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Roy and Silo, two chinstrap penguins at the Central Park Zoo in Manhattan, are completely devoted to each other. For nearly six years now, they have been inseparable. They exhibit what in penguin parlance is called "ecstatic behavior": that is, they entwine their necks, they vocalize to each other, they have sex. Silo and Roy are, to anthropomorphize a bit, gay penguins. When offered female companionship, they have adamantly refused it. And the females aren't interested in them, either.

At one time, the two seemed so desperate to incubate an egg together that they put a rock in their nest and sat on it, keeping it warm in the folds of their abdomens, said their chief keeper, Rob Gramzay. Finally, he gave them a fertile egg that needed care to hatch. Things went perfectly. Roy and Silo sat on it for the typical 34 days until a chick, Tango, was born. For the next two and a half months they raised Tango, keeping her warm and feeding her food from their beaks until she could go out into the world on her own. Mr. Gramzay is full of praise for them.

Rest of the article here

(worth signing up for the Times if you aren't already)

jf

Homosexuality is a naturally occuring phenomenon within many species. I don't understand why anyone would think humans are above such a natural occurence.

I'm sorry John, many?

I'd love to know which species are inherently homosexual, and which have homosexual anomolies.

It sure is hard to perpetuate the species this way

I know of no species which is inherently homosexual, nor did I imply there were.

All I said was the homosexuality is naturally occuring in many species. Nothing more. Nothing less.

In those species where it does occur, it is a small percentage, just as it is among humans. But it is naturally occuring, not a choice.

Not a choice... so you mean it's intrinsic... born with... inherent?

When you say certain species, you are implying that there are whole species prone to this behavior, not that there are anomolies within all species and phylum of animals.

And doesn't the existence of celibacy prove that anything sexual IS based on choice?
An alcoholic may be prone or genetically predisposed to drinking, yet they still choose to drink at some point. Isn't any sexual behavior the same?

If there is a gene that makes penguins or other species homosexual, how is it passed on? If sexual preferences are genetic, aren't there pedophile penguins? And then doesn't this mean that pedophiles are such because of their genes rather than their choice?
I know I'm blurring the line between animal and human. I don't mean to turn the thread into a debate on homosexuality, but I see problems with this type of reasoning.

These penguins seem more confused than sexually aware. I haven't read that there are any species of birds who have sex for fun rather than procreation. And if you look into the mating habits of penguins, the ritual is a bit more involved than with other birds. This seems to me to point to these two birds being more confused than anything. The fact that they sit on the egg shows that they're trying to procreate.

Hey, not only gay penguins, gay monogamous MARRIED penguins.

I'm starting on the book now, "Tango Has Two Daddies".

My sons studied penguins in the early grades.. and I've learned that it is the job of the males to tend the eggs. My guess is that Roy and Silo are just friends and their touching and such is just language. It is common for many species that are raised in captivity to have problems in mating rituals.

...and our gay human friends are "in captivity?"

jf

what kind of logic is that?

I merely suggest that that type of behavior might not be atypical of captive male penguins... I refer to no humans. Is there something I don't know?

Actually, there is evidence that, among early humans (and among some so-called primitive tribes) gay men tend younger boys, freeing up women to care for infants and do "women's work". The extra care afforded as a result extends the procreative capacity of the tribal group, as larger segments of the childhood population survive to procreate.

In other words, gay men are prized for their value in the procreative process of the community (rather like elderly women who are past childbearing age.) In medieval times, they were valued for the strength they afforded monastic communities. (see the work of John Boswell.)

In fact, humans held in captivity seem to exhibit the same homosexual tendencies. One need only go as far as the nearest prison to see what I mean.

What you may not know is that it is "not atypical" of somewhere between 5% and 10% of human beings. The fact that it occurs among Penguins in a committed monogomous relationship is Very informative.

jf

Penguins all look alike anyway, so how would they know? Maybe they're just nearsighted....

I was afraid of water when I was a kid. The way they got me to get passed it was to just toss me into the lake. Maybe they need to just get a girl penguin...... or maybe a bunch of the male penguins should take the two of them out to shoot a little pool or something, and have a talk with them.... maybe they just need to have how it works explained to them..... Are there any other clues, like...do they have good decorating tastes or anything?......

Unlike prisons, zoos are coed and offer choices. The prevalence of homosexual acts in prison is probably a testament to the POWER of the sexual drive...when denied the prefered object of desire, some revert to other objects....

jf

..and I know a female dog that tries to hump a male cat about 20 times a day. What does that prove. .....that I'm anti gay? Please.

True, but I'll tell you what, JF, they couldn't lock me away long enough to cause me to start thinking about it. So if you ever find yourself in prison and for some reason I'm there too, you can bunk safely in my cell, buddy......

Larry, I am sure you are right. They just need glasses. Let's dedicate a billion and a half dollars to buy all the queers glasses...the problem will go away.



jf

(PS this is the first and I hope last smile face I have ever used, but I didn't want Larry to misinterpret me and get out his flamethrower.....)

what I hate is when someone rudely, and thoroughly disparages everything you say, think and believe in, and then makes fun of your vocabulary and likes and dislikes in one lone paragraph, and then adds a smiley or two to make it look like they are 'nice'.

All I can add to this discussion is a plea to end the repression of gay penguins. It's hard enough being a penguin in North America as it is!

As far as humans go, well, let's just say they're not penguins; and penguins aren't humans. So, what does that tell us?

Well, apparently not a whole heck of a lot. But there are queer humans.

Penguins are not the brightest animal.

Let's look at the facts:
They have a beak and wings yet can not fly. I think it is because they are just too fat and lazy (normal birds stay in shape).
What happen to their feathers. I think they just moved too far north and froze their feathers off.

And what's up with the way they walk?