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Hi Mikhailoh
The Bernstein Name is owned by the company that I work for and were made by Samic, and identical to the Alex Stienbach.But because of politics and pricing the boss decided to put his name on a different brand (HAILUN). After visiting several other chinese factories, settled on Hailun as best for quality and price.
As far as I know, he is the only importer of Hailun in Australia. (Bernstein or otherwise) but then I don't go checking all the other dealers to see who's got what, its not what I do.
I believe Samic hung on to the Bernstein name, and are sold in other parts of the world, but not here.
Hope this answers the question
Regards Dave

I reiterate, and please read recent posts RE: Ranking, The Piano Book, Etc. We should stop referring the Fine book to folks coming to the site for unbiased, opinions. The source has "sold out" and shown to be tainted.

I think that's probably good marketing on Wendl & Lung's behalf (they're an Austrian firm based in Vienna, with a long history in the piano business, hmm). I'm not sure if the Vienna concert hall would have spontaneously chosen a W&L piano otherwise...

Not true in our case. We order and stock all of ours *with* Renners.

Norbert

Frank,

I am disappointed at your comments. They seem kind o’ silly to me.

You stated that when you

I don’t believe that was the dealers actual quote but regardless, I don’t think that we “need” to lower our costs. Of course we are always trying to offer the best product we can and be the best value possible. I guess Heintzman does not share this philosophy?

Well of course we charge more for pianos with Renner hammers than for those ordered without. We don’t have big enough margins to cover such extra expenses. One can only assume from your statement that Heintzman throws in Renner hammers for free. Profits must be good eh?


There is no deception here Frank and I am disappointed that you would infer otherwise. Our website plainly states that the vertical pianos are available with Renner or Japanese made hammers. I see that your website also states that “Renner hammers are available" for your vertical pianos.

Too bad we both have the time to be reading the piano forums...

All ye who are criticizing Hailun/Steigerman Premium because of Larry's rating didn't actually read the book, did you? NOT that I'm standing up for him, as I'm appalled that he left Steinway in tier 1, despite its long track record of lousy workmanship. If a Chinese piano arrived needing as much work as a typical Slug---uh, Steinway--would they be anywhere above tier 4Z?

Fine's ratings are far from gospel. They are his opinion, some based on PRESSURE from one big name anyway, and others based on--what? No track record yet? He should have withheld those ratings altogether. You don't stick a piano in the bottom group just because you don't know anything about it yet. He felt forced to err "on the low side," for the Chinese, but didn't mind erring on the high side for Steinway, did he, even knowing their track record.

As per usual when someone comes up against the bully, they all too often succumb to pressure.

It would be interesting to know how many of those who so harshly ridicule the Hailun/Steig P's have ever even tried them.

Te so-called recession must be rearing its ugly head for some out there....

Norbert

I was surprised to read how far out of his assigned customer territory Frank ventured to shop for his Steigerman.

I guess that doesn't say much for you Norbert...that Frank would cross the border just to avoid buying his new Steig from you.

It's seems only fair that Dino should go to a SoCal Heintzmann retailer to check out the inventory. If he can't find one, probably Frank could dig one out for him.

Frank is most welcome to come and do his shopping right here at home!

All genuine Steigerman, genuine Renner, genuine everything!

[and one heck of a deal for an old friend...]

Norbert

I agree with Kenny. Fine's "Piano Book" is full of very biased opinions that are his own, and he is entitled, but they are opinions none the less. I think we have all sold pianos that his book both helps and hurts. In many ways Fine is a like a film critic, except he has a kind of monopoly on the whole industry. Imagine if Rodger Ebert were the only film critic and his opinion alone was the only one that perspective film goers were told to read. ( At least Ebert sees all of the films himself before he writes his opinions about them. Where as fine does not see every piano company's latest offerings that he writes about.)The book is good as a general overview only, but In my opinion his book confuses people more than it helps, and eventually everyone spins his book the way they want anyway.

Dino,
I owe you an opology.
It was tactless and unprofessional for me to quote a dealer on the forum.

I should also thank you for pointing out a website error. I will notify our webmaster to make changes. We DO NOT offer Renner Hammers as an option.Our models are standard with components model by model and dealers cannot order for instance a 132 with Japanese Hammers instead of Renner. This is for tone and performance consistancy to enable consumers to shop and expect the same features and performance no matter which retailer they purchase from.Price has nothing to do with it.

Again, I apologize and will be more diligent in the future.

Wishing you much success.

Hi, I am new to this forum. I am looking to buy a piano and I have narrowed down to a Hailun 125 or Wendl and Lung 122. Both pianos here (Singapore) cost about the same. I like the overall tone of the W&L but the Hailun seems to have more presence. Appreciate if someone could provide me with some advise.

