 AM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,161
NY
MusicMagellan Offline
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I know this question is addressed to specific people. But since others have joined in, I'll take that liberty also.

I'd love them no more than my other kids, but I'd display my love for them more because I'd feel they would especially need to feel my support. I say that because that's what my wife and I have done instinctively when specific children have needed extra support at various times in their lives.

(The truth is that is a no brainer. I didn't have to think about that more than a microsecond. And I'd also say that any parent who wouldn't think that way had better use that as a clue to reexamine themselves. Sounds self-righteous on my part? Frankly, I don't give a flying you know what how it might sound.)


(watch this space)
Re: So your kid tells you he or she is gay... Now what? #839342
11/01/04 07:01 AM
11/01/04 07:01 AM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,400
Northern Virginia
The 89th Key Offline
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The 89th Key  Offline
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I would react the same way as if my kid came home from college and was an alcoholic.

I wouldn't love the kid any less, but I would work with him, whether in support groups, church, whatever need be to get over that hurdle.

I think alcoholism, homosexuality, animal cruelness,(anything along those lines is my point), is simply a subconscious psychological disorder that can be treated, reversed, cured, etc...


-The 89th Key [Linked Image]

[Linked Image] www.thecollegecritic.com [Linked Image]
--- Integrity | Loyalty | Simplicity ---
Re: So your kid tells you he or she is gay... Now what? #839343
11/01/04 07:32 AM
11/01/04 07:32 AM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,340
Massachusetts
BeeLady Offline
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Massachusetts
Quote
Originally posted by MusicMagellan:

I'd love them no more than my other kids, but I'd display my love for them more because I'd feel they would especially need to feel my support. I say that because that's what my wife and I have done instinctively when specific children have needed extra support at various times in their lives.

(The truth is that is a no brainer. I didn't have to think about that more than a microsecond. And I'd also say that any parent who wouldn't think that way had better use that as a clue to reexamine themselves. Sounds self-righteous on my part? Frankly, I don't give a flying you know what how it might sound.)
Well said! thumb


BeeLady

Life is like a roll of toilet paper...the closer you get to the end, the faster it goes!
Re: So your kid tells you he or she is gay... Now what? #839344
11/01/04 07:56 AM
11/01/04 07:56 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 6,416
Washington D.C. Metro
Cindysphinx Offline
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Washington D.C. Metro
MM, Beelady is right. Well said!

I'd become my child's most fierce advocate. Because they have the right to live their life in the manner they choose to live it, without harrassment by others.

I'd especially try to be open and available about spiritual matters, as this will be an especially difficult issue they'll need to face.

Re: So your kid tells you he or she is gay... Now what? #839345
11/01/04 08:00 AM
11/01/04 08:00 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 3,041
Southern California
John Andrew Offline
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I suspect finding out their child is gay would be far easier for TomK, Gryphon, Jolly and Renauda than finding out the child is a Liberal. wink


You can be disappointed, but you cannot walk away. This fight has just begun. Senator John Edwards
Re: So your kid tells you he or she is gay... Now what? #839346
11/01/04 08:08 AM
11/01/04 08:08 AM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,171
Wisconsin
markjpcs Offline
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Wisconsin
Like a "Log Cabin Republican? laugh

Re: So your kid tells you he or she is gay... Now what? #839347
11/01/04 08:09 AM
11/01/04 08:09 AM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 725
Maryland
Eusebius Offline
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Maryland
89th...

What if your offspring had overcome huge genetic odds by being born with a working brain, and therefore understood that homosexuality is not something which needs curing?

If he/she refused "treatment," what then?


"My atheism, like that of Spinoza, is true piety towards the universe and denies only gods fashioned by men in their own image, to be servants of their human interests." - Santayana
Re: So your kid tells you he or she is gay... Now what? #839348
11/01/04 08:30 AM
11/01/04 08:30 AM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,400
Northern Virginia
The 89th Key Offline
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The 89th Key  Offline
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Northern Virginia
Ah yes, another cheap shot by an ignorant Eusebius...you have just as much evidence showing that homosexuality is natural, as I have evidence that it is a subconscious psychological disorder....and yet you continue to say my opinion is wrong. Who is the dumb one now?

If anything, I have more evidence, considering:

A) it is the ONLY way to survive as a species
B) the reasons gay people are even here are from heterosexual parents....you dont see a black couple having a white baby....do you?


...and as for the treatment scenario, if my kid refused help, the only thing left I could do is to pray. What else could you do? Sit back and do nothing as they commit an abomination in God's eyes?


