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Re: Intermarriage & Interdating #823547
04/15/05 08:39 PM
04/15/05 08:39 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 5,934
Tom--K Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by Jack Frost:
Quote
Originally posted by apple*:
[b] they are more likely to have compatible goats.
I think everyone should have goats...compatible or no. Great cheese.

jf [/b]
We have goats--Nubians (three females.) The wife wants to have "Diablo" stop by from the neighbor's farm so we could have a couple more.

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Re: Intermarriage & Interdating #823548
04/15/05 08:39 PM
04/15/05 08:39 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 9,868
pianojerome Offline OP
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pianojerome  Offline OP
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Objectively? No.

My (objective) opinion. wink


Sam
Re: Intermarriage & Interdating #823549
04/15/05 08:43 PM
04/15/05 08:43 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 9,868
pianojerome Offline OP
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Quote
Originally posted by Matt G.:
Quote
Originally posted by pianojerome:
[b]
Quote
Originally posted by Matt G.:
[b] What is your take on what I stated before about raising children in a mixed-religion household?
Imagine the confusion among the children!

"Jesus was the messiah."
"Jesus was not the messiah."

"Celebrate the Jewish holidays."
"Don't celebrate the Jewish holidays."

"Jesus died for our sins."
"Jesus died because he was causing riots."

"There is original sin."
"There is not original sin."

"Follow the Jewish dietary laws."
"Would you pass the ham?"

... [/b]
If this is your response, then you certainly did not read what I posted. Try again. [/b]
If the children are raised with both religions, than I would have to ask you again how they should repsond to the above pairs of questions.

If the children are raised with one religion, that is good. That is how it should be. Although, the spouse who is not originally of that faith may have a lot of catching up, culturally, in order to teach the children. There's a lot more to religion than the actual religion itself. The whole culture is very important as well.


Sam
Re: Intermarriage & Interdating #823550
04/15/05 08:44 PM
04/15/05 08:44 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,066
Renauda Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by JBryan:
I don't think I even need to respond to this one.
You and me both.

But I 'd sure be ticked if my daughter came home with the village idiot regardless of his race, colour or creed.


"The older the fiddle, the sweeter the music"~ Augustus McCrae
Re: Intermarriage & Interdating #823551
04/15/05 08:45 PM
04/15/05 08:45 PM
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Renauda Offline
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DBL post


"The older the fiddle, the sweeter the music"~ Augustus McCrae
Re: Intermarriage & Interdating #823552
04/15/05 08:49 PM
04/15/05 08:49 PM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 2,948
New York
Jeffrey Offline
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Renauda: "my daughter came home with the village idiot"

My wife did just fine, I'll have you note, and she loves me nevertheless. Don't be so hard on the village idiots. We mean well.

Re: Intermarriage & Interdating #823553
04/15/05 08:50 PM
04/15/05 08:50 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 4,454
Maine
Jack Frost Offline
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As my daughter understands it...

Mommy believes Jesus was the Lord and Daddy believes Jesus was a great teacher....

She is free to make up her own mind. When she does, neither Mommy nor daddy will be heartbroken.

jf


"Make the pie higher." GWB
Re: Intermarriage & Interdating #823554
04/15/05 08:53 PM
04/15/05 08:53 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 9,868
pianojerome Offline OP
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Jack,

Where's the culture? Religion is not just "Jesus was the Lord" or "Jesus was just a teacher..."

Does she celebrate the holidays? Does she attend a religious school to study any religion? Does she hunt Easter eggs? I don't know all about Christian culture - but does she get any of it?


Sam
Re: Intermarriage & Interdating #823555
04/15/05 08:57 PM
04/15/05 08:57 PM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 2,948
New York
Jeffrey Offline
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New York
piano - Why is it important that the child get only one culture? Why not give her exposure to several and let her decide??

Re: Intermarriage & Interdating #823556
04/15/05 08:57 PM
04/15/05 08:57 PM
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Renauda Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by Jeffrey:
Renauda: "my daughter came home with the village idiot"

My wife did just fine, I'll have you note, and she loves me nevertheless. Don't be so hard on the village idiots. We mean well.
You didn't even cross my mind when I wrote that. I've thought of you many different ways Jeffery, but never as the village idiot. Cross my heart.


"The older the fiddle, the sweeter the music"~ Augustus McCrae
Re: Intermarriage & Interdating #823557
04/15/05 09:00 PM
04/15/05 09:00 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 4,454
Maine
Jack Frost Offline
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Maine
Quote
Originally posted by pianojerome:
Jack,

Where's the culture? Religion is not just "Jesus was the Lord" or "Jesus was just a teacher..."

Does she celebrate the holidays? Does she attend a religious school to study any religion? Does she hunt Easter eggs? I don't know all about Christian culture - but does she get any of it?
Yes to all of the above.

jf


"Make the pie higher." GWB
Re: Intermarriage & Interdating #823558
04/15/05 09:01 PM
04/15/05 09:01 PM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 2,948
New York
Jeffrey Offline
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Renauda - As to the mutuality of our understanding of our compatibility on the topics we are jointly discussing, agreed! thumb

Re: Intermarriage & Interdating #823559
04/15/05 09:01 PM
04/15/05 09:01 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 9,868
pianojerome Offline OP
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Quote
Originally posted by Jeffrey:
piano - Why is it important that the child get only one culture? Why not give her exposure to several and let her decide??
That's impossible.

I'm thinking back on the culture that I grew up in for the past two decades... there's no way I could have fit in another, equally strong...

But I am exposed to other cultures! I'm exposed to the American culture in which I live. I've gone to school all my life with Christians, Muslims, Hindus, Atheists, Europeans, Asians, South Americans, Americans, people with all different kinds of cultures. I have been exposed to many different kinds of cultures.