By the way, could anyone advise me how "Lung" is pronounced in "Wendl & Lung". I get two different pronunciation from two persons from the same dealership. One told me it was pronounced as "Lunk" while the other said it was "Loong".

Both pianos are made in the same factory, but it *may* be that the Wendl & Lung has some additional input from one or more European designers. However this isn't clear at all. You should ask the sellers specifically what the differences are as there may be some minor differences in materials, design, etc.

Lung in W&L is an Austrian name, therefore pronounced more like 'Loong' than 'Lunk'', but with the oo as a short sound, not long. I suspect the final G should be quite hard, so maybe 'Loonk'. And Wendl should probably be pronounced 'Vendel'

Might be a tough choice between those two. Generally, taller is better, in which case the Hailun would win, but you should go with your heart on this one. Spend a lot of time on each, playing different pieces. Eventually one might start to emerge as a front runner. And then let us know what you decide, and post pictures AND recordings, okay?

Reading from Chinese web articles I can report here that Hailun, while having achieved amazing progress in a very short time frame, started manufacturing piano only five years ago. Before that Hailun was a factory supplying parts, albeit key components, for other piano makers.

So it's hard to say about its endurance. However the initial quality should be very good due to its brand new facilities with equipments imported from Japan and Europe.

JohnEB,

As you say, it's not clear. It's hard to imagine that the Wendl's in Singapore have gone from China to Vienna, been checked out, and then sent back to Asia. Is there anything in the W&L European website that mentions export to Asia?

The dealer here said W&L pianos are shipped direct from the Hailun factory and not from China to Vienna and back to Asia.

Meanwhile, I have also tried the Hailun 122 (or is it the 121? sorry can't remember exactly). Was told that it and the W&L 122 are exactly the same. Just wondering how true can this be as it seems unlikely W&L will allow Hailun to produce an exact replica and sell at a lower price, which will undercut them.

In my personal opinion, it is unconceivable that W&L would not want to differentiate their pianos from Hailun's although they are made from the same factory.

By the way, when my wife and I tested the two pianos, their sound are definitely different. Although the dealer explained that the pianos (soundboard)are made from natural wood and no two pieces of wood are the same (accounting for the difference in sound), we could detect a certain characteristic in each of them.

Perhaps, someone could shed some light on this.

Over a year ago, Wzkit filed this report from Singapore on the 'Hailun Anyone' thread. http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/1/17210.html#000000

I have no facts to back me up on this, but I think it's possible that Wendl&Lung in Europe does not have a stake in the Hailun pianos that are branded W&L in Asia. It's possible that use of the name in Asia is simply part of the marketing agreement between Hailun the maker and its European client W&L.

Some of the marketing practices of the Chinese makers are hard (for Westerners) to understand, but you can pretty much assume that when the bargain was struck Hailun brought quality manufacture at a reasonable price to the table and W&L brought technical and design expertise along with an entry to the European market.

My guess is that if Hailun is supplying pianos with identical components under both names in Asia, they have simply voiced them differently at the factory, or the dealer has done so himself. I think that's a more likely reason for the two you sampled sounding different than the dealer's comment about no two soundboards being identical.

I visited the factory 18 months ago and the pianos are made side by side. They were then basically the same. IMO I think they are both funny sounding names in English, so take you pick, enee meanie minie moe.

turandot,

the only link between W&L and sales in Asia I could find is W&L's subsidary (sales office) in Korea:
http://www.wendl-lung.co.kr/

They say it has been set up in 2005 in Seoul by their partner Sung-Hwan Park.

keeferae,

Speeking in general terms Hailun and W&L do not compete eachother. The main market for W&L is Europe with it's 300+ dealers. In North America there are very few W&L dealers (I only know of one in Chicago and one in Québec, Canada).
Singapore must then be one of those exceptions; why they market both brand names is a mistery to me. But branding by Chinese companies is an issue that could be dealt with in a separate thread.

The biggest mystery in that respect for me still remains the (fierce?) competition between Hailun and Steigerman Premium in North America - why Hailun allowed (is still allowing) this to happen. Sometimes this is part of a marketing strategy though; allowing two brands to compete may sometimes yield as a sum more than if merely one brand would be on the market scene.

I also think turandot's guess that all might be down to some differnces in voicing at the Hailun factory is very plausible; differences in QC, voicing and perhaps some parts.

E.g. for parts I know that since about a year the W&L grands have cold pressed hammers which are made at the Hailun factory by an old Dolgen press which W&L installed overthere. I read nowhere Hailun would be using these hammers in their grands.

As turandot said W&L indeed brought design and technical expertise along.

The 115 Transparent upright and now the newly launched 110 Stereo upright are definitivaly Peter Veletzky designs.

schwammerl.