-The 89th Key [Linked Image]

[Linked Image] www.thecollegecritic.com [Linked Image]
--- Integrity | Loyalty | Simplicity ---
Re: So your kid tells you he or she is gay... Now what? #839349
11/01/04 09:05 AM
11/01/04 09:05 AM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,066
Renauda Offline
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Renauda  Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by John Andrew:
I suspect finding out their child is gay would be far easier for TomK, Gryphon, Jolly and Renauda than finding out the child is a Liberal. wink
Can't speak for the others but you got me pegged right. I couldn't abide having a "useful idiot" for a son or daughter. laugh


"The older the fiddle, the sweeter the music"~ Augustus McCrae
Re: So your kid tells you he or she is gay... Now what? #839350
11/01/04 09:07 AM
11/01/04 09:07 AM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 6,467
Phoenix, AZ
Nina Offline
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Nina  Offline
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Phoenix, AZ
Homosexuality exists in nature

One reason why homosexuality may be adaptive in humans

The question, from a scientific point of view, isn't quite as cut and dried as you believe.

Re: So your kid tells you he or she is gay... Now what? #839351
11/01/04 09:25 AM
11/01/04 09:25 AM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,400
Northern Virginia
The 89th Key Offline
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The 89th Key  Offline
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Northern Virginia
Humans have souls and emotion, we are held to a higher standard than animals. Many things happen in the animal kingdom that might be natural, whether rare or regularly occurring, it doesn't mean that the same standard is applicable in the human race.

Again, even if we continue with the animal argument...that proves nothing! It is still very likely that it is a psychological disorder: A species can not survive with homosexual behavior. Period.

Do what you want in your bedroom, whether you think you are held to God's standard or not...I can't help any of that. If you want to worship your cat in your house, eat everything in site, walk around naked in your house, have sex with someone of your gender, thats fine.

But dont force special government recognitions of abnormal and unnatural behavior. Leave it inside.


-The 89th Key [Linked Image]

[Linked Image] www.thecollegecritic.com [Linked Image]
--- Integrity | Loyalty | Simplicity ---
Re: So your kid tells you he or she is gay... Now what? #839352
11/01/04 09:28 AM
11/01/04 09:28 AM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 6,467
Phoenix, AZ
Nina Offline
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Read the Nature article.

Re: So your kid tells you he or she is gay... Now what? #839353
11/01/04 09:31 AM
11/01/04 09:31 AM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,161
NY
MusicMagellan Offline
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MusicMagellan  Offline
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NY
Nina,

There is fallacy that continues to prevail which refuses to die. The fallacy is that every characteristic of a given species promotes its survival. All random selection states is that the aggregate of the characteristics of a surviving species is such as to have achieved survival so far in the ever changing environment. (And, yes, we are a species that is profoundly affecting our environment for better AND worse for our survival.)

But, given that qualification, it is certainly also worthwhile to examine reasons for self-adaptation. At the same time I bristle at so-called scientists, as reflected in those articles, who are surprised when they find characteristics that can't be explained by promotion of species survival.

Then there are those who believe we have been purposefully designed by God. Fine. But where I again bristle is when they claim they know what the purpose of that design is. They will comb scripture to find a specific phrase that they can interpret to justify their (what I consider sexually neurotic ) world view -- just as some once used the bible to justify segregation and condemn racial intermarriage in the name of God. (Truth is, if I had my way I'd carpet bomb that crowd off the face of the earth.)

The irony is that if one reads the New Testament, one finds that the "sin" Jesus condemned far more than homosexuality (in fact I could never find where He ever condemned homosexuality) is divorce!! (...and you know who you are wink )


(watch this space)
Re: So your kid tells you he or she is gay... Now what? #839354
11/01/04 09:37 AM
11/01/04 09:37 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,862
Kansas
apple* Offline
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I would not judge my children's being.


accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, ├Ľun (apple in Estonian)
Re: So your kid tells you he or she is gay... Now what? #839355
11/01/04 09:43 AM
11/01/04 09:43 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 386
England
F
F. Chopin Offline
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F. Chopin  Offline
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F
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England
Quote
Originally posted by The 89th Key:
Humans have souls and emotion, we are held to a higher standard than animals. Many things happen in the animal kingdom that might be natural, whether rare or regularly occurring, it doesn't mean that the same standard is applicable in the human race.

Again, even if we continue with the animal argument...that proves nothing! It is still very likely that it is a psychological disorder: [b]A species can not survive with homosexual behavior.
Period.

Do what you want in your bedroom, whether you think you are held to God's standard or not...I can't help any of that. If you want to worship your cat in your house, eat everything in site, walk around naked in your house, have sex with someone of your gender, thats fine.

But dont force special government recognitions of abnormal and unnatural behavior. Leave it inside. [/b]
Some people are born blind, some people are born deformed, some retarted etc.

All of these would probably result in extinction if universalized, but all are due to genetic defects, complications during pregnancy etc.

(sorry to compare homosexuality to being retarted.)

Quote
A species can not survive with homosexual behavior. Period.
Actually, human beings could survive even if they were all gay, because they would realize they had to either have heterosexual sex or have IVF, etc.

As you said, humans are more intelligent than animals. I disagree that animals don't have "emotion" though.

