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Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Piano
#82991
09/30/06 11:35 PM
09/30/06 11:35 PM
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 22
artemov
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Hello everybody, this is my first post Please don't scold me. I have used the search function and most of the postings on Singapore are quite dated. So here goes. I am an adult beginner hoping to learn classical piano. I will be 33 soon, so I hope it's not too late for me. Currently I am shopping for my first upright piano. Initially my budget is S$5000, but now I don't mind paying a bit more to get something better that can last a decade or two. I am a bit lost and confused at the many varieties of piano available: different brands, models, countries, factories, ... So I hope that someone can recommend a good and decently priced upright piano for a beginner. I am quite interested in the new Kawai K series (K3), or a Yamaha (U1 amd M112T), but someone mentioned somewhere here that Kawai in Singapore is overpriced and the pricings are not very transparent. Are the Korean made, or the Indonesian or the Chinese clones (U1J) any good? Also I don't mind getting a used piano, but don't even know how to play the piano (yet), let alone evaluate one. I would appreciate if the replies are more relevant to Singapore, but all replies are welcome lah! Please help, as I really want to learn the piano. Been thinking about it since my high school days!
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Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Piano
#82992
09/30/06 11:53 PM
09/30/06 11:53 PM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,005 Singapore
Wzkit
1000 Post Club Member
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1000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,005
Singapore
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I think both Kawai and Yamaha are pretty safe choices, and it will ultimately boil down to your own preferences for tone and touch. If you do not feel comfortable with evaluating tone/touch, then get an experienced player to come along with you. In general, I like Yamahas for their action, although I must say the Kawais have caught up more recently.
That said, for the amount you are willing to spend, which I would presume to be no more than S$7-8K, there are many many other options you could consider. Try Gramercy at Tg Katong Road, to try out their Bohemia (Czech made), and Wilhelm Tell (China made). They both seem reasonably priced and nice sounding instruments. You could also try the Petrof uprights (Czech made) at Music Lodge, at Bukit Timah shopping centre - they sell used Yamahas and Kawais too. And at Bukit Timah Plaza, there's the Pianoman's shop, that sells Nottingham (China made), alongside Ibach . Don't forget to visit Chiu Piano at Thomson Plaza for the Cramers and Kembles, which might be within your budget. And lastly, I think Perzina is great value, very affordable with a nice silky action and deep bass - certainly enough to give Yamaha and Kawai a run for their money! You can find them at Sonata Music House (at Singapore SHopping Centre and Teck Whye).
While you're at it, you might also want to try out some higher end German pianos at these shops (Ibach at the Pianoman, Schimmel, Wilhelm Steinberg at Chiu Piano). I would also strongly recommend a visit to Raffles Piano at Victoria Concert Hall, which sells only Sauter and provides outstanding service - I bought my grand from him. While these German pianos are likely to be out of your budget for now, they do provide a benchmark for comparison. Downside of course, is that you could get too spoilt by too much of a good thing!
The bottomline is, just keep your mind open and explore all the available options. Singapore is a small place and you should be able to visit all the abovementioned shops within a couple of weekends.
Hope this helps
Sauter 185 Delta with accelerated action and burl walnut fallboard
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Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Piano
#82994
10/02/06 10:21 AM
10/02/06 10:21 AM
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 91 Singapore
cmk
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Posts: 91
Singapore
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First stop, give a call to Alvin and make an appointment and listen/play with the Sauters. That should be your benchmark. After that, your hunting process will be more meaningful, at least you know what to aim for.
At that budget, your best bets would be a good 2nd hand, or a Petrof/Bohemia if you don't mind East European, or a Yamaha/Kawai. These are grouped together for the type of sound they offer.
Next is to get a good teacher, who can nuture your interest.
Sauter 130 Competence with burl inlay (S/N: 112 291)
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Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Piano
#82995
10/03/06 09:01 AM
10/03/06 09:01 AM
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 22
artemov
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Dear all, Following the advice of Wzkit, I went piano shopping all over Singapore these few days. First stop Robert Piano to look at the Kawai K3, which is exactly what I did, just look only. The service is courteous, but a bit cold. The guy didn't really say much. He didn't lift the cover or ask me if I want play the piano (which I can't of course). Then off to Katong to look at the Bohemias and the Wilhem Tells. The service is quite nice, warm and informal. But I didn't quite like the sound of the Bohemia. Seems a bit bloated and fat, like it's a bit muddled or muted and you couldn't quite hear the individual notes clearly. Is this the European sound I wonder? Maybe I enjoy a crispier, brighter sound? Lastly the Perzina at Orchard. The action feels very good, quite light and very smooth. The sound is quite nice too, but seems to differ substantially from set to set. The nice lady told me the sound can be changed by tuning to my liking. Really? The price is quite good too. Maybe will go down to see the Sauter 
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Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Piano
#82996
10/03/06 12:21 PM
10/03/06 12:21 PM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,005 Singapore
Wzkit
1000 Post Club Member
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1000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,005
Singapore
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Definitely go see the Sauter. I think it will be quite a different experience playing a piano of a different league altogether. At least for me, Sauter was initially way out of my budget, but over a period of 7 months of continuously playing that piano, Alvin convinced me to nearly double my original budget!
