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#833595 - 11/26/04 05:23 PM Re: Ok - I volunteer to be a trash hauler in the PF - second wind..  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 9,217
Larry Offline
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Larry  Offline
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Deep in Cherokee Country
Bernard, you just don't like me. That's *your* problem, not mine, or anyone else's.


Life isn't measured by the breaths you take. Life is measured by the things that left you breathless
Piano & Music Accessories
#833596 - 11/26/04 05:29 PM Re: Ok - I volunteer to be a trash hauler in the PF - second wind..  
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,798
JBryan Offline
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Oklahoma City
Haven't you been moderating the PF already?


Better to light one small candle than to curse the %&#$@#! darkness. :t:
#833597 - 11/26/04 05:33 PM Re: Ok - I volunteer to be a trash hauler in the PF - second wind..  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 2,943
Penny Offline
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Penny  Offline
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Posts: 2,943
San Juan Capistrano, CA
We're talking about the Piano Forum, not the Coffee Room. The only one who could moderate that is someone who knows the business intimately. People who have sold pianos, played pianos, rebuilt pianos. I can think of maybe only 10 people who have ever graced our presence to be qualified (and maybe not even 10). Larry is one of them.

All we ask is a little transparency. Heck, sales "weasels" can post, too, as long as everyone is clear about just who is doing the talking.

The opportunity to mislead is much more important and cause for much more concern and scrutiny on a forum called Piano Forum in a place called Piano World. Don't forget many people go there to start their research process in making a MAJOR purchase. Someone ought to be making sure the information is fair and opinions are labeled as such. In fact, Larry (and a few others) has been doing this for years, anyways.

What this gains us is the opportunity to nip some of these ridiculous thread wars in the bud. (Of course, it kind of kills all the fun for us old-timers who wait for Larry's next target to open mouth, insert foot!).

penny

#833598 - 11/26/04 05:42 PM Re: Ok - I volunteer to be a trash hauler in the PF - second wind..  
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,918
teachum Offline
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idaho
For what my two cents worth is worth - I think Larry would use good judgement in getting rid of the CR___, without being overly censorious (right word?) I'm sick of all this stuff!


You will be 10 years older, ten years from now, no matter what you do - so go for it!

Estonia #6141 in Satin Mahogany
#833599 - 11/26/04 05:43 PM Re: Ok - I volunteer to be a trash hauler in the PF - second wind..  
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,918
teachum Offline
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teachum  Offline
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,918
idaho
Ooops! Double Post. Thanks for calling it my attention, Renauda. I was getting that message about the forum being flooded and ended up double-posting! But - it was worth saying twice. laugh


You will be 10 years older, ten years from now, no matter what you do - so go for it!

Estonia #6141 in Satin Mahogany
#833600 - 11/26/04 05:46 PM Re: Ok - I volunteer to be a trash hauler in the PF - second wind..  
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,066
Renauda Offline
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You can say that again, Teachum. wink


"The older the fiddle, the sweeter the music"~ Augustus McCrae
#833601 - 11/26/04 06:17 PM Re: Ok - I volunteer to be a trash hauler in the PF - second wind..  
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,971
kathyk Offline
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Maine
He'd sure as heck get rid of me right off!!!

[Linked Image]\

Fox gaurding the chicken coop? AKA - time for all liberals in CR to expire - for good!

#833602 - 11/26/04 06:28 PM Re: Ok - I volunteer to be a trash hauler in the PF - second wind..  
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Larry Offline
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Larry  Offline
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Deep in Cherokee Country
Kathy..... dear...... sigh..... pay attention.

This isn't a political issue. It isn't about the Coffee Room. It isn't about telling you what you or anyone else can or cannot say. It's about helping keep four letter words, explicit pictures, and stalkers from running loose on the PF. If you haven't posted any lude pictures, used a stream of 4 letter words, or stalked anyone in the PF, you wouldn't be the slightest bit affected.

Geez.......


Life isn't measured by the breaths you take. Life is measured by the things that left you breathless
#833603 - 11/26/04 06:45 PM Re: Ok - I volunteer to be a trash hauler in the PF - second wind..  
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,066
Renauda Offline
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And if it's any consolation KathyK I would be the first to protest anyone who would zap you for your views. Larry is being sincere as is everyone else who has contributed to this discussion. Please to bury the hachet for this *meeting* and think constructively.


"The older the fiddle, the sweeter the music"~ Augustus McCrae
#833604 - 11/26/04 06:57 PM Re: Ok - I volunteer to be a trash hauler in the PF - second wind..  
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,654
Phlebas Offline
Phlebas  Offline


Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,654
New York City
Larry,

That's a nice offer.

However I love you

(in a....

[Linked Image]

,...and.....