But one is certainly dominant - that is the culture in which I have predominantly been raised, and there is not substitute for that. I cannot imagine my childhood without Jewish culture. I cannot even imagine my childhood with half of my Jewish culture. I certainly cannot imagine my childhood with only half of what I have gotten of Jewish culture and then, on top of that, only half of the contrasting Christian culture. No way.

I would never wish for my children anything less than what I experienced as a child, and my children would never experience anything close to what I have experienced if they were being raised by a Jewish father and a Christian mother, with both religions being preached, and both cultures being "lived".


Sam
Re: Intermarriage & Interdating #823560
04/15/05 09:09 PM
04/15/05 09:09 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,789
Plainfield, IL
Matt G. Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by pianojerome:
If the children are raised with both religions, than I would have to ask you again how they should repsond to the above pairs of questions.

If the children are raised with one religion, that is good. That is how it should be. Although, the spouse who is not originally of that faith may have a lot of catching up, culturally, in order to teach the children. There's a lot more to religion than the actual religion itself. The whole culture is very important as well.
I have known mixed Jewish/Christian families with children where the fusion of both cultures was achieved rather seamlessly. There are, indeed, a lot of cultural trappings that are attached to Jewishness (not necessarily Judaism itself, mind you) that have few, if any, correlations to the cultures of most Christians of European origin. The children were all exposed to both the cultural and religious experiences of both parents, and the families participated in the cultural life of both parents' families.

In one family, the children were raised specifically with the intent of making them fully aware of both cultures and religions. Judaic religious study, observances and rituals were expected of all of the children. Celebrating the Jewish holidays was one of their most important family rituals. But, they also spent a great deal of time with their family in celebrating Christian holidays, and those kids spent far more time in Sunday school than I ever did. They all also received Christian baptism, and partook in the sacraments.

Fast forward thirty years..... From this latter family I described, the children (2 boys, 2 girls) took individual paths that few would have predicted. One son married a Jewish woman, and are raising their Jewish children. The other son married a woman with no particular religious affiliation other than observing the commercial version of Christian holidays. They have one child who is being raised, apparently, without any attachment to any culture or religion. The first daughter married a nice Polish Catholic man, were married in the Catholic Church, and will likely produce nice Catholic babies once they get around to it. The second daughter is unmarried and has bounced around from New Age to Buddhism to heaven-only-knows-what.

My point in all this rambling is that young children don't see anything inherently contradictory about different cultural or religious practices and beliefs. This family illustrates, to me at least, that given a full opportunity to embrace either culture or religion, the choices were as unique as the children themselves.

As for needing both parents to teach a culture and/or religion to a child, I must question what you think happens in a family where one parent is no longer there?


Sacred cows make the best hamburger. - Clemens
Re: Intermarriage & Interdating #823561
04/15/05 09:14 PM
04/15/05 09:14 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 7,051
K
kenny Offline
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K

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If you're in love, that's it.

Re: Intermarriage & Interdating #823562
04/15/05 09:15 PM
04/15/05 09:15 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 9,868
pianojerome Offline OP
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Thank you, Matt. I appreciate your post.

In this family, the children grew up with both religions, both cultures, and grew up to follow their own paths and make their own decisions, which is good.

Re: your last question. My original point is not that two parents are needed to teach culture and/or religion to a child, although two certainly help. My point is rather that when two parents are present, it certainly is a good idea for them to be working together.

When one parent is no longer there - life goes on. But certainly one parent can raise his/her children, though it will understandably be very tough for the entire family, yes?


Sam
Re: Intermarriage & Interdating #823563
04/15/05 09:17 PM
04/15/05 09:17 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 9,868
pianojerome Offline OP
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Quote
Originally posted by kenny:
If you love him, all that other stuff doesn't matter.
If you love him, you probably aren't going to be raising children. (Unless you adopt).

Matt gave an example - and I know some other families personally - where two parents of different faiths can raise their children in a religious home.

But nobody said that would be easy - I imagine it would take a lot of really hard work to make such a relationship work.

Is the relationship worth all of the hard work? Probably.

But, this leads to another question that I have: is there only one true love for a person in the whole world? If one does not marry the person he/she falls in love with, is there still hope?


Sam
Re: Intermarriage & Interdating #823564
04/15/05 09:22 PM
04/15/05 09:22 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 9,868
pianojerome Offline OP
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I'm going to bed now (finally! - 12:22). Please continue to post. I'm very interested to read what people have to write.


Sam
Re: Intermarriage & Interdating #823565
04/15/05 09:23 PM
04/15/05 09:23 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,066
Renauda Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by Jeffrey:
Renauda - As to the mutuality of our understanding of our compatibility on the topics we are jointly discussing, agreed! thumb
Pour y'rself another wee dram, Laddie. thumb


"The older the fiddle, the sweeter the music"~ Augustus McCrae
Re: Intermarriage & Interdating #823566
04/15/05 09:24 PM
04/15/05 09:24 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 364
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I have absolutely no problem with people being with whomever they choose. I do think, however, that religion creates a lot more boundries than race. Not being with someone simply because their skin is a different colour is ludicrous to me, but I can see where people with strong religious beliefs would not be able to find happiness with someone who had strong beliefs of a totally different type. Impossible? Absolutely not, but it does present many challenges when you're talking about vast differences in ideology. I think that people who are strongly religious, even in two different religious systems, have a better shot than someone who is religious being with someone who isn't. At least they both have their belief in a higher power in common.

I'm a pretty rabid atheist. My (soon-to-be) ex-husband is a pretty weak agnostic. We had some pretty heated moments over it. I can't imgine being in a relationship with someone who was very religious simply because our viewpoints about so many important issues would be so far apart.

That said, if people can make it work, they should be with whoever makes them happy.


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