Sauter 185 Delta with accelerated action and burl walnut fallboard
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Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Piano
#82997
10/03/06 12:46 PM
10/03/06 12:46 PM
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 91 Singapore
cmk
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Full Member
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Posts: 91
Singapore
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Wzkit, who's the guy who refurbishes 2nd hand pianos? Pass the contact to artemov.
Sauter 130 Competence with burl inlay (S/N: 112 291)
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Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Piano
#82998
10/03/06 09:13 PM
10/03/06 09:13 PM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,005 Singapore
Wzkit
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1000 Post Club Member
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Posts: 1,005
Singapore
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Yes. Its Emmanuel and Sons at Little India, opposite Mustafa Centre. I think it is possible to get a great deal on a used piano there, and some of them are still in good shape!
Sauter 185 Delta with accelerated action and burl walnut fallboard
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Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Piano
#83000
10/07/06 01:09 PM
10/07/06 01:09 PM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,005 Singapore
Wzkit
1000 Post Club Member
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1000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,005
Singapore
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Alvin's in Bali at the moment..should be back next week. Try next Thursday.
Emmanuel and Sons has very reasonably priced used pianos. At your budget, you might even be able to get a used Yamaha grand, in reasonable condition.
Btw, I went to Pianomaster at Geylang East, to try out their Wendl & Lung pianos. Pretty good for a Chinese piano, with a very deep bass. If you liked Perzina, you might just like this piano.
Sauter 185 Delta with accelerated action and burl walnut fallboard
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Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Piano
#83002
10/07/06 10:25 PM
10/07/06 10:25 PM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,005 Singapore
Wzkit
1000 Post Club Member
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1000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,005
Singapore
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Yes, in fact, there is a 8 year old used Sauter on consignment at Alvin's place. Amazing piano with an amazing bass. I would grab it myself if I had the room for it.
Sauter 185 Delta with accelerated action and burl walnut fallboard
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Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Piano
#83003
10/19/06 04:48 AM
10/19/06 04:48 AM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 976 Singapore
snoopycar
500 Post Club Member
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500 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 976
Singapore
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Hi guys, I'm from Singapore too!!
Every tried looking around at Christofori at Bedok or Asia Piano or Zadok piano? They are all well prep and tuned. Some shops doesn't tune thier piano on display.. always say .. just arrived. Yeah, Piano Master has very nice sounding Baby Grands.
Hailun dealer in Johor Bahru base in Ulu Tiram Genio Silent system installer Piano Tuner tech +65 90228720 Singapore & JB 012 7702587
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Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Piano
#83005
10/20/06 01:09 PM
10/20/06 01:09 PM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 976 Singapore
snoopycar
500 Post Club Member
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500 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 976
Singapore
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Hi Mendo It's at Balestier shopping or complex.. Shaw something.. I forgot. They have Imported Yamaha, Kawai ... Can freely test there, very good pricing too. Asia piano, very helpful and friendly guys - no pressure sales.  Highly skilled tuner. Have Grand piano there - frequently, 1 or 2pcs.
Hailun dealer in Johor Bahru base in Ulu Tiram Genio Silent system installer Piano Tuner tech +65 90228720 Singapore & JB 012 7702587
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Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Piano
#83006
10/20/06 03:04 PM
10/20/06 03:04 PM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 72 Singapore
piano shopper
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Posts: 72
Singapore
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Hi Artemov, there is a new piano dealer at bukit timah beauty world shopping complex, 2nd floor. selling Krakauer and Sun.Tenor, both chinese pianos if i am correct. never tried the pianos but if my memeory is correct, says in advertisement that Sun.Tenor features Steingraeber action. don't know if that means the "rolling knuckle" action of Steingraeber. visited the shop twice, it was closed. you have to call the dealer through the number on display.
I strongly support the suggestion that you should visit Alvin and try the Sauter pianos. it will be a most enriching trip.