[Linked Image]...kind of way)

much more as you are now. That is, with your unequaled BS meter helping out the people visiting the PF and asking questions without getting misinformed.

I have the feeling this valuable service might be more restricted "moderated" if you were in a "moderating capacity."

#833605 - 11/26/04 07:04 PM Re: Ok - I volunteer to be a trash hauler in the PF - second wind..  
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,838
katie_dup1 Offline
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Canada
I believe the piano buying public would benefit knowing an experienced & former dealer is moderating the PF ... IMO, it's reassuring, and also lends credibility and objectivity to what the PF has come to represent.

IMO, Who else but Larry?

I'm also wondering what Frank thinks ....

#833606 - 11/26/04 07:18 PM Re: Ok - I volunteer to be a trash hauler in the PF - second wind..  
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 82
xuser Offline
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Zug, Switzerland
Reading this post of Larry in the PF (not the CR) you may think about if he would not ban this member after he gets the power:

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Larry:
... because I'm tired of having to deal with people like you who don't understand or appreciate the value of those with industry credentials and years of experience. I'm tired of spending part of my day reading through threads to help keep misinformation out that gets put up here by new members. I'm tired of having to go from a simple correction to an argument just because some new member decides to get an attitude because someone dared question his ignorant input. I'm tired of helping you sort out the salesmen with an agenda hiding their bias and giving you twisted sales pitches.

#833607 - 11/26/04 07:22 PM Re: Ok - I volunteer to be a trash hauler in the PF - second wind..  
Joined: Apr 2004
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Jeffrey Offline
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New York
kathyk, xuser - Larry would be a great choice. Check out nipon and a few other stalking trolls in the PF - they are making some threads unreadable and harrassing those who have some knowledge of the topics. Larry would be quite fare, from what I have seen.

#833608 - 11/26/04 07:24 PM Re: Ok - I volunteer to be a trash hauler in the PF - second wind..  
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 841
Ben D. Offline
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Texas
I agree with CJQ: I see no problem as long as there is a fair appeals process!


now a resident of TNCR - www.coffee-room.com
#833609 - 11/26/04 07:35 PM Re: Ok - I volunteer to be a trash hauler in the PF - second wind..  
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 388
ProPianoGuyBC Offline
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Larry gets my vote too..... I would like to see some sort of very simple appeals process!

#833610 - 11/26/04 07:37 PM Re: Ok - I volunteer to be a trash hauler in the PF - second wind..  
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,774
Keith D Kerman Online content
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Keith D Kerman  Online Content
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,774
Gaithersburg, MD (Washington D...
So far, I see three suggestions offered.

1. Do nothing. With this, we lose valuable members such as KB, and others, who aren't interested in being dragged into pointless " I know you are, but what am I" type discussions. To me, this would lead to an eventual attrition of all knowledgable contributors.

2. Larry becomes moderator. This has my vote. Although Larry has ruffled many feathers, and is certainly biased,( at least from experience ) he has the knowledge of the industry, the high level BS meter, the respect of many of us, and he cares enough to have offered.

3. Several moderators. This could be the best solution, but who else is offering. Not me. When I get fed up with the nonsense, I just go away.

So, unless anybody else is offering, or accepting a nomination, and if Frank agrees ( what do you think Frank? ) why not give it a try with Larry? It is just an experiment. And I hope people aren't reading anything into Larry's offer beyond his generously offering to pitch in.


Keith D Kerman
PianoCraft
Rebuilding & Sales - vintage and used Steinway, Mason & Hamlin
New Steingraeber, Estonia, Baldwin
www.pianocraft.net
check out www.sitkadoc.com
www.twitter.com/pianocraft https://www.youtube.com/user/pianocraftchannel

keith@pianocraft.net 888-840-5460
#833611 - 11/26/04 08:03 PM Re: Ok - I volunteer to be a trash hauler in the PF - second wind..  
Joined: May 2004
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teachum Offline
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teachum  Offline
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,918
idaho
KathyK - Larry's posts may sound a bit harsh at times, but there's no way he would ban you for holding different political views. As he said, only if you did the things we are all objecting to, not holding different political views. I'm fairly conservative and I too, would object to you being banned. smile After observing Nipon and a couple of others for awhile, I even like BEN D now. laugh He has WAY more class! And I've been known to smart back to him, to my great embarrassment. I really should stay out of all things politic.


You will be 10 years older, ten years from now, no matter what you do - so go for it!

Estonia #6141 in Satin Mahogany
#833612 - 11/26/04 08:13 PM Re: Ok - I volunteer to be a trash hauler in the PF - second wind..  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 10,773
Rich Galassini Offline
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I think Larry would do an excellent job as a moderator. It isn't about censorship - it is about preserving The Forum as the place it is. Whether or not you get along with him personally, he definitely is interested in keeping the integrity of this place.