Re: So your kid tells you he or she is gay... Now what? #839356
11/01/04 09:43 AM
11/01/04 09:43 AM
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Posts: 5,066
Renauda Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by MusicMagellan:
The irony is that if one reads the New Testament, one finds that the "sin" Jesus condemned far more than homosexuality (in fact I could never find where He ever condemned homosexuality) is divorce!! (...and you know who you are wink )
Actually, I am convinced by the argument that he had in for divorced bankers.


"The older the fiddle, the sweeter the music"~ Augustus McCrae
Re: So your kid tells you he or she is gay... Now what? #839357
11/01/04 09:55 AM
11/01/04 09:55 AM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,402
U.K.
ycul Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by Eusebius:
89th...

What if your offspring had overcome huge genetic odds by being born with a working brain, and therefore understood that homosexuality is not something which needs curing?

If he/she refused "treatment," what then?
Yes, what a cheap shot that was Eusebius.
:rolleyes:
That's the first comment that's had me laughing out loud for quite some time now. laugh :p wink thumb


How now, brown cow.
Re: So your kid tells you he or she is gay... Now what? #839358
11/01/04 09:57 AM
11/01/04 09:57 AM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,400
Northern Virginia
The 89th Key Offline
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The 89th Key  Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by F. Chopin:
Some people are born blind, some people are born deformed, some retarted etc.

All of these would probably result in extinction if universalized, but all are due to genetic defects, complications during pregnancy etc.

(sorry to compare homosexuality to being retarted.)
Well first, there was nothing wrong with your comparison to being retarded. No one can deny that being homosexual (if you argue that it is natural) is a is a natural deformity/abnormal behavior; it is simply not how humans are 'supposed' to be. Being blind, retarded, homosexual, deaf, bad eyesight, etc. are all unfortunate abnormal human characteristics. I'm not saying that they are bad, so dont get me wrong; just not normal human characteristics.

Secondly, so the government should give special tax breaks, recognition, etc. to a blind couple? Do you know how many doors you are opening?


-The 89th Key [Linked Image]

[Linked Image] www.thecollegecritic.com [Linked Image]
--- Integrity | Loyalty | Simplicity ---
Re: So your kid tells you he or she is gay... Now what? #839359
11/01/04 10:01 AM
11/01/04 10:01 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 386
England
F
F. Chopin Offline
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Joined: Aug 2003
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England
Assuming that homosexuality and blindness are both genetic:

We don't consider blindness to be immoral. It doesn't need to be corrected for that reason, so why does homosexuality?

Homosexuality may not be "nature" for the race as a whole, but it IS "natural" (i.e. it is the nature of) the person who is gay.

God would not design nature to be immoral, that is left to the choice of free beings.

Re: So your kid tells you he or she is gay... Now what? #839360
11/01/04 10:06 AM
11/01/04 10:06 AM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,400
Northern Virginia
The 89th Key Offline
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The 89th Key  Offline
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You see, this is where we disagree, it is hard for me to argue under your hypothetical parameter. I do NOT believe that they are both genetic. But maybe this will help:

My point was that if you do believe that, then you will have to allow special governmental recognition of blind couples, gay couples, and any other sort of genetical situation, you know?


-The 89th Key [Linked Image]

[Linked Image] www.thecollegecritic.com [Linked Image]
--- Integrity | Loyalty | Simplicity ---
Re: So your kid tells you he or she is gay... Now what? #839361
11/01/04 10:08 AM
11/01/04 10:08 AM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 7,051
K
kenny Offline
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I am a genetical situation.

I shall ponder this today.

Re: So your kid tells you he or she is gay... Now what? #839362
11/01/04 10:12 AM
11/01/04 10:12 AM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,400
Northern Virginia
The 89th Key Offline
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Northern Virginia
Have fun! thumb


-The 89th Key [Linked Image]

[Linked Image] www.thecollegecritic.com [Linked Image]
--- Integrity | Loyalty | Simplicity ---
Re: So your kid tells you he or she is gay... Now what? #839363
11/01/04 10:15 AM
11/01/04 10:15 AM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 276
Stresa, Italy
Mozart1969 Offline
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Stresa, Italy
Still pondering Kenny? I shouldn't bother if I were you. Why waste time?

89 has his own opinion (of which I don't agree with at all) Let him have this opinion and carry on with your life!


Je lieber moecht'ich in Himmel sein!
Re: So your kid tells you he or she is gay... Now what? #839364
11/01/04 10:31 AM
11/01/04 10:31 AM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,400
Northern Virginia
The 89th Key Offline
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The 89th Key  Offline
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Northern Virginia
Don't listen to him, Kenny (no offense Wolfgang), let me know what your thoughts are as you ponder this...maybe you can leave the dark side after all! smile


-The 89th Key [Linked Image]

[Linked Image] www.thecollegecritic.com [Linked Image]
--- Integrity | Loyalty | Simplicity ---
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