Truthfulness,Benevolence,Forbearance
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Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Piano
#83013
10/22/06 11:43 PM
10/22/06 11:43 PM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 976 Singapore
snoopycar
500 Post Club Member
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500 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 976
Singapore
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For 1st time buyer... 1 factor to consider is resale value. Try ... oops(censored) to stick to Yamaha or Kawai - $3000~$4200 should be able to get a good Japan imports. The actions should be in good condition too. Use a torchligh to inspect for worn-out buckskin hammer butt , if necessary. But I have tested 1 brand called Victor at cristofori bedok. It sounded mellow and responsive. price was ~$2900. It's a good-buy. But that was few months back... Also, some shop offer garantee buy-back scheme. This is useful when you finds you need to upgrade. Wah, I'm discovering more and more Piano shops !!! Some located at warehouse 7th level !! Some spray paint with newspaper masking even while customer browsing around.... hehehe Did anyone tried the Schimmel Grand at Asia piano 2 months back? It can melt  my ears.... so nice, so powerful.. is it still there? out of my pocket's reach. But I regretted i didn't consider a Kawai grand there a year ago .. 
Hailun dealer in Johor Bahru base in Ulu Tiram Genio Silent system installer Piano Tuner tech +65 90228720 Singapore & JB 012 7702587
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Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Piano
#83015
10/23/06 10:35 AM
10/23/06 10:35 AM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 976 Singapore
snoopycar
500 Post Club Member
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500 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 976
Singapore
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Hi Mendo. Yep, was it like medium heavy? i also recalled the inertia was also on the high side - good for strong fingers, perhaps good for expression. Wonder which type of music does pure tone piano suit? Richard Clayderman pop pieces? Mozart K545?
Hmmm.. overtone notes. Is it like Steinway sound? muddy but colourful? Nice. I hear this kind of sound often on the radio- international station, when it plays piano music and others. I can hear the overtone of the after-notes, especially when the player pause for a while and lets the piano sings....
I heard its on consignment. Has the woodgrain finished G2 been set up yet?? oohhh ... Anyway, it's a nice shop where you can talk about piano stuff(technical) casually with the owner and learn some tips too ..
Hailun dealer in Johor Bahru base in Ulu Tiram Genio Silent system installer Piano Tuner tech +65 90228720 Singapore & JB 012 7702587
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Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Piano
#83017
10/24/06 10:16 AM
10/24/06 10:16 AM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 976 Singapore
snoopycar
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500 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 976
Singapore
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Ok... I was incline to think that it was more suitable for classical pieces.  - I need more exposure artemov: How's the piano shopping going? Narrow down to any particular piano yet?
Hailun dealer in Johor Bahru base in Ulu Tiram Genio Silent system installer Piano Tuner tech +65 90228720 Singapore & JB 012 7702587
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Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Piano
#83019
10/26/06 03:25 AM
10/26/06 03:25 AM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 976 Singapore
snoopycar
500 Post Club Member
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500 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 976
Singapore
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Eyeing for a $7~9K 2nd hand good condition grand piano....  Although i'm an adult beginner, i'm dreaming of a GP just for fun. Anyway, i think i can't get a GP for this small sum of money. Right now i'll have to be contentent with my Yamaha U1A. Would you be keen in my U1A?? Happy shopping.......
Hailun dealer in Johor Bahru base in Ulu Tiram Genio Silent system installer Piano Tuner tech +65 90228720 Singapore & JB 012 7702587
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Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Piano
#83020
10/26/06 07:48 AM
10/26/06 07:48 AM
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 65 Singapore
mendo
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way to go  snoopycar!! grand piano sure will lift your interests even more. think you need to stretch your budget a bit more in order to get a good grand. otherwise you'll be better off with the cheaper good upright. your present budget could get you a very good new 'professional' upright which easily gives better sound quality and maybe better action than very old grands. unless you are using your grand as a piece of decor. new stuff means better warranty coverage and better resale value. if i'm more into classical, which you said you are more inclined to, i'll go for a slightly warmer and mellower sound. what i did was to bring along with me a simple music piece on my mp3 when i visited the shops and play the same piece on the pianos and see if they match close to the sound i would like to hear. this piece was recorded when i played a while on a very expensive grand at one of the shop here. this sound was what i like best and its played on many notable piano recordings. of course, if that sound is constantly in your head, then you won't need an mp3. problem for me the last time was for every piano i tried, there is a piece of music which one piano do very well compare to others. of course the goal is to find one that could suit most of your entire repertoire. but after much comparison and deliberation, i still can't get over the sounds of a few pianos. this is only for the sound category with respect to tone, texture, or whatever other people call. then there are other factors like touch, action etc. no one knows what you would like best except yourself and that may take a while.
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