My 2 cents,


Rich Galassini
Cunningham Piano Co.
Phila, Pa.
(215) 991-0834 direct line
rich@cunninghampiano.com
Check out the Science Channel's "How Its Made" featuring our piano restoration:
http://www.cunninghampiano.com/how-its-made/
#833613 - 11/26/04 08:45 PM Re: Ok - I volunteer to be a trash hauler in the PF - second wind..  
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jodi Offline
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Yes, but who's going to moderate Larry?

wink wink wink laugh Jodi

#833614 - 11/26/04 09:02 PM Re: Ok - I volunteer to be a trash hauler in the PF - second wind..  
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 15
espresso Offline
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Larry is not the best choice guys.

I agree some of the posts are getting out of hand, but Larry is not the guy to give censoring power to. The man already is already an ego-maniac...in a good way lol.
Giving that man any more power, or even a title would put him over the edge.

#833615 - 11/26/04 09:08 PM Re: Ok - I volunteer to be a trash hauler in the PF - second wind..  
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 300
AKindWord Offline
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AKindWord  Offline
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Kentucky/Tennessee
I think that choosing any long time forum member who is known for being overly hostile and defensive when crossed (and no, I'm not just speaking of Larry) should never be considered as moderator.

There are many deservedly well respected members here that nonetheless, cannot handle the varying personalities and points of views on this forum. Simply because their own opinions are too strong and overwhelming to allow them to be unbiased.

If anyone is to be moderator, it probably should be someone Frank sees in person on a very regular basis.

Someone who is new to the forums and has not built up any personal vendettas against any members.

If it had to be a current member I would choose Irving Faust. Even if he is a dealer, he is one of the most fair minded posters I have seen.

Larry cannot even moderate himself. Let alone a whole forum.

-AKindWord


I'm awake! I'm awake!
#833616 - 11/26/04 09:20 PM Re: Ok - I volunteer to be a trash hauler in the PF - second wind..  
Joined: Feb 2003
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Cindysphinx Offline
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 6,416
Washington D.C. Metro
I think if Frank wants moderating help, Frank should say so and state how he'd like to receive comments. Until then, I'd say this discussion is premature.

Interesting, but premature.

#833617 - 11/27/04 02:31 AM Re: Ok - I volunteer to be a trash hauler in the PF - second wind..  
Joined: May 2001
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lb Offline
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Indiana
Larry has my vote. Like Penny said, there aren't to many here capable of doing the job.

The PF is permeated with trolls and sockpuppets of dealers. I posted a year ago that the PF would implode and no longer become a value to piano shoppers. It has almost reached that point.

An unbiased moderator is the only thing that can save what is left.

lb

#833618 - 11/27/04 03:23 AM Re: Ok - I volunteer to be a trash hauler in the PF - second wind..  
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 276
Mozart1969 Offline
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Stresa, Italy
I vote NO to Larry being a moderator in the Piano Forum simply because he has had run-ins with quite a few regulars here and tends to have a heavy hand. A person new to PW would be a good idea and OBVIOUSLY a person chosen by Frank.

Personally I don't think this Moderater needs to be competent with pianos. We are all shocked at the foul personal attacks that are going on and it is that that we want to eliminate, no? It is up to us to moderate the accuracy of the information given/posted. In fact, rest assured, if someone posts inaccurate or incorrect information someone jumps in and corrects it thankfully. So we need a moderator that stops ugly posts containing bad language from these trolls getting onto the forums.

Just my point of view


Je lieber moecht'ich in Himmel sein!
#833619 - 11/27/04 04:17 AM Re: Ok - I volunteer to be a trash hauler in the PF - second wind..  
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 808
sarah_blueparrot Offline
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Bristol, England
Quote
Originally posted by AKindWord:
Larry cannot even moderate himself. Let alone a whole forum.

-AKindWord
And your opinion would be exactly the same should you happen to be perfectly unbiased and if you didn't have the slightest problem with Larry, would it?

===Point being made===


Every time you play a funeral march, the devil grabs a soul.
#833620 - 11/27/04 05:20 AM Re: Ok - I volunteer to be a trash hauler in the PF - second wind..  
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Posts: 2,384
johnmoonlight Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by Mozart1969:
I vote NO to Larry being a moderator in the Piano Forum simply because he has had run-ins with quite a few regulars here and tends to have a heavy hand. A person new to PW would be a good idea and OBVIOUSLY a person chosen by Frank.

I disagree. Larry may have a heavy hand, but that is exactly what is needed with some of the scumbags that try to mess the place up. I also disagree that the person should be new to PW. It should be someone who has seen just about everything here and who has a great deal of common sense. I think Larry fits the bill pretty well. I can think of others as well.
Maybe a sub-committee with veto power?


While one who sings with his tongue on fire
Gargles in the rat race choir
Bent out of shape from society's pliers
Cares not to come up any higher
But rather get you down in the hole
That he's in.
#833621 - 11/27/04 05:21 AM Re: Ok - I volunteer to be a trash hauler in the PF - second wind..  
Joined: Oct 2003
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Freedom Offline
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Freedom  Offline
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Scotland
Quote
Originally posted by johnmoonlight:
Quote
Originally posted by Mozart1969:
[b] I vote NO to Larry being a moderator in the Piano Forum simply because he has had run-ins with quite a few regulars here and tends to have a heavy hand. A person new to PW would be a good idea and OBVIOUSLY a person chosen by Frank.

I disagree. Larry may have a heavy hand, but that is exactly what is needed with some of the scumbags that try to mess the place up. I also disagree that the person should be new to PW. It should be someone who has seen just about everything here and who has a great deal of common sense. I think Larry fits the bill pretty well. I can think of others as well.
Maybe a sub-committee with veto power? [/b]
Well said John thumb


"A print of the score has everything you need to know about the music, except the essential."
#833622 - 11/27/04 05:24 AM Re: Ok - I volunteer to be a trash hauler in the PF - second wind..  
Joined: Jun 2001
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Jolly Offline
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Louisiana
If Larry wants to strap it on, by all means let him.

Penny makes the best point contained in this thread - most of us do not have Larry's knowledge base. I can't restring a piano, I have no earthly idea how to string level, or how to lighten an action. In short, in order to whack the weasels, you've got to know what you are talking about, down to minute details.

Larry fits that bill.

There are a few others, (Rich comes to mind), but Larry will not be hurt financially, if push comes to shove.


www.coffee-room.com

Over 1.3M (and counting) posts where pianists discuss everything. And nothing.
#833623 - 11/27/04 06:27 AM Re: Ok - I volunteer to be a trash hauler in the PF - second wind..  
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fmelliott Offline
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Virginia
Larry would be terrific as a moderator!

If there are some shrinking violets who fear him, let them put up a candidate for a co-moderator. They are extremely unlikely to find anyone as qualified, but I suppose it might LOOK better to have two votes against each troll.

:t: Does that look like a troll?

#833624 - 11/27/04 06:33 AM Re: Ok - I volunteer to be a trash hauler in the PF - second wind..  
Joined: May 2001
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Larry Offline
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Deep in Cherokee Country
Ok, time for me to weigh in and correct a few wrong assumptions.

To those of you worried about my "heavy hand", and those of you whose opinions are colored by being guilty of such trollish behavior that you've experienced that "heavy hand" (Thank you, Sarah Blueparrot), pay close attention to this sentence:

I did not suggest, nor do I want, there to be a moderator in the sense that this person has censorship authority over every post, where your every post is screened and "approved" by a moderator. Not at all. Maybe I should have used a different word than "moderator". All I have suggested be done, and all I have offerred to do - is help watch for the vulgar, vile stuff like what went up yesterday, and be given the ability to remove it before it is seen by anyone. Frank can't possibly be here all the time, and it would be good to have several people actually, who can remove those kinds of posts when we spot them.

That is ALL I'M OFFERING TO DO, AND IT IS ALL I THINK NEEDS TO BE DONE.

A few of you apparently didn't see the thread I'm referring to. One troll, inside of a few minutes, had started a thread, and posted in two others, two in the PF and one in the CR, containing vulgar pictures with the "F" word in huge letters, and it was obvious that he had every intention of hitting more threads with this filth. I checked to see how many people had viewed it, and in the short period of time it had been up when I first saw it, only about 3 people had viewed the thread. If I could have removed it, only those 3 would have seen it. By the time it had been called to Frank's attention, nearly 20 people had viewed the thread. Frank cannot be here every minute of every day, and because of this, a thread like that could stay up for hours if he isn't available. Giving someone else the ability to edit out threads and posts like that would take a burden off Frank, and help keep that kind of thing off the forums.

So to those of you who are worried that I'm suggesting that I be given the right to dictate your political views, or run roughshod over you with my "heavy hand", rest your little minds. Unless you were to post filthy pictures, use the "F" word, or things along that line, nothing at all would change. What I'm suggesting is not a "Moderator", but simply a way to allow at least one, and preferrably more than one, have the ability to take down extreme vulgarity. That's all. Nothing more. Your normal arguing and bickering, your normal power games, would continue as usual.

What is it that's hard about this to understand? If I had a child who read this forum and had discovered that thread yesterday, it would have made me afraid to allow my child to read this place any longer. We don't need that, and Frank doesn't need that. All I've offered to do is help watch for and remove that kind of post.


Life isn't measured by the breaths you take. Life is measured by the things that left you breathless
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